[Deck] Dragon Stompy

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Originally Posted by Joe_C

if you play in a meta where there are alot of basics, play a different deck. They meta didnt change because of dragon stompy, trust me. And you are foolish for thinking this deck can compete without seething song/slogger.

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The first guy who beat me said that he had lost to blood moon effects to many times so that he changed it to have more basics. The meta hasn't changed?
Remember when Magus was T2 and it beat faeries, faeries then went from 0 basics to 7-9 basics.

Well, if you think that this deck is performing well at tournaments, then don't change anything, but let me know when it does well. And please dont say T8 at the grand prix, the only good placing lately, and even people in here wondered how the deck couldn't lose to itself in so many rounds.

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Originally Posted by mercc

The first guy who beat me said that he had lost to blood moon effects to many times so that he changed it to have more basics. The meta hasn't changed?
Remember when Magus was T2 and it beat faeries, faeries then went from 0 basics to 7-9 basics.

Well, if you think that this deck is performing well at tournaments, then don't change anything, but let me know when it does well. And please dont say T8 at the grand prix, the only good placing lately, and even people in here wondered how the deck couldn't lose to itself in so many rounds.

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http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...&postcount=124

happened yesterday. And yes the deck is inconsistent as it mulligans like shit, we all know that, removing seething song wont help that at all. We have no draw sources or shuffle effects. We have to take what our deck gives us.

Just as an update I placed 5th in the bazzar tourney on the 21st with this deck. the list should be in the coverage thread somewhere. I lost to 4c thresh, 2nd round bye, then I beat 2 merfolk decks 2-1, and one goblins deck 2-0 and lost in t-8 to faries. got 2 taigas and 2 savannas

DRAGON STOMPY

Hi Guys,
I haven´t used my DS-Deck for a while and I feel the need to change something. I always wanted to give the deck a slightly more aggressive approach. I was never impressed by Jitte in this deck since it eats up 4 mana and doesn´t help keep the Magus of the Moon alive and sucks in multiples because it denies hellbent. Jitte & CotV @2 don´t go well either.. Also playing a Simian Spirit Guide and needing to equip it with Jitte (total 5 Mana) didn´t impress me. Also the T.Mauler isn´t very exciting.

After I complained a bit I would like to present you a different approach. I don´t say it is better then the one we have since I couldn´t test it an awful lot but what I have seen so far has been very promising. If it doesn´t work I will go back to the more traditional build.

So here is my list:

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City Of Traitors
10 Snow-Covered Mountain
18

4 Arc-Slogger
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rakdos Pit-Dragon
20

4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void4
4 Seething Song
3 Blood Moon
3 Goblin Assault
4.Grafted Wargear

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So what are the changes:

3 Goblin Assault
4 Grafted Wargear

Goblin Assault:
Gives you a constant flow of creatures. These little helpers start to apply pressure early on. At least Goblin Assault binds a creature, because otherwise Goblin Assault can go nutz pretty fast. And multiples are out of this world. So basically GA is a one-time-investment you can capitalize from during the rest of the game. Also worth noting is that an unanswered GA is a very quick clock that can´t be stopped by a single creature after it started going. Also very good against Standstill/Humility; Goblin Weirding and Goblins in general.

Grafted Wargear:
Also a one-time-investment that can be used in multiple ways.
1. First turn MotM gets second turn BOLTPROOF and starts beating fo 5 and becoming a 4 turn clock.
2. First turn Gaithan Rider beats for up to 8 the next turn!
3. Late SSG become a 3 mana investment for a 5/4 Vanilla
4. Goblin Assault becomes a lot scarier when you start to shit 4/3 GOBBOS EACH TURN!
5. RPD can be played turn 4 or 3 with a previously played Wargear in play making the RPD BOLTPROOF the same turn it comes into play. Beating with a pumpable flyer with doublestrike and a 6/5 Body is pretty cool too

So what are the ups and downs when using Wargear over Jitte?
+Wargear isn´t lengendary
+Wargear has no conflict with CotV
+Wargear is faster 3cc vs 2cc +2 for equipping
+When equipped creature dies you can reequip for 0 mana letting you play other stuff.
+Makes your weak creatures an instant threat Jitte starts to rule a turn later
+Is really strong with GA
-Doesn´t give you life Didn´t use Jitte for the lifegain anyways and if I did I normally lost anyway because I couldn´t disrupt/race my opponent
-Can´t be used as Spotremoval  You got me. We would have to live with that.
-2 for 1 when being destroyed If Goblin A. is carrier we don´t care. Normally people spend their Artifact/Enchantment-Removal on stuff like 3Sphere, Moon, CotV or Mox.

Try it out and give me Feedback! It Rock´s since it makes the deck tick a turn faster. I mean Ending a game with a MotM turn 5 all by itself is ……..PRICELESS or Topdecking a SSG turn 7 and being happy about it since you have 2 Wargears online is …….PRICELESS.

Just one thing, Powder Keg is against what?

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Originally Posted by Charlatan

Just one thing, Powder Keg is against what?

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Ichorid, Landstill(nails man lands and decree of justice tokens, elspeth tokens), decks that run tarmogoyf, goblins etc.... pretty much anything that runs 0-2 cc permanents we want to blow up.

@chillerkiller: Grafted wargear seems interesting, but you do know that game 2 you make all their artifact hate even better against you. Jitte is not that mana taxing as in they need to deal with it or your creature fast or it will win the game in 4 turns. The life gain is really beneficial and being able to eat x/2 creatures after 1 swing is huge in a lot of matches.

I would really like wargear if everyone weren't packing Krosan Grip and Explosives in their board. Goblin Assault may offset some of the damage, but I doubt it ends up worth it in the long haul.

I'll give it a spin sometime if I can though.

I've been having an on-again/off-again love affair with Dragon Stompy (I love me some Pit Dragon).

Goblin Assault seems like an interesting alternative to Tauren Mauler - I'll give it a spin and see how it goes.

It made me sad when red Akroma really stopped being viable anymore :(

Goblin Assault makes Engineered Plague relevant.

hey

How many of you guys really like Jitte in the main?
I play DS for a long time, and very often Jitte is just meh...
I play it when I can, but nearly every other card in this deck is better, and then, I don't equip it, because it doesn't do enough for total cost of 4...

We don't have evasive beaters (only Dragon, and thats 2 Mana more)

The problem with Jitte imo is, that you want to do XXX other things with your mana, and it doesn't pump the creature directly, neither gives it evasion or something...

After the GP, I see many lists without Jitte, because the GP-list shows that Jitte wasn't needed, and it seems to work well without Jitte.

@Taco: I don't think that Jitte is needed as a 2-off core card in this deck.

What did you other guys think about it?

YawG

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Originally Posted by Yawgmoth'sWill

How many of you guys really like Jitte in the main?
I play DS for a long time, and very often Jitte is just meh...
I play it when I can, but nearly every other card in this deck is better, and then, I don't equip it, because it doesn't do enough for total cost of 4...

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jitte is a utility card that shines against janky decks that aren't hit by the tier 1 hate that this deck packs. this deck is tailored to beat the top decks, but then it can lose to some random piece of crap because half the cards in the deck are dead. jitte is great utility against random decks because of all the different things it can do. i dont think its optimal against the top tier decks, but provides good equipment against any deck and fixes the bad match ups against those random decks. of course if you never face those kinds of decks and most of your meta is top tier im sure there is a better choice, but if you have a random meta i think jitte does have a place in the md.

@Esper3k: while akroma isnt necessarily optimal in all situations, she is playable. and if playing her makes you happy you go ahead and do it. remember this is a game that you should enjoy playing, i think some people take it too seriously some times.

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Originally Posted by DrtyDozen13

if playing her makes you happy you go ahead and do it. remember this is a game that you should enjoy playing, i think some people take it too seriously some times.

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Here, Here!

When it all boils down it's a game, so one or two pet cards here and there should matter too much.


If this has already been discussed my bad:

What about Jaya Ballard as a SB card? In a blue heavy meta (what Meta isn't these days?) I can see her being good, she does fit in to 3cc slot and she does enable Hellbent but the double red and her being a little mana intensive could be an issue.

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Originally Posted by Wereodile

Here, Here!

When it all boils down it's a game, so one or two pet cards here and there should matter too much.


If this has already been discussed my bad:

What about Jaya Ballard as a SB card? In a blue heavy meta (what Meta isn't these days?) I can see her being good, she does fit in to 3cc slot and she does enable Hellbent but the double red and her being a little mana intensive could be an issue.

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I think the 1RR cost is tolerable if she is in the board. I personally still prefer shusher against counter decks, although being able to pitch to Jaya is techy. I have seen a few European lists that run her in the board.

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Originally Posted by Joe_C

I think the 1RR cost is tolerable if she is in the board. I personally still prefer shusher against counter decks, although being able to pitch to Jaya is techy. I have seen a few European lists that run her in the board.

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I am now playing a singleton Shusher which seems really good but we'll see as I have a tournament coming up in a couple of weeks.

I am also going to do some testing with Goblin Assault to see how all that jazz will work out, right now I am going between 3x Assault 2x Blood Moon or Vice Versa.

I've actually been tinkering with various mana-producing guys in the Mauler slot recently. After a brief failed affair with Grinning Ingus (If it made 1:r::r: instead of :2::r: it'd be the best thing ever), I'm having decent luck with Coal Stoker in the Mauler slot as of late.

What I like Coal Stoker doing is allowing me to be dropping Moons or Chalices while I'm also dropping threats. Stoker/Moon, Stoker/Trinisphere, Stoker/Morph, whatever. He's especially incredible off Seething Song. Song allows you to go Stoker/Chal-2, Stoker/Dragon, or even Stoker/Stoker/Magus.

I'm not going to say at this point that he's better than Mauler. But I think he's an interesting addition and I'm enjoying testing him. And the whole deck just feels way more consistent with him in there. The only matchup I really miss Mauler horribly in is Goblins, because the immunity to Warren Weirding is fantastic, but Goblins is still quite workable. Here's the list I'm screwing around with, for interest.

10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Blood Moon

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Coal Stoker
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Arc-Slogger

SB: (Not recommended, just screwing around with some ideas)
4 Pyroclasm
3 Flametongue Kavu
2 Grafted Wargear
2 Pithing Needle
2 Boil
1 Trinisphere
1 Blood Moon

The thing I like most about Mauler is that he's a 3cc threat that easily becomes bigger than Goyf most times. Bounce is almost non-existent in the format, so he's pretty much there to stay unless your opponent uses a true removal spell on him or he dies in combat.

True, we run other threats that can take down Goyf too (hellbent Raiders, double striking Pit Dragon, Slogger + an activation), but Mauler is 3cc and he doesn't require anything special to get big other than being a part of natural game progression (much like Goyf in that respect).

Isn't Coal Stoker hurting your consistency, Taco? I know when I ran Mountain Yeti the CMC of four was a pain. And not only does Stoker break one of the cardinal rules of Dragon Stompy, he's only a 3/3. A 3/3 that Lightning Bolts you when you cast it a decent percentage of the time.

On a somewhat unrelated note, what's up with Boil? Aren't eight moons enough to beat blue mana bases? I guess it's a good board choice if you keep running into Merfolk, Faerie Stompy, and MUC along with a good helping of Thresh and Landstill.

I dunno, I've never had much of a problem getting the job done with eight moons.

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Originally Posted by Kuma

Isn't Coal Stoker hurting your consistency, Taco? I know when I ran Mountain Yeti the CMC of four was a pain. And not only does Stoker break one of the cardinal rules of Dragon Stompy, he's only a 3/3. A 3/3 that Lightning Bolts you when you cast it a decent percentage of the time.

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Strangely, no. By virtue of producing mana, he's actually made me more consistent. And way faster. The downside is I don't get turn one Maulers that turn 7/7 and munch on Tarmogoyf faces. So there you go.

It sort of alters the Dragon Stompy rules. It's a 4-drop, but it's a one-red four drop, and one that can get me multiple red, and one that only costs me a net of one.

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On a somewhat unrelated note, what's up with Boil? Aren't eight moons enough to beat blue mana bases? I guess it's a good board choice if you keep running into Merfolk, Faerie Stompy, and MUC along with a good helping of Thresh and Landstill.

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Honestly? I'm not sure. I'm testing it out. I tend not to automatically dismiss sideboard choices that top eight Grands Prix. Seems like it's yet another "Hey, look, you lose!" card against Thresh/Landstill/etc, and it's solid against decks packing a lot of basic islands. Which helps against the stupid Blue Progenitus deck popping up in my area.

Congratulations to James Mink!!! Dragon stompy kicks ass, despite its suicidal tendencies! The only question about his decklist is why the hell 3 Maulers? Mauler is good but only in 4s, right?

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Originally Posted by sasa_batora

That random one-of Needle in the SB... what is that? :confused:

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I wouldn't say random. It's just that it is combined with other cards, and he had no more space. I bet that in all the matches that he sideboarded the Needle, he always sbd other cards with a relevant role as well. Check out Nassif's whole SB. It is made of 1-ofs..(coupled with draw cards main). I think these singletons form answers towards different decks when combined differently(and for the record, I've heard this is called redundancy). I've explained that roughly in page 87.

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Originally Posted by Kuma

So your argument is that a second Slogger is worse than the first? 99% of the time if you've used all your charges there is no second Slogger -- you've already won.

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I'm not dead sure you're right. Against weenies you're busy removing X/1s n' X/2s to let Slogger attack and then sometimes you're overwhelmed. But I won't insist, due to my limited experience.

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Originally Posted by Kuma

I wouldn't call a 3/1 an "excellent blocker". I'd call it a chump blocker. Also, Dragon Stompy doesn't have a problem finding carriers for Jitte -- it runs 21-24 creatures.

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An excellent (dealing Bolt combat damage) chump blocker:smile:.. especially if equipped. I usually play with 3 equipments MD.

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Originally Posted by Kuma

If you have a Slogger on the table when your opponent casts Nether Void, you should thank them for handing you the game.

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Pardon me, but won't a 3cc Snuff-Out be a finishing move against us then?

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Originally Posted by Kuma

Goblin Assault is an even worse late game topdeck than Taurean Mauler.

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Not if you play 3 equipments, if we are talking about attack. As for defence you're right, because Goblin Assault doesn't prectically create blockers.

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Originally Posted by Kuma

Two Taurean Maulers turns one and two is almost certainly faster.

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You're right, but a first turn Assault equipped with a second turn Jitte, Grafted Wargear or even a Seething Songed Sword is better. In my humble opinion always.

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

FWIW, I'm not even sure Jitte's the best equipment anymore. I'm tinkering around with a couple other options. But right now there aren't many slots in the deck for equipment due to the nature of being unable to draw.

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Do you mean that the deck's better without any equipment or that Jitte is no more No.1? If you mean the second what would be better? Grafted Wargear, or have you got something else in mind?

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Originally Posted by mercc

well, I didn't have any success at all today, on the other hand i faced a lot of basics.
but as this deck was created because of a meta with very few basics, the meta has adapted and is ready. what do we do next?

the 20 most recent decklists posted on this forum have _so little_ tweaks in them.
2 shushers or no shushers
4 maulers or none.
3 sloggers or 4?

i must say... WOW, i'm applauding.. the tweaks that will make this deck tier1? I think not

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This deck is an established one and from that point on it is natural that any changes to it should come slowly.

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Originally Posted by Joe_C

Ichorid, Landstill(nails man lands and decree of justice tokens, elspeth tokens), decks that run tarmogoyf, goblins etc.... pretty much anything that runs 0-2 cc permanents we want to blow up.

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Isn't Powder Keg also good against Enchantress? As for Ichorid, Chalices and 6-8 Moons are more than enough I think.

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Originally Posted by heroicraptor

Goblin Assault makes Engineered Plague relevant.

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True. But if you play 1-2 Assaults, as I plan to do, you force him to SB possibly 4 Plagues against your 2 Assaults. If you don't run Maulers(that count as Goblins) will he do it??

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Originally Posted by Joe_C

I think the 1RR cost is tolerable if she is in the board. I personally still prefer shusher against counter decks, although being able to pitch to Jaya is techy. I have seen a few European lists that run her in the board.

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I agree. Jaya Ballard and other pitchers like Arc Mage are good since almost all people run 4 Sloggers and 2+ Jittes. Late game Maulers could be helpful if pitched plenty of times. But I wouldn't play more than 1-2 pitchers because 1)their abilities cost mana that is often more useful elsewhere, 2)we don't want to pitch all the cards when topdecking, and 3) two weak pitchers on board would be very weak (plus that we won't have 2 cards/turn to trash and 5-6 mana for both). We already have 8 one-shot pitching cards maindecked after all.

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Originally Posted by Kuma

Isn't Coal Stoker hurting your consistency, Taco? I know when I ran Mountain Yeti the CMC of four was a pain. And not only does Stoker break one of the cardinal rules of Dragon Stompy, he's only a 3/3. A 3/3 that Lightning Bolts you when you cast it a decent percentage of the time.

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I agree. We can't afford even more life loss. But we have many cards that utilise that red mana, Dragon, Slogger, Shushers - pitchers if maindecked and equipments. Note that Yeti was even more difficult because it costs 2RR.

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Originally Posted by Kuma

Aren't eight moons enough to beat blue mana bases? I guess it's a good board choice if you keep running into Merfolk, Faerie Stompy, and MUC along with a good helping of Thresh and Landstill.

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It depends. MUC plays with 1 Academy Ruins and over 20 Islands for example, you do not harm them with moons. Merfolk plays lots of Islands, and while you neutralise their Mutavaults and Wastelands, you can't say that 8 Moons beat them. Same with Faerie Stompy. And as Taco had said, Solidarity is slowed down if its pilot plays 6 fetchies and you play a Moon first...but in any case case with -let's say- at least 10 Islands, I don't think "beat" is the proper word.



And something about Jitte. If it was used in decks that did well in tournaments (main or sb).. if we don't know if it is the best equip.. if it is a great utility card.. if we need more space for something new.. if we can't count on having a Jitte for sure due to DS's no draw anyway..while multiples hurt..

If all these ifs happen to be true simultaneously, try playing 1 goddamn Jitte:)

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Originally Posted by 0dysseus

Do you mean that the deck's better without any equipment or that Jitte is no more No.1? If you mean the second what would be better? Grafted Wargear, or have you got something else in mind?

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I meant the former. That said, I will say both of the following.
1. Running exactly one Jitte is a fantastic idea and something I've been doing off and on for awhile now.
2. Grafted Wargear can be -nuts-. It makes SSG and Magus actual physical threats. It's a freeplay off Coal Stoker. It turns Slogger and Raiders bigger than the format. And it makes Pit Dragon just bonkers. Like, outrace a Progenitus bonkers. The downside is obviously huge, though, as it turns Trygon Predator, Krosan Grip, and Vindicate into ridiculous two for ones. So I still don't advocate maindecking it. Or much equipment at all. Equipment isn't a threat and DS has no draw. I tend to use Wargear the most when either Blood Moon or Trinisphere is incredibly weak in a matchup.

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I agree. We can't afford even more life loss. But we have many cards that utilise that red mana, Dragon, Slogger, Shushers - pitchers if maindecked and equipments. Note that Yeti was even more difficult because it costs 2RR.

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We do. And usually it's enough. And keep in mind that Coal Stoker is the -first- guy you ever play from your hand. Meaning the only time you're running the risk of burning for 3 is when you topdeck him and have to play him to keep Hellbent going or to keep control of the creature situation on the board.

The neat thing about -this- situation, is that if you're doing it to keep Hellbent alive, 50% of your Hellbent creatures can use the mana. And because he's so explosive, you'll have less situations where you have to play him to keep control of the board when you don't.

However, I won't argue the point that he sucks as a midgame topdeck. Then again, he's competing for Mauler and Goblin Assault's slot, and they suck ass midgame also.