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Wow it seems this is the new thing :) after the last weekly legacy I still lack experience with probes they didn't seem to shine yet as I fought 12 post (easy win), Maverick which I boarded them out for more relevant cards and well crushed team italia and lost to death and taxes. No tempo matches yet :laugh:
Well, I played 2 Probes in May at the last Bazaar of Moxen, finishing 11-4 in 19th place. It's really a matter of how you like to play the deck; Christopher Brunner (friend of mine, made Top 8 at Strasbourg) for example dislikes them, because he can read his opponent well enough and rather has more counters and additional "real" cantrips like the 1-of Preordain.
I've played Probe in Sneak Attack for ages because I hated Daze, it and Overmaster are probably the best cards in order to resolve your threats as quickly as possible, but unfortunately they leave you defenseless vs discard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunday Funday
Anybody have thoughts on Swan Song in here?
I think Swan Song is really good against us... Not so good for us.
Caleb wrote that its going to be good in the mirror. I agree.
It's nice since it's a hard counter, but I just don't know which decks will want it. I guess if omni and sneak and show decks place highly in a lot of upcoming tournaments then people might sb it, but I'd prefer to play a counter that doesn't leave a body.
anyone have ideas as to why this deck has not actually taken first in any tournaments? It places well and consistently enough to be a DTB but never seems to take first...whats up with that?
Personal expereince suggests the deck will simply shit on itself at least one time where you simply won't win in a large scale tournament. With that in mind the question is will this happen in the swiss or the single elims?
I've placed top 8 or better in the last 8 tournaments or so with this deck at my local shop but the last 2 times were disastrous. Last weekend, I was facing omnitell that was going to kill me next turn. I drew 14 cards off griselbrand-all I needed was 1 of 3 lotus petals remaining in the deck or 1 of 3 force of wills....drew nothing. Next game I dug 19 cards deep (14 off griselbrand, ponder+shuffle, 1 gitaxian probe) just to find 1 of 4 emrakuls. Didn't find jack squat and died to lab maniac.Quote:
Originally Posted by nodahero
This sums up my experience with the deck as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by nodahero
I still think this is a very reasonable deck to play in torunaments though. You are trading random bad draws for a much more straightforward deck and in GPs or other large events you can't undervalue mental endurance.
I would rather play this deck at a GP then say Storm and that is my other deck of complete comfort simply because this deck requires significantly less thinking because the lines are much more straight forward.
Not to brag or anything but I have taken a 1st place once :) It is true though that sometimes no amount of drawing and cantripping will get you out of a bad luck!!!
Well, it did take first three times at SCG Opens in 2013, I think that's pretty good.
Has anyone tried Stifle? I'am impressed...
What did you replace? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MeddlingMageGR
I can't say what I replaced, because - here - everyone plays a different variation of Sneak and Show. Many players in here have different point of view about the deck. For example, some play Daze, some others not. Some play Spell Pierce, some others not. Some play Intuition, some others not. These are... around 8 open slots to improvise.Quote:
Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
Something else. I cant see decklists having 1 or 2 copies of a card. For example 1 Preodrain, 2 Daze, 1 Inuition, 2 Gitaxian Probe... Some cards are intended to play in 4 copies. Or zero. There is no sense in playing 2 Dazes... Daze is an early counterspell, so you have to have it 4 times just to increase the possibilities to find in in the first 8-10 cards. And in late game, because its a free counterspell, you want to have it as many times as you can to fight a contingent counterwar while you try to cast Sneak or Show. In that situation, its better to have 2 Dazes in hand rather than 2 Spell Pierce. The 2 extra mana that I need is.. luxury. The same applies for Preodrain. You already use 4 Brainstorn and 4 Ponder. Just 1 Preodrain has no sense.
So... my personal rules about that deck are :
a)All cards 4 times. 60 cards minus 19 lands = 41 spells. You cant devide 41 in 4... so the closer option is to play 10 cards of 4 +1. But as i said before... I dont like playing single cards. 39, 38, and 37 and not devided with 4. So the next option is "36". Yes 36 gives us 9 cards from 4 copies, plus (+) 5 free slots. For these free slots I choose 2 Misdirections and 3 Stifles.
b) All counters must be free counters. 4 Force of Will, 4 Daze, 2 Misdirection sounds like the best recipe. 10 spell counters and 3 board counters (Stifle) makes a huge arsenal.
I need the board counters because Show and Tell has vulnerabilities for about a DOZEN of cards.
1) Karakas
2) Liliana of the Veil
3) Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4) Oblivion Ring
5) Stingscourger
6) Venser, Shaper Savant
7) Omniscience
8) Mangara of Corondor
9) Maze of Ith
10) Guilded Drake
11) Gatekeeper of Malakir
12) Phyrexian Obliterator
These cards DIRECTLY affect our combo.
non-Directly, but automatically "lose the game" cards and combos : Storm Decks, Cascade Decks, Dark Depths decks, Goblin Charbelcher, Helm of Obedience, Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, Kuldotha Forgemaster...
plus "pain in the neck" cards : Wasteland, Goblin Piledriver, Goblin Lackey, Stoneforge Mystic, Qasali Pridemage,
plus the Synergy with the Sneak Attack's "delayed triggered ability", make Stifle No.1 card of these 8 open slots. No doupt about that.
So, finally my decklist is the... same as it was in page 91.
/ Lands
3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [B] Volcanic Island
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
3 [UNH] Island
2 [EX] City of Traitors
1 [UNH] Mountain
// Creatures
3 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 [AVR] Griselbrand
3 [CFX] Progenitus*
// Spells
4 [M10] Ponder
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [US] Show and Tell
4 [US] Sneak Attack
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
2 [MM] Misdirection
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
3 [SC] Stifle
About the 3 Progenitus, is a choise that hasn't dissapointed me. Its blue for Fow and MisD, and untargetable / unstopable 10dmg in the head. He deserves a second look.
I don't think Progenitus is better then the 4th Emrakul or Griselbrand. They are simply better then Progenitus with a single attack and have a much bigger board presence then Progenitus does. Perhaps a singleton would be viable but there is no way he is better then Progenitus and Griselbrand.
Also there is the concept of diminishing returns. If you really are against singletons I suggest learning about the concept... It taught me alot. In a way this concept lead to ANT playing fewer and fewer AdNeausem to where it is today (loosely mind you, but it did get factored in).
Probe is very good also vs aggro and canadian but it get too slowly the deck vs aothers MU.
@ blindspotxxx: if it's necessary I play 2 TTB whit 1 Leyline and 1 slot to cut, but for mirror I prefere to use esperience and trick. Mirror it's not to much frequent.
TTB help us also with aggro like maverick, but I prefer use also sneak and intuition.
With boseiju , I'm confirm to beat post side miracle that' s a tier1 .
It's only choise.:smile:
I choise for a Tier 1.
I played this weekend the Ovino tournament in Milan with more tan 400 people. playing obviusly sneak and show. Ended 7-2 loosing 2 match only vs painters and elves.
vs painters 1st game I mange to win even if he has a esnaring bridge on the field but he rebs my griselbrand and I misdirect to the bridge holding after a Wall of counters. 2nd game I show and tell into the field and he put an enchantment that when a creature or enchantment comes into play he switches for another of the same type. He targets his guy I just pyroblast it. So he has no legal target to Exchange. He has no cards in hand. And im at like 11 life. He ddraws a simian spirit guide and plays it. I draw 7 find no forcé he gets my griselbrand and I lose. 3rd game I made a missplay cause i brainstom and put swansong on top instead of the ponder I wanted to. Play thought the breach and he has 2 red mana and 4 cards in hand. I have emrakul, forcé, a blue card, and the ponder I thought was the swansong. He plays reb, I play forcé, He plays another reb with no more mana up and I play the ponder. Then realice Its not the swansong... BOOM. the images looked similar en my mind got destoyed. I should never lose this matchup. Was prety sad...
The other round I lost was vs elves:
where 1st game i just destroy him in the usual way. and then 2nd game I keep a hand with show and tell, petal, tomb, 2 pyroclasm, emrakul, ponder. Its not the hand I like but I have to keep u,u.
he starts forest elf, I make show and tell he puts a visionary into play. Next turn he puts the girl that gives 3 mana taping 3 elves. then glimpse, draws like 7 cards and ends with like 12 permanets or so. I swing he sacrifices. Then next turn he topdecks natural order and the behemoth kills me. 3rd game I resolve a few cantrips, have mana, have some counters for his plays But find no creature. When Im at 4 life and he has 2 simbionte and like 6 elves wich are atacking me. I draw a griselbrand to his 0 cards in hand. But he can jut atack with his team and bounce the guy I block.
Was sad to lose this matchup also where I usualy win but... thats magic...
I think that where my matchups:
painters 1-2
shardless 2-1
I dont remeber but some creature deck I think. 2-x
elves 1-2
shardless 2-0
Belcher 2-0
merfolks 2-1
sneak atack 2-0
goblins 2-1
7-2 ended 26th and got 4 deathrite chaman 2 of them english 2 of them chinese.
This is my deck wich also got the day before my friend to make top 8 at a 50 people trial.
4 sneak attack
4 show and tell
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 force of will
2 swan song
3 flusterstorm
1 misdirection
2 senseis divining top
4 lotus petal
4 griselbrand
4 enrakul the aeons torn
3 island
1 mountain
2 misty rainforest
2 pollued delta
4 scalding tarn
3 ancient tomb
2 city of traitors
3 volcanic island
side deck
1 pyroblast
2 red elemental blast
3 defense grid
2 echoing truth
4 pyroclasm
1 throug the breach
2 boseiju who selters all
I dont have my side deck plans here right now, but If someone wants I can post it up.
I know its a wird list, but I have played It similar some thime and won a ton of events and got a lot of tops with it.
Best regards Rodrigo Togores
Wow your report makes me wanna try out Swan Songs in my deck. How were they? I guess I can cut 1 Spell Pierce for 1 Swan Song