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Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Running 8 Fetchlands I think is incorrect whether you want to run basics or not. I think you should replace 2 Fetchies for basic mountains. With Stifle/Waste.decks running around everywhere wouldn't you want to increase your chances to fight them by running less fetchies? Also basic mountain is very good especially against recurring Loam decks that use Wasteland repeatedly.
Exactly, there is a reason that my son & I run a Ghost Quarter in our Loam build. If y'all want to make our jobs simpler & let us Waste-lock you with less effort, please feel free to do so. Plus, Path of Exile will see play, regardless of general expert Legacy consensus one way or the other. It will see play for a multitude of reasons including 'new & shiny' effect, ease of acquisition versus Swords to Plowshares, and in regards to GP Chicago a fair proportion of players new to Legacy not necessarily having heard of STP... Plus you will have the people trying out STPs #5-8 in their deck. Why not take advantage of that & be able to get the basic land? Furthermore, Weirding is the primary removal in the deck, why would anyone be OK with that removal getting shafted by Moon effects? With the reduction in Incinerator numbers (from a sampling of the recent lists in this thread) you will probably have to burn a Matron to get an Incinerator. That doesn't seem efficient.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roodmistah
As to the combo matchup, has it been abandoned Game 1 in favor of maybe being able to address it Games 2 & 3 with seven SB cards and some mana disruption? Or is the theory that it will be so under-represented that Goblins can dodge it? As a plan, it seems sketchy...
Regarding the basic lands, MUC is pretty much the new shit around where I live, because Fahad made it pretty popular around here. So yeah, it never hurts to have a couple around and like I already posted, I'm considering getting a singleton swamp as well (would require me to run a 4th bloodstained mire but it could replace a wooded foothills, or I could cut a mountain and run 8 fetch) because of MUC.
Also, dreadstill players around here have been experimenting with painter's servants so that explains the Gaea's Blessing. Never hurts to keep your K Grip in your hand for a dreadnought instead of wasting it on a painter, oftentimes they're great to have around because they make your piledrivers immortal.
I'm considering dropping the 4th random tech slot, which currently contains Mad Auntie, which sucks horribly, in favour of an extra weirding or a 23rd land, in which case I'm planning to try out cutting another mountain in favour of 2 rishadan ports. Anyone with experience running ports in a 3-colour build?
Back in the days when Goblin was big in extended (first rotation) there where a lot of decks that you had to beat as early as turn 3 (Reanimator, Life, etc).
Goblins used to run Rites of Initiation. Of course this isn't a goblin but that fact is irrelevant versus combo; because you wont have time to draw it with Goblin Ringleader or fetch it with Goblin Matron.
I honestly believe that Goblin Lackey -> Siege-Gang Commander -> Rites of Initiation was the main reason why Goblin Lackey got banned. Combo decks that don't run counters are just screaming to be crushed by Rites of Initiation.
Because a lot of Goblin decks are already running 4 x Siege-Gang Commander what's keeping us from exploiting this combo again?
Because it's awful. In most matchups, Goblins is alright if it keeps goblins on the board. Hell, people assume they aren't going to keep enough Goblins on the board now that most don't run 4 Gempalm Incinerators.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatara
Secondly, even against Combo? That's not fast enough. You're talking about doing the Rites on turn three after the Lackey hits and drops the Siege-Gang. How are you stopping them from going off the turn after you dropped the Lackey, or the turn after the Siege-Gang hits? And moreso? This scenario only works if you catch the Lackey, the Siege-Gang, and the Rites all in your first 8-9 cards.
So I've been playing a pretty straight forward build. No big tricks here. Just looking for some critique.
4 Vial
4 Lackey
4 War chief
4 Ringleader
4 Matron
4 Pile driver
4 Incinerator
3 Tin Street hooligan
3 Commander
6 Mountains
4 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 BR Fetch land
4 GR Fetch land
Board:
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 REB
4 Pyrokenesis
3 Krosan Grip
I was having trouble against Dreadstill so i figured the main board Hooligan should help with that.
Looks like a good deck, though there's no reason to not splash black and get weirdings. Also, since you're running just 2 colours, what's wrong with a couple of ports?
I tested hooligan (1x) mainboard. I saw that at least in that nunmber of copies, if you play warchief, hooligan ability is useless. For that reason, i'm running 1x goblin tinkerer. I has haste with warchief if it's needed tap it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MANMAN
In concordance with Ectoplasm, maybe 2 -3 Rishadan ports would be healthy.
The thing about Tinkerer is, when you need it the most, it won't have haste.
'The most' in this case means against a SOFI or jitte, which means you can be pretty sure you won't have living warchiefs.
That's how I see it at least :)
Here is the deck I came up with to start playing with.
4x Mountains
4x wasteland
4x bloodstained mire
4x wooded foothills
4x badlands
3x taiga
4x goblin lackey
4x goblin warchief
4x goblin ringleader
4x mogg fanatic
4x goblin matron
4x goblin piledriver
3x gempalm incinerator
2x siege-gang commander
2x warren weirding
1x kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
1x tin-street hooligan
4x aethe vial
Sideboard:
2x engineered explosives
3x cabal therapy
3x krosan grip
2x earwig squad
4x chalice of the void
I sort of want to change the sideboard around a little bit. I am thinking of putting the earwig squad into the main board and taking the tin-street out just to give me at least one in the main board. Just tell me what yall think.
Stingscourger is your friend. Though most people seem to be incredibly reluctant on him, he is amazing against both Dreadstill and Team America. I'd honestly stick with 1 TSH in the main, as you have matrons to tutor him if need be, and keep extras in the board for when you need em.Quote:
Originally Posted by MANMAN
Also to the idea of rites of initiation, why not just run Piledrivers? Rather we already have 'em, and they fill that same role. Lackey->SGC + Piledriver, is lethal on turn 3 anyways. Plus for anyone running Kiki-Jiki he has the same effect (as SGC) in that scenario, providing lethal on turn 3.
Hi!
I am about to enter a small tournament, and expect to meet Team America, and I have never seen that deck in action. Is there something special to think about? What must I deal with, and what can I ignore?
My decklist is almost the same as the deck Nickrit posted (post 1785). My sideboard is:
4 Chalice of the void
4 Relic of progenitus
3 Krosan grip
1 Earwig squad
1 Goblin tinkerer
1 Tranquility
1 Tranquil domain
What to side out, and what to side in?
I'm thinking of having two Earwig in the deck, but can't find the legitimate reasons to actually do so. Frogtosser for extra tempo?
I have a positive matchup against the rest of the field. Just need some input on how to beat TA. Realize that first turn Aether vial or Lackey is golden...
Appreciate it if someone would take the time to share their experience.
-4 Tormod's Crypt, +4 Relic of Progenitus. If you want to beat Threshold without Black in your list, Relic of Progenitus is how you do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MANMAN
Relic is almost as good as Leyline.
Pros:
It's easier to cast if you don't open a Leyline if it's not in your opening 7.
Extras cantrip.
Extras can remove spells one by one as they drop to the yard.
Fits in Mono and non black Goblin decks pretty well.
Can remove your yard to fight Goyfs and other global graveyard dependent stuff.
Cons:
It doesn't stop Countryside Crusher. Or stuff like that.
Is worse against Ichorid than Leyline (and Crypt if you're on the play).
Basically Leyline > Relic > Crypt. amirite?
Also, hell yes Stingscourger is techy vs TS and PD.
Also I see the battle between Tinkerer and TSH is still around. Is there a more final say on it?
I used to play with Tinkerer, but never seemed to do any good when I had him.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenCid
Maybe Sting Scourger is the way to go?
I'd argue Relic is far stronger than Leyline. It cantrips, it's better against Tarmogoyf, and it's highly playable if it's not in your opening hand and is far less susceptible to removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by chokin
As for Tinkerer vs. TSH, I don't think this battle should by any means exist anymore. If you run green, you run TSH and Krosan Grip. If you don't run green, you have a battle between running Tinkerer and just ignoring the artifact problem in favor of running other things.
A look on deckcheck.net showed me that more than half of the Goblin decks in the T8's over there are actually RW Goblins decks. I found this very odd as I am convinced, mono R, RB or RGB Goblins is most definately the correct choice (depending on the metagame). Does anyone have an explanation for this?
For reference: http://www.deckcheck.net/list.php?ty...&format=Legacy
It's the frequency phenomenon. If you go to 50 person tournament where 20 people play deck A and 3 people play deck B, Even if Deck B is better than Deck A, chances are pretty good that Deck A is going to make top 8 more often than deck B.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantis
This point is even more true when Deck A and Deck B are both variations of the same deck and are thereby having similar reactions to the metagame. In this case, Deck A will almost always do better than Deck B just because of the number of people playing it, especially since the edge Deck A has over Deck B when they're both Goblins variants is minimal.
Oh, and, also? Don't forget Warren Weirding helps lose the mirror.
Above would be true if R/w goblins was more populair then Rb or Rbg goblins but I believe the opposite to be true where I live atleast.
R/w Goblins deals with aggro and combo better as far as I can tell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantis
well from what I could tell, they were all from foreign countries. not that, that is a bad thing, but chances are its a less developed meta, so they could get away with running less than optimal decks against other less than optimal decks. I saw a whole bunch of random tech too, goblin goon ? goblin prospector ? pain lands ? goblin king, how bad would that suck in the mirror ?