Thoughts on heaven//earth in the sideboard? Kill a few delvers or wipe death and taxes board from the yard.
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Thoughts on heaven//earth in the sideboard? Kill a few delvers or wipe death and taxes board from the yard.
kozilek's return is still the better option IMO. Double red is not ideal. but the flashback and controlling the damage (with X) could be preferred in some situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by pbrod88
It's castable from the graveyard, which I think gives it the edge over Koz Return. You can dredge it and still be useful for a ground wipe. Not sure if missing out on fliers in that case makes it bad, but DNT does seem to be mostly fliers.
(Of course there's Raking Canopy in that case)
It hits the relevant creatures (their fliers are mostly just beaters with the random aven mindcensor there to get ya)
Kozilek's Return getting through Mom is pretty relevant tho, and typically we want to reduce our dependency on the graveyard post-board against them anyways.
I said reasonable, not easy. MU is mostly a race anyways, a race I am somewhat confidant of winning with 4 Tinkers and 4 Demonic Tutors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
i'm considering re-testing the black splash in response to unfavorable results against miracles, death & taxes, 4c loam, and the rise of food chain. the idea being i'd rather be more proactive with abrupt decay main and thoughtseize + toxic deluge + dread of night from the board. i'm considering moving some or all of the thoughtseize to the main to ratchet up proactivity with early hand hate.
i'm curious to hear what you think of this and if it's smarter to splash blue for engineered explosives, academy ruins, tolaria west, intuition.
the list i'm considering:
2 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Dark Depths
1 Forest
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Crop Rotation
4 Exploration
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
1 Manabond
3 Molten Vortex
4 Mox Diamond
Sideboard:
1 Dread of Night
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Karakas
3 Krosan Grip
1 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thoughtseize
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Toxic Deluge
also, anyone testing walking ballista in the side?
I think blue is giving more than black to the deck. With an recurable Explosives and almost uncounterable Tutor, it is hard for black to compete against the blue addition.Quote:
Originally Posted by b_h_w
My sideboard is as follow :
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Chalice of the Void
3 Krosan Grip
1 Walking Ballista
3 Tireless Tracker
2 Phyrexian Revoker
Sphere of Resistence completely shut down Food Chain, and does a pretty good work against Miracle (at least the Mentor version). Against D&T, Krosan Grip and Revoker help a lot because mana-denial is not a super-plan.
Here are my in/out for these 3 MU :
MIRACLE MONASTERY
+3 Grip +3 Tracker +1 Ballista
-1 Mox -4 Crop -1 Bojuka -1 Karakas
MIRACLE ANGELS
+3 Grip +2 Chalice +3 Sphere +3 Tracker +1 Ballista
-4 Crop -3 Vortex -1 Karakas -1 Bojuka -2 Maze -1 Tabernacle
DEATH & TAXES
+3 Grip +2 Revoker (Vial)
-1 Bojuka -1 Karakas -1 Thicket -2 Tolaria
FOODCHAIN
+4 Sphere +3 Grip +2 Revoker (Foodchain/Ballista/Shaman)
-1 Mox -3 Vortex -2 Maze -1 Bojuka -2 Tolaria
I run the black splash as well. My mana config is a little different (6 fetches, 3 taiga, 1 bayou, 1 forest) and it's been good. But otherwise I think theres only like 4 or 5 cards that are different between our 75.Quote:
Originally Posted by b_h_w
Being able to decay a knight, make them discard a blood moon that they depended on or deluge a whole board of blockers before attacking w/ marit lage makes those cards worth the splash.
For those running the blue splash, see the new Nissa? could do some work. http://mythicspoiler.com/akh/cards/n...ofelements.jpg
It's a Decayable permanent that dosent do much more than a Sylvan Library or a Dark Confidant.
Her ultimate is also a bit under expectation in a Marit Lage deck.
She would have been much better with a +2 Scry 2, then draw a card. But sadly she is not.
yeah very true, i think her home maybe ug post.Quote:
Originally Posted by kravkenov
Fair enough. Just saying it's one of our tougher matches, given we are favoured-to-even vs almost every fair deck in the format as well (as Elves and Dredge).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds
Burn is not a match in which we are favoured.
I think that Boseiju works best in a straight Rg build with manabonds. Whereas decay is already uncounterable, and as you want to hold on decay until needed, Decay and Manabond don't synergise well. So I'd cut both cards for 2 maindeck Sylvan Libraries, to help you filter out decays when dredging. Library is also a really good card along with loam.Quote:
Originally Posted by b_h_w
If im not miscounting you run 10 green sources (besides moxes)? That might be too tight, and perhaps you cut cut a maze for an additional green land?
thanks i'm going to switch back a more tuned version of the black list i posted while a buy another tropical + e.e. blue seems really good right now. thanks for the notes on the matchups. sphere against food chain is super smart.Quote:
Originally Posted by kravkenov
yeah my mana doesn't seem quite right.Quote:
Originally Posted by djxstream
that's a good point. uncounterable life from the loam seems good, not sure if it's worth boseiju main.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingo
yeah i gotta sort my mana base a bit if i run this black splash. i'm convinced blue is where i want to go, it's a matter of finding a tropical and some e.e.
These notes on matchups are not set in stone. If I'm pretty confident on what to bring in, I'm not fully set on the cards to side out.Quote:
Originally Posted by b_h_w
Sorry wrong thread
Ok, so how about this guy in sideboard?
http://mythicspoiler.com/akh/cards/harshmentor.html
Hits basically... everything. Fetches for 3 dmg are especially considerable thing, not to mention Sensei, DRS, Vial... Lots of nasty stuff. Yes, it dies to everything, yes, we don't have free slots in side for sure, but still let's consider that for a moment :)
I think this card will see some home, and we sure will face it at one moment or another. I see it like a "must answer" to any deck that rely on Shaman/Vial/Sensei's Top to grind its way to the victory. It could be the side-board card to go for any deck against Miracle (which do a lot of Shenanigans every time) or D&T which rely a lot on creatures abilities and Vial activation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiktul
The advantage here is that we are already well set up to kill a 2 toughness guy, the disadvantage is if we do not have that ability online when he hits, he hurts a lot.
Not a huge fan of this guy in Lands, if only because without pressure, most decks don't really care if they're at 6 life or 20 life against us. As long as they're reasonably out of Punishing Fire range opponents know that our wincon kills them in one fell swoop anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiktul
Non-competitive banter ahead...
http://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/wp.../04/cascat.png
Reprint of Crystal Quarry but with the added benefit of Indestructible. Anyone want to try out Child of Alara, Genju of the Realm, or Door to Nothingness?
thanks, yeah. i see sideboards and sideboard guides as fairly fluid entities.Quote:
Originally Posted by kravkenov
i'm convinced i should try to the blue splash so i've got a tropical and 3x e.e. on their way. can't wait to do some destruction :)
Yes, against Marit Lage only, HP dosent really matter. But when you get punished by using your fetches/Sensei's Top/Shaman to grind a position where Marit Lage isn't a menace anymore, HP suddenly matter. It's a "10 activation countdown" that will slowly pressure and constraint action freedom to any grindy opponent deck. That said, Harsh Mentor's best home might not be our lands deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by filln
So is Lands at a turning point? Forced to evolve to include blue to support Engineered Explosives + Tolaria West?
I'm a more-casual-than-competitive player who goes to Eternal Weekend and the odd big Legacy event when it roles through the Toronto area but play every Friday at an LGS with some good legacy players and I have seen a rise in BUG decks and our other resident Lands spike has switched to Miracles.
I have thought about trading out of Lands into something else (maybe 4 Color Czech Pile) but the better players at my store are insistent that Lands is still really strong and also want to see me finish my project of assembling almost all Japanese cards for the deck (at 65 of 75).
I still run RG Lands but would need to plop down the money for the EE's to switch to the blue splash...
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The R/G build is still fine, people are a lot more prepared for it so you don't have as many free wins as you used to but the deck has a lot of play to it and many decks struggle against a fast 20/20 still. The blue splash is something people are trying to give it better % against miracles (which is a rough MU to be honest).
For that matter, BUG decks should be great for you, as those are some of our best MUs (except for maybe the basic heavy BUG Aluren build, but I haven't tried that MU).
The meta has become worse, but I don't think switching into RUG Lands changes that much (at least not enough to cough up the money for tropical islands). EE will allow you to deal with anything, but the slower play comes at the cost of many free wins you have from comboing fast in RG. So in the end, you shift winning percentages beween matchups but did you become overall stronger against the field as a whole?
The top 14 hits on mtgtop8 are 9 RG, 4 RUG and 1 RGB. So while RUG is definitely picking up steam, RG is the more played variant. RUG is probably underplayed though.
For what it's worth I think RG pilots who are interested in the blue build should check it out if they can afford it. I really enjoy switching back and forth depending on mood.
One thing about RG that I've noticed recently is having multiple tranquil thickets feels a lot more important than it used to with all the extra deathrites and grindy games I seem to be seeing. I'd been neglecting that card for a while in the effort to jam more utility lands and was really under-appreciating its role in the deck.
Being able to burn through your deck with Thickets plus Manabond is also pretty sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by supremePINEAPPLE
This list is interesting:
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=15262&d=292726&f=LE
It's an RGB list with 4x decay and 4xtop (and a library) to filter. To fit them in, most Ghostquarters, gambles and mazes were cut. Chasm too.
Kind of along these lines, I'm planning to test at my next weekly a GBw list I've been working on. It's built to address Leovold and TNN, of which Punishing Fire is pretty awful against. Once I made the decision to replace it with Abrupt Decay, the value of red seemed greatly diminished with only Gamble remaining. I'm using Entomb instead, which offers some benefits (notably instant-speed) but some downsides as well. I cut a Maze of Ith, and may go down to one. Bolstering the creature control with a spicy one-of Vengeful Pharaoh, which plays pretty nicely with Entomb and Life from the Loam. I'm using three Tops as well, which help against Surgical, provide filtering, and helps me avoid drawing the Vengeful Pharaoh if I don't have a Loam handy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingo
The white splash is mostly for interesting sideboard options (Thalia, Ethersworn Canonist, Sacred Ground), as well as a Nantuko Monastery in the main. I think the Monastery is pretty interesting, especially in Game 1 and can easily eat a Leovold. I'm also weighing putting in a light reanimation package with Unburial Rites but it's still been a bit clunky.
Here's the list so far:
4 Life from the Loam
4 Crop Rotation
4 Exploration
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Entomb
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
4 Mox Diamond
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Nantuko Monastery
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
Sideboard
1 Walking Ballista
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Thoughtseize
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Krosan Grip
3 Tireless Tracker
Potential sideboard cards: Sacred Ground, Boseiju, Rite of Consumption, Toxic Deluge, Unburial Rites, Primeval Titan
I'll try to write a report next week. Maybe the list will end up being more of a meta call and generally inferior, but I figured I'd try some experimentation since Lands has been a bit of a rough patch lately.
I also added a trop, academy ruins and two maindeck EE (+ 2 ballista to the SB) and love the result. This micro-splash doesn't seem to make the RG list much slower but offers sooo many new ways of dealing with miracles.
Agreed. If you keep your 8x Gamble/CR instead of dipping into T.West and Intuition, you shouldn't lose much speed. The drawback is that the EE package really likes those blue tutors.Quote:
Originally Posted by J0n
It's a meta call. The more expect to be grinding, the more you want RUG. The more you expect to race, the more you want R/G.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingo
I think the meta has been shifting in a way that RUG has gotten a little better but RG a little worse (This doesn't necessarily mean RUG is currently a better deck).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingo
But I do believe the player base has been slow to experiment with RUG builds. Possibly this is due to Trops costing money. Possibly "hard control" has less appeal. But for a while it seemed not all R/G players were even aware of the blue builds (or assumed them to be obsolete).
Yeah, me too. Lands.dec is a great archetype for those who like to mix it up. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by supremePINEAPPLE
Nothing adresses TNN, except non-targeted massremoval like EE or -1/-1 counters. Or race it with Marit Lage. The Pharaoh targets, so you won't be able to get TNN this way too. Pfire doesn't really address TNN and Leovold, but it does answer deathrite, and that's a big issue. Removal for non-attacking utility-creatures (deathrite, mom) might be your lists biggest problem, as you only have 3 decays and no tutors to find it. Perhaps Darkblast or Necroplasm could be good entomb targets to help you out.Quote:
Originally Posted by filln
I have played Burning Reanimator some times (involving comboing Grizle, Rites and LED), and I have to admit that I wondered how good of a discard enabler manabond would be here. So maybe there is some common grounds between Lands and Reanimator, featuring manabond and Unburial Rites. But probably you have something different in mind, like a singleton to tutor for, getting a dredged Primetime back?
Which makes me wonder what David Long played at the latest SCG. A blue splash for EE and Ruins, or full RUG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
Glacial Chasm addresses TNN, as does the Tabernacle + Strip lock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingo
While it's true that Decay and Pharaoh don't work on TNN, my only point is that in general it makes PF weaker, so perhaps it would be worthwhile to try out a different color suite. Throwing in a Toxic Deluge in the sideboard is an option too. The Deathrite comment is a good one. Maybe I'll try to fit in a Cabal Pit, but I'm not super keen on it given the need for threshold. The lack of tutors is addressed slightly with the Tops, but you're definitely right it's not quite as good as Intuition or Gamble for PF. Thanks for the great feedback, I'll see how the list goes!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingo
Re: Burning Reanimator, that sounds pretty neat. I do have a Turbo Depths-Reanimator list that I've been meaning to test at a weekly. Uses ESG, Lotus Petal, and Dark Ritual for mana acceleration with the main reanimation targets being Primeval Titan, Grave Titan (which should probably be a Griselbrand, but I have none), or Sire of Insanity. Also runs a Living Wish package for utility creatures + Stage/Depths/Hexmage. It's pretty fun, but a bit fragile still.
Quick question about sideboarding plan against Aggro Loam and Dark Maverick.
From an non-typical RG build with a blue splash for Explosives, Academy Ruins and Tolaria, how would you IN/OUT against Aggro Loam and Dark Maverick with the following Sideboard ? Here is my attempts (and my full list of in/out is here for you who are interested : https://cl.ly/k6Ct/LEGACY_BLUE_GARDEN.txt)
//SIDEBOARD
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Chalice of the Void
3 Krosan Grip
1 Walking Ballista
3 Tireless Tracker
2 Phyrexian Revoker
*AGGRO LOAM
1. Punishing Dark Confidant
2. Set Explosive @3 for Knight
3. Watch Knight of the Reliquary (Fetch for Wasteland, Karakas and Maze) and Ooze
They will side-in Leyline of the Void, Swords, …
+3 Grip +3 Tracker +2 Revoker (Knight/Shaman/Ooze)
-1 Karakas -1 Tabernacle -2 Tolaria -4 OTHERS
*DARK MAVERICK
1. Punishing Shaman/Mother
2. Set Explosives @3 for Knight
They will side-in Surgical and Needle, keep Thicket to cycle into Loam
+3 Grip +2 Revoker (Knight/Shaman/Ooze) +3 Tracker
-1 Mox -1 Karakas -2 Tolaria -1 Wasteland -3 OTHERS
I play a slightly different list. My SB looks like:Quote:
Originally Posted by kravkenov
Sideboard:15
2 Walking Ballista
2 Tireless Tracker
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Sphere of Resistance
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Krosan Grip
against AGGRO LOAM I would normally board like this:
+2 Grip (against Leyline if the opp plays it)
+2 Tracker
+1 Crucible
+1 Ballista
-2 Gamble (opp plays chalice)
-1 barbarian ring
-1 glacial chasm
-1 boseiju
-1 maze (as Maze will normally not stop their Knight)
Sometimes I also board chalices to stop their surgicals and StP.
Top gets banned, RIP Miracles
https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...ent-2017-04-24
So where do we see the meta shifting now? Tons of BGx and 4C decks? Or is the need for BGx lessened since Counterbalance is gone and so the requirement of Abrupt Decay isn't as strong? Could be a resurgence in combo, which wouldn't be great for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by U_mage
From a Lands perspective I'll be putting my Boseiju into storage, as well as my big mana planeswalkers (RIP Chandra, Flamecaller). Kind of bummed out, the Lands vs. Miracles match was one of my favorites. It was never easy but very rewarding to play against.
Yeah, "Miracle is dead", long life to "UWx Control".