[Deck] Pox

OK guys. Play SDT. Tell me how you feel having 1 less mana for "card quality" in a deck with no synergy with SDT. You'll be keeping yourself and your opponent at 3 mana or less the majority of the game. Sinkhole helps with this, and if they aren't cracking fetches just to dodge Sinkhole, it's at least partially doing its job. Volrath's Dungeon is basically what Plow Under was in standard. Your opponent had better pay those 5 life (which is equivalent to 1 swing of stalker) or he's screwed. Urborg allows you to cope better with Wisps and other black heavy cards. In fact, wisps only requires Smallpox's amount of black mana. Jace has been "solved" by Factories for a while in my experience. Just two swings to kill it means they only gain 2 CA. It also means that your poxes are more effective. Obviously you don't play pox if there's no tempo or card advantage to be gained. But situations like that are called "you're winning".

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Originally Posted by Amon Amarth

The more I think about the better Pox gets. NO RUG and Stoneblade seem ill-equipped to handle all of the disruption that this deck has at it's disposal. Both rely on specific spells resolving and sticking and are ill equipped to attrition you out when you are able to keep up the pressure with Liliana. Liliana is insane because no one is playing Spell Pierce. Yeah, they can Force her but FoW is pretty bad against any deck that packs Hymn to Tourach. I'm officially excited. Pox looks like it can be a really player in the post-Innistrad metagame. It doesn't hurt that I'm in love with mono-black either. :)

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I agree. I've been testing the list I posted a few pages back (with a few changes, swapped Rack for Crucible, added some Factories), and it's looking very promising. It has enough disruption to not roll to combo, esp. with Misstep, and creature-based decks are generally an easy win. It's probably Tier II at best, but it can definitely hold it's own in the field.

i do not want to come off rude or insulting, so please do not take this that way - but a few of you sound like you know about Magic the gathering, but not playing a Pox deck.

i rarely have only 3 mana, in fact, on more than the slight occasion i find myself upset, that i do not run corrupt in the stupid deck. it is not like your playing a Pox every few turns. there are only 4 in a deck, and Smallpox is worthless. Smallpox is a slower Edict spell. i do not care about letting my opponent pick a card from his hand, and i certainly do not care about my opponent choose their least valuable land in mid game.

people, Pox will take you to mid game, always. it is also a less effective form of control than blue. simply because Wizard's of the Coast hates Black. it is a fact. you are never going to win quickly, and Pox that is not splashed with a color will always get overrun.

most decks that run creatures as the win condition, run about 20. with Pox, if you run 4 edict spells, 4 pox, 4 Smallpox that is only 12 creature removal. they have 8 more creatures left. decks where Progentitus is the win condition, will almost always have a way to get around choose and sacrifice spells, the answer is a second creature. this is not out of the question, they run up to 11, and unless they are complete idiots, should be able to work around you.
Hand disruption, 4 Duress, 4 Hymn, 4 Pox, 4 Smallpox. that is 12, which is a decent hand disruption count, wish it could be 20, but IOK, Therapy, and thought seize, would leave you vulnerable. you cannot have too many things, of one thing. we now have 20 card slots taken up.
you need a win condition, and because Pox is slower than most decks you need at least 8 slots devoted to a win of some sorts. Personally i like the Leyline combo right now.
here is why.
Zoo, NO RUG, Reanimate, Dredge, all rely either heavily or just somewhat in being able to use their graveyard. my favorite card in Magic is an opponents 0/1 Tarmogoyf, it is what someone gets for being so pompous. but any who, for me, that is 8 cards in my slot, 12 to go. i run 4 Vampire Hexmage for Planeswalkers. 3 Ensnaring Bridge because it stops every creature deck and almost every deck runs creatures. i have 5 slots left, 1 SDT, 2 Reanimate, 4 Dark Ritual. i run 18 swamps.

4 pox
4 Damnation
4 Geth's verdict
4 Dark rituals
4 Duress
4 hymn to Tourach
4 Vampire hexmage
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Reanimate
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
4 helm of Obedience
18 Swamp

I do not mess around with Mana with this deck, it is mostly useless. i used to use manlands, but i really do not find they do any real significant damage to my opponent.
my sideboard varies.
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Dark Depths
are the only staples that never change per metagame. the Depths is basically, because i have half the combo main boarded, and against decks that are not creature heavy, i just board out Ensnaring Bridges.

i used to be high on Zombie Infestation, i like the idea of being able to produce random 2/2s but it is unfortunately slow. even too slow for this deck.

the reason i use one SDT is for two reasons, A: i only own one. and B: even if i owned a play set, the thought of me ever drawing a second one would infuriate me. so i just leave it to a simple one of.

SDT is probably the best card printed for a Pox deck since, Duress. when a Pox deck enters top deck mode, it is awful.

SDT takes you out of top deck phase. and gives you a card advantage. it cost one to activate, usually on their turn. And when The mind Sculptor hits the board, it is less of an advantage to them, because you have more options then.

Off topic, how can blue control have Jace, The Mind Sculptor, but i cannot have Yawgmoth's Will?

i post different variations of Pox, this one is closest to the actual deck i run.

of course it may or may not change next month when Liliana comes out. still not concerned with how i feel about her. i do know if i spend 140 on her, and she doesnt work out, i will be righteously upset.

What the pros don't realize is that 18 lands is all you need if you mana weave.

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Originally Posted by iamfrightenedtoo

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There are some points that you bring up that I agree with and some that I don't. I do agree with you in regards to Sensei's Divining Top, so much so that I would definitely play 2 of. I feel that 1 of makes it too hard to find and when I need it I can't get it. I think 2 is definitely the correct number, even going up to 3 if I have more suffle effects. I think you just NEED it post pox when everything is empty and all you have left to play with is the top of your library.

I disagree with what you said about creature removal, because often bigPox removes more than 1 creature whether it is in play or in their hand. Also, your Hymn to Tourachs often catches a creature or two, so I think the amount of creature removal in the form of Innocent Blood + smallPox + bigBox. I STRONGLY disagree with your hand disruption build as hand disruption is generally a terrible topdeck once your Pox and Hymn to Tourachs have done their earlier job. I think the maximum hand disruption you should ever run alongside bigPox and smallPox is probably 8 (something and 4 hymns).

I have seen the Leyline + Helm combo before, but I find that it was way too difficult to actually find. Especially in your build where you only play with 1 Sensei's Divining Top and 0 Tutors, not to mention those cards alone are generally terrible. Basically as a win-con, they don't have much synergy with the rest of the deck.

I think a better wincon is Contamination and Bitterblossom/Nether Spirit/Crucibles + Mishra's factory because cutting off their mana source is awesome, and those cards on their own aren't terrible. You have a big weakness to black making your 4 Contaminations rather dead, but that's the same as 4 dead Helm of Obediences...

What the pros don't realize is that SDT is actually the best removal spell of the game and isn't card disadvantage in pox. /sarcasmz

Ok, anyways, let's do the math here:
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
4 Liliana
4 Turn 1 Hand Disruption
4 Hymn to Tourach
All of the above hit creatures (unless you're talking about duress). I think that your problem is that YOU haven't actually played much legacy or pox iamfrightenedtoo. Sinkhole/Wasteland/Crucible/Pox/Smallpox keep the opponent low on mana so you can win (if you run sinkhole/wasteland). Pox, Wasteland and Smallpox tend to keep you low on mana too. Opponents don't start the game with every creature in their deck in their hand.

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Originally Posted by bowvamp

Ok, anyways, let's do the math here:
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
4 Liliana
4 Turn 1 Hand Disruption
4 Hymn to Tourach
All of the above hit creatures (unless you're talking about duress). I think that your problem is that YOU haven't actually played much legacy or pox iamfrightenedtoo. Sinkhole/Wasteland/Crucible/Pox/Smallpox keep the opponent low on mana so you can win (if you run sinkhole/wasteland). Pox, Wasteland and Smallpox tend to keep you low on mana too. Opponents don't start the game with every creature in their deck in their hand.

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Sinkhole, wasteland, Crucible, Pox, Smallpox, you stated before you would Run 4 Liliana, 4 IOK/thought seize(turn one hand distruption, 4 Hymn to Tourach
that is 28 slots. with 12 to 12 1/2 to go. i assume you run another Edict spell of some kind, either geth's verdict( my persona favorite) Innocent blood, or Diabolic Edict. but you run Wasteland, and that takes away from black mana (which the deck only runs black mana) so that takes away slots too.
what are you using to win? 8 creatures? so your hoping that after all the removal you still have creatures and they do not?

i need to find a search card that fits in this deck. i just hate all the cards that are Legacy legal. i like Desperate Research. it is not as bad as people would like to make it. you only get access to 7 cards, and must RFG the ones you did not name. but this deck does not rely too much on graveyard, (my build) crucible players and there mana base would disagree. but when you need your win condition you no longer need your graveyard, unless your graveyard is apart of the win condition.

Pox is not a win condition, it is the control. sure it does the most damage, and that is what i used to use it for, but the control is what we are looking for.
aggro pox players rely on the damage.
i have gone the Aggro Pox route, it doesnt do well.

You can look at my list if you want to know about my card choices iamfrightenedtoo. For the record, I've made a couple changes by now.

1 Necroplasm
1 Nihilith
3 Tombstalker
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Mental Misstep
4 Pox
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Mishra's Factory
11 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
//I use Liliana Vess as my substitute in Cockatrice
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Thoughtseize
1 Marsh Flats

The main advantage of this list vs. the previous one is the single Marsh Flats. This allows me to gain virtual card advantage with a Crucible in play. I've also refined my discard section, as I found (unsurprisingly) Thoughtseize was the best discard in the current meta. Note the lack of dedicated creature kill. I don't mind taking a ton of damage because of the way Pox works. Yes, I do depend on only 8 creatures as my win-cons. Is this weird? I think it's pretty common even with tempo decks (which arguably will have a harder time supporting their creatures than Pox). Also notice that unless there's gy hate or StP that's directed towards it, Necroplasm is very easily recurred.

Necroplasm was pretty sweet against Threshold, and isn't too bad at killing Germ tokens, then Merfolk 2 drops. :D I wouldn't run more than 1 however, it's an awful creature at killing.

Why don't you run Inquisition instead of Thoughtseize? I have never wanted to take a creature instead of a spell/artifact. Smallpox, Pox, Lilliana, Mishra's Factory, and Innocent Blood cover those pretty well. IoK also usually takes the smaller creatures too. It's inferior to Duress for this deck, but balances out with taking creatures that makes it really good.

I like the SDT idea, I'll try out a list with 2 added. Contamination is another good idea, I would incorporate it with Bitterblossom and Bloodghast.

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Originally Posted by rukcus

Necroplasm was pretty sweet against Threshold, and isn't too bad at killing Germ tokens, then Merfolk 2 drops. :D I wouldn't run more than 1 however, it's an awful creature at killing.

Why don't you run Inquisition instead of Thoughtseize? I have never wanted to take a creature instead of a spell/artifact. Smallpox, Pox, Lilliana, Mishra's Factory, and Innocent Blood cover those pretty well. IoK also usually takes the smaller creatures too. It's inferior to Duress for this deck, but balances out with taking creatures that makes it really good.

I like the SDT idea, I'll try out a list with 2 added. Contamination is another good idea, I would incorporate it with Bitterblossom and Bloodghast.

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Actually, I've played Necroplasm. He's really sweet on paper, but in practice, he rarely does any good as your opponent will surely remove him before he activates end of turn to blow up their critters.

Yeah, the list I run plays 4x contaminations, 4x bitterblossom (best card to go with contamination as swords to plowshare doesn't screw you over, 2x entomb, 1x nether spirit.. but bloodghast just seems better.. I've been itching to try it, but the deck is pretty tight, so I can't really play 4 bloodghasts.

Bloodghast was an expensive play test, a play test that failed.
it gets STP'd or Path to Exiled. it rarely does anything, it gets blocked by creatures with bigger toughness than its power, and you cannot block with it.
it is useless.

Necroplasm does the same thing, they make me go fetch a swamp from a PTE, the counterbalance to Tarmogoyf, although is cost one more, and gets killed easier. not to mention it has to be out for three turns before you can get a two casting cost creature.
i do like the dredge ability, but i do not run Crucible pox.

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Originally Posted by iamfrightenedtoo

Bloodghast was an expensive play test, a play test that failed.
it gets STP'd or Path to Exiled. it rarely does anything, it gets blocked by creatures with bigger toughness than its power, and you cannot block with it.
it is useless.

Necroplasm does the same thing, they make me go fetch a swamp from a PTE, the counterbalance to Tarmogoyf, although is cost one more, and gets killed easier. not to mention it has to be out for three turns before you can get a two casting cost creature.
i do like the dredge ability, but i do not run Crucible pox.

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Yeah, that's why I didn't test it, because it was expensive... yeah my nether spirit eats plows all day long... that's why I play entomb to bring him in when my contamination is already online.

counterbalance to tarmogoyf? what are you talking about?

Necroplasm IS NOT just theoretical. He's also not just creature removal. If he hits every time he swings, it's 3 mana for 9 damage. If he can't hit cause they have a blocker up or something, at least he wipes the board and grows to be 4/4. Contamination honestly blows. Hard. It's horrible card disadvantage, and it only works against lands. That means that hierarch & bop negate it. If they've got stuff down already it doesn't work. Basically, the definition of win-more.

People have to realize that Pox is not very gy dependent. All of my cards still work w/o my gy after sb (and most of the time, if my opponent hasn't complained aboyt "gy decks" or asked me what "my plan is after gy hate comes in", I just leave in crucibles).

Also, I have no idea what you said, iamfrightenedtoo.

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Originally Posted by jin

Yeah, that's why I didn't test it, because it was expensive... yeah my nether spirit eats plows all day long... that's why I play entomb to bring him in when my contamination is already online.

counterbalance to tarmogoyf? what are you talking about?

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how does Nether Spirit get around an STP or Path to exile? or were you talking about Nether Spirit gets hit by STP all day long.

and counterbalance to Tarmogoyf means. Tarmogoyf is pretty overpowered, a lot of monoblack players use NEcroplasm to balance out the power of zoo, or decks that rely on Tarmogoyf.

Decks that rely almost solely on Tarmogoyf get owned by pox pretty hard. 'cuz they're Threshold variants. Zoo's reach can be troublesome, but their creatures don't come down fast enough to be as big of a deal as vial goblins. I know it's still a bad matchup, but stop acting like it's the worst one. I still don't see how counterbalance fits in...:~o

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Originally Posted by bowvamp

Decks that rely almost solely on Tarmogoyf get owned by pox pretty hard. 'cuz they're Threshold variants. Zoo's reach can be troublesome, but their creatures don't come down fast enough to be as big of a deal as vial goblins. I know it's still a bad matchup, but stop acting like it's the worst one. I still don't see how counterbalance fits in...:~o

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i apologize for using the word counterbalance. i do not mean the card, i mean the word.
Necroplasm, is a counterbalance to Tarmogoyf. because Tarmogoyf is a huge problem, Necroplasm is a decent card to play against it.

and zoo is plenty fast. it is actually really fast.
assume they can play a creature every turn, or assume they can play a creature with each mana they can produce. this is not hard to assume, it happens more than it doesnt.

turn one is one creature, turn two is two to three creatures on the board. turn three they can have up to six, and each of the new zoo creatures are 2-3 power. at max they deal 18 damage on their 4th turn, while already dealing up to 6-9 damage. on turn 3.

this obviously is their best case scenario. you can also assume while playing pox, your going to have a small pox, pox, Edict spell (not you Bowvamp, you dont play edict spells) but a pox or small pox is good enough for this. at most even with a either pox, and an edict spell, you still do not clear their board, and you make it so your life total is easier to overcome you.

zoo is fast.
lucky for us though, not many people run zoo anymore, the meta game is dominated by RUG and NO RUG variants.
Progentitus decks are easy to deal with. their counterspells are annoying, but their creatures are easy enough to deal with. if you run ensnaring bridge, if not, they can be bothersome.

JAce though, i cannot stress enough, if a Jace hits the board, a mono black pox player cannot deal with it.
which is why i run Vampire Hexmage.

I saw something similar to this a few pages back and I'm going to put this together for some fun. Definitely pox, but hopefully will run like a black sligh instead of heavy control. ~$75 to boot.

4 Cabal Pit
4 Death's Shadow
4 Dark Ritual
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Pox
4 Raven's Crime
4 Smallpox
4 Snuff Out
4 Street Wraith
4 The Rack

15 Swamp
1 Tomb of Urami

4 Faerie Macabre
3 ?
4 Massacre
4 Vampire Hexmage

It's tempting to drop 500 dollars and commit to this gimmick in what is already a pet deck destined to be mediocre, but I'm going to start budget and see how it goes.

Obviously:
Dismember
Thoughtseize
Tombstalker
Mox Diamond
Fetch and shock lands for ridiculous splash/thinning such as Pernicious Deed or Vindicate

Maybe but Unlikely:
Draw 4s
Infernal Tutor
Bloodghast
Dark Depths
Grim Discovery
Lurking Enchantments
Geth's Verdict
Wasteland
Pain lands for budget splash such as Krosan Grip, Blightning, or Lim-Dûl's Vault

Never:
Dark Confidant
Necroplasm
Crucible of Worlds
Bitterblossom - did not work out so well in testing

Suggestions?

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Originally Posted by bowvamp

Necroplasm IS NOT just theoretical. He's also not just creature removal. If he hits every time he swings, it's 3 mana for 9 damage. If he can't hit cause they have a blocker up or something, at least he wipes the board and grows to be 4/4. Contamination honestly blows. Hard. It's horrible card disadvantage, and it only works against lands. That means that hierarch & bop negate it. If they've got stuff down already it doesn't work. Basically, the definition of win-more.

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have you even played necroplasm before? he begins as a 1/1 and the turn it can swing, it is a 2/2.. everything can block and kill a 2/2 in today's format... next turn, he's a 3/3 if he lived through the other turn, but 3/3 is dreadfully tiny for 3 mana and by that time, they arleady have somewhat of a fatty on the table.. this is turn 5, and you only have a 3/3.. think about that... turn 6, he's finally a 4/4, and you might decide he can swing and live to tell about it.. but then he dies end of turn and then you have to dredge him to bring him back to kill a 1cmc drop that would have dropped after turn 4, or a 2 drop after turn 5, so you see.. it's not that fast or great after all..

contamination has some weaknesses against elves, but that's why you play creature removal. it's significantly superior to sinkhole.

LOL, win-more is not defined by a card that doesn't win you the game.. because there are plenty of cards that does that. contamination is a lock piece like bloodmoon, choke or back to basics except it affects all lands. It's mana denial and compared with sinkhole, it is superior.

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Originally Posted by iamfrightenedtoo

how does Nether Spirit get around an STP or Path to exile? or were you talking about Nether Spirit gets hit by STP all day long.

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Contamination.. end of turn entomb. or untap upkeep entomb.. feed contamination.. they cannot make W

I think if I had the good fortune of owning entombs I would just play reanimator.

How has the Missteps been working out for you Bowvamp?