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I'm not sure where the cuts should come from. I'm just not sure that having only 4 spot removal is going to be enough. The format is about to speed up which means stoneblade has to be leaner more efficient if it's going to keep up. Expect delver, dnt, elves, and storm to hit the ground running.Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1987
Quote:
Originally Posted by meat
If the meta becomes rife with BUG style decks, Esperblade with Souls/Tasigur will probably be the best positioned Stoneblade deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by L10
I think Blood Moon in UWr is a bit overrated against these decks. Most non-Delver BUG decks play some number of basics, not to mention Deathrite Shamans (and additionally Hierarchs in the Duke list), and I find BUG players respect the possibility of Blood Moon. The facts that you may have to hamper your own mana development to cast Moon and also can't cast it before turn 3 make it less effective. I still always play it in my UWr sideboard, but don't expect it to be great vs BUG.
I agree with this. You don't want too much spot removal MD because its dead in so many matchups G1 (I usually play like 4 Plow and 1 Vindicate main in Esperblade), and post board I'm more interested in sweepers or different types of spot removal such as Go for the Throat or Diabolic Edict rather than a card like Push.Quote:
Originally Posted by L10
Fatal Push probably fits better into the deathblade builds were black mana is more important than white. Blade control is more of UWx deck I'd say UW builds are just as capable as UWr/UWb.
I personally am very fond of Tasigur. Really think the Japanese are onto something there.
I agree, the card is nuts even if Karakas is in the format. The big issue that blade decks have had in the past is the lack of CA engines outside of value creatures and JTMS so it's very nice to basically have a 1 mana value creature. I don't really like TNN in the UWb versions. While good with equipment I think he just plays poorly with how the deck is trying to operate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchyman
I always thought about trying Tasigur, but obviously the reason people don't is because of Karakas. Do you think he's worth being in the deck even if Karakas is widely played? I just think it's a huge feel bad moment when you delve your whole graveyard away to just have it bounced or not even be able to play it.
It's a judgment call based on your own risk/reward analysis. It's worth it if the Tasigur is good vs. the rest of the field. The main contention against Tasigur is not only its Legendary type, but that it matches up poorly vs. Gurmag Angler, Reality Smasher, and Tombstalker. Against Eldrazi, sometimes you don't have the breathing room to abuse the card advantage that Tasigur creates. Against Gurmag Angler and Tombstalker decks, there is slightly more breathing room because you can prioritize your removal spells on them. So if there is a downturn on Eldrazi, Tasigur is pretty well positioned, especially against grindy 4c control decks. Typically, if I see my opponent jam basic Plains, Tasigur is the first card that gets tucked away by Brainstorm, so it's fine. You just SB him out on G2/G3.
This doesn't make any sense, none of the creatures in our deck line up well against any of those cards unless you're playing TNN in which case you can only really stall the Angler.Quote:
Originally Posted by L10
@MrFrowny_
Yeah, I think the big thing just comes down to having a plan postboard to deal with D&T and other decks that are running multiple Karakas. One of the best things about this deck is how customizable it is, if you don't like Tasigur cards like TNN/Mentor will work well too but they might require a few changes.
I have been on Gurmag Angler for a while now over Tasigur because of the number of DnT and Eldrazi in my meta, and only converted back to Tasigur on Monday.
Given a list like this:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=21918&iddeck=168586
how will you guys board against aluren and food chain?
I will be bringing in meddling mage, disenchants, needle, extraction against aluren but i am not sure what to board out.
I haven't gotten a chance to play out these matchups in our brave new world but at first glance I think I would board a little like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1987
-4 Swords to Plowshares
-1 Council's Judgement (Maybe?)
-2 Baleful Strix
+2 Disenchant
+1 Ethersworn Canonist
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Supreme Verdict (Maybe?)
+1 Duress (I think this is more likely against Aluren than Food Chain as you have 2 discard spells that can't really get rid of Aluren).
I don't like swords in the matchup, minus DRS none of their creatures are really that great and against Food Chain swords does actual nothing. Judgement just seems really slow especially since the only cards that you are really going to hit with it are the same ones that disenchant hits. It's a little unfortunate but I think you're kind of forced to keep in Force against these styles of decks as their Combo Pieces are way too backbreaking to let resolve. Imo the best approach is to go down the TNN Aggro Plan.
Edit:
Thinking about it I realized that i'm a moron and forgot about Leovold. I'd change my plan to -2 Swords to Plowshares, -1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor so atleast you have a few more outs to that card.
Also if you're not playing Prelate in your blade deck you are doing something wrong. That card is very very good.
Spell Queller seems a lot better, tbh. Prelate is symmetrical and WW.Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
WW isn't that hard to get with this deck... I don't know how Spell Queller seems better, prelate can down on 2 stopping both loam and punishing fire, 4 or 2 in the storm matchup stopping their bounce or kill spells and 4 or 3 in the Aluren/Food Chain matchups to stop their combo pieces.Quote:
Originally Posted by btm10
Prelate may be symmetric but he's not really, if you have him in your hand you always empty your hand of whatever he's coming down on before hand.
I would only run Prelate in my sideboard as a 1 of against combo decks, those are the only decks I would reasonably bring Prelate in.Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
I could see 1 Prelate and 1 Kambal.
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Maybe? Kambal seems better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
Or you can just Spell Queller Punishing Fire. I'm not sure of your exact list, but I'm playing 15 1 CMC spells plus 3 Snapcaster Mages. Are you playing it to name 2 against Decay decks, which turns off Counterspell and hardcasting Jitte? I'm very skeptical of that approach. BUG decks are better midrange decks and D&T is the better Stoneforge Mystic deck. If Blade decks are going to exist, they can't be so creature-light that the equipment often does nothing, but the creatures need to fit with what the deck is doing. Spell Queller does that. Sanctum Prelate doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
I agree 100% with Prelate. It does a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
This board really makes me weep for legacy honestly.Quote:
Originally Posted by btm10
My point is that Spell Queller doesn't stop multiple punishing fires/life from the loams and can easily be double fired and nothing is accomplished. Queller may be better for fair matchups since he's both evasive and negates a removal spell but we already have tools for fair matchups without playing janky creatures. Prelate isn't for fair matchups, he's entirely for unfair matchups. The only fair matchup where I can see bringing him in for is maybe Shardless and then you're snap putting him on 0 each time.
This guy gets it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFrowny_
Kambal seems like a pretty decent idea as well.
Aside from unfair decks, Prelate has been ace vs. Aggro Loam @2 and UR Prowess @1. Obviously, against fair decks, it requires a bit more setup before committing, but Prelate is worth bringing against both decks.
So you're eschewing 1-mana interaction to run a 3-drop... against combo and Lands/Loam? If you're concerned specifically about Loam and Punishing Fire, graveyard hate is the correct approach, not playing symmetrical lock pieces that can be beaten with Barbarian Ring or Cabal Pit. And if they're spending five mana and two spells to get back one of their engines doesn't that play into your gameplan of making opponents waste their turns by countering their spells and make your other interaction like Wasteland better?Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
At least you can continue to use 1-mana spells in the Lands/Loam matchup. If you bring it in against any combo deck, it's either 3 mana Meddling Mage that doesn't pitch to Force or it's Chalice on 1, which turns off all of your cantrips and your best interactive spells. The card simply doesn't work in a blue control deck.
So I'm not the biggest fan of Prelate in Stoneblade but I thing you're being a little too harsh. I personally prefer Meddling Mage in my sideboard because he pitches to force and is a 2-drop instead of a 3 drop. But a downside to Meddling mage is that it's super linear with what you want to shut off. You can only name 1 card instead of an entire cmc. I couldn't count the amount of times against Sneak and Show where I play Meddling Mage and name sneak attack/show and tell, and then they slam the one I didn't name. The same thing happens against storm; Past in Flames, Ad Nauseum, Tendrils, etc. I know the same thing can happen with Prelate but I feel you have less room for error.Quote:
Originally Posted by btm10
The biggest upside to Prelate and why I think he's still a good option is because he turns off lots of decks with just naming their foundation cmc. For instance;
Storm: Name 4; turns off tendrils, PiF, Empty the Warrens, also kills sideboard cards for them (massacre)
Sneak and Show: 3 or 4; sneak attack, show and tell, Jace. kills a few sideboard cards (blood moon, kozileks return)
Elves: 4; they can't natural order and then you till their board
Lands: 2; turns off loam engine, pfire engine
Delver: 1; they can barely do anything after that
I know that there's pros and cons to both Meddling Mage and Sanctum Prelate; the hard part is just choosing the right one for your meta.
I don't think I would bring her in for the delver matchup but the rest of your analysis is spot on. Also against decks like 4c/Jund she can shut down fire/decay/loam on 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFrowny_
Come on dude... I'm not saying that you should be getting rid of your hate cards to play her but rather that she should be supplementing your hate cards to the same effect that meddling mage is. I don't know where you get the impression that you need to slam her on 1 but that is very incorrect, this deck is not d&t. The point is that she shuts down things that this deck has historically had hard times dealing with almost all at once and you aren't forced to pick which engine you want to target. Will there be some games where 3 mana is too slow and meddling mage would have been superior? Certainly but there will also be games where she completely screwed up your opponent's strategy while mage would have done nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by btm10
Not sure why you'd bring up pit or ring, meddling mage dies to the same exact things unless you're going to name something like knight in that matchup.
Yeah I wouldn't bring her in against delver either, I just have a friend that mains D&T and was using his knowledge of Prelate in my personal analysis.Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
Do you know what's better than a germ equipped a Batterskull and Sword of Feast and Famine? Tasigur equipped with Batterskull and SoFF. That's one sick lifelink card advantage monster. Fun little Tasigur and SoFF combo^.^ surprises everyone until they're like wait that's so strong.
I reallllly want to run Tasigur.... My meta is just filled with so much Karakas :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchyman
You know what's better than a Tasigur equipped with a Battersull and a SoFF? A True-Name Nemesis equipped with a Batterskull and a SoFF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchyman
You know what's better than a True-Name Nemesis equipped with a Battersull and a SoFF? A Griselbrand equipped with a Batterskull and a SoFF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanni
http://www.mtgmintcard.com/articles/...ith-stoneblade
You win. I concede.Quote:
Originally Posted by L10
That decklist was bad.
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Even then the last thing the format needs is more Griseltard.
You gotta admit that list was suuuper spicyQuote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
I love that with his logic, it could have really been any A+B combo. It could have even been Painter+Grindstone.
I really don't. That list is like dinner starting with a steak, but then half-way through it your waiter takes it away and replaces it with a crack-pipe and a shot of tequila.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFrowny_
Oh I wasn't saying it's good lol, It was just real interesting. I like seeing unique takes on established decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
What about going back to the beginning with no black/green splash in this DRs infested meta? Say, something along these lines: (rough draft thrown together while at work)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
1 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Council's Judgment
2 Supreme Verdict
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Tundra
1 Glacial Fortress
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Karakas
2 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
I think that UW is pretty decently positioned right now as well. Although that is pretty biased since I have never been a fan of deathblade, I feel like if I want to jam out TNN asap with equipment you should just be playing bant. The more I play the deck again, I don't actually think that wastelands are really needed. Over the years this deck has gotten very potent tools at dealing with utility land using decks. Although with just straight UW I think you have so many ways to play the deck. I would also like to experiment with a Thought-Knot Seer variant that also plays factories like the one that did decent in SCG DC (or Baltimore) about a year ago.
This is what I have been playing for the record.
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine/Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Karakas
2 Plains
4 Island
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
I always felt that esper stoneblade was "the blade deck"? UW has its advantages but I feel that it's too reactive and can't put pressure on your opponent fast enough. I personally play Deathblade but sometimes I wish I would've played straight esper instead because it can play a better control deck instead of being a jack-of-all-trades.
What are your thoughts on esper right now? Everybody seems to be going to UW or UWr just because Miracles is gone and they think that there has to be a "pure control deck".
I really enjoy the playstyle of UW and the manabase stability are my 2 reasons for playing UW over Esper or Patriot. The splashes add a lot of power to the deck but at the end of the day I think that UW is still the most consistent. With the printing of TNN the deck can transition very easily to either an Aggro or Control deck as the matchup needs and I haven't really had any troubles with that. I find that my biggest problem with any of the variants currently is that I often run out of gas in the midgame and want a nonblastable way to gain some CA hence the gideon. I still would like to try Thopter/Sword or Ancestral Vision but I think that those are either too clunky or too slow respectively. I guess that is the price for playing a deck that is too fair. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFrowny_
Esper also seems fine. You get souls, discard, zealous, the black CA spells (whisper, confidant, strix, truths) and potentially metagame breakers like notion thief and perish. The 3 color variants also can reasonably play EE which is :smile:
One of the reasons I am considering U/W right now without a splash is possibly maindecking Back to Basics. Most legacy decks right now have a very greedy mana base due to Deathrite Shaman being jammed into any deck that can splash him (and Leovold being tempting to everyone who runs creatures in their U/x/x/x/x deck). I am seriously thinking about 2 maindeck Back to Basics with a 3rd in the board. With the number of counters I can run and uncounterable board wipe, I feel like that might be a reasonable addition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
this list doesn't have 60 cards.