Ya I still can't decide if the indestructible and artifact part on darksteel citadel is better or worse than uncounterability from cavern.
Printable View
Ya I still can't decide if the indestructible and artifact part on darksteel citadel is better or worse than uncounterability from cavern.
Cool, didn't know it was back out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Souleater734
I think Cavern of Souls is better for us then Darksteel Citadel. Making sure either a bomb or a forgemaster/worker sticks around is more important then a unwastable forgemaster fodder land. To be able to speed up Forgemaster tricks it is nice, but you would need it as a 4-off. Beside with the 12-post (10-post now i guess) you should have more consistency against Wasteland (as was told to me a few pages back).Quote:
Originally Posted by Souleater734
Another suggestion could be Buried Ruins and with a single Crucible of Worlds perhaps to compliment also Wasteland/City of Traitors.
There is always slash panther, which while technically not 4 cmc might as well be, and with the 4 batterskull should be fairly easy to mitigate the lifeloss. Also on Karn, it is really impressive in a coulpe situations: 1. You have metalworker and staff going and you might need to exile a couple permanents to be able to force through Blightsteel and 2. Against Control/Controlling decks that don't attack your mana. Decks like UWx Stoneblade or miracles, even decks like shardless bug and deathblade since they have a harder time wastelanding aggressively.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zirath
I'll try cavern, though I've never really had a problem with my cards getting countered though, haven't considered buried ruin yet so I might try it soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Lucky :) my meta is full of delver so i can confirm cavern does work!Quote:
Originally Posted by Souleater734
Well to rephrase my statement I don't really have problems with my creatures getting countered, for the most part. I don't like it when cards like trinisphere and chalice get countered but generally, as long as I'm not out of gas, creatures getting countered is fine, unless you're really far behind. I see the merits for cavern, though I don't know how great of an effect it will be, I will test it, but I'm still considering leaving the mana base alone with all 12 locus.Quote:
Originally Posted by nerv2004
How is the test for Tangle Wires over Trinispheres in a non-Welder build going?
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=69464 Pretty stock 12 post list, 16th at Portland, sadly I couldn't make it out there today but it's always nice to see people doing well with the deck. The 2 lightning greaves in the sideboard is interesting and has a lot of merit, since the match ups where you don't want Karn, greaves is typically pretty solid. I don't know of the 2/1 Split of Staff of Nin over Domination is correct, I'm currently running 1/2, but used to run I believe that exact 60 for a while, I have no idea which split is better as they both have their merits. I'm interested in the Emrakul in the sideboard and the eye of ugin, I imagine its for miracles or other control decks, I going to test it and see how it works in those match ups. Also Ambushing a Sneak and show player with your own emrakul seems pretty sweet.
Eye of Ugin also makes All is Dust cheaper and it fetches your Artifact creatures aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Souleater734
In theory it looks nice, but i wonder how often did he hardcast Emrakul where he wanted to.
Emrakul in the sideboard could also be useful against Painter/Grindstone! :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Souleater734
The Eldrazi I would (and have) play(ed) in MUD-Post would be Kozilek, Butcher of Truth because he can be reasonably cast on 8-10 mana and helps solve the top decking problem that MUD decks find themselves. Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is useful in match ups that don't agressively attack mana bases and play long games, but while I could see either one working, Kozilek seems to me would be the most flexible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwave
So played against dack fayden today, which was a disaster to say the least, hopefully that card doesn't pick up in popularity.
So if you check the join date I'm obviously very new to this forum (Disclaimer: This will be pretty long winded). I recently got back into magic after a couple years away, though when i originally played it was very casually back in Alara block. I came back to magic around the release of Theros and, just like I've done with various video games I have tried to become the best player I could as fast as possible by watching videos on youtube and such and eventually stumbled across the Starcitygames open series. I was playing standard reasonably competitively at that point and then found myself watching the coverage which then led to watching legacy, which was very interesting until I stumbled upon the price tag for the UB Tezzeret deck I was interested in at the time (I believe close to 2000 dollars) so I decided against legacy until I found a video from gatheringmagic.com's inside the deck series here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGmy...4EA71&index=16
The deck looked appealing and I was able to buy it in January for about $900, which is pretty reasonable all things considered. Because of my location (Central Oregon) I very rarely get to play legacy in tournaments, though I have had reasonable success in those that I have attended with the deck, but most of my experience comes from testing and cockatrice, sadly I couldn't make it out to the Legacy Open in Portland last weekend. Anyway enough of introductions, onto my decklist.
24 Lands
4 Cloudpost
4 Vesuva
4 Glimmerpost
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of traitors
4 Wasteland
Creatures 19
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Sundering Titan
1 Blightsteel Colossus
Noncreatures 17
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Grim Monolith
2 Staff of Nin
1 Staff of Domination
2 Karn Liberated
SB:
1 Batterskull
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Spine of Ish Sah
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Platinum Emperion
2 Spellskite
2 All is Dust
I believe the entire 75 is the same as the deck from the video (besides swapping Platinum Angel for Emperion), which I believe is pretty stock, but so far I haven't had any reason to change anything. I've been pretty happy with Karn in a lot of match ups, I know there has been discussion in the last couple pages that Karn is not worth it. It is a major threat and I've been in a lot of positions when I have an active metalworker or a couple Cloudposts when I get Vendilion Cliqued in my draw step when I have both Karn and Sundering Titan in hand and they have no counterspells. In this situation both options are wrong, leaving Sundering titan in hand might be "more" wrong but resolving a Karn is pretty sweet as well. I've also been very happy with the Staff of Nin, against decks like D&T it kills almost everything and against decks like shardless bug and esper blade it draws cards, which is awesome in those match ups, and can pressure planeswalkers and shoot down pesky creatures like vendilion clique and baleful strix. Lodestone Golem has also been insane, the opponent can almost never kill it (with chalice set to 1 in play) and if they do that means there is one less removal spell for metalworker, forgemaster, or wurmcoil engine. It is also great at preventing a crippling jace or liliana from getting cast which could provide enough tempo to swing the match in their favor. I like Trinisphere a lot as a pseudo-defense grid, since most decks besides miracles have to continue to play into the 3sphere and don't have the mana to cast their free spells. Any response is great as I'm still looking to improve with this deck, I enjoy it a lot despite the consistency issues it has and will continue to play it regardless of how well positioned or good it is.
I can imagine some welder tricks with one or two of these. I do think that MUD lists are already pretty tight and would rather run Wurmcoil Engine over this one. But having two of them with a Goblin Welder and a Staff of Domination could make quick work.
To be, or not to be:
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...1897119562.png
Needs to be concidered but i think steel hellkite is better positoned behind wirmcoil engine than this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
If Swords to Plowshares wasn't a thing, I'd say this is one of the best things to come our way. Even with Swords though, it's good, so I guess testing will show.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
I' a bit skeptical about the uses of the card I have to admit, at least in the now stock lists. No Welder, only way to trigger it ourselves is sacrificing it to Forgemaster. Against decks with creatures the lifelink of Wurmcoil should be more relevant than partial unblockability. The holy quintet of removal nowadays is StP, Terminus, Bolt, Decay and Lili. Against two of those all of our big guys are immune. Against the white cards the ability is irrelevant, so the only one that actually makes use of the trigger is Lili, which sees the least amount of play of the removal spells. Also what would you cut from the list?
Powerlevel is of course influenced by the rest of the 60-cards played. It gains additional value in a red list with Welder (duh) and its creature type can also be relevant for lists with Cavern of Souls as the number of Constructs grows and grows. Also for pure stompy lists without Forgemaster the 6/6 for 6 is nice.
Today i played MUD at a lgs, no big results due to some misplays and had to mull a lot of times. This was the first time i played with the 12-post manabase and i am sold. I feel that sometimes it has a slower start due to the comes into play tapped part, but midgame i was flooding mana. I was able to hardcast the big bombs and even hardcast a colossus. If only i would have Emrakul in there...
Anyway the weakest card was now Grim Monolith. I never used it and was just sitting in my hand or on he board doing nothing. So i was thinking of trying to switch it to something else at CMC 2/3, but i don't know what. Was thinking about some lock pieces (4th Trinisphere and Crucible of Worlds).
How is your expierence with Grim Monolith's in the list and any ideas about swapping them?
@Bobmans: Grim Monolith provides us with nice acceleration. Turn 1 Metalworker, Trinisphere, or even Lodestone Golem, or turn 2 Wurmcoil Engine can change a lot of games quick. It can also help when we are behind but still trying to ramp up our 12post engine. Lock pieces with 2cc, the only one that comes to mind for me are Sphere of Resistance, Thorn of Amethyst, and Phyrexian Revoker. Other 2cc slots are Spellskite, Ratchet Bomb and Powder Keg.
Monolith is typically Forgemaster fodder, it's also 3 free mana if you have an active metalworker. It allows for t1 trinisphere or metalworker, though I'm usually wary of t1 3sphere, atleast on the draw if I think they have wasteland or are an unknown opponent. Sometimes Monolith gets you to the critical mana to cast a game winning/saving wurmcoil and sometimes helps cast a karn or all is dust through lodestone. The card definitely isn't impressive but, in my opinion it's a pretty critical roleplayer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Grim Monolith is a bit of a necessary evil but I'd never play a MUD deck without four. Since we can't use Vintage mana acceleration like Mishra's Workshop, Sol Ring, or Mana Vault, Grim Monolith is the best thing to help us accelerate into our threats. Apart from T1 Trinisphere/Metalworker, T1 Grim Monolith+pass can also facilitate T2 Wurmcoil Engine/Steel Hellkite or even Karn Liberated (with two sol lands). It's still an incredibly powerful card even if it's a terrible lategame topdeck.