Maybe Uw is for sure better against gob but it's still so far from being good that I don't think it's relevant to talk about it ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
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Maybe Uw is for sure better against gob but it's still so far from being good that I don't think it's relevant to talk about it ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
Just a random thought. Moonglove Extract to get rid of Pileys?
shouldn't cards like jitte and mutavault be enough to handle the bastard?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelis
Often they're not. But I don't think Moonglove Extract is a viable option. It's too costly and too narrow to put in your sideboard. StifleNought would be better and even that is questionable.
Worship is you splash W. Then, good luck for killing.
Mmm, if memory doesn't fail me there was something called Aelopile or something like that that cost less than Mogloove Estract.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelis
The card is Aeolipile from Fallen Empires.
Costs :2: to cast, but :1: to activate.
In total just as much as Moonglove Extract, but spread out over two turns.
Listen, I'll be the first to acknowledge that with W splash, you stand a much better chance of winning. However, playing Worship, really? Not a chance at 4 mana. If you're going to splash W, there are 3 cards I'd consider:Quote:
Originally Posted by Maveric78f
Blue Elemental Blast (an auto-include anyways)
Absolute Law (they can't block, they can only get through with piledriver)
Propaganda/Ghostly Prison (they can only swing once)
Personally, I'd run BEB and Absolute Law in the board. A resolved Absolute Law that stays in play for a few turns is pretty close to an auto-win against Goblins.
Anyways, with W splash, I'm guessing it's pretty easy to beat goblins if you board properly. Mono-blue, all I was wondering is if there's some way to eek out a win, and at least make the matchup 40-60 or so. Right now I assume it's muchmuch worse.
white splash is the best.. what do you actually lose if you splash, consistency in mana?
plus, you get to thin your deck from lands w/ fetches which makes your draws more consistent/better.
then you just sb in 4 stp and say gg.
You lose consistency in mana/draws, susceptibility to wasteland/stifle/other non-basic hate (in terms of disrupting your base), and you have the *problem* of fetchlands. It's fairly common belief that the damage from fetchlands outweighs the thinning they provide unless you're taking advantage of them with something like brainstorm.Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce
Believe me, splashing has its downsides. Hence why so many of the (winning) lists are monocolored. In my opinion, the only thing splashing really gives you is the ability to beat goblins. Hence why I don't really see the green splash, and assume the white splash is the better choice.
from testing, i believe monoblue merfolks have at least 50-50 matchup against most, if not all, decks that run islands.:laugh:
will be trying out tidal warrior against gobs matchup soon. i think him plus jitte would be enough against gobs... splash white of course, would mean gg for them. i still prefer monoblue though.:laugh:
also, what do you guys think about this list:
Sherfolk v2.0
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejery
3 Wake Trasher
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner / Umezawa's Jitte
2 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Standstill
1 Wipe Away
4 Aether Vial
It's an experimental list, I know Kira and Dreadnought don't work together, but I rarely top deck them both... Also, playing StifleNought and then vialling in Kira would mean GG. Unstopable 12/12 trampler. :))
Yes I know it seems to run too much permission, haha! I find it hard to play without Spell Snare, as I am pretty unlucky at die rolls and frequently find myself on the draw g1... g2 i usually side it out anyway if i am on the play. Either way, I love Snare, and would rather cut the StifleNoughts (which I did, currently playing no stiflenought.)
They work fine together. You target the trigger with stifle, not the Dreadnought.Quote:
Originally Posted by sherko7
I'm wary of no Cursecatchers in this list. I thought he was sub par before, but he really is amazing in this deck.
I once won a 33-man tournament with a Merfolk deck with 2 Kira's and 3 Dreadnoughts in the sideboard. They're actually pretty good, and in fact work very nicely together. The problem with Dreadnoughts is that often your opponent can 2 for 1 you. Kira stops that.Quote:
Originally Posted by sherko7
If you splash White, do you back out of the Standstill engine?
Splashing White gives you access to Swords to Plowshares and Brainstorm, as well as Seal of Cleansing and Meddling Mage in board, and if you want them, Galina's Knight and Sygg, River Guide (Don't underestimate the anti-removal ability.)
The problem with this is that your deck runs out of slots at some point. You've got a core 20 Merfolk that you run, a core 8 counters, and you're almost compelled to run Brainstorm if you're running blue and Fetchlands. This leaves you trying to squeeze Vial, Standstill, and Swords into the remaining slots maindeck. Then your board's sucked up by Relic, Mage, Jitte, Seal, and possibly Blast.
Just a couple notes, with Standstill running rampant, Dispeller's Capsule is probably a better choice over seal of cleansing. 2 extra mana, sure, but hits the table a turn earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Galina's Knight is still trash. As I mentioned previously, go with Rule of Law to give all your creatures protection from red. To me, the splash is primarily for the sideboard. In the main deck, you might drop echoing truth for swords to plowshares, since they serve a similar role. In addition, you may also remove standstill for brainstorm to smooth out your draws/mana. However, the card advantage from standstill is just so *huge*, I'd sooner leave brainstorm out.
What manabases do people who splash run? My thought was 2-3 Tundra, 4 Flooded Strand, 5-6 Island, 3 Mutavault, 4 Wasteland. Do you find that's enough to get you by? Do you bother running grunt mainboard?
I was wondering one thing about the new lord. Ok, she's weaker than Reejerey and Lord, and i think we all agree on this; but, after all, she's another pumping effect, which may give us incredibly resiliance against the majority of the fatties in legacy (Dreadnought excluded, ok).
The objective problem with 12-lords configuration would obviously be the redundancy in the 3-cc spot, which would slow down this deck further than how it already is; despite this, I think that the old concept of "blue goblins " with this new Merfolk could be taken back into account.
What i mean is a deck with a greater number of Merfolk , where we can exploit at the best point the boost given by Stonybrook banneret and the Merfolk ringleader (i don't remind his name now). I know it's clearly a "danger of cool things" ..danger, but it may turn out to something new and cool. The advantages would be that we could be slightly more resilient to burn (to make the Canadian Threshold-which is not-that-easy-, the Goyf Sligh, Boros, ecc matches slightly better if we manage to endure them the first turns), the obvious disadvantages are that we risk to have several costy Merfolks in the first turns in hand, and that this deck would still suck to goblins ( but that's inevitable even with a more "speedy" version, i guess).
I try to give a list as a referrement, I'm tossing it right now without any kind of testing, just to give you a vague idea of my concept:
Merfolks-28
4 LoA
4 Reejerey
4 Sovereign
2 Tidal Warrior (to fill bit the 1-cc slots)
4 Cursecatchers
4 Adepts
4 Banneret
2 Merfolk Ringleaders
(wake thrasher is hard to pull in here, unfortunately)
Spells-12
4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
Here i think the Standstills re no longer required, we tend to play more like "merfolk, merfolk, merfolk", not to stall the game. And Standstill is too many times situational, with the danger of it being a dead card when we're going to lose.
Lands-20
12 Islands
4 Mutavault
4 Mishra's Factory ( I think that we'd give up the mana denial aspect in this version, we're not Goblins who can both Disrupt AND be uber-aggro. Mishra also helps in slowing down the game a bit in the early phases, when this list would theoretically be weak).
I repeat, this is purely experimental, and of course should be tuned appropriately. But i just wanted to exploit the potential between Banneret and the many mediocre-to-good Merfolks that have colorless in their ccs, in order to give it a Goblin-esque twist. I'll test it for some time on Mws, then i'll make you know.
Of course, flamings, disappreciation and advices are welcome.
1. Jotun Grunt is awful. It shouldn't be anywhere in this deck ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by tivadar
2. 2-3 Tundra and 4 Strand isn't going to be enough to hit White with any frequency.
3. You're probably right about Galina's. And I think you mean Absolute Law, not Rule of Law. And that's not a bad idea.
4. Dispeller's Capsule is intriguing. (How did I not know this card existed?) I can see where it's way better against Standstill, Snare, and sometimes Counterbalance (Comes down first, but harder to resolve if they hit Countertop) worse against everything else. One of the nicest thing about Seal is that once it's down, you can throw it for free whenever you please. But I'll definitely give this a shot.
So if Swords and Brainstorm are the main things we get from the White Splash, the 64 cards I'd -want- to run would be this:
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
4 Island
3 Wasteland
3 Mutavault
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Wake Thrasher
4 Brainstorm
4 Aether Vial
4 Standstill
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
Given that this list is 64 cards and what I would argue are the best 64 you can run in this splash, how do you cut this down to 60? My thoughts are either to syphon 1-of's from random places (1 land, 1 Daze, 1 Standstill, 1 Merfolk), compensated for by Brainstorm, or to just stick the swords in sideboard with a board of, say, 4 Mage, 4 Swords, 4 Seal/Capsule, 3 Relic.
While there's a lot of people splashing for white, I don't think this deck would ever play brainstorm because, as you said, there is little room to squeeze the 'non-core' cards. And Vial and Standstill should not be squeezed in, they are staples. Back to brainstorm, what would you take out for it? Draw is usually good enough with the adepts and standstills. Merfolk likes to tap out, and the deck is pretty redundant, and there is little need to search for specific cards compared to the more traditional control decks that can better abuse brainstorm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Merfolks plan is to put dorks on the table, turn them sideways, all while countering any spells that hinders that plan and playing mana denial spells to keep your opponent behind. While brainstorm helps find cards that do this, it still doesn't fulfill these qualifications, which I think everyone should keep in mind when adding cards to this deck.
As for the argument for white, I will echo what Tivadar said. We only play 19-20 land sources including a set of wastelands, and even just one wasteland or stifle from out opponent can really hurt us, especially without a vial on the table. And with fetches, if we thin out the deck to get a dual or whatever, and that land get destroyed, they effectively took 2 lands out of our deck, minimizing out chances of drawing a replacement. Besides a well timed bounce spell is usually just as good if not better than a stp, as the threat gets removed and there is no lifegain, and we don't like to see opponents gain life. The longer the game goes on, the weaker our disruption gets. Plus, it's great having a deck that can abuse back to basics.
I'd agree. He's used as a fattie, but Wake Thrasher is just better. Hence me asking if anyone even bothered to play him main. Honestly, if I splashed green, I'd run Thrasher sooner than Goyf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
If they ever give us fetches under a different name, I think I'd run 8 fetch, 2 plains. One of the main advantages of this deck is its ability to ignore wasteland. Given the current availaibility, I think I'd be more prone to do 7 fetches, 3 tundras. But yeah, that's still pretty close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Sorry, nods, stupid wizards naming cards similar with similar effects (both against red). Absolute law > Goblins/Burn/Lavamancer/... You get the point, it's just *so* relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
I noticed the card primarily because it's also an artifact, making it a relevant Trinket Mage target for the UW Angel Stompy deck I used to play. But yeah, I think it highly depends on your meta which you choose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
So if Swords and Brainstorm are the main things we get from the White Splash, the 64 cards I'd -want- to run would be this:
-4 Brainstorm *or* -4 Standstill. They both serve in the card advantage/quality role. I would say you drop Brainstorm. While it's good, your deck should generally have consistent drops anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
I notice you're dropping Stifle as well. I sorta agree with this, and you've added a land, an STP and a Daze I believe. Once could also try -1 BS, -1 Standstill, -1 STP, -1 Daze. Then you could also swap in Stifle for BS if you so desired.
You're arguing against Brainstorm in a 2-color blue deck with fetchlands and several situationally good cards? Seriously?
Brainstorm is good to hide Standstill if it isn't safe to drop it, or to dig for it if you need to play it. Brainstorm will hide that Aether Vial you managed to topdeck on turn four. Brainstorm will dig for Wasteland if you need it, or hide it if it won't hurt your opponent. Brainstorm can dig for Forces.
Also, for the curve, Brainstorm's your best 1-drop if you don't have a Vial or a Cursecatcher and aren't maindecking Relic, where the better between Relic/Brainstorm depends on the matchup. If you -do- have one of these these and your manabase is okay, you'll most likely play Brainstorm around turn four or so, to keep your Merfolk wave from stalling out.
Additionally, after you board? Brainstorm digs for your answers. More chances to hit the Relics, Swords, artifacts/enchantment removers, Mages, Jittes, or whatever the case may be.