yeah i was being facetious, its not the worst creatue but it cannot compete w/ the other 3 drops unfortunately. if it had cascade, i would be on it's nuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by undone
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yeah i was being facetious, its not the worst creatue but it cannot compete w/ the other 3 drops unfortunately. if it had cascade, i would be on it's nuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by undone
How many more sets can Canadian Thresh stay competitive without adding any new maindeck or sideboard cards. I tried out the list about a year ago and it remains virtually unchanged while other decks try out new strategies or implement new mechanics.
My guess is until Wizards decides to print something better than the 60 cards being played now. Vendilion Clique has the potential to be maindecked if you want to, but Thrash hasn't lost any effectiveness. I doubt the deck will change until either something mind blowing comes out for it or something ridiculous comes out that it can't handle in its current config (which seems unlikely).Quote:
Originally Posted by conboy31
There are only about 2 slots in the deck that can change and a 3rd based on metagame. Those slots are the bounce spells and the last fire ice or snare, each is semi metagame call but you want 1 bounce spell at least and personaly unless i am playing infinate goblins I like the 4th fire ice as a clique.
We never really came to a real conclusion on the snake but potentialy it could eat cliques spot.
Unless something format shattering comes about (doubtful) we will remain the most consistent deck in the format and because consistency= power this deck will always be very strong with no deck having more than a 60/40 matchup with it.Quote:
How many more sets can Canadian Thresh stay competitive without adding any new maindeck or sideboard cards. I tried out the list about a year ago and it remains virtually unchanged while other decks try out new strategies or implement new mechanics.
I'm now testing this new version of thresh UGr, running counterbalance and a new entry: wisescale coatl. I'm not sure if this is the deck that best abuse of it, but 'cause I've decided to run counterbalance I think that he could find its place.
4 polluted delta
4 wooded foothills
4 tropical island
3 volcanic island
2 island
1 forest
4 tarmogoyf
4 nimble mangoose
2 wisescale coatl
1 vendilion clique
4 force of will
4 lightning bolt
3 fire // ice
4 brainstorm
3 sensei's divining top
3 counterbalance
2 predict
3 spell snare
3 daze
2 ponder
Now I've got a few questions for you:
1) Should I be running daze? How many copies? It really slows me and playing coatl.
2) Is vendilion clique a bad choice? Or it does its work in this deck?
3)I'm not so convinced about ponder. I'm already playing a big amount of cantrip effects ( brainstorm, sensei's divining top, predict). May ponder be too much?
4)Last question: should i run stifle instead of spell snare?
Waiting suggests, spartan117
P.S.: please post a decklist with your changes. Thanks.
As we all know Tarmogoyf has been a smash since the day it was printed. I have only one but the rest of the basics of this deck. What would be a good replacement until I can get my other 3?
Of the Counterbalance/Top versions of thresh, red is actually the weakest splash behind white and black. The problem is that red doesn't have a good late game like white's Mystic Enforcer or blacks Bob. The strategy where red thresh really shines is in tempo thresh, which opts to run a solid land destruction suite of 4 Wasteland and 4 Stifle, along with other tempo gaining cards. The list I would suggest playing is:Quote:
Originally Posted by spartan117
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fire/Ice
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
1 Rushing River
1 Wipe Away
This version of red thresh is, in my opinion, more fun to play, and can also shut down decks within the first couple turns and win purely on tempo. In addition, red has the best sideboard options of the splashes in Pyroclasm and Pyroblast, for example.
If you want to play CounterTop, I would suggest something similar to Nassif's 4 color countertop thresh. Otherwise, Red Tempo Thresh is freaking awesome.
I would put in 3 Quirion Dryads until you can get the goyfs, but the deck will suffer pretty much from the change.Quote:
Originally Posted by exaltedgod
The deck you're suggesting is caplan's canadian threshold and I already know it. I've played a similar deck for months, and now I want to play something new. I think that coatl could find it's place and 'cause I like thresh UGr I'm trying to modify it according to wisescale's time need. I assure you that this decklist is really powerfull, even if Thresh UGw/b better abuse of CB.
Apart from these considerations, what would you change in my decklist?
Waiting suggests, sparta117
I would take a look at brassman's countertop list from GP chicago
Ok, fair enough. By the way, I think you might mean Lorescale Coatl, rather than Wisescale.Quote:
Originally Posted by spartan117
I feel that Lorescale Coatl in a Thresh list is underwhelming. The time requirement is the problem. I think it will put too much pressure on your list (Brainstorm in particular) to play your draw spells differently to speed up the growth of Lorescale, and thus making them more useful, i.e. hiding a Force from a Duress, digging to find the Fire/Ice or Pyroclasm. Also, they are mostly good on turn 3. Any time you draw one after that turn, their usefulness deteriorates rapidly. Now you have a card worse than Trygon (which is what I still favor when I play thresh). No evasion hurts a creature like this. Personally if I were going to play a pump creature I'd rather play Quirion Dryad like back in the day--at least it's cheaper removal bait. The only difference is it doesn't pitch to force, but no one accepts that as a valid reason to play a card anyway. Oh, Spell Snare :rolleyes:
I don't think it's worth squeezing in. Go Trygon or Dryad; Coatl needs to be built around, not tossed into.
Pce,
--DC
Took this list to an 8 man last Saturday.
4x Nimble Mongoose
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Trygon Predator
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
4x Spell Snare
4x Stifle
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Fire/Ice
1x Rushing River
1x Wipe Away
4x Tropical Island
4x Volcanic Island
4x Wasteland
2x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand
2x Wooded Foothills
SB:
4x Submerge
4x Disrupt
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Pyroblast
1x Krosan Grip
1x Pyroclasm
1x Engineered Explosives
R1: MonoR Burn 2-0, 1-0
G1: All the usual burn you would expect. Forced Fireblast and Dazed Fork, couldn't get me under 9 before the Goose/Goyf beatdown.
G2: -4 Stifle +4 Disrupt. Disrupt eats his early turns and Goose/Goyf beat face again.
R2: Staff of Domination/Oblivion Stone 0-2, 1-1
G1: Every beater I drop he either Chainer or Diabolic Edict's it. 15 turns of him gaining life and drawing cards turns into multiple Drain life's.
G2: Can't remember what I sided but it went the exact same way as g1 but I managed to stall bouncing Staff and Stone a couple of times but...
R3: AggroLoam 2-0, 2-1
G1: I start dropping early Mongoose and have answers for Devastating Dreams, Knight of the Reliquary, and Terravore. Goyf follows close behind my geese and finishes the job.
G2: I believe I went -4 Spell Snare -1 Daze -1 Stifle +3 Submerge +3 Disrupt. I didn't get to use the Submerge this game but Disrupt came in handy after I Stifled 1 of his Fetch and he couldn't pay 1 for Dreams. Double Goyf beatface ftw.
R4: WhiteWeenie 2-1, 3-1
G1: Was very close. Soltari Priest, Mother of Ruins, Silver Knight all put up a good fight but could not over come 3/3 Geese and 4/5 Goyf's. Fire/Ice was also great in this matchup and I wish I had the 4th one here.
G2: -2 Stifle -1 Daze +1 E.E. +1 Krosan Grip +1 Pyroclasm. Double Soltari Priest and one with a Mask of Memory... he was dropping beats fast and I couldn't match it. Also I drop Trygon this game but it and pryoclasm were basically dead to me.
G3: Same as game 1. He drops Soltari and Mother turn 3, next turn he drops another Mother, I Fire both Mother's and Stifle the ones ability (move wins me the game) this allows for Goyf's to swing freely ftw.
Split to Top4
R5: Same WhiteWeenie from R4 2-1, 4-1
G1: Kid you not, same as R4 G1.
G2: Same as R4 G2.
G3: This was different. I took out his Mother's but he just kept dropping them, Preists were eating me up, I had managed to get him to 1 through Bolt's/Fire and Geese. I have no cards in hand 2 Geese and 1 Goyf, he has 2 Mother's 2 Silver Knight's 3 Soltari 2 other Knights (regenerate when destroyed) and had just resolved Exalted Angel, he swings and puts me a 6. I topdeck a Bolt ftw.
R6: Same AggroLoam as R3 1-2, 4-2
G1: Exact same as R3 G1.
G2: He manages to resolve a Knight and I can't find a Goyf/Bounce, geese aren't enough to hold it back.
G3. Things are going my way but taking a while. 1 Geese beats his face for like 5 turns while I counter everything. He did manage to resolve a Vial and drops Knights in at the end of my turn I stifle it a few times and manage to get him to 3 (he fetch and goes to 2) with the 1 goose and a couple of Bolt/Fire's when he finally resolves a huge 7/7 Knight. I drop the 2nd Goose (can't find a Goyf) and have a Force in hand with no pitch card. He Dreams for 3 and kills my Geese, beats face for 3 turns. Couldn't find Bolt/Fire to save me.
Changes after: -1 Trygon +1 Vendilion Clique SB: Going to try -1 E.E. -1 Disrupt +1 Pyroclasm +1 Grip. Thoughts?
Re Coatls: I tried out coatls in a Canadian thresh build. I worked in three and was non-plussed by them. The reason being was that when they came down, I would have burnt through my draw to keep my disruption going or line up protecting for them. In a game or two, they were alright. The biggest one ever got was a 6/6, but I felt like they were sort of a starined addition to the deck.
In all honesty, I'd see myself running a fledgling dragon over coatls if only for the evasion and the fact that by the time the dragon lands, he is going to be a 5/5 flier right off the bat. Keep in mind that I would run predators over either so far, but Canadian thresh isn't quite my forte, but I figured that coatls might make the archetype work for me finally.
With that said, my testing was limited to about four matches and a bunch of fishes just to make sure that three was a good number.
In regards to the number of three, I felt like two would be better, but the problem with that would be that they wouldn't be showing up nearly often enough to grow really. The result was three because it just felt right because it would ensure that I would curve into them, while still having draw on occasion to pump them.
That is the difficult thing with coatl though because I find most successful Canadian thresh games involve me going first turn mongoose, second turn wasteland/stifle on a fetchland+ponder or BS to keep the disruption growing and eventually with the disruption and me getting card quality through cantrips, threshold is met and a goyf drops. I don't really see a three mana beater that requires extra cantrips fitting into a scenario very well. It can be granted that they will gorw by one each turn, but that is extremely unspectacular and if you are growing him the slow way, you would get as much or more damage out a dryad or utility out of a predator...or a bomb in the form of a dragon or a swan if you wanna rock a combo build.
I saw a Canadian thresh coatl build on deckcheck though, so maybe it's working for someone and I didn't test enough.
FYI - "Nonplussed" means confused or bewildered, not "unimpressed." For instance, if thought they were going to suck and they were actually awesome but you couldn't put your finger just on why they were awesome; you could be nonplussed by how well they worked out. - Bardo
I got some questions to be honest.
The sideboard is pretty fixed:
4 Disrupt
4 Submerge
4 Pyro-/red elemental blast
1 Krosan Grip
1 Pyroclasm
1 Engineered Explosives
What will be a sideboard strategy against:
UW(x) Landstill
CB Threshold
Agroloam and Loam (Terranova kind of decks)
Don't u think the disrupt's are a bit overkill? The are great against ANT ofcourse, but do you guys board them more often? Maybe against things like Black sui and Eva green, they are probably good against, but I have no idea to be honest if you want to board them anymore.
And by playing just 1 pyroclasm, do you think we just ignore the goblin matchup? I mean Vial is a real pain in the ass if he lands, but a well timed Pyroclasm can win you the game.
I'd like to get some answers on my questions, maybe we can work out together some sideboard plans.
they are great in the thresh mirror aswell
I played Canadian Thresh today in a small local tournament and came in first. My board was
4 Submerge
2 Disrupt
1 Trygon Predator
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pyroclasm
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
I never boarded the Artifacts, but wasn't paired against Loam, Dredge or Landstill. Submerge and Disrupt were great in 3 out of 4 matches. Next time I'll cut 1 Submerge for an additional Pyroclasm though. Even in the Matchups I wanted them I never boarded in more than 3.
Countering FoW or winning counterwars by using Disrupt was priceless. :D
If Disrupt was that good, wouldn't you want more than 2? Also, what happen to REB/Pyroblast? I find them a little more versatile that Disrupt. To each their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzbold
From the last DTBF update:
In accordance with the above, this thread is being locked and will eventually be archived. You may continue your discussion in either the CounterTop thread or the Tempo Thresh thread, as appropriate.Quote:
A second important change involves how Threshold decks are counted; in the last year the archetype has evolved to the point that the old categorisation by their splash colour (or lack thereof) makes little sense.
Today, the one clear split is between decks packing the maindeck Counterbalance/Top combination and those favouring an aggressive, tempo-driver approach with Daze, Stifle, and Wasteland. The latter decks are quite well established, with only a few secondary choices being discussed (mostly additional threats such as Dreadnought or Alara Reborn creatures) and splashing exclusively either Red or Black.
Counterbalance decks, on the other side, exist in a continuum, from the classic Mongoose builds to the Chicago lists to those incorporating additional tricks (Survival, Natural Order, etc.); they also exist in pretty much every possible colour combination that includes Blue and Green, from two to four colours.
If some clear division in approaches emerges, this will eventually be adopted in both thread organisation and tournament tallies. For the time being, all CounterTop decks that do not fall into any established category, i.e. that follow the game plan of "establish the Balance soft-lock and play good creatures", will get dumped into one format-leading cauldron.