This thread should be moved into "Decks to beat" since its one of the best tier1s right now. It beats everything.
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This thread should be moved into "Decks to beat" since its one of the best tier1s right now. It beats everything.
We have a system in place for determining DTBs. Be patient.
And with all due respect, the criteria for that system has been met and therefore, this deck ought to be moved to the decks to beat forum forthwith.
Patients is a virtue this deck doesn't have and since the banning of Mental Misstep, this deck has made the top 8 and top 16 in a lot of large scale legacy events; including placing in second place at the biggest legacy tournament of the year! If this deck isn't a deck to beat in the present legacy metagame right now, I don't know what is! Thresh has conspicuously posted much better results recently then at least three of the decks presently in the DTB forum right now.
The system in place determines not only the criteria for inclusion, but also the frequency with which we add and remove decks to and from the DTB forum. In short, it will get done when it gets done. If you feel the need to discuss it further, please do so via PM so we can keep this thread on track. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonic_Attorney
Using Phantasmal Image against Maverick isn't the best idea. Quirion Ranger/Scryb Ranger can dispatch it very easily. Against the deck you want to push the Tempo angle and not be afraid to use removal on Hierarchs. Be careful not to let Mother of Runes resolve/get active. She can turn the tide completely against Tempo decks and force you to waste too many cards to deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_JKidd
The trouble is that once Maverick lands a threat, it's very difficult to trump it with the cards available in Tempo. The best strategy is to land an early Delver and ride the tempo. Fire/Ice is also really good in this matchup since many of Maverick's support cast are x/1.
Gilded Drake works too, but you'll often end up with a tapped KotR against their mid-range army. Exalted Gilded Drake is also bigger than any of your potential blockers.
I would suggest to keep the SB hate to Submerge and other forms of bounce spells.
My team has been running 3 Submerge and 2 Gilded Drake in the board, alongside a singleton Grim Lavamancer. Submerge on Dryad Arbor is probably your strongest play in this matchup, followed by burning two manadudes with Fire // Ice and stealing a Knight.
Submerge and Gilded Drake also nicely combine. Stealing two of your opponent's Knights is just incredible, especially if they only get a single Drake. You have to land the Drake immediately after they cast the Knight though, if they untap with Knight Of The Reliquary, it will be very hard for you to win.
Landing (and being able to protect) a first turn Delver is also very good in this matchup, as in most others. With evasive beats supported by burn spells you can sometimes also just kill them before Knight becomes relevant.
What you absolutely do not want to face is Scavenging Ooze. That little bastard can easily wreck you.
He's a fucker alright. And the main reason why I don't play this deck too often. My area is in love with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jona
There're three ways of dealing with Maverick in Legacy:
1) Play Tendrils.dec.
2) Play Perish.
3) Fuck up their acceleration.
Canadian Thresh can only do the 3rd option, and that's how it goes. Wasteland/Stifle and killing manadorks is REALLY important against Maverick. Save counterspells for their removal, or big stuff like a KotR and SFM. Grim Lavamancer and Fire//Ice goes a long way against Maverick as well.
Post-board is gets better with Submerges and stealing stuff. Mind Harness is a beast in that matchup. By the time you need it, you'll likely have delievered 10 good points of damage, and a 2 turns Mind Harness should be enough, and it's the best stealing spell avaliable.
Snapcaster Can Thresh looks like its gonna win the SCG Open. Its opponent (BUG) plays like a monkey, but still...
Yay for Can Thresh.
So... Mongoose/Lavamancer/Snapcaster? I must admit that the Snapcasters seem better than I thought, even with 18 lands.
Best way to beat a monkey is to remove all his bananas ;PQuote:
Originally Posted by Seb
What do you guys think of the singleton Temporal Spring I've been seeing in various top-8 lists? Anybody care to comment on that?
It is like the Rushing River / Wipe Away slot from the old school list, very versatile and an answer to Counterbalance. Returning to the library top gains tempo advantage and card advantage, but Sorcery speed is a trade off. Being able to target lands is a nice benefit, as his list already has 4 Wasteland, 4 Stifle and 4 Snapcaster Mage.Quote:
Originally Posted by atropos
If it were instant speed I would play it. But as a sorcery it seems meh at best and seems just worse than dismember. Sure it can put problem non creatures on top but it seems too slow and clunky against because it's a sorcery.
The saving grace of gilded drake being exchanges with knight is that drake can be bolted and killed. I also love the submerge trick with gilded drake, absolutely hilarious to submerge their dude to steal another dude of theirs.
Firespout also works against maverick kind of well because of mom granting protection to one creature to survive. But if they don't have mom out it can be a real blowout.
Agreed on scavenging ooze wrecking us. Good thing ooze isn't mainstream right now because that guy is sick.
You guys may have missed the post-finals discussion with David Thomas on SCG Live.
David is obviously a good player, he says he audibled this deck after playing Dredge for the longest time.
He also says the following (paraphrasing, of course):
- He doesn't miss Mongoose or Fire//Ice at all.
- Temporal Spring was probably a mistake. He boarded it out in almost every matchup, except for a Tendrils matchup where his opponent misplayed anyway.
- In hindsight the CB Top package would have been good.
Not sure if it's going to be archived, but that was the discussion he had with Zach Hill and Gavin Verhey.
Hi!
I have seen som lists running 1-2 Engineered Explosives SB.
Have any of you tested EE?
they seems good on paper
They are very flexible,dodges counterbalance and can even kill a resolved KOTR in 2 turns provided u have 3 lands in play (no wastelands:b)
Any toughts ?
EE has been used in the past to deal with Zoo decks, and really any deck relying on 1-drops. It's a little less effective on 2-drops, but not unheard of. It is very flexible removal that is sometimes good in an aggro metagame, or in anticipation of Dredge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordvoll
Just thought I'd post this here. I played UGW Thresh to a 3-0-1 finish tonight. Here's the list:
18 Land
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Windswept Heath
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Island
4 Wasteland
12 Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Nimble Monoose
1 Vendilion Clique
30 Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Dismember
15 Sideboard
3 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Null Rod
1 Krosan Grip
1 Dispel
1 Gilded Drake
1 Submerge
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Hurkyl's Recall
Round 1 against Ravager Affinity, 2-1
Round 2 against Reanimator, 2-0
Round 3 against Snapcaster BUG, 2-1
Round 4 against 12- Post, ID
Loved the deck. Not too much I'd change about it. I'd play Canadian Thresh, but bolt doesn't get rid of the creatures I care about.
Well (really crazy suggestion coming up) maybe you could run dismember 'over' bolt and do a 4/2 split of dismember and bolt favoring dismember. Since dismember kills almost everything except for terravore and kotr sometimes but in those cases you can use it as a combat trick sometimes.
I wouldn't waste 6-8 slots on counterbalance top in the SB of canadian thresh. I see zero reason to run that package; it's meh against aggro, alright against control, and really good against combo (why do we need to improve combo again? If you're really worried run flusterstorm in the side). The only good card in the package is sensei's top and that's because it filters draws. But I don't see why we should run the package when we run only 18 lands so its hard to even get it online turn 3 if we miss our third landdrop. If you want to play counterbalance I suggest you play a deck focused on counterbalance in the MD.
Losing 4 life every time you cast Dismember is highly relevant, especially in the aggro matchups, which is where you need removal the most. I think 2 is the maximum you want to run in the deck. Besides, when Random says that Bolt doesn't answer the creatures he wants to answer and StP does, he's referring specifically to KotR, which Dismember often can't touch anyway. There are also various Reanimator creatures where StP outshines Dismember as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Ritual
The main problem with white (aside from the lack of REB for the Spiral Tide/Hive Mind matchups) is that Bolt also gives you reach in the late game, and that matter more often than you might think.
If my swords were bolts in game two against BUG Control, I would have one. But overall being able to remove his Goyfs helped more. But yeah, red is probably better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zilla