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Do you run the 7 chant build? I usually find that enough against tempo. Flusterstorm seems interesting though and I should probably give it a try since tempos big in my area.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS
EDIT: I've done some snooping and answered my own question. gg me.
I play seven chant with Burning Wish, no main deck tendrils or iggy.Quote:
Originally Posted by j_rb
Yea saw your list... I need to start snooping around instead of asking stupid questions....Quote:
Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS
I'm trying to find room for MD IGG.... What do you think I should cut... Im thinking 2 cabals for 1 infernal and 1 igg.
I'm sure you're thinking my list is janky as shit but Its been working in my local meta.
3 orim's chant
4 silence
2 doomsday
1 ad nauseam
1 tendrils of agony
1 IU
1 gitaxian probe
2 cabal ritual
4 dark ritual
4 burning wish
3 infernal tutor
4 lion's eye diamond
4 sensei's divining top
4 lotus petal
3 ponder
4 brainstorm
2 underground sea
2 volcanic
1 tundra
4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
1 island
1 swamp
1 plains
I'm also contemplating cutting probe and using meditate to go to 60 cards since I'm not running the full probes for IU because I'm still not sure if running IU is worth it with only 1 probe... I'm thinking 1 is enough for piles but it's definitely better with the full 4 probes.
Those seem like OK cuts, but like you said your list is pretty much all over the place. If it works, it works I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by j_rb
If you're running Cabal Ritual, you probably want to try and make room for Rain of Filth. That card is the nuts. It lets you win games you have no right winning.
To be honest, I'm not fan of running Infernal Tutor in the Burning Wish builds because it makes it hard to cram everything into the deck.
Meditate seems like a move in the right direction if you can't run the full set of probes.
Yea the list is very tight with infernals in it, but it's been working. They have actually saved my ass in a couple matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS
In my local meta we have people playing mostly t1 and some t2 decks and I have only lost 2 matches in the 8 legacy tourneys I've played in and the losses were due to my own play errors (I'm not saying this list is amazing but it has been working well). It's been working great but plays a lil clunky due to infernal + wish but I think IGG will make the deck more solid since you can go silence + IGG route against control if you need too. Also, I win most of the games through chant into a line to win, mostly using doomsday. 7 chant effects is just the nuts most of the time against control.
I'm cutting the 1 probe for IGG and the IU for meditate. This seems to be more reasonable than running 1 probe and IU.
3 orim's chant
4 silence
2 doomsday
1 ad nauseam
1 ill-gotten gains
1 meditate
2 cabal ritual
4 dark ritual
4 burning wish
4 infernal tutor
4 lion's eye diamond
4 sensei's divining top
4 lotus petal
3 ponder
4 brainstorm
2 underground sea
2 volcanic
1 tundra
4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
1 island
1 swamp
1 plains
sb
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Deathmark
1 Doomsday
1 Duress
2 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
1 rebuild
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Spiral
1 grapeshot
1 helm of awakening
1 patrician's scorn
1 oust
1 infest
I'm gonna test this list for a couple weeks and see how it goes... I need to stop changing shit so I'm going to stick with this list for at least a week before changing anything.
I'm going to have to second this. Rain of filth is bonkers and much easier on your initial mana and life loss from ad. While typically netting you more mana than cabal and dodging spell snare.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS
Meditate vs IU has been discussed a lot but. Personally I would want at least 3 probes with IU I've built many piles on the fly that used more than one probe.
As far as iggy and infernal are concerned if your still new to the deck they are an ok crutch/plan B. But ide suggest you use them as last ditch efforts and always try to see if you can win with doomsday. Once you've got a fairly firm grasp on doomsday you'll realize iggy is clunky an not needed.
I totally agree and have experience playing with probes/IU. It's easier on the mana and sometimes you need more than 1-2 probes for your pile so I decided to run meditate.Quote:
Originally Posted by metalhead
I'm not sure if I agree with this, and I may be wrong, but infernal/IGG is always a solid plan against aggro, which is why the German Ubwg DDFT variant uses it.I agree that it's definitely a last ditch thing unelss playing zoo or burn or something, and I may not need the IGG maindeck but I'm willing to test it maindeck in my list until I feel it isn't needed. I kinda went with my janky list to make the deck as flexible as possible and so far in testing it's very flexible and has so many different ways to win. As is I kill with doomsday 90% of the time, but the deck has other lines to win that don't involve doomsday, which is why I like the infernal/igg and wishboard in the same deck. It may be watering the deck down, I'm not sure, but I will have to do more testing before I pilot it at any big tournament. I will probably go with a more streamlined Ubrw DDFT list for the upcoming SCG Atl and will not play my jankier list until I have put more games in with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by metalhead
I really hate cabal ritual, so do you guys think I should cut one possibly for a rain of filth? It seems better than cabal in every single situation I can think of. Should I possibly just cut both the cabals to shave the deck down to 60 cards and put in 1 rain of filth? I'm still not sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by metalhead
In 2 of the last 3 events i played. 2 5ks and 1 legacy challenge. I played infernals and iggy in my main because i had not had a chance to play or test in a long time so i went ahead and played them as a crutch. even while rusty i ended up only using iggy twice and neither time was an iggy loop. i used it once against u/w stoneblade just to fluff my storm, and once against elves combo just to make sure he hadnt topdecked a mindbreak trap game 2. I also only used Infernal tutor twice once was to find doomsday with 3 LEDs and a top in play. the other time was for a verry strange on the fly pile that any cantrip would have done the same job.Quote:
Originally Posted by j_rb
You realy do not need iggy against aggro. I won over half my games againt non blue decks on turn 2 this included beating a turn 2 teeg from maveric and turn 1 thoughtseize turn two teeg from the rock.
I will admit i was playing a fairly aggressive consistent RUB list without chants which made my mana verry smooth and consistant but the lack of chant made my snapcaster matchups terrible.
P.s. Yes at least one cabal ritual should be replaced with rain of filth. That card is so good ive considered adding a second. though there terrible in multiples drawing one is soooo good. And unlike cabal ritual it can actually be usefull in a doomsday pile where as cabal ritual is strait terrible post doomsday.
Yeah and there is a reason, why both Nemavera and I decided to run an UBrw variant at GP Amsterdam rather than the german list. Because it is actually a better deck. The only reason to play IGG main is to have the 1U pass the turn pile available. If you're having problems against aggro decks without IGG, you probably should play another deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by j_rb
I realize by your statement that you thought I was suggesting using IGG primarily against aggro, but I was not and was saying it's a solid plan B. I like it because it can help you be more versatile pre and post doomsday.Quote:
Originally Posted by flrn
I would never even think of running my other list at a bigger tournament, I'm just testing it.
I also am running the Ubwr list at scg atl this weekend. I even said it in my other post 2 post up.
here's my list.
3 orim's chant
4 silence
3 doomsday
1 IU
1 ad nauseam
4 probe
1 rain of filth
4 dark ritual
4 burning wish
4 lion's eye diamond
4 sensei's divining top
4 lotus petal
4 ponder
4 brainstorm
2 underground sea
2 volcanic
1 tundra
4 polluted delta
4 flooded strand
1 island
1 swamp
1 plains
sb
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Deathmark
1 Doomsday
1 Duress
1 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens
1 rebuild
1 Diminishing returns
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Spiral
1 grapeshot
1 helm of awakening
1 IU
1 oust
1 virtue's ruin
rebuild probably going to be changed to meltdowsn.
Diminishing Returns is awful; don't play it.
Infernal Contract has always been more valuable to me in the board than Ideas Unbound. Being not blue can be important.
Oust seems pretty redundant with Virtue's Ruin. The only time you really want it over Silent Departure would be vs Aven Mindcensor, where you probably want to just Deathmark or Virtue's Ruin instead.
Flusterstorm is mostly against Thoughtseize decks (storm, reanimator, BUG). It's less useful against the RUG tempo builds.
I was posting my list hoping someone would give me sb suggestions. I'll definitely use contract over IU since RUG tempo cant blast it. Oust does seem redundant. Didn't really notice it till you brought it up but you're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
My sb makes for sense for my meta since it's tons of maverick rug and death and taxes, but i'll need to switch it up for the starcity open.
How many flusterstorms should I use, 1 storm and a divert or 2 flusterstorms? I was using divert at one point and really liked it.
oust was also there against reanimator.
The flusterstorm comment wasn't directly targeted at your last post. I do not play Flusterstorm right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by j_rb
I realize this but need storms in my board, how many do you suggest running? I'm expecting a good bit of discard at the starcity as team america and bug is usually played a good bit around these parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
Divert does more justice against the BUG-style decks.
I'll probably change the DR in my board to divert and IU to contract and roll with that for the open.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS
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should be good with those changes against anything blue, which is why i love the chant builds. I haven't tested much against bug but have against other rug and tempo variants and the deck just seems to outplay them running so many damn silence effects.
I have to admit that my experience is lacking here. What about this deck and its match against discard makes it a good idea to sideboard in Flusterstorm/Divert? It just doesn't seem effective to me. The deck is set up pretty well against discard in my opinion, because Doomsday, Ad Nauseam, and Burning Wish into Time Spiral are pretty good at making storm come out of nowhere, along with Top to help you find what you need even if you don't have anything in your hand. Given that you're normally trying to deal with Thoughtseize/Hymn in the first turns of the game, it looks like you're siding in one or two copies of some counters and just hoping they're in your opening hand. And it doesn't seem like the match against discard is so bad that you would want to dedicate the max number of anti-discard cards to a sideboard made much smaller by a wishboard.
My understanding is that Flusterstorm shores up the combo mirror, and can come in for silence in some random MUs. In this it isn't simply a spell that you hope to draw only in your opener. I guess this double-duty could make it a viable sb choice if you expected a lot of combo and discard, where divert would be too narrow.
I don't think a basic swamp belongs in this list. A second tundra would be nicer to you.
Today I played the 4C DDFT list from GP Amsterdam with modified SB to a 5-1-1 finish. 5th place / 60+ players without Top8 tied with 3rd on points. After cca 3 months geeting the hang of it :cool:
Maindeck feels very strong, pretty much 99% optimized. The only card I'm not 100% sure of is Ad Nauseam, but when it is good it wins games. Having trouble with enchantmens, burn/sligh (deck) and Aven Mindcensor (card).
Good SB plan against fast clock is -4x BW, -1x Ad Nauseam, +1x DD, +1 Tendrils, +1 Duress, +2x X
SB:
Shelldock + Emrakul - Have not used, but still keep it beign scared of CB-top (seen one today).
Helm + Grapeshot - Have trouble utilizing this actually, sided it in several times, only once actually killed with it. Maverick has Stony Silence, so I do not even side it here.
Sorry for the rant and thanks to the creators, I'm having a blast:smile:
Are you saying that you're having trouble with permanents that are enchantments, or the Enchantress deck? If you mean the latter, that Emrakul/Shelldock Isle you mentioned never siding in would be my advice.
Losing to Burn is kind of embarrassing, but I've been having the same problem. It's a die-roll for me at best because the deck doesn't have the pass the turn pile that IT/IGG affords, and I seem to always get blown out by Fireblast unless I draw an amazing hand that kills on turn two. But the prevailing notion is that aggro is a bye, so I think it's that I'm not mulliganning aggressively enough or something.