No Chain of Vapor and Words of Wisdom SB? Why?
Also, how do you sideboard in combo/aggrocontrol/other matchups?
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No Chain of Vapor and Words of Wisdom SB? Why?
Also, how do you sideboard in combo/aggrocontrol/other matchups?
I am guessing that Stroke of Genius in Main and SB acts as the expensive Words of Wisdom...Quote:
Originally Posted by entity
Pro Player Oliver Oks piloted Solidarity to the 4th place at the sideevent of the Grand Prix Krakow (47 participants).
His Decklist: http://www.germagic.de/dc/deck.php?id=12018
he said that he is training for legacy at worlds.
(another Pro Player Remi Fortier made 1st place with NQG/r)
Very good. I read Markus Metzmacher's article on pmtg.de and thought that it was pretty good. He wrote about some of the matches at GP Krakow, including a round 7 match between Oks (Solidarity) and Sukaitis (Ug Threshold), which Oks manages to win 2-1. Good stuff.
I think some of his minor card choices were quite odd (Words of Wisdom is unnecessary, Gaea's Blessing doesn't make sense), but it looks like a solid deck overall.
After a lot of thinking I'm under the impression once again, that Solidarity should be quite strong in the current metagame. It's basically a combo control deck that can play 12 counterspells post board (FoW, Remand, and Disrupt), which should be enough to force faster combo into the midgame and win from there. The Threshold matchup is quite nice, as well if they don't play Counterbalance, because Stifle is just a minor annoyance and Tarmogoyfs are seldom bigger than 3/4. If Oliver Oks wants to pilot Solidarity at Worlds, good luck to him!
Edit:
I thought I'd translate part of Markus' report, since it is actually quite interesting.
It's basically Markus Metzmacher walking around at GP Krakow, watching the Legacy players, and covering the event for www.planetmtg.de. Markus is no die-hard Legacy player, but he usually attends our Legacy events in Düsseldorf, playing some unusual decks. He concentrates much more on the other formats (propably the reason why he didn't play at the side event), but he has a solid grip on the Legacy format.
Markus sits down next to Oliver Oks when the third match of round 7 starts. They are 1-1, and the next match will determine who makes T8 (not that important, because there were no T8 playoffs).
While shuffling, Oliver is joking around on how he managed to win game 2, eventhough he should have lost. Tomas Sukaitis explains to him that he usually only plays against people that can't pilot Solidarity very well. He is not very familiar with the match or the format. Oliver: "I can't believe that I could steal the win in the last game".
Game 3 begins with Tomas playing a Nimble Mongoose, which beats Oliver down to 15. Then he casts Werebear. In the meantime, Oliver fetched once, played some hand refinement and knows about two FoWs in Tomas' hand thanks to Peek.
He tries to cast Cunning Wish, which meets a FoW (remove Ponder).
The next turn, Oliver tries to combo off in Tomas attack step, playing High Tide. It resolves, but Thomas tries to counter Meditate with FoW, to which Oliver responds with Disrupt. Thanks to High Tide, Tomas is able to pay 1, but Oliver finds FoW himself and manages to force his Meditate through. Unfortunately, Oliver only finds Turnabout and three useless cards, so he passes the turn.
Tomas uses Wasteland on his own lands to gain Threshold and starts to bash face. Oliver gets down to three life and the extra turns are called. He fetches (down to two life), and uses Turnabout on Tomas' creatures to stay alive for one more turn. Tomas resolves a Counterbalance.
Than, in the fourth extra turn, Oliver tries to combo off again. Counterbalance only reveals a land, so his High Tide resolves after he Disrupts it himself and pays the 1 mana to cantrip. He draws Reset, plays it, and follows up with Meditate. Appearently, Tomas doesn't hold any more Counterspells. Meditate finds Peek, Island, Force of Will and Reset. He casts Peek, finds Cunning Wish and manages to combo off savely now, including Stroking himself for 18. He then counts Tomas library - 42 cards. He casts some Brainstorms and other cantrips and then casts Brain Freeze with storm: 13 - exactly 42 cards. After everything resolves, there are 3 cards left in Thomas library. There is some trouble with the judge, until they realize that Tomas only put 39 cards into his graveyard (Here Markus' writes that eventhough the judges didn't suspect anything, he felt that Thomas "forgot" to mill the last three cards on purpose. Pretty shady).
Well, Oliver taps down Tomas' creatures with Turnabout and Tomas scoops it up.
Oliver 2-1 Tomas
Solidarity, however, folds to black discard packing Hypnotic Specter. This says something: that if black with Specter gets played enough(which I believe it should, as Sui-Black is an easy deck to take to a tournament without testing, just like Boros was in Extended around the time of last Worlds, and see how many people played it! Also note that Sui Black is far cheaper than Boros in terms of $), Solidarity won't place well...
Good to see some activity here.
I am thinking about cutting 1 Impulse and the lone Twincast for either 2 Disrupt or 2 Fact or Fiction.
The first one would strengthen the early game: It acts as solid turn one play along side with Opt (i run 4).
The second one would strengthen the mid/lategame, it refills your hand after a counterwar or whatever.
Another option would be to run 4 Meditate main and one Fact side.
What are your thoughts?
As a side note, the lone Echoing Truth maindeck in his list is quit good, because of its versatility, but my biggest concern is, that it doesnt replace itself.
Three wishes is the best 4th maindeck Meditate I think.
okay, but Suicide Black is no upper tier imho. Assumed that pro player have access to all cards, why should they play Sui Black?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hummingbird TG
Sure, maybe someone will play it, but i dont think that lots of Pros come with Sui Black on worlds.
My intention is not to have another Meditate effect while comboing, but a way to refill my hand after heavy discard, excessive FoWing or whatever without losing a whole turn. More like Thin Twice in some lists :smile:
I don't think FoF would be a good idea in this deck. First of all FoF costs 4 mana, which is probably too much to efficiently cast it when comboing. If you get the opportunity to cast in before combo (which won't be often), it's generally a bad card too since your opponent gets to see what cards you pick, thus being able to predict what other cards in your hand (for example, if you pick a pile with Reset while there's a Tide/Meditate in the other, your opponent knows you probably have the card you put into your graveyard already).
I've been playing 3 Twincast mainboard for a while, in the place of 2 Peek. So far I've been liking it. It's very good vs. Thresh (we already knew that), it does well vs. the newer TES builds, since you can twincast Chant/Abeyance to counter them (Twincasting Infernal Tutor is nice too) and it does well vs. Sui Black or any other black decks with splashes, since you can slow them down (even more) by Twincasting a Hymn/Duress/Sinkhole/Whatever.
I didn't know Disrupt was good? I tought it had been removed from the board a long long time ago. Please explain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukas Preuss
First off, FoF pitches to FOW and can be shuffled away with BS if you draw it too early.Quote:
I don't think FoF would be a good idea in this deck. First of all FoF costs 4 mana, which is probably too much to efficiently cast it when comboing. If you get the opportunity to cast in before combo (which won't be often), it's generally a bad card too since your opponent gets to see what cards you pick, thus being able to predict what other cards in your hand (for example, if you pick a pile with Reset while there's a Tide/Meditate in the other, your opponent knows you probably have the card you put into your graveyard already).
Its there to represent a threat to control/aggro control PRE-combo (which happens to be a big weakness of this deck, because you cant draw many counters out of their hands, except with Tide+Remand).
As it can be a liability as you describe it, i wont happen very often that you draw all three key combo pieces at once. You cast it to gain card quantity, which can be filtered into card quality later on with BS.
On the other hand you can trick them into thinking that you lack a certain effect, be it draw, untap or whatever.
Which lead them to counter the certain effect and you simply cast your second one for example.
I was looking for more Remand-like effects, meaning counter + cantrip, but Disrupt is definitely to narrow to grant it a maindeck slot.Quote:
I didn't know Disrupt was good? I tought it had been removed from the board a long long time ago. Please explain.
My biggest concern with Twincast is, that it doesnt stop key threats like Bob, Counterbalance or Goyf and it doesnt replace itself.Quote:
I've been playing 3 Twincast mainboard for a while, in the place of 2 Peek. So far I've been liking it. It's very good vs. Thresh (we already knew that), it does well vs. the newer TES builds, since you can twincast Chant/Abeyance to counter them (Twincasting Infernal Tutor is nice too) and it does well vs. Sui Black or any other black decks with splashes, since you can slow them down (even more) by Twincasting a Hymn/Duress/Sinkhole/Whatever.
Your thoughts?
Sure. But that argument could be made for playing Vizzerdix in this deck as well. A 6/6 can be devastating, it pitches to FoW and if you draw it too early, you can shuffle it away with Brainstorm.Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlock
My point is, there is a huge difference between knowing absolutely no cards in your opponents hand and knowing a few. The only information your opponent has is the number of cards in your hand. That information is far from enough, since this deck can win with 3 cards in it's hand and 4 land too.Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlock
Control is definitely NOT the weak point of Solidarity. Also aggro-control can be troublesome, but that's not because of the counters. The thing that matters is the combination of counters, beats (meaning you're on a clock), and troublesome permanents like Counterbalance and Meddling Mage. Now a way to fight this is cardadvantage, true, but you don't want to pay 4 for that. FoF would be the ultimate card to Daze, and will usually come too late. Also, my argument above is very important here.
FoF and Peek don't deal with Bob balance and Goyf either. This card is here for a different reason. Twincast has amazing versitability (not sure about spelling). It can act as a second Tide or Reset, thus speeding up your combo, making it quite interesting vs. fast aggro like Goblins. Next to that, it does 'counter' some things, like obviously other counters, but also, as I mentioned, Chant and Abeyance.Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlock
Twincast doesn't replace itself, but cast on the right spell, it will never generate carddisadvantage. Cast it on a Duress, a counter, an opponent's draw spell etc. It's good in so many situations...
Don't forget that Twincast on Ill-gotten Gains allows the Solidarity player to go infinite with Twincast, High Tide, and any card that grabs win condition.
That is awesome!Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearSkies
But i have problems with Twincast, it is a card that could do everything, but it does nothing alone...
And sometimes i have a lot of untap and hightide stuff but now draw spell, or a lot of mediates and brainstorms but no reset...
If you have a hand consisting of multiple Tides, Meditates, and Opts/Brainstorms, you should still have a fair chance at going off, as the draw spells are likely to dig you into an untap spell. Twincast can copy the Meditate here if you've got the mana on your initial burst to give you a huge dig for the untapper.Quote:
Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu
If you have the Tides and the Resets but no draw (Which is incredibly rare in a 4-Opt build) Twincast can sometimes copy an opponent's draw spell. I've gone off with these hands in response to Night's Whisper or some such nonsense fairly often.
For those who use Spell Snare in the sideboard, what you side out to put them in? Against *****, I usually take out 1 Twincast, 1 Remand and 2 Flash of Insight, but I'm sure these are not the best choices...
(actually, I have hard times selecting what to side out in almost every match... :confused: )
Same here...Though i can't imagine taking out flash of insight, except against GY hate(like iggy pop). It's too good, imho.Quote:
Originally Posted by lebarion
I finished with 6 points in 5 rounds at baltic legacy champs in Talinn. Sadly i wasn't able to playtest a deck enough and get all the cards needed(no opts...yuck). Might write a report later including all the fun stuff(car crash etc. :D ), if i'll find enought time. I won against SuiBlack and burn, lost to UG and UGr thresh(not that i made mistakes...i was very manascrewed, especially against UG - 3 lands game1 and 2 lands g2) and dredge with LED's. At least i haven't done any mistakes that would've costed me game.
is there anything we can do against dredge with LED's? Seems like we're too slow and don't have enough disruption.
We are indeed. I've done some testing, and you can definitely win this, but you HAVE to Force their discard outlet. If you manage to do that, they'll be stuck for ages with a full hand. Also, when I was running 3 Echoing Truth SB I just boarded them in to bounce their tokens and get myself 1 or 2 extra turns.Quote:
Originally Posted by entity
By the way, I'm not sure if it's good to board in Spell Snare at all vs. Thresh. Usually tough, the Remands should come out, since they are too slow.
I had some games with a Uw version of solidarity (splashing for abeyance MD and Orim SB) and i won 3-0. Their deck is quite unstable. Forcing a single spell can be game-breaking, as could be ETruthing their tokens. Also, they mill theirselves quite a bit, so comboing for 20 cards in resp to a deep analysis or a cephalid activation is usally enough. However, I don't know how's the matchup without abeyances and chants as they help a lot in buying some time.Quote:
Originally Posted by entity
The matchup's still pretty manageable without white. The biggest difference maker is how fast they can throw flashbacked Cabal Therapies at you. The chief Ichorid player in our metagame other than me doesn't maindeck Therapy (?) making this match a complete pushover.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenOne
I do agree with Bahamuth in that you have to Force very aggressively and force their chief discard outlet.