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Folks long time...
Soo since nph is going to change magic, i'm preparing a new list that is really insane! The lis will contain intuition the new green one phyrexian cmc card, finally we can tutor our combo pieces cards...
See you after nph release with my new list ;)
ps: how the wishless list goes?
You sure? Noxious revival right? That seems to have the same problem as Mystical Tutor did: card disadvantage. Still, I suppose with the newfound draw power of the wishless build, it might not be a big deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphus
I was also looking at Noxious Revival. It certainly has some potential it seems.
I've been stomping people with doomsday lately and had Solidarity sitting on the bench... it still seems about as well seated as it was though.
it's not a problem similar to Mystical because i was talking about intuition + the green card...
So you want...Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphus
2U
Pay 2 life: Mystical Tutor.
Looks pretty underpowered to me. Noxious Revival might be playable but I doubt it will be played along side intuition. Its just too slow for Legacy when we don't have good enough stall tactics...
Noxious Revival + Repeal, and/or Noxious Revival + Remand look like strong plays. It allows us to develop more land to sculpt harder before the combo turn, or just combo off if we have all the pieces.
However, its worth noting that Noxious Revival also enables us to get out a mana screw situation with a fetchland. Two lands is usually enough, turning on PtD and Impulse, or double cantrip.
The new free counter is going to give us a smaller headache than most of the combo decks. We rely on a 1cc card to go off... but we have the potential to shut down the opponents countermagic after a long chain of spells via Mindbreak Trap. We've never had issues with countermagic; only counterbalance and aggro that is faster than our combo turn. What will suck is having to deal with that countermagic out of color, like if Zoo were running it SB or MD. I don't know if Noxious Revival will help us here because we have to pay life and wait a turn (or cantrip into it) for the card we need. Maybe it would serve us better to be returning something like Tangle which would buy us enough time to sculpt a more reasonable hand. Noxious Revival + Tangle gives us a solid 4 turns to sculpt, however, Noxious Revival will void one of our draw steps and Tangle will sink 2 mana twice.
I didn't realize that. This does look like a good card, though same as you, I don't see any need to play Intuition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
Yeah it's the non-blue aggro decks running MM that I'm worried about. But the more I think about MM I realize it could weaken other combo more which would in turn weaken Counterbalance. Thus, MM might be a good thing for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
Well don't keep us waiting for to long with that new list of yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphus
Ive recently been testing the non-wish build, and find it simply easier to combo. But not really that much faster (although not having to wish for the card you need but simply drawing it make's it so that we do get there faster when we do combo)
Also, the matchup against decks running chalice and/or trinisphere becomes a lot worse. (since you can't just wish for rebuild...)
I do like my maindecked repeals, but it's a shame that it cant bounce chalice for 1...
4 high tide
3 meditate
4 reset
2 cunning wish
2 remand
2 mental misstep
2 nouxious revival
2 turnabout
2 repeal
4 brainstorm
4 opt
2 impulse
2 flash of insight
1 cryptic command
2 brain freeze
4 FOW
2 polluted
2 misty rainforest
2 scalding tarn
12 island
It has been a long time since playing this deck.
I just played it today for fun and i realized a play that I have not thought off before. Maybe you guys already have thought of it and maybe it is not such a good play but here goes:
How many times have you ended up in casting a Brainstorm and putting back lands? Well a BF on yourself can take care of that. You can actually leave some BF copies on the stack to mill lands from a second, third fourth Brainstorm.
Has anyone tried this? Is that a good play?
I do this rather often actually. I often put a couple of copies targeting me if I don't have a leathal Brain Freeze.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olesch
Since 2005 or so :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Olesch
I have used it in the purpouse of getting FoI in the graveyard, not milling down unwanted lands. So leaving some BF copies on the stack targeting myself seems very good. Alot of things to think about :)Quote:
Originally Posted by leegoo
I have not seen any new lists. Has anyone been successfull with this deck lately?
Latest update to my Non-Wish list.
4 high tide
4 meditate
4 reset
1 Blue Sun Zenith
1 Intuition
2 Remand
3 Mental Misstep
2 Noxious Revival
2 Turnabout
1 Repeal
4 Brainstorm
4 Opt
4 Impulse
1 Flash of insight
2 Brain Freeze
1 Force of Will
2 Pact of Negation
2 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
12 island
Sideboard is still up in the air. Divert is still an MVP though.
Mental Misstep has been amazing so far (good enough to make the cut over Fow for now) and Revival does a lot that you wouldn't realize (early, being able to have another way to reliably make a land drop is nice. I've considered cutting 1xisland for 1 more even. Later in the game it's a great way to keep you from running out of gas when going off, as any cantrip now returns whatever you've already cast.
Hi guys, this is my first post, still, I've done my homework and read all this thread...
Legacy format is starting to get some love in my community, and I decided to go with Solidarity. Here's the list I'm testing next tournament:
// Lands
11 [ZEN] Island (4a)
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
// Spells
2 [SC] Brain Freeze
4 [IA] Brainstorm
1 [LRW] Cryptic Command
1 [JU] Cunning Wish
2 [JU] Flash of Insight
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [FE] High Tide (2)
2 [VI] Impulse
4 [TE] Meditate
2 [NPH] Mental Misstep
3 [NPH] Noxious Revival
4 [IN] Opt
3 [RAV] Remand
4 [LG] Reset
2 [US] Turnabout
1 [MBS] Blue Sun's Zenith
// Sideboard
1 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
1 [SC] Brain Freeze
3 [IA] Hydroblast
2 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
2 [UL] Rebuild
3 [GP] Repeal
1 [US] Turnabout
1 [TSP] Wipe Away
1 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
I took a traditional build and modified it a little. Noxious rebirth seems good enough to replace a land and two Impulses, enables to freeze and get back with a cantrip (while freezing for FoI, and/or letting copies to resolve after brainfreeze)
I've thought that wish deserved at least 1 place, it enables quite a lot of sickness and noxius makes the singleton worth a lot.
MM is good and can't be overlooked, but I don't think it replaces FoW, nor like the pacts a lot (maybe I lack playtesting...) I consider T0-1 the most relevant turns to have answers on, and MM/FoW provide just that.
Surgical extraction just as Mindbreak trap do a lot for just one slot...
Still this is just my impression, I hope to give you guys something to discuss about =)
Are you suggesting that Noxious Revival lets you cast Cunning Wish more than once? Doesn't Cunning Wish remove itself from the game on resolution?
-Silent Requiem
I wouldn't ever go below 18 lands even with revival. That and I find your lack of 4 impulse's disturbing to say the least; I suggest you go -1 BSZ -1 cryptic command -1 noxious revival for +2 impulse and +1 land. CB.dec isn't a problem right now. Noxious revival is okayish against aggro because you NEED to cast it for 2 life against everything and those 2 points can matter.
@Silent: No, I just suggest it makes it easier to allocate, playing one wish is more than enough generally (with 4 meditates, BSZ and a couple of brainfreezes main, that is)
Brainfreezing yourself is supposed to make this a really mad tutor...
Have you notticed that noxious revival can "plow under" decks like dragon stompy (city of traitors)?
...Or that it can slow down dredge a whole turn :P?
...Or fizzle a manaless counter top? :OO
Seraphus' list has only 2 impulses too... BSZ and CC can not be cut, since their absency is gg against many maaany decks... maybe, just maybe just cut CC for a land, but not BSZ...
Currently with my list, -1 Intuition and +1 FoI. Sadly, instant speed demonic tutor isn't all that good... and it's came up once or twice where having only 1 FoI and impulsing it to the bottom has been bad.
I have to say I was pretty iffy about NR... but as it turns out, UU2+2life (or something similar) to play another Meditate is perfectly fine. It makes all of your cycling cards much more potent the turn you are going off.
I'd like to try a Tropical MD. Bad vs. Wasteland, but being able to cast NR without paying the life would be a nice option sometimes. Silent, didn't you run green for a while?
Yes, although I have not played magic in the current meta yet. Still, I very rarely found myself having to play Tropical Island when I did not want to, although it is worth noting that I played a 20 land build.
-Silent Requiem
I know this may be a little contraversial, but I am currently testing a Solidarity build without Force of Will, and I am tenatively happy with the results.
As we all know, Solidarity lives and dies on card advantage, both real and virtual. Too many times in the past I have (correctly) countered a threat with Force of Will only to lose to the ensuing card disadvantage. By substituting Mental Misstep for Force of Will I am able to counter the majority of the threats I care about without the card disadvantage.
Many articles have already been written about Mental Misstep and what it counters, so I won't repeat that here. However, here are a few observations from my preliminary testing.
1) The tempo gains are huge. I'm often surprised at how much longer I can wait against aggro decks before going of when I counter their turn one Vial/Lackey/Nactl/etc. I would say on average I gain about 1.5 turns. Sometimes they just have a fantastic hand, of course, and it makes less difference, but equally often they have a hand that was marginal without their one-drop, and it makes even more difference.
2) Bounce becomes more important. I now have no way (pre-sideboard, see below) to counter Aethersworn Cannonist, Counterbalance, etc. That means I need a way to bounce it. So far I have been relying on Cryptic Command, but I suspect that Repeal is the best card for the slot. The right balance seems to be one or two in the main deck, with at least one more in the wish-board.
3) A real sideboard becomes more important. Sometimes a matchup just demands hard, unconditional counters (think ANT or TES). That means a playset of FoW/Pact of Negation/Mindbreak Trap in the sideboard, leaving far less room for a wishboard. I'm not advocating a wishless build, but it does require leaning less heavily on Cunning Wish. I'll probably cut my Wishes back down to three, and seriously consider putting all four High Tides back into the maindeck.
4) People still assume you have Force of Will. Unless they are familiar with your deck, this is still what my opponents fear when they see the Islands. It's a strong enough effect that I might go as far as to put a single FoW back into the maindeck, just to keep them "honest".
I have also found that the deck plays a much more proactive game. I would never have used FoW on a Nactl, for example, because I could not afford to pitch the blue card. With MM, I am actively looking for ways to disrupt my opponent's early game. And as I run PtD over Opt, MM is another card that can use that turn one mana that is so often wasted.
Has anyone else been testing a build like this, or have anything to add?
-Silent Requiem