I found that the deck is still pretty great. LDV works fine as a tutor IMO
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I found that the deck is still pretty great. LDV works fine as a tutor IMO
It that betrays is a nice inclusion because it is reasonable against almost any deck.
If I had to choose a creature in my starting hand against an unknown opponent to go along with carerful study and exhume, i would pick ITB.
I'd take inkwell leviathan, iona and empyrial archangel anytime against an unknown opponent.
Reason nr1. Swords to plowshares/path to exile
actually I think that is enough reasons to take on of the other 2. It is a T2 drop, you know which land an opponent plays, so iona is not a complete wild guess. and only a very very few decks can handle that leviathan, iona or empyrial that early in the game.
Not goblins, not zoo, not fish, none.
So why take an extremely situational card when nearly all others are sealing the deal already?
Yeah, I was gonna say, Inkwell is ALWAYS the unknown choice for me. Over half the decks out there play islands so its usually over in 3 turns.Quote:
Originally Posted by practical joke
I always thoght It that Betrays was used to beat Lands.
Inkwell can get Glacial Chasmed into oblivion. It that Betrays might take some time to get there, but every turn they lose 2 lands and you get those lands, more importantly they don't go to the opponents graveyard.
With heavy disruption in hand you could use it to seal a game against aggro quickly.
I still beat lands easily with inkwell,
Just extirpate their loam and voila...a win
what's your SB atm practical? :o
Do lands players not play Ensnaring Bridge in the Netherlands?
Yes, it is good vs lands.
It that betrays is randomly strong against things you run into that sacrifice themselves as well. IE you cannot IGGY loop with ITB in play because i get all your LEDs.
Randomly good against these cards that you may run into:
cabal therapy
dread return
LED
loyal retainers
Knight of the Reliquary
wasteland
fetchlands
recurring nightmare
cursecatcher
siegegang commander
smallpox
pox
barbarian ring
cephalid collisium
Im sure there are tons more that I missed as well....
I have found that this statement is often not true. Zoo merefolk and goblins can often race a turn 2 leviathan off reanimate. Obviously if they dont have a vial iona becomes a strong choice against the mono decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by practical joke
Few more questions.
1. Is green splash really that necessary? We have only sideboard options there. Moment's Peace is not something amazing, we have good MU with most aggro decks. So we have only Krosan Grip, Reverent Silence and Dryad Arbor left - not impressed at all, good shit but we can manage without that, being more resistant to wastelands etc.
2. Can You post Your sideboards? Do You prefer more consistent boards with more numbers (3-4) of the same card? Personally, I play with silver bullets and 2 pieces of Null Rods, etc.
3. When You're boarding in Animate Dead?
we also have a single tutorable maelstrom pulse, which runs nicely with personal tutor
the thing about us losing 4 mystical & 1 echoing truth is replaced by 2 personal 2 ldv & 1 maelstrom
destroying is usually slower but more effective in the long run.. besides, maelstrom answers quite alot of things maindeck
I prefer Turbulant Dreams over Maelstorm Pulse. Pulse can fix multiple diffrent threats at once, costs 1 less to cast and also can help with throwing our fatties straight into graveyards, making them ready to reanimation. We usually need only 1 turn to get, so bounce is not something lame, it brings almost the same benefits that removal. In addition, it's even better in few MUs (Dredge, Mirror, etc).
So, we have only sideboard G options here. I know that propably always G splash is better than no splash, but I must say that. Is it worth that many $$ papers to get these board answers? I'm not shitting money so... :P
What do you think of Skithyrix, The Blight Dragon? It doesn't quite end the game as quickly as other typical targets, but its lower cost is a factor for Reanimate.
The amount of life you preserve probably isn't worth the lack of protection againsted targeted removal spells. :eyebrow:
I still have to see what to do with my sideboard since the change, but this is what I used to have/comes to mind for me.
1x akroma, angel of wrath (Goblins, and a few other decks, situational)
3x nature's claim (any fast-paced artifact hate/leyline)
1x coffin purge (loam, dredge, mirror things like that)
3-4x extirpate (loam, dredge, mirror etc.)
2x krosan grip (counterbalance)
1x Gilded Drake ( with all the fancy, "look I can drop emrakul in your face", I prefer to face those suckers. With maindeck Petals, the chance is legit that you can keep the 2 mana and a drake on hand and blow them out after an attack from the Doomsday pile)
3 open slots, I'm currently not able to think about what I had in there, I might take back a full set of Xantid Swarm.
I used to play extract, but since TES is the new combo, that won't work at all, so that's an open slot ( or the 4th extirpate)
Still have to think about it and test it once again.
So been a while now, I rebuild an fairly simple list and threw it against vengevival.
Vengevival won one game the whole day ( about 15-20 matches) mainboard.
The one game won was due to the screwage I had. ( risky hand, but a loss is a loss)
Sneaky show should be a decent win as well, unless they drop proggy.
It stood not a single chance, a few reasons:
you play more protection than they play counters.
All your creatures are gamewinners
your deck is 1-2 turns faster than they can kill you.
The vengevival gameplan is all over the place and it hardly works. ( manadenial works, but it's also slows their deck a whole lot)
This was my list, fairly simple, but still a whole lot effective and relatively fast.
3 underground sea
1 island
1 swamp
4 polluted delta
4 verdant catacombs
1 bayou
4 lotus petal
4 force of will
4 daze
4 thoughtseize
3 lim-duls vault
4 entomb
4 careful study
4 brainstorm
4 reanimate
4 exhume
3 iona, shield of emeria
1 blazing archon
1 sphinx of the steel wind
1 inkwell leviathan
1 echoing truth
Thinks I like:
it's still as aggressive as when i started building it ( oktober 2009), you need to be aggressive to stand a chance against the fast decks already available in the current meta ( TES, vengevival, Sneaky Show, zoo, goblins etc)
Solid control, solid ways of drawing into your combo
truth still works well with vault
vault sometimes randomly gives you a lot of life-loss against all odds
things I disliked:
6 creatures are not enough, need to change a few things
lim-duls vault is quite contradictive since it's to slow for this build to shine, I might change the 4 cards into more speed ( 3 vault 1 truth, for some creatures) yet lim-duls vault's effect is strong enough to cover up for mystical's loss. Just the T1 mysticals are going to be a huge miss.
In very simple math you should find a creature each time you cast study from you openings hand (each 10 cards should hold a creature), but as usual that never works, so I will add a creature.
I also think that empyrial angel's time is over. The decks are too fast nowadays to be able to cover up her lack of speed in killing an opponent.
Terastodon and It that betrays won't work as well as the other targets will do. The shroud and islandwalk will be necessary to make a finish agaist standstills since sneaky show and vengevival play islands and have no offense against you, but you cannot risk to attack into an emrakul.
With all due respect, this list looks like sucky-ducky ding-dong ;p
First of all, You're missing 1 Show and Tell mainboarded. I can't imagine playing without that, when I have to face grave hate, or some random color locks.
Next - You're playing only 13 lands which is freaking greedy. I can see 4 petals, yeah, but still it looks very doubtfull, especially when You have to face wastelands/sinkholes/etc. Petal can be a nice boost, providing 1st turn reanimation, but I hadn't tested that, so I can't say any more tbh. But 13 lands seems to lol wut.
Echoing Truth seems ok, cuz it's instant cast, but I like some sorcery silver bullet instead. You're not playing Personals, so maybe truth is better here. But You've said that in this build, LDVs seems so painfully, maybe here is the one of the answers? Add 4 thoughtseizes mixed with 8 fetchlands and 4 reanimates and we have great pain here. Most reanimators have that, but they also play Personals, which can make digging with LDVs less painful.
And about 6 creatures - it can be enough, but i would run 3 studies then. But 3 Ionnas are too much imo. On the other hand - I like the idea of cutting It that Betrays. I don't like this card, it wins what is won already (except 43lands and some rly random games)
I've played today in a small tournament (15 peeps) with my UB Reanimator, but I was still missing few key cards, so I won't make any bigger report or sth. Besides of that fact - I did shit job, made a couple tremodous mistakes and finished with 6pts after 5 rounds of swiss. Yeah, shame on me.
Bless Ya.
This list is almost identical to the one I went T100 @ Gp Madrid ( failed by losing the last 3 rounds by screwing up twice and lost once to merfolk)
The only change mainboard is 3 mystical to LDV, just for testing.
I agree the ammount of lands is quite low, but I prefer petals still above lands just to keep the potential. these are personal preferences, change them to lands if you like.
I always played show and tell mainboard, even sideboard.
I never ever used it, with the current decks that continuesly play progenitus, oblivion rings, emrakul and all other crap. Even for reanimate the risk isn't worth it anymore. The chances are pretty high you face a deck that tries to cheat emrakul or progenitus into play, or some defensive card for that matter.
This deck rarely worries about life-loss. Sure the occassion happens you get low, but you'll win at that point.
Thoughtseizes are awesome, combining that with reanimate makes it even more usefull. My sideboard as listed 3 posts above is made to keep the speed up against potential hate cards.
Most ppl who play reanimate accept it as an easy win deck. Most of the time it even is, but the parts where choises have to be made, especially when you have to read an opponent, seeking that one oppertunity, that's when a lot of ppl make mistakes using this deck.
Feel free to comment the deck Mroova, but I need some substantial arguments to take my list into consideration or something to improve.
I've seen the personal tutor lists, and they seem fine. I also think they are to slow for the current meta. I don't think it has the speed to fix it.
Also, I will probably test 4 iona soon together with hapless researcher without LDV just to speed things up, this might sound like a lot, but she is still the one creature you win most matches on when dropping early.
the one deck that has less issues with that could be U/G/B landstill (due to jace + innocent blood), depending on the ammount of counters you have on your hand you have to make a choise and depends on the speed you can drop an iona.
Well, maybe I'm exaggregating a little. I just get used to slower, but more consistent versions of Reanimators.
Don't misunderstand me, I like the idea of playing with acceleration - petals. But I'm worrying because it can be very risky. Risk is something good, if it is calculated, and when it can't ruin Your whole game. But imagine Your starting hand - porno with 1 land and 1 petal. You Entomb for Ionna and Reanimate meets Daze / Fow / sth else. You have 1 land (mostly Underground Sea) which is going to be raped by wasteland. It doesn't seem to be a rare circumstance.
Mainboarded Show and Tell - well, I'm almost sure that You have far more bigger experience with that deck, than me. I'm writing this words after only 100-200 games, so maybe it's not enough, but I'm a big fan of SnT. In my meta game, I can meet several decks that have grave hate mainboarded, and it's hard to answer with bounce (for example - Wheel of Sun and Moon, protected with Sterling Grove). Yeah, I will not face such a situation in every single match, but that's why we have only 1 SnT - it should be only random fetched. You can always treat it like an Force of Will / Careful Study Oil, when it's totally unnecessary, and side out, after the 1st game. I'm greatly convinced that I won't drop this 1 piece of little heaven out ;)
Personal Tutors - You're absolutely right - they are slow, and they can ruin the whole tempo of the deck, but sometimes they're necessary. If You have it on You mainhand, combined with Entomb, You can be almost sure that it will bring 2nd turn Ionna, which is Crucial. I'm only playing 2 of them, because LDV seems to be better option (can fetch almost everything, especially Entomb, and some distrupt, when You're after the Reanimation plan, and You just have to defend Your fatties). I think that 2 Personals and 3 LDV's are fine, but I'm still testing that.
Then beside 4x Thoughtsize (I hardly prefer 2-3 pieces of that, due to pain. It also can be very frustrating when You have so many 1 mana drops. On paper it looks great, but counterbalance wil totally rape You, so do other random techs, such as Chalice with 1 counter). Maybe it's personal playstyle, but I don't miss 4th Thoughtseize. So do the another copies of Ionna. Well, testing the avant-garde decklists is something okay, but 4 copies seems hardcore :P (Imagine Extripate here)
Well, take care, looking for another reply.
short reply due to place and time,
About the thoughtseize and counterbalance. You still play 12 protection spells, while they only have 4 counterbalance.
It's not the best match-up, but some lists have to be the worst. I created this list, just to make sure I win from counterbalance before they drop it.
You only lose from counterbalance when they either blindflip like crazy or have a SDT next to it.
The whole trick with playing reanimate is to see that opening. You don't run blindly into a counter ( sometimes you do, but those are completely different situations)
Also you have to be creative when playing against hate, I run 3-4 nature's claim sideboard to know for sure I won't lose to much speed when dropping my stuff. try winning by using an opponents creature, tarmogoyfs are excellent creatures, dark confidants are not ( unless you have no other choise, but getting hit in the face for 9 is no fun either)
4 copies of thoughtseize have always been fine for me, but I won't judge anyone that thinks 3 are enough. I just prefer to pick them up anytime of the day. It shows me way to much info when I cast one.
- type of deck they are playing
- ammount of possible disruption
- how much time do I have to win?
- Can I even win by taking their fatties.
Anyways, I should test the personal tutor build some more, but it seems unneccessary slow for me.