Bontu's Last Reckoning seems better than Deluge, especially if your list has artifact mana.
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Bontu's Last Reckoning seems better than Deluge, especially if your list has artifact mana.
I am pretty happy with my deck nowadays. However, in my meta there is lots of lands and I need to have a better sideboard plan than the current. Pithing needle is nice but playing it will merely make my opponent switch to a punishing fire plan. I think I'll switch to four backlash in SB and four Magus of the Moon in main as my win cons.
How do you guys feel about playing 3-4 Chains of Mephistopheles? not factoring price of card in paper and looking it only from a strategy perspective. Especially because multiple chains stack on top of each other and are not redundant.
My current list: (2 cards from sideboard in maindeck only have 1 Chains right now)
4 SmallPox
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Innocent Blood
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Liliana of the The Veil
3 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Crucible of World
1 The Abyss
3 Cursed Scroll
1 Nether Spirit
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Urborg Tomb of Yawmoth
12 Swamp
1 Tabernacle at the Pendrill Vale
1 maze of ith
Sideboard:
1 Nether Void
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 bitterblossom
3 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 extirpate
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A 4x Chains Pox list made some waves a little while ago. Think here from page 170:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ck-Pox/page170
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...gue-2017-05-30
Combo of Geier's Reach Sanatorium or whatever with Chains is pretty powerful.
I think chains is at its most potent when you play in a cantrip heavy meta, and/or plan on draw-step locking your opponent
Hello all:
I'd like some assistance on a concept. Some time back (I cannot find the post for reference), another Pox enthusiast bangled toward a list that doubled down on smallpox in the green-black shell with a playset of Collective Brutality and then filled the list with a bunch of enablers - Raven's Crime, Bloodghast, etc.
I've been working on a list but my card pool is much too large and I don't know where to make cuts. I haven't been playing smallpox decks since Miracles was banned so I don't know the meta as well and I'd really like to disuss this idea.
Even if this idea doesn't turn out to the best I'm interested in starting this as a thought experiment to see what we come up.
Here's what I have:
4 Bloodghast
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Raven's Crime
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Collective Brutality
4 Smallpox
4 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Life From The Loam
1 Sylvan Library
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Mox Diamond
4 Wasteland
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
=26
Sb
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sylvan Library
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 The Abyss
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Dark Confidant
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Darkblast
Maybe:
Abrupt Decay
Thoughtseize
Maelstrom Pulse
Maelstrom Pulse #2
Toxic Deluge
Toxic Deluge #2
Bitterblossom
Diabolic Edict
Cursed Scroll
Raven's Crime
Darkblast
Waste Not
Ramunap Excavator??? Dark Confidant and unearth and Tireless tracker
Card discussion :
- Smallpox - obvious.
- Collective Brutality - new tool which we can use as enabler and perhaps even create virtual CA. Where we get 3 effects from one card but discard two cards into our expanded hand - the graveyard.
Life From The Loam - CA engine enabled by Smallpox and Collective Brutality
Bloodghast - as a 4 of, it makes more sense than Nether Spirit. I did not include Nether Spirit as a possible one-of because I think we should strongly consider a 4-of set of Dark Confidant somewhere in the 75.
Raven's Crime - I believe the original list I saw had this is a playset. Here's where some discussion is necessary. I believe the OP of this concept said they had success with 4x, but I don't recall if he played Thoughtseize, Hymn or Canal Therapy.
Cabal Therapy - like Raven's Crime it can be discarded freely to CB, Smallpox and Liliana of the Veil. However, if we are running this many Therapy, Raven's Crime and CB can we run any Hymn? Probably not. This makes us a weaker to Chalice decks probably and we would need to consider main deck Abrupt Decays? Another weaknessof both Therapy and Raven's Crime is that neither get to choose a card directly from opponents hand to start G1 which is essential for Pox to beat some combo decks, right? What are your thoughts on this point?
Liliana of the Veil - a must include in Smallpox. But does she need to be 4?
Mox Diamond - I have a LOT of trouble figuring this card out. Does the acceleration that it provides create a benefit that outweighs the space it takes up?
Crop Rotation/Entomb - Presently, id like to build the deck such that every draw is almost equally valuable such that it can be discarded and useful or used straight away. So I have not included these cards. I also want to move away from DD combo because Turbo Depths and Lands both do that much much better than us.
Cursed Scroll - often, we wipe the board clean but our opponent is left with 1 or 2 cards left in hand because legacy is so efficient. Cursed Scroll rewards us for emptying our hand and is another CA engine.
Maelstrom Pulse, toxic deluge, Diabolic Edict - All cards that create an effect/fill in a weakness we do not otherwise have answers for, but exist in the last few potential open spots in the deck.
SB:
3 Surgical Extraction - useful, castable, instant speed, obvious
1 Chains of Mephistopheles - I own it, it's cool to use, maybe not good enough?
1 The Abyss - I own it, it's expensive to cast, very often good enough when it hits the board
Ensnaring Bridge - this card rewards us for emptying our hand and rewards us for playing the game we want to play it.
Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale - obviously an amazing card that rewards us for doing our resource denial thing. Also, it works with Raven's Crime where our opponent can choose to discard extra lands and kicks themselves for it later. Downside is that our deck cannot search this card out so it may never show up when we want it.
Dark Confidant - post board, many opponents will take out removal (especially grixis ) and dark confidant should carry the day.
Pithing Needge - Maelstrom Pulse and pithing needle kinda sorta might occupy the same space but Needle is easier to cast?
Thrun, the Last Troll - brick wall, hard to answer for most decks. Hard to cast for us?
Ill be looking forward to some discussion on this. I hope that this concept is effective!
That's a lot of 2 drops with only 22 lands, 8 of which don't tap for black (or find black). You may need land count looking more like AggroLoam totals to pull that off. I think that right now you've got a list that maybe kills itself when it casts its first Smallpox, and will have significant difficulty assembling a state where it can start retracing Raven's Crime. At a minimum, I would move to Sinkhole over Smallpox if you're going with that manabase. That's what I see in your list anyways @ClimbGneiss, tactics without stable groundwork to execute them.
Good critique. So let's move away from Mishra's Factory and replace with colored sources. And, if Mox Diamond doesn't make the cut, add in 1 to 2 more sources.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
This is were i usually object. If you play green for loam, you should play crop rotation. If you play crop rotation you should definitely play stage /depths combo. Anything else is suboptimal.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss
Collective Brutality is better than I thought when first time i tested it. I would say it is on par with kolghan's command.
Unlike the command it goes well in Mono b.
I have two in my BloodPox list, and a third in the sideboard. I pitch Bloodghasts, vengeful pharaoh to it, and I run reanimate too. Magus of the moon and tombstalker can go to the yard with little worry.
Thanks for the input, would you mind sharing your list? The interaction you're referring to, pitching Bloodghast to collective brutality, is definitely what I'm trying to maximize. I definitely understand you're point of view regarding DD combo, I just think it requires too much deck space where I'm trying to sell out on this "breaking the symmetry" style deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
However, if you wouldn't mind sharing your list and some pros and cons of if it's gameplay, I'll definitely take it under consideration for how I end up finishing the build.
You may find that maximising the effect may stop at less than four cards, and that your focus on Collective Brutality will be in vain. It has less impact on the game than Smallpox or pox since it doesn't touch lands. Thus it is more of a support card. When played it will be to your advantage, but it is no blow out. CB is a good addition to pox, and I use it in the role of Innocent Blood. Killing DRS ans SFMs mainly, with bonus effect vs burn.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss
My list is BR, but maybe it will be food for thought nonetheless.
CREATURES (10)
4 Bloodghast
3 Magus of the Moon
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
2 Tombstalker
ENCHANTMENTS (3)
3 Shrieking Affliction
SORCERIES (17)
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Pox
2 Reanimate
1 Buried Alive
4 Smallpox
2 Collective Brutality
INSTANTS (4)
4 Dark Ritual
PLANESWALKERS (3)
3 Liliana of the Veil
ARTIFACTS (2)
2 Pithing Needle
LANDS (22)
11 Swamp
1 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
2 Blood Crypt
SIDEBOARD (15)
4 Engineered Plague
4 Backlash
1 Collective Brutality
4 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle
1 Magus of the Moon
My GB Pox list from GP Vegas, made day 2 at 7-2:
Spells:
4 Smallpox
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Life from the Loam
3 Collective Brutality
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Entomb
1 Innocent Blood
1 Crop Rotation
1 Raven's Crime
Creatures:
3 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit
Lands:
4 Wasteland
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Barren Moor
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Mishra's Factory
Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
1 Golgari Charm
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Duress
1 Collective Brutality
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Innocent Blood
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Crop Rotation
2 Extirpate
Other sideboard considerations are Maze of Ith, 2nd Bojuka Bog, Chains of Mephistopheles, Nether Void, The Abyss, Karakas, and more.
I do not play Mox Diamond because we are playing a game based on efficiency and card advantage, Mox Diamond is about accelerating to you can get ahead fast and win fast. This is not the Pox way. It also does not play well with Pernicious Deed which is often the best card in the deck.
Playing Crop Rotation does not necessitate playing Dark Depths, I played Depths combo in my GB pox for years and never liked it. I only played it for the time concerns because inexperienced miracles players took too long. A good miracles pilot should not have that issue but unfortunately we lost Sensei's Divining Top because of the bad ones.
Some other notes, there are alot of CMC 2 cards, this makes Sanctum Prelate and to a lesser extent Chalice of the Void a concern. Liliana of the Veil, Pernicious Deed, Innocent Blood, and Crop Rotation for Cabal Pit or Mishra's Factory are the answers and really I'd like more. Chalice can be Decayed so less of an issue.
I Escalated Collective Brutality 95% of the time, that card is legit, not a bad matchup. At least 2 occasions I drained for two life vs turbo depths to go to 21 so I could take a hit from Marit Lage and then Lily sacrifice next turn. Also I love the one of Crucible of Worlds people bring in surgical so I usually swap out 1 Life from the Loam, they are usually pretty disappointed when they search the deck and only find 2 copies total.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein
Hey Josh! Thanks for the input. I'm glad you shared your thoughts on Mox Diamond. That card confuses me the most in Pox builds. I would tend to agree, but do you find that without it that we cannot beat sneak and show and other combo decks? It looks like your deck has made the hard decisions on the numbers of each Spell to play that I was struggling with. My only question is whether or not you wish you had more smallpox and collective brutality enablers? If so, where would you make cuts?
I agree with excluding DD combo. It's not like we do a particularly good job of utilizing the combo, so I was never impressed and often frustrated by having the rogue dark depths in my opener.
Something I like about your list is that you have a good mixture of targeted discard and cabal therapy, which enhances the vaue of therapy.
What are your thoughts on Toxic Deluge instead of Pernicious Deed? Do you ever find that the extra turn you have to wait to pop Deed loses you the game?
Wheres Fatal Push???
So I beat Sneak and Show and other combo decks with discard, followed by Lily (or raven's crime lock)so you want as many cards in your hand which Mox diamond doesn't help with. Remember if you are blind naming with therapy name the card that beats you not necessarily what you think they might have.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss
As far as things to discard to Smallpox and Collective Brutality, I have never had an issue. Loam, Bloodghast, Nether spirit, cabal therapy, extra lands or redundant spells there are plenty of options.
Deluge is a great card, I've actually played Damnation in my sideboard. I prefer Deed because it hits so much more, including man lands and equipment. I do not play thoughtseize because life is too valuable in Pox so kinda that same feeling for Deluge, but in the match-ups you want it, it will be great.
For Fatal Push, another great card but I have done my best to minimize targeted removal and cards that could be dead in some match-ups.
Pernicious Deed is appealing because, in certain scenarios, one can just cast it asap and hold it up for the rest of the game for instant speed interactions whereas Toxic Deluge will always be sorcery speed. Also, Deluge costs life, like you mentioned. I think I'll give it a try.Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein
Thoughtseize vs IoK - I agree I do want targeted discard. Im leaning toward Thoughtseize because it hits Jace, Sneak Attack, etc. But the life loss argument is totally legit.
I'm forming my list - I'll reply with it to the thread when I get a chance.
I have used Mox Diamond really effectively alongside Life from the Loam and Chalice of the Void in Pox. It allowed turn 1 Chalice on 1, and Loam helped recoup the card disadvantage. I was also on Abrupt Decays, Maelstrom Pulses, and Sylvan Libraries, so they helped the splash.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss
I think Mox Diamond gets a lot better with Life from the Loam, simply due to synergy. Mono-black uses Dark Ritual, which is objectively more powerful but sacrifices card advantage for tempo. The green splash enables bigger bombs as well alongside the Diamonds (Pernicious Deed, Crop Rotation/Loam synergy.) I would pretty much stick to Dark Ritz for mono-black, but if I was committed to Mox Diamond I would splash green for loam/rotation/deed/decay.
I wish the cycle land synergy with loam was more viable, I used to love doing that in extended Death Cloud. Now even if we squeeze 1-2 cycle lands into the deck it can be disruptive to the game plan. Other lands are just simply better, having a much higher value in the format (Bojuka Bog, Depths/Stage, Cabal Pit, Karakas) and once those are included alongside the appropriate mana-producing lands/fetches/wastelands there is actually very little room for cycle lands. *sigh* Nostalgia.
This is what I've come up with after evaluating your list. I removed the Sylvan Library from main and side for the 1 Entomb and crop rotation. Added the Cabal Pit and Bog. Kept the pushes and Diabolic Edict bc I think the instant speed interaction is strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss
3 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit
1 Cursed Scroll
=5
1 Raven's Crime
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
=6
3 Collective Brutality
4 Smallpox
=7
3 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Diabolic Edict
=7
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Life From The Loam
2 Pernicious Deed
=7
1 Entomb
1 Crop Rotation
=2
4 Wasteland
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
=25
(1 space open)
Sb
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 The Abyss
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
2 Duress
1 Maelstrom Pulse
I agree that without Chalice/Sphere effects to slam on turn 1, Moxes are less than great. Turn 1 Smallpox/Sinkhole/Brutality are only good on the draw, you really need some thing proactive. (This is an addendum to my last post. Y'all snuck in between)
I'm curious to hear how the GB thing works out for you. I have a hard time justifying the splash now that I don't need Decays to fight Counterbalance. Part of my problem is card availability though.
Hey ClimbGneiss, I've been working on GB Pox for awhile and got inspired by Josh's Bloodghast/Cabal Therapy tech. But I disagree with him on Mox Diamond. Its not about acceleration, but more about breaking the parity when we cast Smallpox. We are also a two color deck that runs dual colored/double black cards in a format with Wasteland. I don't run Pernicious Deed, I tried it and felt it was too slow and it doesn't deal with planeswalkers.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss
Fatal Push imo is the black version of Swords to Plowshares. I find Deathrite Shaman to be a big threat to our strategy and Fatal Push kills him clean.
Two cards that I've been messing with are Mirri's Guile and Bontu's Last Reckoning.
I was running 2x Sensei's Divining Top before it got banned and felt it really helped smooth out our draws/dredging.
Mirri's Guile is not nearly as powerful SDT, but gets the job done, especially when you have Life From the Loam in the yard. To dredge or not to dredge sometimes becomes a big question...Mirri's Guile helps with that alot. Got lands and Bloodghast in you top three cards...loam away; see that Maelstrom Pulse or Liliana 2nd from the top...maybe don't dredge.
Bontu's Last Reckoning went into my Pernicious Deed slot in the sideboard. Consequently, it works a lot better with Mox Diamond. Times where I used Deed it was more of a creature board wipe and less about dealing with artifacts and enchantments.
Lastly,
Two things: Garruk Relentless and DD/Stage combo.
I run the DD/Stage combo. If you run Crop Rotation/Entomb and Life From the Loam it allows another angle of attack that doesn’t disturb the natural flow of the deck. It’s also “softly” resilient to Legacy’s premier removal spell, Swords to Plowshares. Gain 20 life and try again.
Garruk Relentless is great against control and really grindy matchups.
Here’s my current list:
Lands (27)
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest
1 Barren Moor
1 Dark Depths
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
Creatures (3)
2 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Liliana of the Veil
Spells (24)
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Smallpox
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Life from the Loam
2 Entomb
2 Collective Brutality
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Fatal Push
1 Thoughtseize
1 Raven's Crime
1 Crop Rotation
1 Toxic Deluge
Other (4)
3 Mox Diamond
1 Mirri's Guile
Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Duress
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Crop Rotation
1 Lost Legacy
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Pithing Needle
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Coffin Purge
1 Engineered Plague
1 Karakas
Thanks for the reply. I'm glad to see that there's some debate over Mox Diamond because I can't figure it out or the life of me.Quote:
Originally Posted by streetMage
What's your win % with the deck? Where do you struggle?
3-2 in my last 2 leagues with 4 cards changed in the main (-2 toxic deluge - 2 tombstalker + 4 bitterblossom):
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
4 Bloodghast
4 Bitterblossom
3 Fatal Push
3 The Rack
2 Collective Brutality
4 Wasteland
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Bloodstained Mire
14 Swamp
SB:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Marsh Casualties
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
Last league:
Eldrazi Ramp 0-2
- Embarrassing loss but the games were close despite some mulligans. Oblivion Sower hit the right things both games (my threats in game 1, a wasteland for my wasteland game 2...)
Burn 2-0
- Feels hard to lose this matchup lately!
Lands 2-1
- Lose game one as always, though I didn't instantly scoop this time. Game 2 was quite long but successive Smallpoxes take him from 3 life to 0. Game 3 quick surgical on loam into Faerie beats with wasteland for glacial chasm.
Dragon Stompy 1-2
- Another puzzling loss to a chalice deck, but Koth gets the better of me twice. Game 3 I am punished for keeping only 1 black source in my 7.
Grixis Delver 2-1
- Lack of Deluge wasn't felt, and I never saw my marsh casualties. I sloppily miscalculated combat game 2 and died to my Bitterblossoms unnecessarily.
Not amazing results but better than expected with 0 toxic deluge, the idea was to be just a bit more proactive/consistent. Mulligans have been less frequent with 18 black sources, but they must be taken if you are short on swamps.
Next league I will try swapping 1 bitterblossom for 1 tombstalker. Might even make room for the 2nd and cut a Thoughtseize, recommendations welcome!
This is my only "major" claim to fame with an much older version of the deck: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14378&d=285961&f=LE lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss
I mostly play once or twice a month at my LGS. Not that much legacy where I live unfortunately....but I do get alot of casual games on mtgo. Decks like BUG can be an issue, between Deathrite Shaman, Ancestral Visions, Jace and Baleful Strix they just climb back in the game through raw CA. That's why cards like Chains of Mephistopheles are in the sideboard and work so well against them.
Death and Taxes can be an issue aswell when they lock you down with the Thalia legends and Rishadan Port. Sneak and Show mainly because of Griselbrand can be a struggle...
Sometimes a good turn one Hymn To Tourach (with the help of Mox Diamond) can hose the opponent for the rest of the match. Burn usto be a problem but got infinitely easier when I added the 2nd Collective Brutality to the main...card is absolute bonkers.
I think GB Pox has weapons to deal with every deck in the format, discard, uncounterable removal, gy hate...I was hoping for a 3 cmc Vraska planeswalker or something from the new set. If only Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver was in our colors:rolleyes:
Just went 3-2 at my weekly with this list :Quote:
Originally Posted by streetMage
3 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit
1 Cursed Scroll
=5
1 Raven's Crime
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
=6
3 Collective Brutality
4 Smallpox
=7
3 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Diabolic Edict
=7
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Life From The Loam
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library
=8
1 Entomb
1 Crop Rotation
=2
4 Wasteland
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
=25
Sb
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Crop Rotation
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
2 Duress
1 Maelstrom Pulse
Rd 1 Beat Esper Delver 2-0.
Rd 2 Beat Grixis Delver 2-0
Rd 3 Squeaked out 2-1 vs Landstill brew.
Rd 4 Lost 2-1 to Moon Stompy. I can tell you that this is unwinnable. This list is extremely refined and should be seeing more play.
Rd 5 Lost 2-0 to Bug value brew. This is super winnable. Just hit a weak stretch of cards at a bad time. Almost pulled it out. G2, I wiped out my opponent with smallpox and wasteland and they turned around by playing a land, a Grafdiggers cage and ripping off several lands and creatures where I stalled on lands I think. I finally got enough lands to cast a Deed and they top decked a Phyrexian Revoker ftw.
This deck has legs. I want to change to sideboard. I'd like more starkly different effects than what the deck has so i can sideboard easier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotkenmendo
You have probably too many 1cc discard.
Six should be enough that you see one in starting hand most of the time.
I want one allllll the time though. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
But yeah, I'm going to try -1 Thoughtseize -1 Bitterblossom + 2 Tombstalker in paper tonight.
Definitely a tough matchup, Mox Diamond makes it a little more manageable.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss
How was Cursed Scroll?
I there for this, you got super lucky that he was playing the wasteland game against you when he should have been developing his mana base.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss
List seems sweet. Actually makes me excited about Pox for the first time in a long time, though I tend towards mono black or bw.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein
Ok so I posted a brief tourney report and this deck feels very strong!
Some card choices I made differently than you that felt really good:
Sylvan Library. The combo of Library and Loam was pretty insane. I shredded my opponents apart with alternating between Wasting them when appropriate, retracing Raven's Crime and drawing a card from the top of library.
Fatal Push/Diabolic Edict. I faced a lot of True-Name and Anglers. The instant speed was essential. Often, I'd bait out a Daze or Force of Will by casting Diabolic Edict EOT and then slam Liliana a of the Veil.
Chains of Mephistopheles. I removed The Abyss just before the tournament from the sideboard. This cards effect is replaceable by more Crop rotations or Crop rotation targets. Chains I decided to keep. I proceeded to have it in my opening hand maybe 3 times and slam it against a tapped out opponent with multiple cantrips in hand several times. As you may know, the card is often underwhelming, but with such value packed decks nowadays with so few threats, it's actually really good at the moment.
Card choices that you had that performed well for me:
Pernicious Deed. So I was fairly hesitant on this one. I thought Deluge wa going to be much better but I ran out 2 main deck Deed. It swept up mobs of creatures 2 or 3 times. Twice it was a lititle slow only because I top decked it or was mana screwed. Against Blood moon stompy, a turn earlier and I would have swept away 2 chalice, a Pia andKiran thoptor, 3 goblin tokens, and a Rabblemaster, and a Leyline of the Void. That sort of answer is unbelievable and super useful.
Another game, facing down a goyf, a tracker, a Grafdiggers cage and a Deathrite shaman I was about to take a big amount of damage with plenty of life left and my opponent top decked a Revoker ftw.
Slightly more luck and I would have gotten 4 or 5 for 1s.
Entomb/Nether Spirit. I entombed for Nether Spirit vs Gurmag Angler like 5 times. Diversifying the Bloodghasts with a single Spirit is definitely correct vs a world where everyone runs 2 or 3 surgicals.
Funny that my BR list and to be strong against the BG weaknesses and vice versa. (stomped on Moonstompy last night)
That seems like valuable meta info! I had never consider running straight black - red. I've considered black green red a la Kennen Haas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
I was looking for tech that would dramatically turn the tables in the match up.
I found that in magus of the moon and Backlash. No lightning bolts.
Sylvan Library is great, but does not play well with Deed. I play 1 or 2 Tops until Wizards killed that one. (Should have been counterbalance, still annoyed by that call. Top it too integral to tier 2/fringe decks) Top was 1000% better than Library and works with Deed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss
Fatal Push does not help with True-name or Angler. But I get what you are saying about instant speed. Efficient spells act the same way, 2 in one turn.
I love Chains but with Miracles mostly gone it is less good, and stranding cantrips in their hand makes small pox and Lily +1 less effective.
Pernicious Deed is what my whole deck is built around, I think it is criminally underplayed.
I agree top is much, much better - especially with Deed. I actually am running two nonbo cards alongside the deeds: library and Cursed scroll. I could imagine removing Sylvan Library even thought it felt fine the other night. But, I'm actually fine with the nonbo of scroll and deed. Scroll is good enough in the deck and rewards you for using up your hand like we typically do.Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein
Definitely, i was referring to Diabolic Edict with regards o angler and true name. Regarding push, I would have used Deathrite and delver as examples.
The point you make about Chains is really well made. I may have just been lucky in my matches the other night. One opponent I stranded them with 2 Brainstorm and a 1 Ponder for several turns which felt decent. This sideboard spot could probably be utilized by a card which is more powerful in the sense that I like my sideboard cards to win matches when possible. Its a bit harder in golgari, in esper you just play Containment Priest and win the match. I digress.
I do appreciate the advise on Deed. That definitely feels like the right place to be and I'd like to add a 3rd to the 75. I think it's most powerful just after the beginning of the game wiping 2 or 3 creatures and then slamming a Liliana, a la old school Nic Fit.
I'd like to discuss the sideboard. I was all mixed up on how to board. It felt like I didn't know what to take out versus far decks. And the cards I was bringing in were just more of the same (decay, pulse, deluge, etc.). Makes me think my sideboard could be better utilized running silver bullets.
Hardcore, do you have a link to your list? i couldn't find it, though I'm sure it's there. I'm looking for a different approach to the Lands matchup, my Leylines/Needles/Wastelands don't seem to be cutting it, and it sounds like you've got something good going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Against Lands have you tried Surgical Extraction and Lost Legacy...even Coffin Purge? Once you deal with Life From the Loam, Lands becomes more than manageable...Quote:
Originally Posted by ntropy
I'm not sure if you run green, but Crop Rotation is also good in that matchup when running Bojuka Bog, Thespian's Stage and Karakas.
Here. The cursed scrolls was pithing needles, but I am trying another angle.Quote:
Originally Posted by ntropy
CREATURES (10)
4 Bloodghast
3 Magus of the Moon
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
2 Tombstalker
ENCHANTMENTS (3)
3 Shrieking Affliction
SORCERIES (17)
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Pox
2 Reanimate
1 Buried Alive
4 Smallpox
2 Collective Brutality
INSTANTS (4)
4 Dark Ritual
PLANESWALKERS (3)
3 Liliana of the Veil
ARTIFACTS (2)
2 Cursed Scroll
LANDS (22)
11 Swamp
1 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
2 Blood Crypt
SIDEBOARD (15)
4 Engineered Plague
4 Backlash
4 Surgical Extraction
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Collective Brutality
Changes to main:
-2 Bitterblossom, - 1 Thoughtseize
+2 Tombstalker, + 1 Liliana, the Last Hope
SB:
-2 Marsh Caualties, - 1 Null Rod
+ 2 Toxic Deluge, + 1 Chains of Mephistopheles
Played just 3 rounds in paper.
R1: 0-2 Sneak'n'Show
G1: On the draw, get turn 1'd. Joy!
G2: Turn 2 Sphere for me is necessary but I only have my 2 starting lands. He taps out for a 4 mana Show and Tell. Grisel for him, Ensnaring Bridge for me. Looking to draw my 3rd land for my Smallpox in hand, can't do it, next turn Grisel goes active/finds Abrade, etc.
R2: 2-1 DnT
G1: On the play but get behind early on. The Last Hope helps me grind back into it along with Bitterblossom. On his last turn to live he topdecks the Mirran Crusader to kill me with lightning greaves.
G2: Pretty quick Liliana/Rack win.
G3: I have removal/both Lili's vs more lands than he'd like.
R3: 0-2 B/R Reanimator
G1: On the draw again vs combo, actually ends up being a close race between Sire and Rack/Factory, but I die.
G2: I keep a 6 with a nice curve but no gy hate, I don't go to five looking for it as it would probly be taken from me anyway. Turn one Thoughtseize reveals Entomb, 2x Ritual, Exhume, Elesh Norn, land. I take entomb. He draws another and gets Iona. Joy!
Naturally the Infect and Delvers dodged me. Not happy losing to Sneak or B/R, but it's got to happen sometimes. Will return with more league results...
So I've tweaked this list just in the sideboard to include a couple more silver bullets in the board. I kept the Cursed Scroll and Sylvan Library in the MD even though they don't play well with Pernicious Deed.
The sideboard silver bullets that I added are:
- 1 Null Rod
- 1 Lost Legacy
- 1 Garruk Relentless
I removed
- 1 Crop Rotation
- 1 Crucible of Worlds
- 1 Chains of Mephistopheles
One thing I'm unsure of:
Should I find space for a 3rd Abrupt Decay main deck and remove the 2 sideboard Abrupt Decay? Then I could add back in the Chains which is useful against Grixis, Griselbrand, etc.
3 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit
1 Cursed Scroll
=5
1 Raven's Crime
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
=6
3 Collective Brutality
4 Smallpox
=7
3 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Diabolic Edict
=7
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Life From The Loam
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library
=8
1 Entomb
1 Crop Rotation
=2
4 Wasteland
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Cabal Pit
1 Bojuka Bog
=25
Sb
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
2 Duress
1 Golgari Charm
1 Lost Legacy
1 Garruk Relentless / Bitterblossom
1 Null Rod
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Abrupt Decay (1?)
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Chains of Mephistopheles