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The main reason to run Worldspine Wurm is so you can get your Timmy on.
Tap four elves, sacrifice Dryad Arbor to cast Natural Order -> Worldspine Wurm
Tap Cradle for 5, Natural Order, sacrificing Wurm, get 3 tokens -> Worldspine Wurm
Cradle as land drop for turn, tapping for 8, cast Natural Order, sacrificing Wurm, get 3 more tokens; cast last Natural Order, get Craterhoof.
It's like Grapeshotting your opponent except with green creatures. Hunting Pack doesn't count.
Anybody who pulls that off in a sanctioned match gets the title "Timmy of Titania."Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
Thanks all! I'll order one asap - I'm going for the Timmy play :).
by the way, Julian, I followed your comments on the Twitch stream during the elves matches - great stuff.
I think Worlspine Wurm depends on situation we have met. Im 100% sure he is imba against jund. Many times we get e.plague naming elves, so we get progenitus instead of hoof cuz we were afraid of lilliana and we didnt had much creatures to "grow". Then we play porgenitus and hope he wont die giving to our opponent 1-2 turns.
As for jund i think we can easilly -2 hoof, and add +1 Progenitus and +1 Wurm. Worlspine Wurm is mainly good for jund and decks that use nuch mass removal + liliana. Even if we cant win in 1 turn(cuz no hoofs in deck) each of these cards ends game :)
As for BUG its a bit risky, submerge will stop our Worlspine Wurm tactic, while Porgenitus is untouchable. (but only 2 decks in top16 used submerge)
Think that guy was afraid of toxic deluge very much, and thats a reason why he put this wurm, but as you guys can see top8 - 1x toxic deluge 9-16 2xtoxic deluge (3x in top16), no Persih , and only 5 copies of Lilliana in top16.
Havent testes it against SnT, need to test much so will know how it works. So if its only for BUG and Jund witch is quite good machup for us, i prefere to put smth against Ant/tes or miracle in taht spot.
:)
Hello comrades,
I got back from playing the Brazilian National Legacy tournament, as I previously stated.
It was a 8-Round, 153-Players tournament. (Not very big for the US/Europe standards, I know, but still a big one for the 'Legacy scene' on my country.)
I started the day well, but unfortunately ended it up not satisfactorily.
MATCHES:
R1) vs. DEATH AND TAXES = 2 x 0
R2) vs. SNEAK AND TELL = 2 x 1
R3) vs. JUND = 2 x 0
R4) vs. RUG DELVER = 1 x 2
R5) vs. UWR DELVER = 0 x 2
R6) vs. GW M@VERICK = 2 x 0
R7) vs. UW MIRACLES = 2 x 0
R8) vs. UWR DELVER = 0 x 2
Position: 31st
The list with which I played can be found HERE.
BRIEF COMMENTS:
- On R2G3, my Spell Pierce countering a Sneak Attack got my opponent by surprise and get me the time to resolve a Natural Order > Ruric Thar, the Unbowed. That was a very tense moment.
- On R3G3 a misplay on my timing to activate my DRS was possible what made me lose that game (and the match). I blame myself so hard for that...
- I was proud of beating Miracles by 2-0. Specially after facing 2x Terminuses and a Moat on G1; and a Terminus, a Moat and a Humility on G2.
- I need help to approach the Tempo MUs. Specially against this new Patriot ‘plague’. Argh… if felt so miserable to face it…
- Despite not facing it, I saw the new Merfolk, True-Name Nemesis all around. That was one of the reasons on why I kept a Viridian Shaman maindeck, and I think I’ll leave it there for a while. Because of it, I expect to see many Toxic Deluges around too, so I’m interested on the discussions on it that are happening.
That’s it. Nothing exciting.
Just a moderate performance which I still wanted to share, since I really put my best efforts on it.
Sincerely,
- André
153 players, by any standard, is nothing small. I see your on the 61 card kick as well, seems to be catching. Good job, you still out placed the majority of the tournament. Of course the only card I'm looking at is your Spell Pierce. I haven't seen counter spells in Elves since the early part of summer. How did it work for you in other matchups other than the Sneak and Show one?Quote:
Originally Posted by andrebonotto
Tournament Report for Ben Ketel, 30th at Grand Prix: Washington DC
Hello everyone, figured I'd do a quick and dirty game-by-game of my pretty nice weekend in DC. I went into the tourney with no byes ready to battle with the following list:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Heritage Druid
4 Wirewood Symbiote
3 Quirion Ranger
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Elvish Mystic
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Viridian Shaman
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Natural Order
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Gaea's Cradle
SB:
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Progenitus
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
I considered either doing a 61-card special for an additional Dryad Arbor, but didn't feel strongly enough about it to get another one. I played Ruric Thar in the main three weeks ago in the Eternal Weekend and while I think it was correct to do so there I decided against it this weekend and it ended up being a good choice. 3 Decay was great as well. I played in one grinder on Friday and got 9 packs after punting against Storm by not leaving DRS up when he went to Past in Flames game 3.
Round 1 - Justin on UWR Homebrew
No byes = playing nonsense decks. Well, at least this nonsense deck didn't have sweepers or counterspells. Game 1, he played a Legacy's Allure which stole my turn 1 DRS after I used it to play out my hand of Elves. He plays two Delver of Secrets, but I draw two Cradles which let my hardcast my Craterhoof on my turn 4. Game 2, he Merchant Scrolls for Cunning Wish. I cast Glimpse and chain into some amount of elves. He then Cunning Wishes for Orim's Chant, but lacks another mana to cast it in response to my Natural Order for Craterhoof. I never asked him what he was actually playing, but he said he was handed the deck and was just playing because he was close. Whoever gave him that pile of stuff is a dummy. :tongue:
Round 2 - Jesse on Maverick
Game 1, he has a turn 2 Thalia with GW lands puts him on Maverick. Too bad Thalia doesn't prevent me from casting my hand of one drops and when he casts Sylvan Library on T3, I respond in kind with Natural Order. Game 2, he has Hierarch into Mother of Runes and Sylvan Library, but he doesn't have a Wasteland for my Cradle which goes crazy with my turn 1 Llanowar Elves and 2 of both Symbiote and Visionary (best friends forever!). I find Behemoth eventually.
Round 3 - Paolo on RUG Delver
Game 1, my first Glimpse is FOWed, my second resolves which chains into a huge board which is backed up by two Natural Orders in hand. Game 2, he Bolts my turn 1 Quirion Ranger, Submerges my turn 2 Nettle Sentinel, then presents a clock with Tarmogoyf. Scavenging Ooze, however, shows up and ruins Goyf's party, his next Delver is met with an Abrupt Decay, and then a Visionary finds a Behemoth which I can hardcast evidently. I really wonder how many times I hardcasted him this weekend...
Round 4 - Riley on Elves!
My first loss, as he wins the die roll. We turn 3 NO all three games (although mine was significantly more lucky as he TSed me for my GSZ and I topdeck my NO to kill him).
Round 5 - Tom on Sneak and Show
Game 1, he gets stuck on Island, Lotus Petal for a long time. He Forced my Natural Order at one point, but I go on the aggro plan and kill him with dudes and DRS activations. Game 2, I have very little gas and he has plenty of time to Sneak Attack into Griselboo, which finds the Emrakul. Game 3, I keep a hand with Cabal Therapy, some elves, and NO. I Cabal Therapy and he Forces. He goes land, Petal go. I draw my Progenitus (/facepalm) and Therapy him again (this time trying to get Emrakul) and I get Spell Pierced. I cross my fingers and pray to the Elven gods, who answer my prayers when my opponent A) Show and Tells and B) doesn't have Emrakul. He dies to Progenitus. I actually did this play during the grinder too, although my discard spells actually resolved (on Sneak Attack and Emrakul).
Round 6 - Will on UWr Miracles
My second loss of the tournament. Game 1, he has natural turn 1 Top, turn 2 CB against my hand of mostly 1-drops. Game 2, we race each other with Clique and DRS but he wins when he gets Karakas going on Clique to keep me from drawing relevant cards.
Round 7 - Sam on Goblins
Game 1, he gets an okay board presence and gets me down to 7 with lethal the next turn, but he taps out to do so and dies to the Hoof (not sure how, not many notes). Game 2, I TS and see Mindbreak Trap, Thalia, 2x Warchief on his mull to 6 with only two land. I take Thalia and start to grow my board presence while he gets stuck goes Warchief into Ringleader which finds him Matron and Chieftain. I Glimpse chain into Scavenging Ooze (during which he never casts MBT) and get him up to 4/4. He casts Chieftain and attempts to Incinerator the Ooze, but I have Abrupt Decay to take out the Chieftain and swing the game heavily in my direction. The Ooze grows to a 10/10 during the course of the game until he becomes a 17/17 which some vigor from a Craterhoof off of GSZ which took me forever to find.
Round 8 - Oscar on UW Miracles
Great, this MU again. Game 1, he kills me with Clique after Terminusing my board twice. Game 2, he mulls to 5 and loses hardcore to turn 4 NO after I get rules-lawyered during a Glimpse chain (Side Note: Yes, I get the point that I'm supposed to know my triggers, but I'm sorry I couldn't come up with the response to your statement of "Resolves" with "the spell or the glimpse trigger?" I know we are both playing for Day 2 but that is stooping really low in my eyes). Game 3 is a long, drawn-out affair, the highlight of which when I Abrupt Decay both his Counterbalance and his followup Clique. I kill him on turn 3 of turns with DRS.
Round 9 - Arthur on Jund
Game 1, he casts Abrupt Decay and Punishing Fire on my first two creatures, but he doesn't have three lands for a long time and I overwhelm him with Hoof. Game 2, he mulls but has discard which slows me down while he gets Bob to refill his hand. He casts a second Bob, which gets him more removal but also ticks his life total down to nine. I topdeck a NO, which allows me to swing with the Viridian Shaman I forgot to side out (doh!) and Craterhoof for the win.
Yay! Day 2 which is a first for me!
Round 10 - Mark on Merfolk
Game 1, he has the billion lords hand with no counterspells and dies after a Glimpse chain. Game 2, I mull down but keep an okay hand that is just slow. He has a lot of Mutavaults into Reejery and Phantasmal Image. I do my coolest play of the tourney when he attacks with Reejery, Image, and two Mutavaults into my Wirewood Symbiote, Elvish Mystic, and Viridian Shaman (needed the 2/2). I block Shaman on Reejery and Mystic on a Mutavault, then activate Symbiote bouncing the Mystic targeting the Image. He is left with just Mutas and I have everything minus the Shaman. I win with NO later.
Round 11 - Steven on Dark Maverick
Game 1, he has Gaddock Teeg into both Mother of Runes and Knight of the Reliquary, but I find Cradle and hardcast Behemoth. Who needs NO anyway? Game 2, he has a very hateful hand of Canonist into Engineered Plague (which I Decay), into Enlightened Tutor into Jitte. I can't deal with everything. Game 3, his TS takes my Glimpse over Decay which ended up being a very wrong choice. I get a small board with Cradle and find NO into Progenitus and kill his recently-cast Knight with Decay which would have found Marit Lage and kill me before Progen kills him.
Round 12 - Elliot on Death and Taxes
Game 1, he sees I'm Elves with my Elvish Mystic and goes Revoker on Heritage Druid blind. I play out my non-Heritage-having hand with Cradle and NO him turn 3. Game 2, I get a quick turn 3 NO into Progenitus which he can't deal with.
Round 13 - Tom on UR Delver
Game 1, he has 2 Bolts for my first plays and TNN, but I play out many other elves which include two Visionaries, Nettle Sentinel and Symbiote. I find NO into Hoof and he has no Force. Game 2, he gets a turn 2 flipped Delver and he does a better job racing than my DRS which is the only thing that lives after he gets Grim Lavamancer. I attempt to NO into Ruric Thar at the last possible moment, but he has Submerge. Game 3, I protect a DRS until I finally hit 6 mana for Ruric Thar.
Round 14 - Bob (16th) on Team America Delver
Game 1, we both play DRS. He Hymn to Tourachs me, so I think he's Shardless. He then Dazes my next Visionary, eliciting a raised eyebrow from me. I draw three Cradles this game, all which get Hymned or Wastelanded. He finds Tombstalker to threaten me in the air but I finally get NO to kill him. Game 2, I get a quick NO into Progenitus and despite him having two DRS and active Delver the race ends in my favor.
Round 15 - Sam Black (T4) on Bant
You can see the coverage here, starting around 5:35:00. Game 1, I simply played to my outs despite drawing both Craterhoofs and sandbagging the hell out of that Cradle. I think Sam needed to be more aggressive; if he had swung with the Ooze, I would have been forced to block and not have enough creatures to cast Hoof which I very clearly had. I also realized I should have attacked with the V. Shaman over DRS as it might have mattered a lot. Game 2 was unfortunate as that Clique basically won him the game. I usually fetch Forest then Bayou when I have two fetches, but I guess I will reconsider in the future when I have Decay in hand. Either way, mull to 5 hurts a lot. Game 3, I made my worst mechanical mistake of the tournament which was casting that T2 Glimpse. I got excited when I drew the Cradle as with DRS or Llanowar Elves in play and Heritage Druid in hand means an easy T2 Glimpse, but Quirion Ranger is neither of those things. I love how the commentators thought he was wrong to Envelop when Sam was perfectly right. I got blindsided by Humility as I didn't really look over specifics of Reid's deck (namely SB) before the tourney and lost game 3 because of it. Well, I know better now and would have SBed a lot differently (i.e. more discard I think...). I've learned my lesson and am better because of it.
All in all, I had a great time and definitely had luck on the match-ups I faced all weekend. I honestly don't think I could have picked a better deck and if I had held up my edge and known more about Sam Black's deck I could have had won my PTQ final as well. With Eternal Weekend and the GP, my Legacy fire was lit again and I'm proud with how well I've done. We'll see what happens in the future; I'm moving to Detroit this week and might look into some local SCG Opens in the near future. I want to keep this up before the meta shifts significantly against Elves (not saying it will after this GP, but you never know).
Awesome read! Thx for putting this one together
One deck that I absolutely hate seeing when playing Elves is Reanimator. Fast combo, disruption and a beast that kills everything (Elesh). No, I do not want to see that thing!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Congrats on the finish, love your build. Time to do some editing on mine perhaps ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjammn
And yes, Elves is broken :P
On the Sam Black match, when you went for NO(Visionary=>Shaman) facing Jitte, you could've alternatively done NO(DRS=>Symbiote), which likewise takes care of Jitte but provides you with draw power to get out of the rut. It's a bit more risky, but you were behind by a lot so might as well go for broke.
Thanks! :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by yaWgnorW
61 cards:
I was having trouble trying to find what to cut. I wanted both Ruric Thar and Viridian Shaman MD (plus, I didn’t want to lose any of the SB cards I had chosen.)
So, since Julian Knab had success with his 61-cards deck, I decided to accept the 'risk' of playing the extra card for, in my thoughts, it felt better to me having the 'handicap' of the extra card than having the one of lacking one of the cards that I wanted.
If I were to cut the extra card, I would lean toward cutting one Needle from SB, then move Viridian Shaman to its place.
But the 61 cards was just the compromise which I liked better at the time.
Tropical Island MD / 3x Spell Pierce SB:
I wanted to reinforce my T1 answers against combo decks (since, normally, they would start on the play on G3, and a T2 answer from our side could not be fast enough there, namelly, against storm).
But I didn’t want to play more than 4 discard effects, since I wanted to avoid having all of them dead to a Leyline of Sanctity (Show and Tell decks have great presence here, and I faced this situation more than once, before). The answer to be chosen should be efficient against storm too, so I opted to split my combo hate between 4x discard and 3x countermagic, hoping to catch my opponents by surprise with the latter.
I chose Spell Pierces instead of Envelops for its greater targeting range.
At the tournament, I used the Spell Pierce only against my Sneak and Tell oponent , so, I don't have a broad experience with the card. I don't know if I should have sided it in against any of the other MUs that I faced...
Congratulations! That was a nice read and performance! :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjammn
You must have been very tense when making that comeback on your last turn, G1 against Sam Black... It was a shame that you didn't get to take that whole match ...
I think that would be a really really risky move to make against a deck that has Swords to Plowshares, Brainstorms, and an active Jace TMS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
I would certainly go for the guaranteeded Jitte destruction.
EDIT: Wohoo! My 100th post! :laugh:
I'll write out my SB plan for these lists with my MD/SB from the GP that you can see in my report above. I'll go ahead and say that when I side things out I usually do a bunch of one-ofs that I take out in the approximate following order: Heritage Druid, Elvish Visionary, Quirion Ranger, Wirewood Symbiote, GSZ. Anyways, here goes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Berger
Storm: +4 Cabal Therapy, +2 Thoughtseize, +1 Thalia, +1 Gaddock Teeg, +1 Rurik Thar, -3 Elvish Visionary, -1 Viridian Shaman, -5 one-ofs. We want as many discard spells and preventative measures as humanly possible. Visionary is way too slow, but leave one in to Zenith for with Symbiote if the game goes long.
Miracles: +3 Abrupt Decay, +1 Progenitus, +1 Gaddock Teeg, +1 Harmonic Sliver, (+2 Thoughtseize), -1 Craterhoof Behemoth, -1 Viridian Shaman, -4-6 one-ofs. Abrupt Decays for CB are crucial. Gaddock Teeg is for the sweepers and Harmonic Sliver can kill CB as well off of GSZ. Progen, despite being Terminus-able, still takes out huge chunks of their life total and demands the sweeper. I like TS just to be a bit proactive about other hate cards like Supreme Verdict or Pyroclasm, but I can see not needing those either.
Shardless, RUG, UWR, Maverick, Merfolk, Goblins, DNT, Jund: +3 Abrupt Decay, +2 Thoughtseize, +1 Progenitus, +1 Scavenging Ooze, -1 Craterhoof Behemoth, -6 one-ofs, (-1 Viridian Shaman vs. RUG, Jund). Their hate is usually permanent-based, so no matter what it is, TS and/or Decay can kill it. Decay is also really good vs. Delver of Secrets out of the RUG, BUG, and UWR lists. Viridian Shaman stays in to deal with Aether Vials, Jitte, Strix/Shardless, Batterskull, and to go to town on DnT, but it doesn't do anything vs. RUG or Jund so side it out in those MUs. Also, none of these decks have cards that deal with Progenitus outside of Liliana of the Veil, so try to keep some creatures around. Scavenging Ooze is also a must-kill for many of these decks.
Elves: +4 Cabal Therapy, +2 Thoughtseize, -1 Viridian Shaman, -2-3 Elvish Visionary, -2-3 one-ofs. The mirror is all about speed. Discard is vital to stop your opponent from killing you on T3 or even T2. Also, a trick die to win the roll would be a good thing. :wink:
Sneak and Show, Omnishow: +4 Cabal Therapy, +2 Thoughtseize, +1 Progenitus, +1 Gaddock Teeg, +1 Harmonic Sliver, (+1 Ruric Thar, +1 Thalia vs. Omnishow), -3 Elvish Visionary, -1 Craterhoof Behemoth, -1 Viridian Shaman, -4-6 one-ofs. You try to strip their combo pieces and resolve an NO ASAP. Based on what your opponent has, you should judge what you actually get with NO. If your Omnishow opponent is stumbling on lands, get Ruric Thar. If you can win with Hoof, get it, but otherwise heavily consider Progenitus as he limits the amount of drawing they can do with Griselbrand. Sneak Attack is really bad for us. Consider keeping hands with Progentius/Ruric Thar if you think you can manipulate your opponent into Show and Telling (i.e. strip Emrakul and Cunning Wish instead of Show and Tell).
This is more a point for discussion, but what are everyone's thoughts on the amount of natural orders and glimpses in the main deck? I feel like natural order is the much stronger card compared to glimpse, and even in multiples I prefer having 2 natural orders instead of 2 glimpses in hand. Would something like -1 glimpse + 1 natural in the main hold any merit?
You can force in playsets of both within a 60-card list without trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atikin
I run 4 of each and like it like that. I would lean towards cutting NO over Glimpse personally. NO is the more powerful card that wins games, but more often that not a 5 card draw off the back of Glimpse gets me that NO I need.
Alright.
After my dissapointing finish at GP DC, I decided to shelves ELVES! for a couple months(maybe until GP Paris???!)
Bad match ups(seriously....Spanish Inquisition Round 4?);
Slight misplay that costed me games and lack of preparation from my part costed me a Day 2 at the GP.
Still love the deck but I think I need to put my head into something else in the following months in order to not get bored by the deck.
Debating about sleeving TES or some storm combo.
It's the natural drain by sticking at a single deck for too long. I have the same with TES atm and going to give the Elves a ride or toying around with Miracles once more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayradis
Wish you the best, Gabe
Thanks Peter!
BTW, you Xmas present should be leaving Canada today ;)
Hope you enjoy it!
So....you're going to Elves and Im going to TES?
Let's swap decks?
I have both decks pretty much fully foiled so there's no need. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Kayradis
I'm not sure how well positioned TES is with the recent metashift away from midrange towards Tempo and the next already on the horizon (thx to TNN). Battling Esper Deathblade (counter + discard + hatebears) or similar colored tempo-decks for weeks now leave a bad Taste in my mouth for running TES, as this decktypes + several Miracles is all I'd face through BoM and the following weeks.
Could only get better if peeps craft their decks around TNN, I guess ;)
Edit: I may found some nice stuff for you at the BoM. Maybe get grip of BigUp aka Malte in Berlin and get the stuff altered ^_^
If you want to play something totally different I suggest Burn or Painter. I have burn sleeved for when I just hit the wall and do not want to think. I play Painter when all I want to do is think. The other deck I like is Goblins, but I stuck with that deck for 9 straight years and will not touch it now. I am taking a year break from them. If you want to test them out I can send you a list.