Look for Tom4ik's list a couple of pages back. I've seen other lists on Council, but as far as I know he's the only active poster working on that style at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
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Look for Tom4ik's list a couple of pages back. I've seen other lists on Council, but as far as I know he's the only active poster working on that style at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
BUG list has been on my mind aswell for a long time, but what troubles me is what exactly are going to/try to find with all the cardadvantage and mana we create?Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Are we going for a GSZ package or not? Or do we make a mix of GSZ targets with just 2 GSZ MD and run the value creatures that blue has to offer. What about a Planeswalker heavy list? Is BUG currently the right color splash to run? Is it fast enough to keep up or do we have tools to push our opponent to our level?
White splash and Red splash offer some great tools, but lack cardselection. Blue offers cardselection, but is somewhat lackluster in boardcontrol. I really want to run a deck that ramps into Jace, Clique and Tasigur. DTT is a must, but this deck is not the deck that exploits it to the fullest. While giving thus a lot of thought it just does not get me anywhere. Probably this is not to helpful, but i am hoping to tigger other to try to contribute into building a better/good BUG NicFit list.
The current list I'm testing out. I think it lacks a finisher:
1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Thragtusk
4 Brainstorm
3 Dig Through Time
3 Night's Whisper
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Innocent Blood
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
2 Negate
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Creeping Tar Pit
Ashiok has always been a weird choice to me in any format outside of standard. Where is it helping the most? I can see the exile mill being very good in some situations (miracles mostly) but I feel like otherwise it isn't doing very much.
It's a walker that is probably suited better in a deck with Deathrite that can come down on turn 2. I haven't admittedly tried this deck out ever. This is just kind of my starting list. I could see the argument againt her. Has there been any discussion to the new liliana here? It seems interesting at least in a list with slightly heavier reliance on creatures and more innocent blood to trigger her.Quote:
Originally Posted by supremePINEAPPLE
Would love to see Tom4ik's BUG NicFit list - having trouble finding it pages back and not many lists else where :cry:
/PollePotDK
Ashiok is awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Where have you liked it? Genuinely curious since it is a cool card. I'm just having trouble picturing where I'd rather have it than something like Jace or LotV which are where my mind went when looking at the walkers in Megas list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
I'm super on board with Kiora though. I played her in a McDarby-style planeswalker deck and her ult closed out a lot of slow games.
Agreed. I play 2 in the main deck (and one in the board) of my modern Tezz deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
I frequently run it as a 1-of either main or side in various UBx decks in legacy. I don't play modern, but it wouldn't take me much to talk me into it. I've run it in Nic Fit in the past, and I currently run 1 maindeck in my Grixis Pyromancer (control) deck. I've terrorized my local Death and taxes player with Ashiok sufficiently that he'll call Ashiok on Revoker before Jace or EE, when I run 2 copies of each in my deck vs 1 Ashiok. The card is actually -that- strong. It's also actually a wincon vs Miracles, which is entertaining. They can't pressure it sufficiently to get rid of it, and it just sits there quietly eating their deck and dicking up their Tops. Ashiok doesn't get anywhere near as much respect as the card deserves.Quote:
Originally Posted by supremePINEAPPLE
Here is the list of Tom4ik.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Personally i am not feeling the combination of Innocent Blood and the GSZ package. Especially without the two towers. Also without Jace to bounce your own creatues. The GSZ package looks good. Those creatures i have been digging up the most or have been most important. I would probably replace the Innocent Blood with Abrupt Decay. Silumgar looks really sweet, kills DnT for sure. Plus it provides a solid game vs Grixis Pyrodude.
While the Night's Whisper feed Dig Through Time i am not liking that it is a one shot effect in a deck that goes the long game. Also it seems that 3 Dig Through Time is stretching it with this deck. 2 should be sufficient. I would also like to recommend running Tasigur, at least as a one of. In combination with Dig it becomes dangerous since you are able to keep your own graveyard "clean" and ramp into mana fast enough to abuse his ability. Then there are various other blue creatures that are useful in this deck such as Snapcaster Mage, Notion Thief, Glen-Elendra Archmage and Consecrated Sphinx, just to name a few.
Other finishers could be:
Sagu Mauler (GSZ target)
Aetherling
And blue/green tech:
Trygon Predator
Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Anyway, with the recommendations i come to the following (and yes i am pusing thru the 3 SDT alternatives):
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Thragtusk
3 Baleful Strix
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Negate
4 Brainstorm
2 Dig Through Time
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Sylvan Library
1 Diabolic Intent
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Island
2 Forest
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
1-off (green) utility creatures, but no GSZ..? And Ashiok..? What the shit?
I honestly think you try to cram too much stuff into that list.
Lol i forgot to include 2 of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Also if people want to play Ashiok for the formentioned reasons then i'll just try to keep it in.
I am not discarding any possibilities or ideas to the deck.
You sir are only here to act like you know it all and discard "out-of-the-box" ideas saying it is crap. Just out of curiosity, do you even like NicFit? Shouldnt you be playing streamlined delver decks?
Nic Fit is my happy-deck. It's what I run when I want to have a smile from ear to ear (hence the Summoner's Eggs-build, fuck yes!). Funnily enough, anyDelver.dec is the last thing I like to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
I don't quite know it all, but some ideas are left outside of the box for good reasons. The same way as stuff goes into the box for good reasons. Plus, a lot of what goes around here ignores the opportunity cost of things. Sure, some stuff can be pretty cool, but can it compete with what has become run-off-the-mill stuff for good reason? Often, unfortunately the answer is no.
That's probably just the downside of playing Elves!/Manaless Dredge for extended periods of time. There, discussion boils down to "Does it kill quicker/more easily than NO to Craterhoof (or why does it cost 4+ and doesn't it say "I win"?)/Dread Return a Balustrade Spy & combo out? If not, it just makes the deck worse". Sorry about that.
Don't get me wrong, I do love to get my Timmy and Johnny on, but I look at my own stuff the same way as I do at that of others. I dick about with various builds of my Timmy Nic Fit (yes, I do register my lists in tournaments under that name), Manaless Dredge and Elves! but most of them never even see the day of light (or get posted) simply b/c they don't improve upon the current build. Innovation doesn't equal improvement :wink:. Nevertheless it's crucial to keep innovating b/c at some point one will find something that improves upon the set standard. Just don't ever get discouraged when ideas get shot down. Besides, what's stopping one to stick to their ideas? :wink:
Nic Fit is like a tier 3 deck right now anyway. It's fallen a long way from its glory days in the Maverick/Esperblade/Miracles/Sneak&Show days. Most of the problem is Dig Through Time, but Tasigur and Angler are also an issue. We just can't compete when the cantrip cartel is capable of playing our lategame cheaper/sooner/with better support than we can. It's unfortunate, but such is the way of things. We just need to wait for a Dig ban and/or the metagame to change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Until then, who really cares what people play in the shell? Let them have fun with whatever.
And I'll repeat: Ashiok is the tits. Don't knock it it until you've tried it.
Hence why I'm attempting to play cards like Dig and such right now. It seems like the BUG shell is still pretty unsolved at the moment. I don't claim to be a master deck builder or anything, I just think that it's the most interesting combination due to the lengthy list of options. I'd also like to maybe toy with a 4 color Intuition Demigod build, but I'm sure it's not goodQuote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
And that is how we should threat it. I agree with everything you write. I really do. Some choices may be less (or not at all) competative and some will suprise you/me. I play NicFit exactly because what is writen in the first couple of paragraphs in the OP. So i'll let my enthousiasm go all over the place. Sometimes i am pushing to get a streamlined competative list, while sometimes i will go wide to try cute things. Discussing it, argumenting and having contstructive critisism is fine. But i just do not feel that we should bring the unnecessary competative negative critic we see in other threads in this one. To improve this deck you need to think open minded (and learn from experience), please do not punish people for doing that. I hope you understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
JUNK NicFit is propably our best bet at competative play (not sure where ScapeWish currently at). It has answers for those fatties while also being able to sweep board filled with pyrodude or mentor. Also the hate bear package is pretty good. Currently i have a SFM list ready for a tournament (just 2 Siege Rhino).Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Hey everyone,
I'd like to run this by the group and see what people's thoughts are.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers...9512&type=card
I was really looking for a creature, that was a sac outlet, that could be GSZ'd for and found this guy. I've just found myself in situations where I found myself thinking 'boy I wish I could go fetch some sort of sac outlet'. Anyone else think that? I'm probably just crazy but I could see some applications. It's even got flash too, so like...flash it in, sac vet, get your lands, block a dude, etc.
@Dzogchen: Sac outlets are an important theme for this deck. I think my personal favorite in the 3 CMC slot is Varolz, the Scar-Striped. It does present a pretty good threat in drawn out games with the scavenge ability, depending on your creature suite and recursion options. It still rarely makes it into decks.
Starved rusalka is another option that is slightly cheaper to get going.