[Deck] The Gate

So I've lurked in this thread for a long time, and figured what the hell I'd post the list that I have been testing online.


//Dudes 16
2 Phyrexian obliterator
2 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire nighthawk
//Discard and Kill 18
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Innocent Blood
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Liliana of the veil
3 Cabal Therapy
//Good stuff 5
3 Bitterblossom
2 Umezawa's Jitte
//Lands
2 Wasteland
19 Swamp



So far its been alright in testing, not seeming to be too much of a slam dunk, but then again, I am playing online with no sideboard against cockatrice kiddies so that probably has a lot to do with it.

I haven't played this deck in awhile, but the Faerie Macabre can also hit the targets of Deathrite Shaman, a card a lot of people forget targets a card in the graveyard. It can also be returned with Sword of Light and Shadow, part of why I will play one(doubtfully two) along with Jitte when I pull the cards out of my stash.

I've been thinking about throwing a list together again to change things up a bit from MUD and Death and Taxes.

I was thinking about this before, but the one MU that seems like it'd be extremely difficult for The Gate and a lot of classic mono black aggro decks is "Shardless".

If we juxtapose Shardless vs The Gate, there's a lot of similarities in some of the card options right. The only difference is that they seem to do it while generating far more CA. While gatekeeper is CA, Shardless Agent into Hymn/Decay/Goyf/Recall/Strix (in most cases) simply outperforms it. Baleful Strix is an absolute brick wall vs Percy/Obliterator/Tombstalkers while generating immediate CA unlike Confidant that has to wait a turn. And DRS provides gy removal without sacrificing itself (although not instant), so it can obsolete strategies while chipping at their life. And with FoW and discard package, it handles combo better. Long story short, it seems to have cheap answers to most of decks like this' tricks while gaining CA while accomplishing a similar strategy. The one thing I think this deck would have going for it is Bitterblossom + Jitte can completely wreck decks like that, but then again Abrupt Decay can always shut either down quick, but still Blossom is pretty beastly. I think contamination engine could shut a deck like that down pretty good though.

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Originally Posted by Mystical_Jackass

I was thinking about this before, but the one MU that seems like it'd be extremely difficult for The Gate and a lot of classic mono black aggro decks is "Shardless".

If we juxtapose Shardless vs The Gate, there's a lot of similarities in some of the card options right. The only difference is that they seem to do it while generating far more CA. While gatekeeper is CA, Shardless Agent into Hymn/Decay/Goyf/Recall/Strix (in most cases) simply outperforms it. Baleful Strix is an absolute brick wall vs Percy/Obliterator/Tombstalkers while generating immediate CA unlike Confidant that has to wait a turn. And DRS provides gy removal without sacrificing itself (although not instant), so it can obsolete strategies while chipping at their life. And with FoW and discard package, it handles combo better. Long story short, it seems to have cheap answers to most of decks like this' tricks while gaining CA while accomplishing a similar strategy. The one thing I think this deck would have going for it is Bitterblossom + Jitte can completely wreck decks like that, but then again Abrupt Decay can always shut either down quick, but still Blossom is pretty beastly. I think contamination engine could shut a deck like that down pretty good though.

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The Gate tends to be notoriously heavier on the removal suite, which is also key when comparing the one-on-one matchup between the two decks. You're also working under the assumption these creatures like DRS, Goyf and Strix are able to stick, which is generally unlikely. The showdown between threats in the mid-game is really a no-contest, where you're able to trump with Persecutor, Nighthawk or even Obliterator. Honestly, Deathrite Shaman is the least of your worries in this matchup - especially if you're running cheap removal like Deathmark and Innocent Blood. The Gate's creature suite is more dense and structured to dominate the board. This is true for Shardless, but not near the extent that it is for The Gate.

Shardless does have a better matchup against combo-based decks, that I'll agree with. But the trade-off here is that this deck is able to crush decks like RUG and Stone Blade - where Shardless actually has difficulties. There is no way to tempo out this deck with Stifle or Wasteland, and it has pinpoint discard to punish combo and aggro-combo strategies. I think the blatant and linear simplicity in how the deck is constructed and designed is what makes it difficult to beat with much of today's top-tier strategies.

I think piloting also goes a long way in how the deck plays out. A strong player with a well thought-out list can and should beat weaker players making myriads of mistakes with [on-paper] superior lists. Many newer players or players on a budget sought this archetype out because it was cheap to acquire, but make no mistake about it: a well-designed version of this deck praying on a meta filled with Delvers and Stoneforge Mystics can be hell in sleeves.

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Originally Posted by Michael Keller

I think piloting also goes a long way in how the deck plays out. A strong player with a well thought-out list can and should beat weaker players making myriads of mistakes with [on-paper] superior lists. Many newer players or players on a budget sought this archetype out because it was cheap to acquire, but make no mistake about it: a well-designed version of this deck praying on a meta filled with Delvers and Stoneforge Mystics can be hell in sleeves.

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What about a meta filled with Terminus/Jace?

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Originally Posted by Michael Keller

The Gate tends to be notoriously heavier on the removal suite, which is also key when comparing the one-on-one matchup between the two decks. You're also working under the assumption these creatures like DRS, Goyf and Strix are able to stick, which is generally unlikely. The showdown between threats in the mid-game is really a no-contest, where you're able to trump with Persecutor, Nighthawk or even Obliterator. Honestly, Deathrite Shaman is the least of your worries in this matchup - especially if you're running cheap removal like Deathmark and Innocent Blood. The Gate's creature suite is more dense and structured to dominate the board. This is true for Shardless, but not near the extent that it is for The Gate.

Shardless does have a better matchup against combo-based decks, that I'll agree with. But the trade-off here is that this deck is able to crush decks like RUG and Stone Blade - where Shardless actually has difficulties. There is no way to tempo out this deck with Stifle or Wasteland, and it has pinpoint discard to punish combo and aggro-combo strategies. I think the blatant and linear simplicity in how the deck is constructed and designed is what makes it difficult to beat with much of today's top-tier strategies.

I think piloting also goes a long way in how the deck plays out. A strong player with a well thought-out list can and should beat weaker players making myriads of mistakes with [on-paper] superior lists. Many newer players or players on a budget sought this archetype out because it was cheap to acquire, but make no mistake about it: a well-designed version of this deck praying on a meta filled with Delvers and Stoneforge Mystics can be hell in sleeves.

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I actually disagree with the assessment that the Gate has a good Stoneblade match up. Batterskull is an almost unbeatable card for you if it ever hits play. It also is a devastating top deck. I think that the match up could become favourable but I have never seen the Gate succeed against Stoneblade consistently.

In addition, Shardless doesn't struggle much against RUG. Stifle is annoying, sure, but historical the rock decks are strong against RUG because of Abrupt Decay, Liliana and our own Goyfs.

I think for the Gate to succeed, the list needs to be very carefully laid out, because even one incorrect card can cause the deck to perform horribly. But then again, I am excited and eagerly await seeing you do that.

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Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

What about a meta filled with Terminus/Jace?

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you shouldn't have too big of a problem.

You have 3 bitterblossoms main, a bunch of discard and a bunch of wienies.

in your board a standard one should look as follows

4 leyline of void
3 pithing needle
2 phyrexian revoker
2 null rod
and whatever you want that fits your meta.

you definitely take out all your removal, ie. innocent blood, victim of night and you bring in needle and null rod and the revoker

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Originally Posted by KobeBryan

you shouldn't have too big of a problem.

You have 3 bitterblossoms main, a bunch of discard and a bunch of wienies.

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Bitterblossom is good, but discard and weenies seems terrible against a deck with a shitload of creature removal, Top/Brainstorm, and a soft lock.

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in your board a standard one should look as follows

4 leyline of void
3 pithing needle
2 phyrexian revoker
2 null rod
and whatever you want that fits your meta.

you definitely take out all your removal, ie. innocent blood, victim of night and you bring in needle and null rod and the revoker

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So they probably bring in EE and Disenchant (or Wear//Tear) and (additional) Council's Judgement. It's probably still better postboard since you have another relevant turn 1 play, but your threats outside Percy/Obliterator give them a lot of time to find answers, and there's really no answer to a resolved Counterbalance at all.

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Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

Bitterblossom is good, but discard and weenies seems terrible against a deck with a shitload of creature removal, Top/Brainstorm, and a soft lock.



So they probably bring in EE and Disenchant (or Wear//Tear) and (additional) Council's Judgement. It's probably still better postboard since you have another relevant turn 1 play, but your threats outside Percy/Obliterator give them a lot of time to find answers, and there's really no answer to a resolved Counterbalance at all.

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they have a total of 3 EE and disenchant in their board. You have 3 bitterblossoms, 2 revokers, 3 pithing needles, and 2 null rods.

It wouldn't be horrendous, unless you drop all your hate on the board at once.

But hey. there's a reason why miracles is a top deck. its good man.

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Originally Posted by KobeBryan

they have a total of 3 EE and disenchant in their board. You have 3 bitterblossoms, 2 revokers, 3 pithing needles, and 2 null rods.

It wouldn't be horrendous, unless you drop all your hate on the board at once.

But hey. there's a reason why miracles is a top deck. its good man.

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Yeah I'm not saying it's not doable, I'm just saying it's not going to be a cakewalk just because you have a bunch of hate. If they deal with your first piece of hate and get CB/Top online early, you could have a real hard time coming back.

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Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

Yeah I'm not saying it's not doable, I'm just saying it's not going to be a cakewalk just because you have a bunch of hate. If they deal with your first piece of hate and get CB/Top online early, you could have a real hard time coming back.

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every deck feels the same against miracles, except for merfolk. Unless you splash green for decays and goyf, this is all your gonna get.

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Originally Posted by Zirath

I actually disagree with the assessment that the Gate has a good Stoneblade match up. Batterskull is an almost unbeatable card for you if it ever hits play. It also is a devastating top deck. I think that the match up could become favourable but I have never seen the Gate succeed against Stoneblade consistently.

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How in the world is a singleton Batterskull even remotely dangerous against this deck? First of all, someone needs to resolve Stoneforge Mystic turn two. Then, tapped out, they need to hope it doesn't get discarded by a Duress or Hymn. Or they have to hope Mystic doesn't die to one of any of the dozen removal spells in the deck, in which they'd be stuck on getting it into play. Assuming they can get to five mana - even against a Wasteland or two and get it in play - it again needs to survive a huge removal suite, or just die to a Nighthawk or kicked Gatekeeper. And for God's sake it is not swinging into an Obliterator.

Batterskull is really not great, dude. It takes time for it to get online, and this deck gains incremental advantage on the board with two-for-ones. Stoneforge Mystic would likely never stick in the first place, and even as a top-deck The Gate's threats really one-up the card hard.

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In addition, Shardless doesn't struggle much against RUG. Stifle is annoying, sure, but historical the rock decks are strong against RUG because of Abrupt Decay, Liliana and our own Goyfs.

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Shardless's mana-base is highly susceptible to tempo-based strategies. It's more than Stifle: Daze and Wasteland are highly annoying against the deck unless it lands turn-one DRS. It's not a bye by any means, but it's no easy out.

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I think for the Gate to succeed, the list needs to be very carefully laid out, because even one incorrect card can cause the deck to perform horribly. But then again, I am excited and eagerly await seeing you do that.

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I'm not sure I'll be running it this Saturday, but if I do I already have a list laid out.

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Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

Bitterblossom is good, but discard and weenies seems terrible against a deck with a shitload of creature removal, Top/Brainstorm, and a soft lock.

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I think that's debatable, though. We do run a healthy amount of targeted discard, so let's play fair and look at it from this perspective: Weenies and discard seem awesome against any deck by eliminating their key spells and flooding the board with creatures. Post-board Needle or Null Rod shut down Top or other shenanigans. Not an easy match-up, but again - if the draw is good it has way more than a puncher's chance.

The Gate frequently goes to grinding games out. Batterskull is unfortunately a trump card in a grind. I agree that discarding it away is much more reliable in your lists (most people cut Duress). This is why I believe you have a better chance of generating a list that will be stronger overall.

I played the following deck recently at a local legacy night (go easy I'm not a very experienced legacy player, still lots of learning needed)


//Creatures
4 x dark confidant
4 x vampire nighthawk
3 x gatekeeper of malakir
3 x abyssal persecutor

//Instants
2 x disfigure
2 x geth's verdict
2 x hero's downfall

//Sorceries
4 x hymn to tourach
4 x duress
3 x cabal therapy
2 x innocent blood

//Planeswalkers
3 x liliana of the veil

//Artifacts
2 x umezawa's jitte

//Land
16 x swamp
1 x urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 x phyrexian tower
4 x wasteland

//Side
3 x marsh casualties
2 x null rod
2 x mindbreak trap
2 x ashen rider
2 x pithing needle
1 x perish
3 x faerie macabre


Matches:
Round 1 I played against shardless rug. I lost 2-0. I really felt like I couldn't keep up in this matchup. He ran bloodbraid elf, ancestral vision, shardless agent, and sylvan library as sources of card advantage. I would empty his hand and then he would refill it again. Super nice guy, had fun playing, but definitely felt outmatched.

Round 2 I played against true name/delver/deathrite shaman/lightning bolt.deck. I won 2-1. The game I lost I fell behind after wastelanding him, getting stuck on a few lands, and him recovering. In the other game, wasteland kept him off lands, hymn to tourach did work, and I won with abyssal persecutor which he could not remove, backed up by umezawa's jitte. I sac'd persecutor using phyrexian tower for the win. Great opponent.

Round 3 I played against traditional rug delver. I lost 2-1. I think I could have had this match but I made a play error in sequencing a wasteland and discard spell and walked into a daze. Good learning experience! Again the game I won was with a persecutor which was sac'd with a phyrexian tower. Again great games, cool opponent


Thoughts:
I didn't run bitterblossom because I thought it might be too slow. I see now that in some matchups it could really help.
I never got to use marsh casualties so can't comment on its effectiveness
Hymn to tourach really shined, and works to equalize all the card advantage other decks run.
Liliana really helps late game to pitch late game discard
Abyssal Persecutor is such a huge threat, my opponents really did not like seeing it land, requiring 2 for 1s to answer it.
Phyrexian tower helped me remove persecutor several times and also helped me cast one early by sac'ing a confidant I no longer wanted due to life loss
I was undecided on wasteland - several games I fell behind because I wastelanded my opponent and fell behind on land drops, but my opponent was able to ponder/brainstorm etc and recover easily. I was then left with 3 drops that I couldn't play. Other games however, it was truly game changing.
Had to drop after that b/c it was getting late
Had really awesome opponents and a great time!

I think Ulcerate warrants testing in the Disfigure slot. Not too sure if the life-loss is too much, though.

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Originally Posted by Darkenslight

I think Ulcerate warrants testing in the Disfigure slot. Not too sure if the life-loss is too much, though.

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It seems inferior to Dismember, which for one life more gives a creature -5/-5 and doesn't eat it to Chalice.

And that's assuming you actually only pay one mana for it in an all-black deck.

I have been playing a modern version of The Gate with Phyrexian Obliterator with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx for acceleration to dump my hand asap. I use Phyrexian Arena instead of Dark Confidant so I wasn't losing as much life from flips like the Legacy version. The susceptibility to wasteland and having more lands that produce colorless might be going against of the best things about the deck; blanking opposing wastelands. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth could be used to help fix but that just adds more targets to be wastelanded.

Has anyone tried running Gray Street Merchant? The casting cost is somewhat high but it could help finish an opponent off, gain life to stall and is a good wall/ chump blocker. It might not be so great with a Dark Confidanttrigger though. It is a great finisher in modern so why not try it in legacy?

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Originally Posted by Michael Keller

I think that's debatable, though. We do run a healthy amount of targeted discard, so let's play fair and look at it from this perspective: Weenies and discard seem awesome against any deck by eliminating their key spells and flooding the board with creatures. Post-board Needle or Null Rod shut down Top or other shenanigans. Not an easy match-up, but again - if the draw is good it has way more than a puncher's chance.

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Flooding the board with creatures is generally a terrible plan against a deck with 4 Terminus (unless you're talking specifically about Bitterblossom tokens). Persecutor is also a decent threat that you can basically sit on and force them to act, but again you need to actually find and resolve him. Meanwhile you've got some underwhelming cards like Nighthawk and Gatekeeper, and things that are more or less dead like Innocent Blood and Disfigure/Dismember. Again, not saying it's unwinnable, but especially game 1 I would put it strongly in Miracles' favor. I don't buy into the argument that it just takes the right draws to win, because you could make that case for essentially any deck in any matchup.

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Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

Flooding the board with creatures is generally a terrible plan against a deck with 4 Terminus (unless you're talking specifically about Bitterblossom tokens). Persecutor is also a decent threat that you can basically sit on and force them to act, but again you need to actually find and resolve him. Meanwhile you've got some underwhelming cards like Nighthawk and Gatekeeper, and things that are more or less dead like Innocent Blood and Disfigure/Dismember. Again, not saying it's unwinnable, but especially game 1 I would put it strongly in Miracles' favor. I don't buy into the argument that it just takes the right draws to win, because you could make that case for essentially any deck in any matchup.

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That just seems like flawed logic. If you're up against a deck with four Terminus, it's egregious to assume a Gatekeeper of Malakir is going the distance to beat a Miracles player. You're not "out-controlling" them, and the longer you wait the worse it gets. You're better off going for an all-out assault as fast as possible as opposed to biding your time and giving them a chance to find one of their four Terminus in game one.