[DTB] Sneak Attack

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dcosiem

@blindspot I would personally play what you've selected in your sideboard. The other 2 seems a lot worse. If you want to play Leyline, playing 3 is not a good idea. Statistically, 4 is better than 3 because the probability of a leyline of becoming a relevant draw is. I rather not to do the math here. I will personally try to fight the counter wars so I wouldn't play defense Grid. Otherwise, everything looks good.

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Defense Grid is the only solid thing I can board in against RUG and Patriot. My dilemma is without Blood Moon I feel that the DNT match up would be super bad. I need some Karakas, Wasteland and Rishadan Port hate. I really want to fit in 2 Blood Moons honestly, I have no guts to run a 0 Pyroclasm and 0 Bounce sideboard as well!

@Spell Pierce Topic

Not sure if it's really weak but I have been seeing a lot of lists that use 3-4 Spell Pierce when they don't have 2 Flusterstorms main. Is 3 Daze better than 2 Spell Pierce? Daze becomes weak fast against Control Decks though and DRS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blindspotxxx

Defense Grid is the only solid thing I can board in against RUG and Patriot. My dilemma is without Blood Moon I feel that the DNT match up would be super bad. I need some Karakas, Wasteland and Rishadan Port hate. I really want to fit in 2 Blood Moons honestly, I have no guts to run a 0 Pyroclasm and 0 Bounce sideboard as well!

@Spell Pierce Topic

Not sure if it's really weak but I have been seeing a lot of lists that use 3-4 Spell Pierce when they don't have 2 Flusterstorms main. Is 3 Daze better than 2 Spell Pierce? Daze becomes weak fast against Control Decks though and DRS.

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Defense Grid is nice, but resolving a flusterstorm as a back up counter to show and tell is the same thing. Game 1 against Rug is usually an auto win. I personally haven't played against Patriot much. I wouldn't expect it being formidable because it's the same deck as rug without the Goyfs and Mongoose.

Spell Pierce is good against countering simple 1 cmc spells like Ponder, Preordain, Brainstorm, Thoughtseize, Inquisition, and Jace when your opponent taps out for mana. I believe playing Daze is a matter of knowing one's preference or play-style. It comes down to this: Are you willing to wait out against your opponent when you have enough counter spells to win the counter war or are you willing to combo out immediately when you have it and not care if they have a counter or not? Daze makes sense in the second situation but not in the first. Spell pierce makes better sense in the first situation than the second. Personally, I play to the second scenario whereas I don't care what my opponent is doing or playing. I'm going to try to get my combo off and win. To make this play work, I play Daze and Gitaxian Probe to ensure that when I combo early, I can peek to see whether or not my opponent has something for me. Daze will be hard to counter if i combo on turn 2 or 3.

Top 2'd the tournament I joined! Balls to the walls plays lol

Tournament Report to follow

Duel for Duals IV (70 players?)

Main Deck:

4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Intuition
3 Spell Pierce
2 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors

Sideboard:

3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Defense Grid
2 Blood Moon
2 Pyroblast
2 Through the Breach
2 Pyroclasm
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away

Round 1: Punishing Jund

Game 1: I get nothing going except a Misdirection to his Hymn to Tourach. He has no other disruption but I don't draw any Enablers with 2 Emrakuls and a Griselbrand Mocking me. What a way to start the tournament. I also have Pondered Twice already lol

Game 2: I get a 2nd Turn Show and Tell into Emrakul and he has no Liliana of the Veil

Game 3: He mulls to 4 and I combo off turn 2. Better Lucky than Good!!!

Round 2: Dark Maverick

Game 1: I get a turn 2 Kill with Island, Petal, Petal, City of Traitors into Sneak Attack Griselbrand and draw 7 Petal into Emrakul and swing with both with him only having a Bayou and a Deathrite Shaman and misses his 2nd turn land drop.

Game 2: He has a funky sideboard of the Guildmage that can Tap a creature for W. He lays down Thalia, Birds, Deathrite, Guildmage, Sylvan Library and Lands. I somehow get to Show and Tell Sneak Attack into play and Sneak in Griselbrand draw 7 for a Petal, play Petal through Thalia and Sneak in my Emrakul in hand. He gets board wiped but he has DRS and Guildmage in play for the next turn. He has blocked Emrakul so he is still alive. Next turn I draw Pyroclasm although I already have the Echoing Truth to bounce his Guildmage and Sneak in for the Win.

Round 3: U/R Delver

Game 1: I get a turn 3 Show and Tell into Griselbrand with a Counter Back up and that's Game. I never drew 7 cards just Lifelinked him to death.

Game 2: I get a 3rd turn Defense Grid which surprisingly resolves and I Sneak in a few turns later.

Round 4: Boros Burn

Game 1: Turn 2 Show and Tell Emrakul at 16 Life :)

Game 2: I open with 2 Leyline of Sanctity (BETTER LUCKY THAN GOOD!) Turn 2 Show and Tell Emrakul and I Force of Will his newly drawn Ensnaring Bridge.

Round 5: Death and Taxes (mrjumbo03)

Game 1: I get locked out by Mother, Thalia, Karakas then he Vials in Mangara and I scoop.

Game 2: I get a Turn 4 Through the Breach with 2 Sol Lands I think and Eliminate his board. We play draw go for a long time but I already have Sneak Attack in play. I countered his first 2 Attempts at a Creature while cantripping and he lands one finally because I've run out of counters! After 3 Ponders and 2 Brainstorms I finally top deck Emrakul again when facing lethal. Bazaar of Moxen? lol

Game 3: I Show and Tell Griselbrand and he lays down a Batterskull. He has Thalia I think and I thought he didn't have Karakas but he plays it on his Turn and Bounces Griselbrand. I draw 6 of course :) I have dealt myself like 9 damage already (Ancient Tomb and Griselbrand) and he does 7. I Through the Breach Emrakul next turn but he has 7 Permanents (Stupid Germ Token!) and the last Phyrexian Revoker kills me.

Round 6: UW Fish

Game 1: Turn 2 Show and Tell Emrakul with Force of Will Back up. He can't race that.

Game 2: No Vial turn 1 this time and he doesn't really get a clock except 2 Mutavaults. I have no combo until like turn 7? I play Defense Grid with a lot of open mana and he burns his Force of Will. When he plays Lord and Silvergill I Pyroclasm them out. I play Sneak Attack and we both play Draw Go for a while with me nearly facing lethal. I finally draw an Emrakul and swing and he scoops despite being alive at 4 Life and no permanents.

Round 7: UWR Patriot (Draw)

ID into Top 8

Quarterfinals: Grixis Show and Know (Super Epic Matches!)

Game 1: I was paired up with a great player with the deck so I know things will be rough. I have also tweaked my deck to be weaker to opposing combo to have better chances to beat RUG and Patriot which has been the new epidemic in our metagame (no more 2 main deck Flusterstorms and added 2 Daze). We both spend the first few turns sculpting our hands for the big counter war and who can combo off successfully. This is the 2nd time we would be facing each other and both of us have great understanding of the matchup. I think on our turn 7? I draw 1st blood by casting Show and Tell. My game plan was to Show and Tell my Sneak Attack and wipe his board but if I lose the counterwar then I still have a Sneak Attack left in my hand. Somehow like a bait but if it resolves I win. He Forces and I Force back and to my surprise he has no Counters anymore so I jam Sneak Attack and attack with Emmy.

Game 2: Another round of hand sculpting from both sides but he has Thoughtseize to make my life harder. I really go defensive this time and chose to not cast my singleton Intuition as it can be a great tool box when something happens. I did not go Intuition into an Early Sneak Attack because if I lose the counter war then I wouldn't be able to draw anymore enablers to kill him. (Boarded out all of my Show and Tells so I have 6 cards to kill him 2 Through the Breach and 4 Sneak Attack). He Thoughseizes away my Intuition but sees a hand of Force of Will protection some Pyroblasts, Spell Pierce and Griselbrand. It would be risky for him to Show and Tell for the kill if he didn't have Omniscience and Emrakul as I can just draw a buttload of cards to counter his Burning Wishes. I finally go for it when I draw Sneak Attack because I figured he has less counter magic because his disruption is Thoughtseize and Daze. We go into a Counter War and I lose because he had a Flusterstorms and a Force of Will. It's his turn to combo and he proceeds to Show and Tell Omniscience (I Griselbrand) and he puts down both Emrakul and Griselbrand lol GG

Game 3: I go on the play yey. We both spend our 1st few turns on cantrips with him on the edge with more consistent land drops and me with an Island, Ancient Tomb and double Petal. We don't do anything until turn 5. And since I missed some land drops I had to discard my Misdirection (2nd one in my hand). I finally draw 2 Fetchlands straight and he Thoughtseizes me. He sees a hand of Force of Will, Misdirection, Intuition, Spell Pierce, Through the Breach and Double Pyroblast. He takes the Intuition of course :) He plays a Show and Tell when he had 8 cards and I Pyroblast it. A few turns later he goes for it with 8 cards in hand to my 5?

Him: Thoughtseize!

Me: Misdirection hardcasted!

Him: Force of Will!

Me: Pyroblast!

Him: Flusterstorm! (I think)

I knew he would win the Counter War as he had more cards in hand and had casted more Cantrips than me. Thoughtseize resolves and I am left with Force of Will and Through the Breach. At this point I was ready to shake his hand. He casts Show and Tell putting Emrakul into play. OMG one more chance no Omniscience!!! I proceed to top deck MVP Griselbrand it felt like winning the jackpot. I had like 10 total mana in play with 2 Lotus Petal. Pay 5 for Through the Breach Griselbrand and draw 7 (Down to 7 life). There's a Sneak Attack, 2 Brainstorms, Preordain, Force of Will, Land and another card I forgot. I cast Sneak Attack and it resolves, I am left with 2 Lotus Petals for mana but no Emrakul to end the game. I Preordain into a Land and a Force of Will and draw the next card.. It's a Land! I use my last mana for a Brainstorm gambling with a Petal and Emrakul and I get Lotus Petal.

I need a fresh hand and I now know I can't kill him so I swing with Griselbrand to his Emrakul for life link (14 life). I draw another 7 cards and still no Emrakul but another Griselbrand shows up (Down to 7 Life again). I sigh with both frustration and relief as I have drawn 14 cards and Brainstormed and Preordained already and not finding a single Emrakul, relief because I have another Griselbrand and will probably survive the next swing. He plays a Burning Wish which I Force and swings with Emrakul annihilating all of my lands the only permanent left is Sneak Attack and a Lotus Petal. I Sneak in Griselbrand to block and go back to 14 Life! My last turn and my last top deck........

BOOM! Emrakul finally shows up!!! I play a Scalding Tarn for my last Red Source a lone mountain and I Sneak in Emrakul and swing with him on 13 life after 2 Thoughtseizes!!!! Epic Match is epic! We both shake each others hand with respect after a much intense game.

Semifinals: UWR Patriot

Game 1: Turn 3 Show and Tell with Force of Will and Misdirection Back up. He also had 2 Force of Wills but I win the counter war to put Down Emrakul and win.

Game 2: He goes turn 2 Stoneforge into Sword of Feast and Famine? I Pyroclasm with City of Traitors and my mountain this was a misplay I think as I was playing around Daze but City of Traitors died later on and I couldn't ramp into Daze Protection and Spell Pierce protection for my combo I had a lot of Lands in hand that's why I risked losing the City. My Show and Tell gets Dazed, Show and Tell gets Force'd and I die to 3 Swings of Geist of St. Traft.

Game 3: He goes turn 2 Meddling Mage, I of course burn all my fetches to avoid Stifle. For a lot of turns he just has Meddling Mage (Show and Tell) which gets me down to around 10. I decide to Pyroclasm it and he Forces. At this point I already have a lot of lands like 6 mana? I lay down Defense Grid and he burns his other Force of Will. I have only 2 Griselbrands and no enablers but I have a 2nd Pyroclasm. He still has no clock and I cast the 2nd Pyroclasm to kill the lone threat he had. I was down to 7 at this point. I play Sneak Attack with 7 open mana. He Brainstorms, Spell Pierces, Dazes but I pay all of the tax counters and Sneak Attack resolves but i can't activate it. Next turn Sneak Griselbrand swing for life and draw 7. Next turn Sneak both Emra and Grisel :) End of the game he shows me a Flusterstorm and a Pyroblast which he can't use :)

Finals: Punishing Jund

Prize split since it's already midnight :)

Won 4 Force of Will and a Bayou had a really great night with Magic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blindspotxxx

Top 2'd the tournament I joined! Balls to the walls plays lol

Tournament Report to follow

Duel for Duals IV (70 players?)

Main Deck:

4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Intuition
3 Spell Pierce
2 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors

Sideboard:

3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Defense Grid
2 Blood Moon
2 Pyroblast
2 Through the Breach
2 Pyroclasm
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away

Round 1: Punishing Jund

Game 1: I get nothing going except a Misdirection to his Hymn to Tourach. He has no other disruption but I don't draw any Enablers with 2 Emrakuls and a Griselbrand Mocking me. What a way to start the tournament. I also have Pondered Twice already lol

Game 2: I get a 2nd Turn Show and Tell into Emrakul and he has no Liliana of the Veil

Game 3: He mulls to 4 and I combo off turn 2. Better Lucky than Good!!!

Round 2: Dark Maverick

Game 1: I get a turn 2 Kill with Island, Petal, Petal, City of Traitors into Sneak Attack Griselbrand and draw 7 Petal into Emrakul and swing with both with him only having a Bayou and a Deathrite Shaman and misses his 2nd turn land drop.

Game 2: He has a funky sideboard of the Guildmage that can Tap a creature for W. He lays down Thalia, Birds, Deathrite, Guildmage, Sylvan Library and Lands. I somehow get to Show and Tell Sneak Attack into play and Sneak in Griselbrand draw 7 for a Petal, play Petal through Thalia and Sneak in my Emrakul in hand. He gets board wiped but he has DRS and Guildmage in play for the next turn. He has blocked Emrakul so he is still alive. Next turn I draw Pyroclasm although I already have the Echoing Truth to bounce his Guildmage and Sneak in for the Win.

Round 3: U/R Delver

Game 1: I get a turn 3 Show and Tell into Griselbrand with a Counter Back up and that's Game. I never drew 7 cards just Lifelinked him to death.

Game 2: I get a 3rd turn Defense Grid which surprisingly resolves and I Sneak in a few turns later.

Round 4: Boros Burn

Game 1: Turn 2 Show and Tell Emrakul at 16 Life :)

Game 2: I open with 2 Leyline of Sanctity (BETTER LUCKY THAN GOOD!) Turn 2 Show and Tell Emrakul and I Force of Will his newly drawn Ensnaring Bridge.

Round 5: Death and Taxes (mrjumbo03)

Game 1: I get locked out by Mother, Thalia, Karakas then he Vials in Mangara and I scoop.

Game 2: I get a Turn 4 Through the Breach with 2 Sol Lands I think and Eliminate his board. We play draw go for a long time but I already have Sneak Attack in play. After 3 Ponders and 2 Brainstorms I finally top deck Emrakul again when facing lethal as I Force his first 2 Attempts at a Creature and he lands one finally with me having no counters! Bazaar of Moxen? lol

Game 3: I Show and Tell Griselbrand and he lays down a Batterskull. He has Thalia I think and I thought he didn't have Karakas but he plays it on his Turn and Bounces Griselbrand. I draw 6 of course :) I have dealt myself like 9 damage already (Ancient Tomb and Griselbrand) and he does 7. I Through the Breach Emrakul next turn but he has 7 Permanents (Stupid Germ Token!) and the last Phyrexian Revoker kills me.

Round 6: UW Fish

Game 1: Turn 2 Show and Tell Emrakul with Force of Will Back up. He can't race that.

Game 2: No Vial turn 1 this time and he doesn't really get a clock except 2 Mutavaults. I have no combo until like turn 7? I play Defense Grid with a lot of open mana and he burns his Force of Will. When he plays Lord and Silvergill I Pyroclasm them out. I play Sneak Attack and we both play Draw Go for a while with me nearly facing lethal. I finally draw an Emrakul and swing and he scoops despite being alive at 4 Life and no permanents.

Round 7: UWR Patriot (Draw)

ID into Top 8

Quarterfinals: Grixis Show and Know (Super Epic Matches!)

Game 1:

Game 2:

Game 3:

Semifinals: UWR Patriot

Game 1: Turn 3 Show and Tell with Force of Will and Misdirection Back up. He also had 2 Force of Wills but I win the counter war to put Down Emrakul and win.

Game 2: He goes turn 2 Stoneforge into Sword of Feast and Famine? I Pyroclasm with City of Traitors and my mountain this was a misplay I think as I was playing around Daze but City of Traitors died later on and I couldn't ramp into Daze Protection and Spell Pierce protection for my combo I had a lot of Lands in hand that's why I risked losing the City. My Show and Tell gets Dazed, Show and Tell gets Force'd and I die to 3 Swings of Geist of St. Traft.

Game 3: He goes turn 2 Meddling Mage, I of course burn all my fetches to avoid Stifle. For a lot of turns he just has Meddling Mage (Show and Tell) which gets me down to around 10. I decide to Pyroclasm it and he Forces. At this point I already have a lot of lands like 6 mana? I lay down Defense Grid and he burns his other Force of Will. I have only 2 Griselbrands and no enablers but I have a 2nd Pyroclasm. He still has no clock and I cast the 2nd Pyroclasm to kill the lone threat he had. I was down to 7 at this point. I play Sneak Attack with 7 open mana. He Brainstorms, Spell Pierces, Dazes but I pay all of the tax counters and Sneak Attack resolves but i can't activate it. Next turn Sneak Griselbrand swing for life and draw 7. Next turn Sneak both Emra and Grisel :) End of the game he shows me a Flusterstorm and a Pyroblast which he can't use :)

Finals: Punishing Jund

Prize split since it's already midnight :)

Won 4 Force of Will and a Bayou had a really great night with Magic.

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In behalf of blindspotxxx:

Our Game 3:
The turns that matters;

My turn:
Me: Cast Thoughtseize
Him: Hard cast Misdirection - Misdirect Thoughtseize to me
Me: Force of Will (pitching Ponder) on Misdirection
Him: Cast Pyroblast to Force of Will
Me: Flusterstorm on Misdirection - He has 3 mana open
(Thoughtseize resolves)
Me: Looking at 1 Force of Will, 1 Spell Pierce and 1 Through the Breach - I took Spell Pierce.
( I have 1 Force of Will, 1 Burning Wish, 1 Show and Tell and 1 Emrakul, Aeons of Torn in my hand. I have 4 mana open in play.)
Me: Cast Show and Tell into Emrakul, the Aeons of Torn.

His turn:
Him: Top deck Griselbrand. Cast Through the Breach drop Griselbrand. Draw 7, his down to 7 life. Cast Sneak Attack, 1 Lotus Petal open. Attack Griselbrand, I block with Emrakul. He gain 7 life and pass the turn.

My turn:
Me: Draw Volcanic Island. Play land (Volcanic Island), Cast Burning Wish (supposed to get Eye of Nowhere to bounce his Sneak Attack) but he counter it with Force of Will pitching a blue card I forgot. Attack my Emrakul, after annahilating 6 permanents (he sacrifice all his lands) he Sneak Griselbrand into play. Draw 7 cards - his down to 6 life after - block my Emrakul - gain 7 life. His left with 1 permanent in play - Sneak Attack - he has more than 7 cards in hand at the end of my turn.

His turn:
Him: Top deck an Emrakul, fetch a mountain then Sneak Emrakul. I have 7 permanents in play and was down to 13 with no blocker. GG


Congrats again. IMO Blindspotxxx is the best Sneak Attack player in our Legacy community. I lost to him before that's why I was afraid that I had to face him in the Quarterfinals.

I took S&S to a tourney last night with about 20 players and ended 4-0.
For reference my list hasn't changed since the Milwaukee Open (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=55038). Yes, I realize the rules have changed a bit and Karakas is ALOT worse for me now, but I have not played ANY magic since then and it completely slipped my mind until the middle of round 1.

Round 1
Merfolk
This guy was running a "classic" list complete with Standstills.

Round 2
TES (I think, I have not looked at the thread in AGES)
This list packed access to BURG and ran Past in Flames as its only engine. His list also included Probes.

Round 3
Miracles
This seemed like a standard UWr Miracles list with Elspeth.

Round 4
Mirror
This deck was fairly idential to mine with the exception of the sideboard plan. He essentially tried to ignore me and simply race with me by leaving in SnT and Petals.

After 4 rounds I learned that Karakas is ehh now although it can still be really handy with Clique and to save our fatties at EOT.

Also Misdirect was not nearly as good as I kept hoping it would be. Between last night and the Open I only got to abuse it 2 times and only once would really have mattered.

What is everyone's thoughts on ditching Misdirect for something else? Any suggestions? I like the idea of maintaining the control count where it is, I was thinking of swapping in V-Cliques to the main and then retooling the board.

I am planning on swaping out the Grids for Leyline of Sanctity.

Congrats to Blindspot. Your report was entertaining to read. It is funny, how you didn't listen to a word I said and still succeeded. Anyways, everyone's ladder of success is different and unique because we all are individuals and have different beliefs. What works for you may not work for me. Props to you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dcosiem

Congrats to Blindspot. Your report was entertaining to read. It is funny, how you didn't listen to a word I said and still succeeded. Anyways, everyone's ladder of success is different and unique because we all are individuals and have different beliefs. What works for you may not work for me. Props to you.

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Thanks! Glad you were entertained. My reasoning for Flusterstorm is that I view it as a defensive spell. Obviously if your opponent no longer has any counters and you play this then it protects your spell but that same goes for any counterspell. Defense Grid is an artifact which means that it gets through Pyroblast and Flusterstorms that RUG,Patriot or Control will board in against you. Also with Flusterstorm you need to have another piece of mana which could have been used to cast something else or pay a daze. This is my belief and reasoning that's why I didn't follow your advice.

Probably to each his own. What did you remove to be playing Gitaxian Probes? The preordain?

I removed 2 Intuition and 2 extra counter spells. I used to run 10 counterspells in the main, which consist of 4 Fow, 3 Spell Pierce, and 3 Misdirection. The reason I switched to this version below because I was simply losing to games that I shouldn't lose to, but I was winning against games that I shouldn't be winning against. At a small local tournament with my old setup, I made top 4 out of 42 people with swiss, cut to top 8. I lost to some random affinity deck to not make into the final round. I demolished Elves, Esperblade, Ant, UW Mircales, and Dream Halls omnitell U. I drew to Reanimator. With this new list, I'm beating decks I should be beating, but more or less lose to, sometimes, to decks I shouldn't necessarily be winning against. This version I guarantee you is more fun then any version I've ever played. I still hate Leyline, but there isn't really any other options against discard.

Here is my list. It's a darn good list in my opinion.

4 Lotus Petal
4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack
2 Ancient Tomb
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
2 City of Traitors
4 Preordain
4 Daze
2 Gitaxian Probe
SB: 2 Blood Moon
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 2 Through the Breach
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 3 Defense Grid

I will agree that it looks more fun :) I'll give it a whirl when playing casual, gitaxian probe looks like the nuts before going off lol

4 sneak atack
4 show and tell
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 force of will
2 spell pierce
2 flusterstorm
2 misdirection
2 senseis divining top
4 lotus petal
4 griselbrand
4 enrakul the aeons torn
3 island
1 mountain
2 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
4 scalding tarn
3 ancient tomb
2 city of traitors
3 volcanic island

side
4 leyline of sancticity
2 pyroblast
1 red elemental blast
2 defense grid
2 echoing truth-wipe away
4 pyroclasm

Thats the list I have been playing since the legends rule. Working prety good.
But I havent played much shardless bug and some other decks lately.

I still want opinions on some cards and sideboards.

Im thinking cutting both misdirection for other flusterstorm and spell pierce. This makes the reanimator and storm matchup better. But less good vs tempo due to missdirection being a free counter. And the blowout on hymn. But being better overall.
Opinions?

In side Im still doubing on the wipe away or echoing truth.
Echoing is better vs agro wich i board in taking out countermagic. But wipe away costs more mana, dont bounces cards that are equal. But this happens rarely. But wipe can bounce cards like karakas, maze of ith, omniscense, o ring on the monster, and hatebeats without fear or mother of runes or so and can trick an infernal tutor.

Now on sideboarding plans.
Vs shardless bug. What u take usualy out? Is pyroclasm worth? It destroys all crearures only not goyf. But his creatures usualy are not fast enought or good enought vs us so we should only worry about notion thief or vendilion. But this is solved with 3 REB so. I would like to side 4 leyline and 3 REB.
But what you ppl would take out usualy for like this 7 cards?

Against patriot.
U like to put in pyroclasm? It eats all his guys. But im already sidding in 3 reb 2 grid. Taking out 4 petals and one pierce or ponder. But how many clasm? What other cards take out?

That all for now.
Thanks^^

Against patriot.
U like to put in pyroclasm? It eats all his guys. But im already sidding in 3 reb 2 grid. Taking out 4 petals and one pierce or ponder. But how many clasm? What other cards take out?

You take out mana sources versus tempo decks? I usually take out the Intuition, Spell Pierces, one Emrakul, some Misdirections and side in Pyroblast, Defense Grid, Pyroclasm and Through the Breach.

The only matchup I board out Lotus Petals is versus Control Decks.

Since 3-4 years i play constantly sneak atack i board petals out vs control.
They seem in theory really good.
But lots of times (for myself) u try to combo with help of petals And lose the counterwar. Then u have no other oportunity to combo. Cause u used your counters and ur extra mana. I prefer to lay down extra lands and then combo again. For example i think mosdirection is a great counter vs tempo cause is hard counter without needing mana so u can better pay for taxation counters of him.

Just my way of playing.
Only leave petals vs other combo (and not always) and vs agro.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Togores

Since 3-4 years i play constantly sneak atack i board petals out vs control.
They seem in theory really good.
But lots of times (for myself) u try to combo with help of petals And lose the counterwar. Then u have no other oportunity to combo. Cause u used your counters and ur extra mana. I prefer to lay down extra lands and then combo again. For example i think mosdirection is a great counter vs tempo cause is hard counter without needing mana so u can better pay for taxation counters of him.

Just my way of playing.
Only leave petals vs other combo (and not always) and vs agro.

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i agree. control matchups are typically longer and you sculpt your hand so winning quickly isn't great. I sideboard petals out instead and never miss them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apple713

i agree. control matchups are typically longer and you sculpt your hand so winning quickly isn't great. I sideboard petals out instead and never miss them.

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When i meant control i meant also tempo.
All decks with some counters and so are control.
Sorry for the mistake.

I meant i take petals vs control, agrocontrol and tempo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Togores

When i meant control i meant also tempo.
All decks with some counters and so are control.
Sorry for the mistake.

I meant i take petals vs control, agrocontrol and tempo.

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Doesn't the extra mana from lotus petal negate his counters? Daze and Spell Pierce? That's my belief in the match up.

Yes, but only if u succed and win the counterwar. If not you fall to much behind and can not win anymore. Thats the reason.

I guess to each his own. Doesn't the match up involved sculpting a counter war ready hand? If you usually lose the counter war then you've lost. You can spam your spare copies of Show and Tell and Sneak Attack to let them use their counters then go to town on the key spell you want to resolve. With a lot of mana you just have to think about Force of Will and Pyroblast as the other soft counters will be negated by your petals. I have someone told me that I should also shave petals for the Tempo Matchups but I didn't listen lol I'm just to afraid of getting Wastelanded and Dazed all day.

Petal is terrible against taxing decks.

You are First TELLING them if you can or can't pay.

Second you are giving up alternatives such as Defense Grid against RUG

Third Petal grants one where as Pierce costs you two so it will not pay for Pierce.

The only time Petal is good is in the early game when you are trying to rush them, however being a combo deck against control we are best suited to sculpt our hand.

I consider Defense Grid a straight upgrade against control over Petal. We can do both before comboing but one puts alot more weight in our corner from the time we cast it until we win.

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Originally Posted by nodahero

Petal is terrible against taxing decks.

You are First TELLING them if you can or can't pay.

Second you are giving up alternatives such as Defense Grid against RUG

Third Petal grants one where as Pierce costs you two so it will not pay for Pierce.

The only time Petal is good is in the early game when you are trying to rush them, however being a combo deck against control we are best suited to sculpt our hand.

I consider Defense Grid a straight upgrade against control over Petal. We can do both before comboing but one puts alot more weight in our corner from the time we cast it until we win.

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When did I give up Defense Grid? lol

Telling them doesn't matter Daze is dead whether they like or not if you have spare mana sources.

I know spell pierce taxes 2, that's not the issue of spell pierce vs lotus petal, it's about having a ramp of land drops and petal drops that can make a difference. That's my approach rather than fight them with Misdirection and Spell Pierce of our own which I board out in favor of Defense Grids and Pyroblasts.

Of course the best ideal scenario is fetching basics, making a lot of land drops rather than Petals but with 19 lands in the deck, Stifles and Wastelands from them I'm not sure if Petal is worth it or not.

Basically it's 2 Spell Pierce and 2 Misdirection vs 4 Lotus Petals for the slot. (Boarding in 2 Pyroblast and 2 Defense Grid)

With basic handsculpting it's mana light which your lands can afford. So the only time you would need to burst the petals is for the final counter war. Still, input is appreciated maybe I'm doing it wrong but I've been beating tempo recently lol Daze definitely shines here

Perhaps yet again we come to a diverengence in play style. I board out my Petals for Defense Grid.

I would make them pay ALOT more then me get a measly one free mana. To me, it appears rather elementary that Defense Grid is better then Petal.
Petal gets you a net of one mana a single time. Defense Grid will net you an unknown amount of mana depending on your opponents game plan.

OCCASIONALLY Defense Grid will sit and do nothing but at that point Petal would be worth as much.

I genuninely can't think of a situation where Petal is outright better then Grid unless you are in the first 2 to 3 turns or faced with to much pressure that you can't spare 2 mana or 1 turn to win.

I have found myself in alot more situation where I could use the extra tax on them more then I needed 1 more turn or mana.

Additionall I think Daze is a HAIR better then Petal and I am on the fence about Spell Pierce vs Petal for which is stronger for us to have access to game 2 and 3.