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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Viridia
I'll just post my skype here, i can always be contacted and have spare time most evenings for some testing:
Cruzaxx
or just
Michel Theissen
Located in Landgraaf, Netherlands. Should find me then :)
Have to say tho, i prefer Cockatrice over MWS :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ayotte
Cockatrice has the same problem. The metagame is a complete shitstorm. No one plays combo, which means Nic Fit is pretty good, but there are also a ton of random decks that are just a waste of time to play against.
I've spent a lot of time on Cockatrice, but I don't grind with randoms -- I have a ventrilo server that myself and my locals (and friends not so local) use for Magic and other various games, so whenever we want to do testing we hop on there and fire up a private room. I would much, MUCH rather test in real life, but Central PA isn't exactly a conducive location for getting together....most of us are 30-45 minutes from each other.
I finally broke down a few months ago and just completely gave up on Cockatrice. I still hop on every now and again, but it's pretty uncommon. I can't get over the randomization matrices. Once, a friend was playing Dredge, and his 4 Bridges were the last 4 cards in his deck. I find it almost impossible to land even an "average" opening hand -- they're all borderline untenable and I usually end up cycling through 4-5 opening hands of 7 before I find something that qualifies as average, per my expectations from real life.
I mean, MWS and Cockatrice are pretty much what we're got to work with for when there isn't an event, which is pretty miserable, but they do lend themselves to SOME good, I guess. Some data, even flawed, is better than nothing. Far and away my favorite form of testing, though, is to proxy a deck up and take it with me to a non-local event, and then grind between rounds with friends. That way you get in games against people whose playstyles you don't have completely memorized, against a wider variety of decks, with real physical cards that actually fucking shuffle the way they should.
/Impromptu rage session
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arianrhod
I've spent a lot of time on Cockatrice, but I don't grind with randoms -- I have a ventrilo server that myself and my locals (and friends not so local) use for Magic and other various games, so whenever we want to do testing we hop on there and fire up a private room. I would much, MUCH rather test in real life, but Central PA isn't exactly a conducive location for getting together....most of us are 30-45 minutes from each other.
I finally broke down a few months ago and just completely gave up on Cockatrice. I still hop on every now and again, but it's pretty uncommon. I can't get over the randomization matrices. Once, a friend was playing Dredge, and his 4 Bridges were the last 4 cards in his deck. I find it almost impossible to land even an "average" opening hand -- they're all borderline untenable and I usually end up cycling through 4-5 opening hands of 7 before I find something that qualifies as average, per my expectations from real life.
I mean, MWS and Cockatrice are pretty much what we're got to work with for when there isn't an event, which is pretty miserable, but they do lend themselves to SOME good, I guess. Some data, even flawed, is better than nothing. Far and away my favorite form of testing, though, is to proxy a deck up and take it with me to a non-local event, and then grind between rounds with friends. That way you get in games against people whose playstyles you don't have completely memorized, against a wider variety of decks, with real physical cards that actually fucking shuffle the way they should.
/Impromptu rage session
It's really difficult for me because the only legacy events are monthly and are an hour away. They also only have 15-20 players. I think I should just give up on this format!
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
I've found the same thing with cockatrice. The hands and draws just don't feel right compared to what I experience in the actual game.
I'm blessed with having quite a few real players not far from me. And there's generally more than one at each destination.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
I'd invite people to come over here, but i don't think any of you live in the Netherlands/Belgium :P
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Star|Scream
It's really difficult for me because the only legacy events are monthly and are an hour away. They also only have 15-20 players. I think I should just give up on this format!
No don't =(
Where are you at on the East Coast (big city nearness, state, whatever...don't need a street address or some shit)?
Unrelatedly, have you considered trying MODO? Obviously the whole having to get things you already own rankles (reasons I haven't done it....I have a very, -very- nice collection and I have no intention of rebuying all of that), but Legacy dailies are firing fairly regularly and you should be able to hop in 2-man queues whenever you want, from what I've seen of pros streaming. Considering that they run PTQs and other high-profile events on MODO, I'm assuming that the randomization matrix is somewhat more realistic, as well.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Is there actually data to evidence Cockatrice's shuffler being bad? I have a hard time believing any complaints about RNGs because it always reeks of confirmation bias and anecdotal evidence.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
I play on Cockatrice and I gotta say that the shuffler is terrible. It never gives you average hands, at all.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arianrhod
No don't =(
Where are you at on the East Coast (big city nearness, state, whatever...don't need a street address or some shit)?
Unrelatedly, have you considered trying MODO? Obviously the whole having to get things you already own rankles (reasons I haven't done it....I have a very, -very- nice collection and I have no intention of rebuying all of that), but Legacy dailies are firing fairly regularly and you should be able to hop in 2-man queues whenever you want, from what I've seen of pros streaming. Considering that they run PTQs and other high-profile events on MODO, I'm assuming that the randomization matrix is somewhat more realistic, as well.
I'm outside of Pittsburgh. Only one local store has any legacy. They have tried to host tournaments at other ones but got very low attendance. The closest store to me is only 10 minutes away but is super casual. There's only one other dude with any duals at all.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Star|Scream
I'm outside of Pittsburgh. Only one local store has any legacy. They have tried to host tournaments at other ones but got very low attendance. The closest store to me is only 10 minutes away but is super casual. There's only one other dude with any duals at all.
Woah...slow down there. I have contacts in Pittsburgh. I KNOW there is a flourishing legacy scene there, for a fact. I'll track down details for you.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ayotte
Is there actually data to evidence Cockatrice's shuffler being bad? I have a hard time believing any complaints about RNGs because it always reeks of confirmation bias and anecdotal evidence.
There's nothing wrong with the RNG shuffler, people are just used to real life magic where we never actually truly randomize our decks like we are supposed to. We are biased shufflers and consciously, or unconsciously, try to separate similar cards and space lands evenly apart since because we think that is what random is supposed to look like. RNGs dont do that so rare hands, that are even rarer in real life, like 7 land hands or getting 3-4 of the same card, make it look like there is something wrong with the RNG instead of our manual randomization.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheArchitect
There's nothing wrong with the RNG shuffler, people are just used to real life magic where we never actually truly randomize our decks like we are supposed to. We are biased shufflers and consciously, or unconsciously, try to separate similar cards and space lands evenly apart since because we think that is what random is supposed to look like. RNGs dont do that so rare hands, that are even rarer in real life, like 7 land hands or getting 3-4 of the same card, make it look like there is something wrong with the RNG instead of our manual randomization.
I'd be pretty inclined to agree with this. It sucks for online play, but it's true.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheArchitect
There's nothing wrong with the RNG shuffler, people are just used to real life magic where we never actually truly randomize our decks like we are supposed to. We are biased shufflers and consciously, or unconsciously, try to separate similar cards and space lands evenly apart since because we think that is what random is supposed to look like. RNGs dont do that so rare hands, that are even rarer in real life, like 7 land hands or getting 3-4 of the same card, make it look like there is something wrong with the RNG instead of our manual randomization.
This is the argument that I make and why I say peoples' complaints about RNGs reek of confirmation bias. However, true random number generators are pretty tough to make, so it's certainly possible that there is a bad one. I'm not convinced until I see data, though.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Star|Scream
I'm outside of Pittsburgh. Only one local store has any legacy. They have tried to host tournaments at other ones but got very low attendance. The closest store to me is only 10 minutes away but is super casual. There's only one other dude with any duals at all.
Mr. Nice Guy Games usually gets ~20-25 people at their monthly events. Its certainly not huge, but its not the worst turnout I've ever seen.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Undomian
Mr. Nice Guy Games usually gets ~20-25 people at their monthly events. Its certainly not huge, but its not the worst turnout I've ever seen.
Yeah that's the one I'm talking about. That seems to be it, though, and other attempts have failed at other stores.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arianrhod
No don't =(
Where are you at on the East Coast (big city nearness, state, whatever...don't need a street address or some shit)?
Unrelatedly, have you considered trying MODO? Obviously the whole having to get things you already own rankles (reasons I haven't done it....I have a very, -very- nice collection and I have no intention of rebuying all of that), but Legacy dailies are firing fairly regularly and you should be able to hop in 2-man queues whenever you want, from what I've seen of pros streaming. Considering that they run PTQs and other high-profile events on MODO, I'm assuming that the randomization matrix is somewhat more realistic, as well.
FWIW, the MTGO metagame right now is heavily RDW, Belcher, and highly disruptive 3c decks to deal with all those combos. I wouldn't be taking a deck like Nic Fit into such a metagame, because it sucks having to play on the edge of your seat hoping you don't lose before the deck does its thing.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
@Arianrhod
I believe that's the kind of inputs that will make this deck dtb some day haha just a thought. My meta is either heavy control or random a** combo decks that shouldnt exist but people play it because no one expects it or prepares for it. After reading your advice, i did indeed cut the hullbreach for a pulse and use the open slot to play virtues ruin. I just figured if i had 3 deeds and 4 wishes i could already answer it but after that explanation it makes huge sense to play the virtues ruin. Damnation is still a question for me, does clear the board.
The lands has had a lot of tweaking to it but now it works fine. Although i do feel like i should just copy your land list haha I just hated never having green and black at the same time. Even when i played the gwb version if those two colors didn't exist it was really difficult to do anything broken.
The aggro side is actually the true game plan but i like to bait people to fear the combo that they let me have the awesome aggro then at the same time if it becomes too much, angry mountains come through. Either way the essence of the deck plays like Aggro Loam (the deck that i am most comfortable with and will go down as one of my deck of all time) but its not fragile to all the GY hate.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Viridia
I'd invite people to come over here, but i don't think any of you live in the Netherlands/Belgium :P
Not true but limburg is still too far off ;)
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
XdeckX
Not true but limburg is still too far off ;)
I'm more up north nowadays! A little south-east of eindhoven :P
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
@Arianrhod Abyssal Persecutor flies, tramples and is a 6/6 for 4 mana. I use him cause i want treats in every form: creatures, artifacts, planeswalkers, sorc/instants. He is a must counter and gives control player a hard time choosing what to counter first. He gives aggro players a hard time being a wall against their creatures and comes down very quickly. It speeds up the clock when we are low life and people ran out of gas.
I don't really like Desecration Demon: He doesn't defend in case with need him as Persecutor does(4 life, tarmo and DRS in play, sac DRS, tap Demon--> ouch), he can gift our opponent a turn if we are attacking and we need to end the match as soon as possible cause he doesnt trample and, again, can be tapped.
For as much as I played the deck, I noticed that Chronofit has potentially even a better late game than the other two versions, but against really fast decks, its not always that brilliant in the first few turns. It's not that rare to be at <10 life before we are able to steal the match in the face of an astonished opponent: we don't have GSZ to tutor up our Thragtusk, no Huntmaster, no Ooze (some lists play it) etc. , we don't have as much creatures as red or white Nic-Fit.
I tested more, and Abyssal persecutor always made me happy to draw him either to defend or attack.. Also... he has a MOTHERFU*KING black-energy-evil-badass-deadly-ultimate-uber-MOTHERFU*KING SWORD!!! (Desecration demon is bare hand.. meh :eyebrow: )
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quick question. I just bought a most in real life and wanted to cry as the money disappeared from my account. Preparing for SCG legacy. I can't pay another 100 for Nether Void. Do you think a second Leyline of Sanctity would be a suitable replacement? Also does it matter if I use null profusion instead of Recycle?
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
@Crich3
Most? you mean Moat?
I'd probably go with Ring of Law in place of nether void.. although nether void is still so much better. It doesn't too matter really if u go null or recycle.. recycle is probably easier to cast cuz of GG but again its cmc is 6 so you should be fine
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
No one plays hibernation or Dystopia anymore. The GG on Recycle is probably at least a few percentage points easier to cast than the BB on Null. Check out your manabase to be sure.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CRich3
Quick question. I just bought a most in real life and wanted to cry as the money disappeared from my account. Preparing for SCG legacy. I can't pay another 100 for Nether Void. Do you think a second Leyline of Sanctity would be a suitable replacement? Also does it matter if I use null profusion instead of Recycle?
Huzzah! Welcome to the Moat club =)
Which SCG are you going to? I've been wanting a 2nd Leyline for a while now, but not at the expense of the Nether Void slot. If you don't have access to a Void, then the next best thing is to run Curse of Exhaustion. It's not as good, but it's the primary alternative. It's >3, so TES and ANT's Abrupt Decays won't kill it, and it's one-sided, so you can still like Witness back an Extirpate and unload it, or whatever. I'm going to be doing some tinkering with Rector in the very near future, as I'm planning on running it in a week at the next Jupiter. I'll share my tweaks -- hopefully we can get you ready to go before SCG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Star|Scream
I'm outside of Pittsburgh. Only one local store has any legacy. They have tried to host tournaments at other ones but got very low attendance. The closest store to me is only 10 minutes away but is super casual. There's only one other dude with any duals at all.
Here's what my friend from Pittsburgh sent me:
Mr nice guy games runs them monthly like clockwork. MNGG also fires 8 man events anytime there's 8 people interested. The vault in greensburg and empire cards in kent both have them sporadically. And for testing/travel friends CMU has drafts every Tuesday with me, rich, jd, and other legacy players in attendence.
So, there's something like 4 more places that you didn't know about to check into, and then the one you did know. Hopefully that helps =)
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arianrhod
I'm going to be doing some tinkering with Rector in the very near future, as I'm planning on running it in a week at the next Jupiter.
I tried out a few tweaks this week, but didn't get to see much of them.
-1 Eledamri's Call
-1 Recurring Nightmare
-1 Yosei
+1 GSZ
+1 Krond
+1 Eldrazi Conscription
I'm not suggesting anyone make these changes, they were just relatively straightforward 1:1 changes I could make to try out the Conscription. Krond seemed reasonable since I've gotten much feedback over the months about only running one Baneslayer in my list. The CC on Krond is rough, but it's Green Sunnable, so I figured I'd try it out. As a 6/6 flier with vigilance, he has some appeal.
Never did see Krond, nor get a chance to Zenith him in. I was able to Rector in Conscription onto a Witness once. That ended the game in a single blow (he was at 13). Obviously you'd prefer to put it on Sigarda (hexproof, don't worry about the 2-for-1) or Krond (trigger is good), but if the coast is clear to stick it elsewhere... Should anyone try this out, keep in mind that if you Rector in the conscription after declaring your attackers you don't get the Annihilator trigger.
It does need a better spot though. I like Nightmare a LOT, wouldn't want to give it up permanently.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
slikwilly
I tried out a few tweaks this week, but didn't get to see much of them.
-1 Eledamri's Call
-1 Recurring Nightmare
-1 Yosei
+1 GSZ
+1 Krond
+1 Eldrazi Conscription
I'm not suggesting anyone make these changes, they were just relatively straightforward 1:1 changes I could make to try out the Conscription. Krond seemed reasonable since I've gotten much feedback over the months about only running one Baneslayer in my list. The CC on Krond is rough, but it's Green Sunnable, so I figured I'd try it out. As a 6/6 flier with vigilance, he has some appeal.
Never did see Krond, nor get a chance to Zenith him in. I was able to Rector in Conscription onto a Witness once. That ended the game in a single blow (he was at 13). Obviously you'd prefer to put it on Sigarda (hexproof, don't worry about the 2-for-1) or Krond (trigger is good), but if the coast is clear to stick it elsewhere... Should anyone try this out, keep in mind that if you Rector in the conscription after declaring your attackers you don't get the Annihilator trigger.
It does need a better spot though. I like Nightmare a LOT, wouldn't want to give it up permanently.
That seems jankier than usual, even for Nic Fit ^_^
Steve's been badgering me to try out an Omniscience. I've been pretending that my open slot is one while goldfishing, and I will admit that it does give the deck a legitimate way to kill someone -- once you have Omni and Recycle out, it's almost impossible to not win on the spot -- all you have to do is get to Nightmare, at which point you draw as much of your deck as you want, cast everything, and make your opponent skip their next 3 trillion untap steps.
There are other times where it's completely useless, because you run out of gas once you dump your hand with Omni, and you can't get to Recycle for some reason or another (not drawing a Rector is a big one). So you just topdeck your card directly into play, and it sucks.
We won't talk about what happens when you draw it, or open it in your 7.
At this point, while I am fond of it "when it works," I'm not thinking that it's good enough overall. Note that this is not referring to Viridia's 4-color list which can actually cast the damn thing. I'm just talking about shoehorning it into Rector, in the 1 slot that is currently open maindeck (currently Enlightened Tutor).
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Hey there it's been a while
Yes, go try Omniscience (yes I am completely not objective here :D )
Though I find it hard to include it in a "regular" Rector build. I mean if you wanna combo it with Recycle AND Nigthmare, that's quite the impossible setup to me, or too late to be worth doing it because as late gamer the deck should have already won. And anyway, does the deck not already win with Recycle on board ?
I have not tested it yet a lot, but it seems unlikely to lose if you got Top and Recycle on board.
Oh and by the way: Scroll Rack + Enlightened Tutor FTW !!! :p
but that's another story, I don't even play this anymore in my latest list of Omniscience BGw.
about Krond: it is GSZ'able, but for 7 CCM, I would rather play some Karns (yeah ok they can't get tutored, but still)
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arianrhod
That seems jankier than usual, even for Nic Fit ^_^
Steve's been badgering me to try out an Omniscience. I've been pretending that my open slot is one while goldfishing, and I will admit that it does give the deck a legitimate way to kill someone -- once you have Omni and Recycle out, it's almost impossible to not win on the spot -- all you have to do is get to Nightmare, at which point you draw as much of your deck as you want, cast everything, and make your opponent skip their next 3 trillion untap steps.
There are other times where it's completely useless, because you run out of gas once you dump your hand with Omni, and you can't get to Recycle for some reason or another (not drawing a Rector is a big one). So you just topdeck your card directly into play, and it sucks.
We won't talk about what happens when you draw it, or open it in your 7.
At this point, while I am fond of it "when it works," I'm not thinking that it's good enough overall. Note that this is not referring to Viridia's 4-color list which can actually cast the damn thing. I'm just talking about shoehorning it into Rector, in the 1 slot that is currently open maindeck (currently Enlightened Tutor).
Hahaha. Yeah, I've just been kinda fishing around for something fun to try the last couple weeks. Ran w/ Souls + Blessings last week, Krond + Conscription this week. The base Rector build has been pretty well set for a few months now, I need to try something new that I actually have the cards for (which rules out Scapeshift since of the many duals I own, Badlands and Tiagas are not in sufficient quantity to say nothing of Huntmasters, Scapeshifts, and who knows what else). I may give UR Delver a crack next week after someone posted a list running Temporal Mastery that seems interesting to me. And then it's back to base Rector so I can get a few weeks of practice in before SCG Indy.
Of course, in my fantasy scenario, Boros Charm makes Puresteel Paladin a playable card. I may just decide to screw around with some crazy Boros deck just because Puresteel is my favorite card ever :) (If you ever see someone at an event w/ this playmat, stop and say hi.)
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
I still can't decide what list to play next week >.>
If i get my Time Warps and such in i'll go ChronoFit, but i fear they might be late.
Actually thinking really hard about going 4-color again, with Rectors and Omniscience and shizzle, because i just love the Control/Combo archetype too much :D
Other options are Jace-Fit or Regular Rector, as my Blessing Token list wasnt performing as well as i hoped vs BUG decks, need to find a way to fix that first.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Tried out HoneyT's punishing fire list from GP Denver and it was amazing. The main is anti creatures and the board becomes just combo and control hate.
Any interesting ideas for a punishing fire list or sideboard strategies?
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
I haven't posted in here in awhile. I think I have my Old PFire list in here somewhere...
Found it!
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Wickerbough Elder
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Grave Titan
1 Broodmate Dragon
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun The last Troll
2 Senseis Top
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Thoughtseize
4 Green Sun
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Go For the Throat
2 Innocent Blood
3 Punishing Fire
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Garruk Primal Hunter
2 Maelstrom Pulse
Land:
4 Forest
4 Swamp
2 Mountain
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
This was pre RTR so Decay and DRS may get in here somewhere.
Edit: I dont remember the SB at all.. For awhile I ran Mindbreak Traps but those are probably horrible. I do remember having a Third Liliana and a Second Thoughtseize. And Red Blasts. I would probably do something like this now:
2 Thoughtseize
3 Red Blast
1 Liliana OTV
1 Pfire
1 Grove (for the creature MUs you get to make sure you draw the combo.)
Maybe a second Garruk for control MU's?
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
I have a list in my signature with which I did fairly well in Magic League Trials.
SB plans:
RUG:
- 4 Cabal Therapy
- 1 Primeval Titan
- 2 Punishing Fire
- 1 Recurring Nightmare
+ 3 Carpet of Flowers
+ 2 Abrupt Decay
+ 1 Go for the Throat
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast
BUG Delver:
- 4 Cabal Therapy
- 1 Primeval Titan
- 1 Recurring Nightmare
- 2 Thragtusk
+ 3 Carpet of Flowers
+ 2 Abrupt Decay
+ 1 Go for the Throat
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast
Stoneblade
- 3 Veteran Explorer
- 2 Damnation
- 1 Abrupt Decay
- 1 Green Sun's Zenith
- 1 Punishing Fire
+ 3 Carpet of Flowers
+ 2 Thoughtseize
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Slaughter Games
Miracles
- 3 Veteran Explorer
- 2 Damnation
- 2 Punishing Fire
- 2 Cabal Therapy
- 1 Wall of Blossoms
- 1 Green Sun's Zenith
+ 3 Carpet of Flowers
+ 2 Abrupt Decay
+ 2 Thoughtseize
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast
+ 2 Slaughter Games
BUG Control
too many different versions to give a good plan... siding somewhere between BUG Delver and Stoneblade depending on what you see G1
Jund
- 3 Cabal Therapy
+ 1 Go for the Throat
+ 2 Abrupt Decay
Junk: see Jund
- 3 Cabal Therapy
+ 1 Go for the Throat
+ 2 Abrupt Decay
+ 2 Engineered Plague if they have plenty of Confidant and Lingering Souls
Maverick
- 2 Thragtusk
+ 2 Engineered Plague
Combo decks
+ 3 Thoughtseize
+ 2 Slaughter Games
(+ 2 Engineered Plague against Belcher)
(+ 3 Carpet of Flowers and + 2 Red Elemental Blast vs. blue Combo decks)
- there are plenty of bad cards, side out the worst ones
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
You don't need some janky Krond in Rector, especially not to justify Conscription. Just slot a singleton Conscription in, nothing else, and watch the wins accumulate. Nothing else to it. Conscription doesn't need anything else - it's a tool of opportunity, a way to switch from defense to aggression when you sense weakness (or draw the nuts) and quickly seal the deal. Little else to it.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Thanks for the help. Boarding strategies seem more straightforward then I thought.
@tao how has 2 damnation been in your main?
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
@Tao,
What's your reasoning to board out Cabal Therapy against RUG and BUG delver? I don't think I've ever boarded Therapy out. Is it because our deck can handle anything they're going to toss out so there's not really a point to taking it from their hand?
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Cabal Therapy is not a good card against RUG. They don't have key spellls that you absolutely have to get rid of and you don't rely on a single Damnation/Deed either so you can live without getting rid of their FoW. They also have Brainstorm to meddle with Therapy and they cycle through their deck very quickly so you might not get much on the Flashback. You can trigger Explorer simply by blocking because you can easily kill their Delvers with Decay, REB or the Punishing Fires so they have to attack on the ground.
Against BUG Delver it is the same. If they have multiple Tombstalkers you should keep a few Therapies in the deck though, to trigger Explorer and snipe the FoW on your Tombstalker removal. Fixed sideboarding plans against BUG are impossible because BUG decks scale from hyper aggro/tempo to control and you never know exactly what they play. That is what I would begin with if they try to kill you with Delver, Goyf, DR Shaman, Snapcaster, Clique and/or Dark Confidant.
Though I guess Tombstalker has been more popular than Confidant recently so it is probably better to keep a few in. It really depends on what you see in G1.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
What do you think I could cut to trim down to 60?
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman (My view on this card is it isn't so much to grind out games, but to stall out if we happen to brick. I have no problems letting him die though if I have something out already.)
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor (An alternative win-condition and a way to keep combo off of their win condition)
1 Liliana of the Veil (Not so much an alternative win-condition, but works very, very well with JMS)
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter (Makes dudes, draws a lot, and acts as a supplemental win condition)
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Maelstrom Pulse (PW hate)
2 Damnation (Have yet to test this, but I believe it will keep Emrakul, Progenitus, and Iona-on-Green in the bin/deck)
4 Brainstorm
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Living Wish (G1 hate against combo, and random utility against other decks)
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Diabloic Intent
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold (Scoop to TuskLoop)
2 Mishra's Factory (Turns Primeval Titan into a potential 2 turn clock)
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
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3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Memoricide
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Angel of Despair
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
With 3 gsz and 2 living wish, move 1 drt to board.
You have UU, BB and GG. I don't like that. Kick out Jace and get rid of those two islands.
You have 60 cards MB and 15 SB, I counted twice.
- 1 DRS
-1 Jace
+ 2 meta depending (I'd say Thoughtseize or abrupt decay)
-2 islands
+ 1 phyrexian tower
+1 swamp
-1 tropical island
- 1 underground sea
+ 1 swamp
+ 1 urborg
Eww, just noticed 2 Tops, I'd wanna think about 3. You aren't Rectorfit and thus have no real access to Recycle so I'd at least pump your card quality.
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Always mess up listing the cards >_< will fix shortly
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Okay, I've made some changes to Rector, as promised. I'll encapsulate them here, along with updating the link in my sig.
Open/floater maindeck slot: -1 Intent/Omniscience/Arena/whatever, +1 Master of the Wild Hunt.
I like this so much better than Omni.
Omni did have the benefit of allowing you to randomly storm off into a win -- you just had to hit Recycle with Omni out, and then it became a simple matter of finding Recurring Nightmare. However, there were a couple of problems I noticed:
-) You -always- wanted to go for Omni first, because it reduces the chances of you drawing it. Additionally, being able to splooge your hand onto the field. Oftentimes, fetching Moat, Deed, or Recycle is better (or Fetters, situationally), despite being less flashy. And every time you don't fetch Omni is one fewer chance you'll have TO fetch Omni. Remember, Rector can't hardcast it. You have 3 Rectors. That means you have exactly three chances to put Omni out, assuming that your Rectors don't get messed with in any way, and that you find them, and set them off, before you draw Omni.
-) This brings me to flaw 2. Rector CANNOT be messed with. If you're playing against a competent opponent, and there's any of a wide variety of ways of dicking with Rector out, Omni becomes a massive liability because you NEED that Rector to get it out. If they have a Scavenging Ooze, you can't Rector out Omni. Deathrite Shaman. Post-board, any of a huge variety of things. And so on. Obviously you can avoid this problem by not playing to Omni....just play it like regular, but at that point, why are you running Omni at all?
-) Omni is, sometimes, horrible/useless. In my testing, I had a larger-than-I-would-have-expected number of situations come up where I slammed down Omni off of a Rector, and then just sat there, staring at my opponent and asking what do I do now. Once the initial splooge is over with (assuming you had one to begin with), you have -NO- way of regaining momentum aside from hitting Recycle.
So, why Omni is fun, I don't think it's what [traditional] Rector wants. Something that's more attuned to using it, sure -- then we'll talk. Looking right at Viridia here. But, as for a "stock" Rector list, you can't just shoehorn Omni in. Now I can say that I've tried, and as such now I can dismiss it as subpar.
This left me with that annoying, dangling open slot again. I decided that I wanted it to be a removal slot, because fuck Deathrite Shaman. As I was flipping through my binders, I stumbled upon an old favorite of mine from before Griselbrand/Omniscience were printed and drove Show and Tell batshit insane: Master of the Wild Hunt. Master is a savage beating against fair decks assuming that they don't have a sandbagged Swords/Bolt. He's immune to Abrupt Decay (though his tokens aren't, for what that's worth), and generates both a steady stream of dudes which can quickly disassemble a combo player, as well as a never-ending stream of removal that can take out Deathrites, Lingering Souls, and all varieties of other annoyances. He's an additional sac outlet for Rector, should you need to employ that, and is a pseudo-walker for rebuilding a board post-sweep against Miracles or Esperblade. He also fulfills an opening in the deck that had been annoying me for a while now: that of a Green Sun=4 target. He's always been good in the deck, but I believe that the meta has shifted far enough towards the durdle midrange mirror that Master is the nuts again.
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Sideboard: complete restructuring.
I looked very critically at my sideboard, and came to the conclusion that it was in desperate need of some reworking.
The staples: Nether Void, Humility, Cranial Extraction, Memoricide, 3 Carpet of Flowers.
These slots never change. I mean, I guess if Show and Tell randomly gets banned, then Humility could leave the board -- but I don't see Show getting axed any time in the near future, and as such, neither will Humility. Void is the best Rector target for stack-based combo, bar none. Cranial and Memoricide are my favored avenues of attacking combo decks of all types, and the Carpets are necessary to speed up combo hate by a turn or two, as well as subbing in for three Explorers vs blue control decks with a pile of basics, AS WELL as providing me with a means to get around RUG/BUG/UR Delver's taxing counters.
So yeah, once these 7 are set aside, what else do we want?
I knew I wanted a planeswalker of some variety. Elspeth and Garruk Relentless are both crazy good right now -- midrange decks can't punch through Elspeth before she goes nuclear, and Garruk flips himself off of Deathrite Shaman, then sticks around to produce 1/1 Fuck-Your-Goyfs, unless the opponent has a Decay immediately. In the end, I opted for Garruk because of the Master of the Wild Hunt maindeck. Vs Deathrite Shaman decks, this gives me big game. If I managed to assemble Veil-Cursed + Master, and they don't have the removal spell, I wish them the best of luck getting out of that with their board anything resembling intact. Relentless is, of course, a fine gentleman even without Cernunnos chillin' out. I opted for 2 copies.
When I put Relentless in, I decided to take Natural Order out. NO has been fine for me, but there is a serious problem with it that I haven't yet solved: the idea is to board out Rectors + Nightmare for NOs + Prog. However, this all-too-often led me to run short on removal, because it makes my Deeds completely draw-dependent. There were plenty of games where they just didn't have the Deathrite, and I was staring down an ugly-as-sin board state, and I had a NO in my hand with a Tower out, wistfully wishing that it was a Rector instead. I tried a few hybrid board plans, but they never worked, either -- too often I would have a NO when I needed a Rector, or a Rector when I needed a NO, or blah. I believe that NO is a concept to be revisited in the future, and that there is a missing link currently that's stopping it from really working to spec in Rector.
Next up was some more specific combo hate. Just Nether Void/Cranial x2 isn't enough. I've commented several times that I think that Leyline of Sanctity is stupid, stupid good right now. It's good vs combo of almost all stripes, it's good vs BUG/Junk/Liliana.dec, and it's good vs Burn -- which is cropping up more and more as a response to the BUG decks, since BUG can't beat Price of Progress, ever. I believe that 2 is a good number for now. That gives you a reasonable chance of opening one in your 7, or at least of drawing one otherwise if you get a solid grip. They're dead in multiples, and I don't want to dedicate a large number of slots in my board to them -- they're really good, but they aren't strictly better than the entire meta or anything.
I jockeyed back and forth about what I wanted my other combo hate to be. In the end I settled on ole faithful -- Extirpate. I had been thinking about getting cocky and trying something a little more traditional with those three slots, like Canonist or some such, but every hate bear had splash hate on us: Teeg stops Void/Cranial/Leyline, Thalia makes all of our spell-based hate cost more, slowing us down along with them, and Canonist has the most damning effect of all, in that it stops you from slamming Therapy+Flashback, or Rector+Therapy, both of which are critical plays against combo. It's also a worthy consideration that Reanimator is slowly creeping back into the spotlight, and I expect other graveyard decks, like AggroLoam, to make a resurgence as well. People aren't running gy hate anymore -- they're thinking that DRS is enough, and he really isn't. So having some combo hate that doubles as graveyard hate seems like a fine solution.
That left me with one slot open. I decided I wanted something else to tip the fair decks just a little bit more in my favor, and I also decided that I was going to experiment a little. The result: Deathgrip. I have no idea how it'll work, but I'm intrigued enough that I'm going to test it and see what happens.
The final board:
1x Humility
1x Nether Void
1x Cranial Extraction
1x Memoricide
3x Carpet of Flowers
2x Garruk Relentless
2x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Extirpate
1x Deathgrip
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Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBW Explorer Zenith Control)
Arianrhod, how good in Scapewish Olivia is? In what cases do you want to see her?