[DTB] Blade Control

I just spent the day playing at a Team event locally, 5 rounds and I was in the Legacy seat piloting WUr Stoneblade. Each match felt good, except for round 5 when I played against burn.


4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 True-Name Nemesis
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Counterspell
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Ponder
1 Spell Pierce
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Council's Judgment
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Karakas
1 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Plains
4 Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Tundra


And the sideboard

2 Meddling Mage
2 Flusterstorm
2 Containment Priest
2 Blood Moon
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Council's Judgment
1 Wear / Tear
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Supreme Verdict


Round 1: RUG Delver (2-0, Team 1-0)
Game one I spent a lot of time trying to kill turn 1 Delver and eating cards out of his hands until I drew a sweeper as he was flooding on lands. Game 2 I had all of the answers on time.

Round 2: Lands (1-1-x, Team 2-0)
I lost a lengthy game 1, and was on the verge of winning game 2 when my teammates won their Modern and Standard game. Game 3 not necessary

Round 3: Grixis Delver (2-1, Team 3-0)
I took game 1, he took game 2 in a quick exchange and savage Cabal Therapies, game 3 went to turns but I managed to seize control and equip Jitte on True-Name.

Round 4: Ant (2-1, Team 4-0)
I take game one when he casts Ad Naus and goes to 3. I fetch in response to his Lotus Petal after and bolt him. Game 2 he makes the requisite number of goblins to beat an early Batterskull and I am never in it. Game 3 goes long and he draws a lot of lands, I end the game with a mitt full of counterspells, flusterstorms, and a snapcaster. Then I end up beating him down with double Snapcaster while keeping my hand full of blue cards.

Round 5: No Fetch Burn (1-2, Team 4-1)
I lose game 1 to turn 1 Guide, turn 2 Guide + Swiftspear, t3 gas pedal. Game two I stabilize at low life and equip Jitte onto Batterskull. He concedes after the first hit. Game 3 I am fetching basics to avoid Price of Progress and try to stay in the fight by StPing my own True-Name. He burns me out.

For this, I boarded in Flusterstorms, SoFaI, and Wear / Tear. I took out Keranos, Jace x2, and 1x Ponder. Was there any other way I could have boarded to give me a better chance in the match? Or, any SB suggestions to make the burn match a little easier?

We end up drawing out the Top 4 and splitting prizes. My thoughts after the game are swapping a Keranos/Flusterstorm, and cutting a Pyroblast or Supreme Verdict from the board for a Sudden Demise. I need/want to fit in Surgical Extractions, but I don't know what I could even begin to cut in consideration for it.

Just finished 102 MU's with UWR Stoneblade with a list very similar to MzFroste's list. Got 68% win rate. Unfortunatelly just one 5-0 in leagues untill now although I got a plenty of 4-1. Jund is by far the worst MU of all. I think I must be doing something wrong cause I lost every game I played against the deck. Aluren, Lands, 12 Post Eldrazi and 4c Leovold are pretty hard too, but nothing compares to Jund.
In the other hand, Burn, Reanimator, Depths Decks, Bug Delver, DNT, Monored Stompy and Maverick are all favorable MUs. I thinkg Grixis Delver is 50-50 MU and depends a lot of their hands. If they get to stick a threat with a lot of diruption, they will likely win the game.
About the sideboard, RIP is better positioned than surgical in this deck. You want a permanent hate to the grave in fair MUs like bug delver, jund and lands and you countermagic can hold the game till a rip is online when playing against reanimator, so nothing to lose here. Red blats are amazing right now and can do the hard work against 4c leovold, show and tell, mirror, Miracles, even agains grixis delver. Canonist and flusterstorm are the anti-combo package and you can get some good use for flusterstorm against delver decks, 4c leovold and the mirror too.
Anyway, I am just curious about this win rate. I see there's a lot of players with a lot more 5-0 in the leagues and better results. Just wondering about their win rate. Someone told me a couple weeks ago that 75% win rate is what you need to be good online. If you have any thoughts on this, please let me know.

Results

https://preview.ibb.co/ndcK0F/Capturar.jpg


Decklist

https://preview.ibb.co/gyFHnv/Capturar.jpg

Won the Legacy monthly here locally, good for a decent chunk of store credit and 8 more rounds of practice for the Team Open this weekend. I took a very similar list to Saturday’s, but made some minor changes.

Round 1: Infect (2-1, 1-0 in matches)
He takes a quick game 1 with a plethora of pump spells. My removal doesn’t quite line up right for when it could be used.
-1 Council’s Judgment, -1 Batterskull, -1 Ponder, -2 Jace
+1 Flusterstorm, +1 Staticaster, +1 Pyro, +1 REB, +1 Wear / Tear
Games two and three turn into the grindy chipfest games Infect loves, but I manage to get an active Jitte in game two on a SfM and don’t start pumping it until I have at 5 counters, so I can respond to every potential pump spell he plays and still have a counter left over. Game 3 it much the same, I only have counters in my opener after a mulligan to 6, but draw into Bolt + Snap over two turns and am able to stabilize with a low amount of infect.

Round 2: LEDredge (2-0, 2-0 in matches)
He starts on Cephalid Coliseum into Careful Study (pitching Dredger) and LED. I Force LED and he Dredges, missing his 2nd land drop. I play SfM and get Jitte, then patiently build counters and kill my SfM to exile three Bridges. EE on 0 and then a True-Name seal with deal with me at 2.
-1 Council’s Judgment, -2 Jace, -1 Spell Snare, -1 Clique, -1 Counterspell, -1 TNN,
+2 Containment Priest, +1 Staticaster, +2 Surgical, +1 Supreme Verdict, +1 Meddling Mage
Game 2 I kill his early creatures to prevent a Dread Return on Iona, hit 3 Narcomeobas and Bridges with Extraction, StP his Ichorid’s, have an EE on 0, and slowly dismantle him until he’s reduced with Thug putting Narcomeoba on top as a chump blocker. Batterskull eventually equipping Jitte does the work from there.

Round 3: Aggro Loam (0-2, 2-1 in matches)
I lose to the ultimate side of variance and get screwed on lands both games. Game 1 I have Tundra + Fetch + Brainstorm in my opener but never draw another land and he wastes my Tundra. Game 2 I mulligan to 5 and keep a No Land plus cantrip hand, but never find a second before he kills me.

Round 4: Topless Miracles (2-0, 3-1 in matches)
I play a more aggressive role realizing he’s the control in this matchup, and maindeck EE as a lead-in test to resolving Jace locks him out of Entreating while I establish control and attack with TNN for the win after Clique in response to a miracle trigger to prevent Terminus.
-1 SfM, -1 TNN, -1 Spell Snare, -3 Lightning Bolt, -1 StP, -1 Jitte
+1 Keranos, +1 Council’s Judgment, +1 REB, +1 Pyro, +1 Fluster, +2 Surgical, +1 SoFaI
Game 2 I jam Jace on 4 with Force backup, but don’t protect it. He counters, I let it go, then Force his Jace and play Keranos on 5. Keranos gets it done from there and is soon joined by Jace number 2 providing all the cards I need to finish it out.

Round 5: Burn (0-2, 3-2 in matches)
We’re locked with a draw, but he wants to play to have a higher seed. We play and both games are close, but he’s able to burn me out before I get established.
-2 Jace, -1 Council’s Judgment, -1 Clique
+1 Fluster, +2 Meddling Mage, +1 Wear / Tear
Game 2 is closer and I kill 2x Guide, 4x Swiftspear, but the burn is too much to fight uphill against.

Top 8, 6th Seed
Top 8: Eldrazi (2-0, 4-2 in matches, on the draw)
Game 1 he draws too many lands, and I’m able to bolt early Mimics before getting Batterskull onto TNN. He does not draw All is Dust.
-1 Jace, -1 Clique, -2 Counterspell, -1 Ponder
+1 Verdict, +1 Council’s Judgment, +1 Staticaster, +1 Meddling Mage, +1 Wear / Tear
Game 2 I draw hot fire, bolting, StPing, and CJing anything that gets played before casting TNN and suiting it up.

Top 4: Turbo Depths (2-0, 5-2 in matches, on the play)
Game 1 he has turn 3 Marit Lage, but I chump with Clique (targeting myself, bottoming Supreme Verdict), then play t4 Jace and bounce it. After that I play control and keep his board clean while Fatesealing until a Jace ultimate.
-1 Fluterstorm, -1 Ponder, -1 TNN, -1 Jitte, -2 SfM
+2 Meddling Mage, +1 Council’s Judgment, +2 Surgical Extraction, +1 Wear/ Tear
Game 2 my opening keep is Snap, Surgical, Swords, Fetch x2, Tundra, Ponder. He leads on Thoughtseize taking Snap, then Duress taking StP and makes Marit Lage on 3. I proceed to topdeck Snap, Surgical Depths, and Snap+StP the token. Skill game. After that I play against two Massacres until I put Batterskull on Snap and Meddling Mage Massacre to stop any others. He concedes to Pikula.

Finals: Topless Miracles (2-0, 7-2 in matches, opponent’s choice)
This is the same player I was against in the Swiss. I offer a split and he no-Sir’s it, and has the choice to play or draw, and chooses to draw. This game is very similar to the one in the Swiss, where I take an aggressive role in the first game and play a threat on two (SfM, countered), three (TNN, countered), and four (Jace, he tries to counter, but I Force) backed up by an EE on 0 after Jace resolves. I proceed to tick Jace up every turn, and Ultimate him, then do nothing but play lands and discard cards in cleanup he knows about from our earlier game.
SB was the same as the Swiss. He chooses to draw again.
This goes almost exactly the same, but I hit an early Surgical on his Pyroblasts (4, no REB’s) to cut down his counter capability. EE on 0 gets hit by Wear / Tear and he Unexpectedly Absents my Keranos 5 cards deep. I play Snap + Pyro to counter something then suit it up with SoFaI to bait a Terminus, and then move into Jaceand suit True-Name up with SoFaI. Jace + Sword draw me enough to finish him off the turn he’s able to blind draw into Entreat for 5.

The deck felt great again, except for the burn match and losing to the land screw in round 3. Round 3 style games will happen though, so I’m not too upset about how that one went when I look back on it. I have a few small changes in mind before the Team Open this weekend, but definitely am interested in feedback concerning the more troublesome matches.

How has Keranos been?

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Originally Posted by NimbleJosh

How has Keranos been?

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Once I moved it to the side it felt great. It's exactly the card that I want in a "go long play draw-go" style of game.
The limited ways to remove it after resolution is gravy, and the cards it can provide by helping you dig through a no fetch brainstorm is tough to beat.

Has anyone tried UW stoneblade or USA delver? They're pretty similar except more low to the ground. I like the 4 wastelands in the two decks because you get to punish people that keep greedy hands. I also like them because it makes opponents mulligan more aggressively to find lands/avoid getting wasted out, thus making winning easier. I think the trade off of dropping red/power for consistency/wasteland fear seems reasonable. UW stoneblade can still play a nice control game still too. Going to experiment with one of these at my weekly locals tonight hehe

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Originally Posted by QKisMyName

Has anyone tried UW stoneblade or USA delver? They're pretty similar except more low to the ground. I like the 4 wastelands in the two decks because you get to punish people that keep greedy hands. I also like them because it makes opponents mulligan more aggressively to find lands/avoid getting wasted out, thus making winning easier. I think the trade off of dropping red/power for consistency/wasteland fear seems reasonable. UW stoneblade can still play a nice control game still too. Going to experiment with one of these at my weekly locals tonight hehe

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I've played both UWR Delver and UWR Stoneblade at my LGS Legacy monthly events.

1st run with UWR Delver put me in top 4
2nd run with UWR Delver I played for a Mox but didn't make top 8 so my record is irrelevant
3rd run with UWR Stoneblade finished in 10th

I have another tournament coming up at the beginning of August. It's for a local legacy league. Top 8 gives me enough points to qualify for the invitational and a top 16 finish will give me enough points to have a good shot. So the pressure is on to do well at this next event.

I myself am torn between Delver and Stoneblade. Delver has the free wins with wastelands and early removal but Stoneblade has the long game with Snapcaster Mage and Jace, the Mind Sculptor. both run very unique game plans while both run a majority of the same cards. I've been following the success of the Stoneblade lists lately and this deck is putting up results quite frequently and in larger tournament sizes.

Delver is more streamlined and low to the ground, can finish games quickly and forces opponents to have removal for the early delver which makes Stoneforge Mystic able to survive easier. Plus there's the whole play of turn 1 delver, turn 2 wasteland your land, bolt/swords your creature. This can often be so back breaking the game is just over before it can even begin.

So as to the question as to which should you run Delver or Stoneblade? The answer is....I DON'T KNOW! lol

In all honesty, I think Stoneblade is a better option mostly due to the fact that it has lots of basic lands (I was a miracles player so i love me some basic lands) as well as it is hard to argue with the results the deck has been putting up lately. While there isn't a lot of people playing this deck necessarily, it has put up some strong finishes and that's nothing to sneeze at.

What is your general gameplan against aluren? I never win a single game!!!

Try Containment Priest for Aluren. You have to cast it in response to them casting a Cavern Harpy for it to be effective, but it's a fairly decent strategy against the archetype. Also surgical on a discarded/countered Aluren takes the wind out of their sails pretty efficiently.

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Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee

Try Containment Priest for Aluren. You have to cast it in response to them casting a Cavern Harpy for it to be effective, but it's a fairly decent strategy against the archetype. Also surgical on a discarded/countered Aluren takes the wind out of their sails pretty efficiently.

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Ethersworn Canonist*

My mistake, yes, Ethersworn, and again, in response to the Harpy, as any other time they just do everything in response and you lose to them with your canonist on the stack.

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With the Jeskai Stoneblade list that people are playing how important is it to have 3 Volcanics currently I only have 2 and was wondering.

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Two volcanic and a mountain are enough red lands to cast bolts, moon and blasts

Meant to put I only have 1 Volc didn't double check that post well enough.

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Originally Posted by Excrempus

Meant to put I only have 1 Volc didn't double check that post well enough.

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One volcanic is not enough to play UWR if that is your intention

I agree about needing more red sources. I run 4 (2 Volc, 1 Plateau, 1 Mountain) in my UWr list

Why so many basic lands in this deck? I understand why you would want 1 Plains and 2 Islands but not Plains#2 and Island#3-4. The second Plains only casts Council's Judgment (1-of?). Only in versions with multiple Verdicts do I see the use for it. As for the 3rd Island, it mostly casts Snapcaster into Counterspell which is pretty narrow. Why not additional fetches, duals, or even Wastelands (Land hate is our weakness) instead of superfluous amounts of basic lands?

Am I the only one underwhelmed with council's judgement?

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Originally Posted by NimbleJosh

Am I the only one underwhelmed with council's judgement?

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No. I find EE #2 to be superior. CMC1-2 wrath against DnT, Elves, and Delver is amazing and so is being able to wrath at 0 for Chalice or Goblin tokens. Council is good at answering Jace or removing TNN without losing our own.

I think Judgment is there as a safety measure for any random permanent that could prevent you from grinding your opponent such as a Moat or a Grave Pact. The fact that it can be Snapcasted is gravy. EE and Judgment overlap and they both have their own restrictions. I guess the idea behind the split is that if you were to draw both, the split covers more than multiples of the same card.

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Originally Posted by zebhillard

Once I moved it to the side it felt great. It's exactly the card that I want in a "go long play draw-go" style of game.
The limited ways to remove it after resolution is gravy, and the cards it can provide by helping you dig through a no fetch brainstorm is tough to beat.

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What does your current sideboard look like now? And what is your SB plan for Grixis Delver and Storm? I'm planning on bringing something pretty similar to GP Denver this weekend for side events and sideboarding correctly is always my biggest weakness.

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Originally Posted by Qweerios

Why so many basic lands in this deck? I understand why you would want 1 Plains and 2 Islands but not Plains#2 and Island#3-4. The second Plains only casts Council's Judgment (1-of?). Only in versions with multiple Verdicts do I see the use for it. As for the 3rd Island, it mostly casts Snapcaster into Counterspell which is pretty narrow. Why not additional fetches, duals, or even Wastelands (Land hate is our weakness) instead of superfluous amounts of basic lands?

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It's a feature. 6 basics is insane against blood moon / back to basics / wasteland / everything.

Has anyone tested runed halo? Seems pretty good against storm, TNN and depths.

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Originally Posted by NimbleJosh

Has anyone tested runed halo? Seems pretty good against storm, TNN and depths.

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Can runed halo name marit lage? Meddling mage seems like it would be better vs storm(since its also a clock). Against TNN maybe?

Runed Halo can not name Tokens.
Tokens are not cards.

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Originally Posted by Nicklas

Runed Halo can not name Tokens.
Tokens are not cards.

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This. I learned this the hard way when I tried to pithing needle my opponent who had a billion Clue Tokens in play from Tireless Tracker.

has anyone though about playing Teferi's response?? with DNT ,Grixis and Lands running so rampant in the meta

Hi everyone. I noticed that the primer for blade control is pretty outdated. I have some experience with the deck and have been playing it a bit recently, so I was wondering if anyone would be interested in a new more up-to-date primer.

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Originally Posted by RankaLee

has anyone though about playing Teferi's response?? with DNT ,Grixis and Lands running so rampant in the meta

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Certainly a sweet card, but in a deck with so many basics I don't think we need to be that concerned with decks that are targeting our lands. Against Landss I'd rather just play blood moon and win the game than draw 2 cards.

So I've gotten the go-ahead from Dice to create a new UWx blade primer. It will be a primer for all Blade decks not including Deathrite.

If anyone would like to collaborate with me on the primer, shoot me a PM. In particular I am looking for someone to weigh in on Esper Stoneblade as my experience is mostly with straight UW or UWR lists.

Also if anyone knows how to make one of those cool banners that some primers have, I'd love to add one and would be sure to give you credit in the primer. I was thinking one with SFM, jitte and Jace art would be cool :)

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Originally Posted by FZA

So I've gotten the go-ahead from Dice to create a new UWx blade primer. It will be a primer for all Blade decks not including Deathrite.

If anyone would like to collaborate with me on the primer, shoot me a PM. In particular I am looking for someone to weigh in on Esper Stoneblade as my experience is mostly with straight UW or UWR lists.

Also if anyone knows how to make one of those cool banners that some primers have, I'd love to add one and would be sure to give you credit in the primer. I was thinking one with SFM, jitte and Jace art would be cool :)

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I've been playing nothing but straight esper (no drs) since I got back into magic albeit it's only been a couple months, I would be glad to share my.opinion but I'll be the first to say I'm not the most tested of players with the deck. Prior to this I played Zoo from like 2009 to 2012

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Originally Posted by 13b

I've been playing nothing but straight esper (no drs) since I got back into magic albeit it's only been a couple months, I would be glad to share my.opinion but I'll be the first to say I'm not the most tested of players with the deck. Prior to this I played Zoo from like 2009 to 2012

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Your input would still be much appreciated :)

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Originally Posted by FZA

Hi everyone. I noticed that the primer for blade control is pretty outdated. I have some experience with the deck and have been playing it a bit recently, so I was wondering if anyone would be interested in a new more up-to-date primer.

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That would be very Nice of you. But I do like having access to the old information as well.

Now I have a question for everyone to answer. I'm rather new in Legacy, but I've been playing competitative Magic since Innistrad block. I've been playing several of different decks in Legacy, to figure which deck suits my playstyle the most. I started with ANT, which is very nice to play, althought boring in the long run. Other decks I've played is Maverick, Miracles (pre top Ban), Grixis Control, Grixis Delver and various Stoneblade variants. Now onto my question. I have a very hard time figuring why people are playing the UWr version of Stoneblade over straight UW? To me UW just seems superior. UW is immune to Wasteland, it has Back to Basics in the board, which kinda overperform compared to Blood Moon. Especially with all those DRS running around, fixing the mana under the Moon. I know Pyroblast and REB is huge in Legacy, and i do miss them from time to time.

I'm very sure that I'm on some sort of Stoneblade list from now on. I feel like that is my archtype. I need some information regarding pros and cons of the different variants. I know forbindtance that UW have a hard time beating the pile deck. I need more of information like that so i can switch variant in regards to meta predictions (which i usually is very skilled at).

Thank you very much for Reading, and even more for replying :)
Best regards
aRSKOG

Is it just me or our matchup vs elves awful.
I'm playing straight esper with no drs. I have quite a bit of hate vs them and can't seem to win a set. I feel the matchup is so helpless.
Any ideas on how to win this?

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Originally Posted by aRSKOG

Now onto my question. I have a very hard time figuring why people are playing the UWr version of Stoneblade over straight UW? To me UW just seems superior. UW is immune to Wasteland, it has Back to Basics in the board, which kinda overperform compared to Blood Moon. Especially with all those DRS running around, fixing the mana under the Moon. I know Pyroblast and REB is huge in Legacy, and i do miss them from time to time.

I'm very sure that I'm on some sort of Stoneblade list from now on. I feel like that is my archtype. I need some information regarding pros and cons of the different variants. I know forbindtance that UW have a hard time beating the pile deck. I need more of information like that so i can switch variant in regards to meta predictions (which i usually is very skilled at).
aRSKOG

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Hi,

I am an esper player since a long time playing in west europe. I only played the UWr version for a short period of time, when TC and DTT was legal tournament cards, obviously for pyroblast. After the ban of TC and DTT, back to esper, as the deck was not performing well enough. Esper was better, discard and souls were solid against most of the fields.

I recently switched to UW as esper is decreasing. Discard is not efficient anymore in the current meta, at least for esper.

So back to your question, why I switched to UW over UWr.

Manabase

As you mentioned, the manabase of UW is really hard to disrupt with 6 basics and 10 fetches.
Moreover, it is easier to assemble both 2 plains and 2 islands in play, enabling your expensive spells like Council and Jace.
You also have access to Wasteland, allowing the deck to be more efficient against different strategies. Wastelands are good against D&T, to remove Karakas and the Port. They are also good to reduce the efficiency of Grove against loam decks, because Punishing Fire may be annoying. They are also good against ramp strategies, like big eldrazi. It is a bad machup otherwise. Good against manlands, such as Inkmoth Nexus, Mutavault. You can also handle Boseiju, played in some combo decks, as you are not playing discard cards, you mostly have counters for them.

Counters

In the UW version, you can cast your maindeck Counterspell more effectively, as per your manabase. It is important against decks playing wasteland.
Otherwise, it is pretty similar, except for the sideboard pyroblasts in UWr that adds better counters to fight other blue control decks.

Removal
I personnaly think that Council is better than Lightning Bolt. So this is one of the reason I play UW over UWr. I think that Bolt is not at is best in this kind of control strategy. Bolt is really effective, cheap, played at instant speed but is more dependant on the deck you are playing against. Council is better suited for our strategy, can remove other PW, artifacts, untargetable creatures (TNN). It is also good against Leovold, Mother without summoning sickness and so on.
UWr may play Engineered Explosives, very versatile and effective. Difficult to replace in UW, as 2 colors are not sufficient to play this wonderful card. So I play Verdict. Uncounterable and at least, a blue card to pitch. Pretty effective in this version because you have a great manabase and you can reliably play it on turn 4.

Sideboard
I think that blood moon is better than back to basics, but in this UW version, it is not that important as your are playing Wasteland. I rather keep my sideboard slots for other cards than land disruption.
Some are talking about Elves being a bad matchup. Even if you are not playing 3 colors, sweeper can be added in your sideboard and the best for Elves is Engineered Explosives. You keep your creatures alive (SFM and TNN) and it only cost 3 mana. By playing red you have access to Pyroclasm or Izzet Staticaster for example. I still think that you are fine with explosives. Also great against D&T and grixis delver.
Last thing, you mention Czech Pile being difficult to fight. It is. Pyroblast can wreck your strategy, effectively removing your Jace or countering your Snapcaster and TNN. But they have weaknesses, and the UW version can switch its angle of attack. You can board in a white PW like Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, they will have a really hard time dealing with him.

I hope that it may help you choose the best version for you.

It would be great to have another sight by a UWr player.

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Originally Posted by aRSKOG

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I have a very hard time figuring why people are playing the UWr version of Stoneblade over straight UW? To me UW just seems superior. UW is immune to Wasteland, it has Back to Basics in the board, which kinda overperform compared to Blood Moon. Especially with all those DRS running around, fixing the mana under the Moon. I know Pyroblast and REB is huge in Legacy, and i do miss them from time to time.

...

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I've waffled back and forth between UW and UWr for a while. The Red splash clearly adds a huge amount of power to the deck. Despite its solid manabase, UW has to rely on clunky interaction like Council's Judgement and Supreme Verdict. Pyroblast/Red Blast and Lightning Bolt are both versatile and extremely efficient. Remember Bolt can go after Planeswalkers, and Snap + Bolt targeting the opponent wins plenty of games. Blood Moon is better than Back to Basics IMO because it doesn't get Pyro/Red Blasted and shuts off all land shenanigans until dealt with. UWr also has great sideboard options to efficiently deal with creatures like Izzet Staticaster, Grim Lavamancer, Pyroclasm, etc which UW totally lacks. Adding a 3rd color to the manabase isn't free, but you can still comfortably play 5 or 6 basics in UWr. I think many people have concluded that the upside of the R splash outweighs its cost.

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Originally Posted by sagagx

Hi,

I am an esper player since a long time playing in west europe. I only played the UWr version for a short period of time, when TC and DTT was legal tournament cards, obviously for pyroblast. After the ban of TC and DTT, back to esper, as the deck was not performing well enough. Esper was better, discard and souls were solid against most of the fields.

I recently switched to UW as esper is decreasing. Discard is not efficient anymore in the current meta, at least for esper.

So back to your question, why I switched to UW over UWr.

Manabase

As you mentioned, the manabase of UW is really hard to disrupt with 6 basics and 10 fetches.
Moreover, it is easier to assemble both 2 plains and 2 islands in play, enabling your expensive spells like Council and Jace.
You also have access to Wasteland, allowing the deck to be more efficient against different strategies. Wastelands are good against D&T, to remove Karakas and the Port. They are also good to reduce the efficiency of Grove against loam decks, because Punishing Fire may be annoying. They are also good against ramp strategies, like big eldrazi. It is a bad machup otherwise. Good against manlands, such as Inkmoth Nexus, Mutavault. You can also handle Boseiju, played in some combo decks, as you are not playing discard cards, you mostly have counters for them.

Counters

In the UW version, you can cast your maindeck Counterspell more effectively, as per your manabase. It is important against decks playing wasteland.
Otherwise, it is pretty similar, except for the sideboard pyroblasts in UWr that adds better counters to fight other blue control decks.

Removal
I personnaly think that Council is better than Lightning Bolt. So this is one of the reason I play UW over UWr. I think that Bolt is not at is best in this kind of control strategy. Bolt is really effective, cheap, played at instant speed but is more dependant on the deck you are playing against. Council is better suited for our strategy, can remove other PW, artifacts, untargetable creatures (TNN). It is also good against Leovold, Mother without summoning sickness and so on.
UWr may play Engineered Explosives, very versatile and effective. Difficult to replace in UW, as 2 colors are not sufficient to play this wonderful card. So I play Verdict. Uncounterable and at least, a blue card to pitch. Pretty effective in this version because you have a great manabase and you can reliably play it on turn 4.

Sideboard
I think that blood moon is better than back to basics, but in this UW version, it is not that important as your are playing Wasteland. I rather keep my sideboard slots for other cards than land disruption.
Some are talking about Elves being a bad matchup. Even if you are not playing 3 colors, sweeper can be added in your sideboard and the best for Elves is Engineered Explosives. You keep your creatures alive (SFM and TNN) and it only cost 3 mana. By playing red you have access to Pyroclasm or Izzet Staticaster for example. I still think that you are fine with explosives. Also great against D&T and grixis delver.
Last thing, you mention Czech Pile being difficult to fight. It is. Pyroblast can wreck your strategy, effectively removing your Jace or countering your Snapcaster and TNN. But they have weaknesses, and the UW version can switch its angle of attack. You can board in a white PW like Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, they will have a really hard time dealing with him.

I hope that it may help you choose the best version for you.

It would be great to have another sight by a UWr player.

---

I was working on my u/w stoneblade build. Do you mind posting your decklist and sb. I need to figure out my sideboard options and wouldn't mind some suggestions.

Thanks,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sagagx

Hi,

I am an esper player since a long time playing in west europe. I only played the UWr version for a short period of time, when TC and DTT was legal tournament cards, obviously for pyroblast. After the ban of TC and DTT, back to esper, as the deck was not performing well enough. Esper was better, discard and souls were solid against most of the fields.

I recently switched to UW as esper is decreasing. Discard is not efficient anymore in the current meta, at least for esper.

So back to your question, why I switched to UW over UWr.

Manabase

As you mentioned, the manabase of UW is really hard to disrupt with 6 basics and 10 fetches.
Moreover, it is easier to assemble both 2 plains and 2 islands in play, enabling your expensive spells like Council and Jace.
You also have access to Wasteland, allowing the deck to be more efficient against different strategies. Wastelands are good against D&T, to remove Karakas and the Port. They are also good to reduce the efficiency of Grove against loam decks, because Punishing Fire may be annoying. They are also good against ramp strategies, like big eldrazi. It is a bad machup otherwise. Good against manlands, such as Inkmoth Nexus, Mutavault. You can also handle Boseiju, played in some combo decks, as you are not playing discard cards, you mostly have counters for them.

Counters

In the UW version, you can cast your maindeck Counterspell more effectively, as per your manabase. It is important against decks playing wasteland.
Otherwise, it is pretty similar, except for the sideboard pyroblasts in UWr that adds better counters to fight other blue control decks.

Removal
I personnaly think that Council is better than Lightning Bolt. So this is one of the reason I play UW over UWr. I think that Bolt is not at is best in this kind of control strategy. Bolt is really effective, cheap, played at instant speed but is more dependant on the deck you are playing against. Council is better suited for our strategy, can remove other PW, artifacts, untargetable creatures (TNN). It is also good against Leovold, Mother without summoning sickness and so on.
UWr may play Engineered Explosives, very versatile and effective. Difficult to replace in UW, as 2 colors are not sufficient to play this wonderful card. So I play Verdict. Uncounterable and at least, a blue card to pitch. Pretty effective in this version because you have a great manabase and you can reliably play it on turn 4.

Sideboard
I think that blood moon is better than back to basics, but in this UW version, it is not that important as your are playing Wasteland. I rather keep my sideboard slots for other cards than land disruption.
Some are talking about Elves being a bad matchup. Even if you are not playing 3 colors, sweeper can be added in your sideboard and the best for Elves is Engineered Explosives. You keep your creatures alive (SFM and TNN) and it only cost 3 mana. By playing red you have access to Pyroclasm or Izzet Staticaster for example. I still think that you are fine with explosives. Also great against D&T and grixis delver.
Last thing, you mention Czech Pile being difficult to fight. It is. Pyroblast can wreck your strategy, effectively removing your Jace or countering your Snapcaster and TNN. But they have weaknesses, and the UW version can switch its angle of attack. You can board in a white PW like Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, they will have a really hard time dealing with him.

I hope that it may help you choose the best version for you.

It would be great to have another sight by a UWr player.

---

I play the UW version for basically the reasons you listed. Pyroblast / REB is super strong, and not having it probably costs me some percentage points in some matchups post-board. Being Blood Moon proof is a major plus, as I see a ton of that in my meta. I run a maindeck Back to Basics, and it is a beating against a lot of decks, but also lets me continue to fetch. Plus it pitches to Force of Will. I also play a Moat / Elspeth Knight Errant package out of the board that many decks have almost no answers to. I feel like UW gives me better game 1's, and rewards tight play more. That can often overcome slightly less powerful top decks from the UWr version. Let me know if you're interested in a decklist.

Guys,

sure here is my decklist:

4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
4 Island
2 Plains
4 Tundra
3 Wasteland
23

3 Snapcaster Mage
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic
10

4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Force of Will
1 Flusterstorm
2 Counterspell
1 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Council's Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
22

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
5

SB:
2 Containment Priest
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Flusterstorm
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Disenchant
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
15

Some explanation on a few cards:
- Flusterstorm over Spell Pierce. Spell Pierce is being less reliable these days and we see fewer PW. Fluster can counter more effectively even in the long run.
- Spell Snare over the 3rd Counterspell. I like this card because it's still a hard counter, conditional that's true, but when you are in the draw in give you a huge gain of tempo. And you are not playing bolt, so it is important to counter cards like Dark Confidant or Young Pyro. Great against other control deck as you are countering snap for only 1 mana. Still, many are playing the 3rd Counterspell, what are you thoughts on Spell Snare ?
- About the creatures, I want to keep my mana open more frequently, so I only play 3 TNN. Many are playing full 4. It's less aggressive but I rather keep my mana open on the first turns so, even if I have a TNN in hand, I may just holding it in hand, waiting for the right time. About the snap, as we are not playing bolt, I felt comfortable with 3 of them. It may be rather slow, 4 mana to flashback a Counterspell is a dream in many games.
- About the 4 mana, I focus my strategy over Jace. Jace win you the game so I am playing 3 to have it early.
- Last thing about the main, 3 Council. We need a quick answer to Liliana. You cannot reliably conterspell Liliana, because of the discard spells weakening your hand. Council is straightforward, regardless of the number of loyalty on her.

For the sideboard, I faced many BR rea with chancellor being an issue. So Macabre over Surgical. I keep one Surgical for loam/PF decks.
The blue blast is versatile. Hard counter against pyroblast or kolaghan's, as against Czech Pile Fluster is not reliable enough. The game may last a long time, so the Czech player will have many lands in play. Great against sneak attack deck, burn, U/R delver, grixis delver (also counter the artifact destruction spell he will board in).
Gideon for other blue control decks with pyroblast, such as Czech and Mentor. The mentor player may side out some swords to board in pyroblast.

Happy to get your list as well.

Thank you very much @sagagx for that very decent in depth analysis. It was very usefull to me!

Now we're talking decklists, I'm going to share mine as well, and my current sideboard plan. I'm very much aware that a sideboard plan isn't final, and i always make adjustment in matches depending on what tweaks i see. But it is a baseline, which is very good to have! Especially in match 5+ where you brain is starting to crumble after so many matches of magic.

My current decklist is the exact 75 from the winning deck at KMC 80th. UW Blade Control
For those of you who cant be bothered clicking the link, here it is:

4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique

4 Brainstorm
2 Council's Judgment
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Windswepth Heath
4 Flooded Strand
5 Island
1 Karakas
3 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn / I'm considering to run 2 polluted 2 tarn to avoid a narrow case of Pithing Needle etc.
3 Tundra

Sideboard:
2 Back to Basics
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Containment Priest
1 Disenchant
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Flusterstorm
1 Hydroblast
1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Currently this is my sideboard plan. Please make all the comments you like. I'm not going to change my mainboard/sideboard for now, as I'm going to attend MKM Hamborg from 16-17 september, and too many changes is no good. Rather stick with what i know (have).
I've tried to make a sideboard plan with commens. The info i use is: Keycards, which are the cards i need to win the matchup. Role, which refers to if I'm on the beatdown or the control. Sometimes i need to be a little of both depending on my opening 7. Tempo means i need 1 creature and to protect it, that's plan A.

Grixis Delver / 4 Control:
+2 Back to Basics
+1 Sword of Feast and Famine
+1 Pithing Needle
-4 Force of Will

Keycards: True-Name Nemesis, Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Back to Basics
Role: Tempo / Control
Thoughts: This matchup is about slamming a TNN and protect it for the win. In my testing so far, SFM has been inferior and I'm considering to cut that instead of FoW - the idea is, that FoW can protect TNN. Althought 2for1 yourself is very very bad in a matchup where managing your resources is key. I'm still wondering if Hydroblast / Blue Elemental Blast is worth it. The times I've played this matchup, Back to Basics has been key. If you manage to slam it at the right time (when he is tapped out) you will almost always win the match.

ANT
+2 Surgical Extractions
+2 Ethersworn Canonist
+2 Hydroblast
+2 Flusterstorm
-4 Swords to Plowshares
-2 Council’s Judgment
-1 Jitte
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Keycards: Ethersworn Canonist, Flusterstorm
Role: Beatdown / Control
Thoughts: We need to win, and we need to do it as fast as possible. With that said, the number one priority is to make sure that the ANT-player doesn't win. This could be an argument for taking the controlling rute to victory.

Lands
+2 Back to Basics
+2 Surgical Extraction
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Disenchant
-2 Swords to Plowshares
-2 Council’s Judgment
-1 Jitte
-1 Spell Snare

Keycards: Surgical Extraction, Back to Basics, Basic lands, TNN, Karakas, Swords to Plowshares
Role: Beatdown
Thoughts: If Surgical isnt in the opening, the game needs to be closed fast. Merit Large can't be beaten in a race, but we got plenty of answers. But I've only played this matchup once with UW, so I'm very uncertaint about it.

Sneak and Show
+2 Flusterstorm
+2 Containment Priest
+2 Ethersworn Canonist
+2 Hydroblast
+1 Pithing Needle
+2 Surgical Extraction
-4 Swords to Plowshares
-2 Council’s Judgment
-1 Spell Snare
-1 Jitte
-3 True-Name Nemesis

Keycards:
Role:
Thoughts: Honestly, i have no Idea as i havent played against the deck, like ever. This is pure theorycrafting and i believe its about stopping their S&T and ride your BS to victory.

Death & Taxes
+1 Disenchant
+1 Pithing Needle
+2 Containment Priest
-4 Force of Will

Keycards: anything that stops Vial and kill creatures
Role: Control
Thoughts: I've tried this matchup once and to me it seems like a good matchup to us. TNN + Jitte is hillarious. I'm still not sure if Back to Basics should come in, as they actually run alot of utility lands. Most likely a mistake to include B2B.

Reanimator
+2 Surgical Extraction
+2 Flusterstorm
-1 True-Name Nemesis
-1 Jitte
-2 Council’s Judgment

Keycards: Surgical Extraction, Force of Will
Role: Control
Thoughts: Number one priority is to stop their reanimation. If succeed i believe the odds of winning is fairly high, escpecially if facing the BR version. I havent played against the version running blue yet, så not sure about that matchup.

UWx Stoneblade
+2 Flusterstorm
+1 Sword of Feast and Famine
+1 Disenchant
-4 Force of Will

Keycards: Vendilion Clique, True-Name Nemesis
Role: Control / Tempo
Thoughts: I haven't actually played the mirror, but i believe its about the same as any other control mirror. Place a threat, protect it - instant threats are the best as that force the opponent to do something on their own turn. Maybe Containment Priest is worth it, just for the 2/2 instant speed threat?

Eldrazi Stompy
+1 Disenchant
+2 Back to Basics
-1 Spell Snare
-2 Spell Pierce

Keycards: Force of Will (stop Chalice), Back to Basics (lock them out of the game)
Role: Control
Thoughts: To me this matchup feels like #1 to stop chalice, #2 to time your B2B and after that, win the game with whatever threat you got in your hand.

Aggro Loam
+2 Surgical Extraction
+1 Disenchant
+1 Pithing Needle
-4 Force of Will

Keycards:
Role:
Thoughts: Again theorycraft. Never played the matchup but i figure its about stopping their engines and then ride a TNN/Batterskull to victory.

Grixis Control
+2 Hydroblast
+1 Sword of Feast and Famine
-3 Ponder

Keycards: True-Name Nemesis
Role: Control
Thoughts: Feels like this matchup is about answering your opponents threats till the coast is clear for your True-Name Nemesis to take over the game. Sword has been surprisingly good for me so far (if it sticks) and Hydroblast beats keycards such as Young Pyromancer and Kolaghan's Command.

Sultai Delver
+1 Pithing Needle
+2 Back to Basics
+1 Sword of Feast and Famine
-4 Force of Will

Keycards: True-Name Nemesis, Back to Basics
Role: Control / Tempo
Thoughts: Attrition fight, and SFM seems superior in this matchup. If they get locked out by B2B its pretty much win - watch out for Decay thought.

Miracles
+2 Surgical Extractions
+2 Flusterstorm
-4 Force of Will

Keycards: Swords to Plowshares, Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Role: Tempo / beatdown
Thoughts: I've tried this matchup once, and my #1 plan was to stop the mentors and it worked out. I won both matches on the back of JTMS so this makes me believe that it is the best/safest wincon. But I'm far from sure of that.

Burn
+2 Hydroblast
+2 Flusterstorm
+1 Disenchant
-2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
-1 Vendilion Clique
-1 Windswept Heath
-1 Ponder

Keycards: Stoneforge Mystic, Hydroblast, Basic Lands
Role: Control
Thoughts: We got alot of Burn in my current meta, which is why this matchup is here. The matchup is all about getting Batterskull online (with protection) and ride it to victory. The reason for Disenchant is to stop their Vortex. Honestly it feels like a good matchup for UW Blade Control, and I havent lost a match to Burn yet.

Maybeboard: Cards which i need to test some day

Gideon of the Trials
Thoughts: He is just SO good in modern UW control, and with Legacy being more removal/threat light i think his +1 is actually really good. Furthermore i have a hard time seeing how Combo decks can beat his ultimate G1.

This is what i got for now. Thank you very much for reading, and even more for helping me improve by suggesting other rules / new ideas. If anyone got more in depth analysis of the different (or other) matchups, feel free to comment - i really like to have as much information as possible.

Best regards
//aRSKOG

Here's my list. It's unconventional for sure, but has served me well.

Land (23)
1x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
5x Island
1x Karakas
3x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
3x Tundra
2x Wasteland

Sorcery (5)
1x Council's Judgment
3x Ponder
1x Supreme Verdict

Enchantment (1)
1x Back to Basics

Planeswalker (2)
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Instant (15)
4x Brainstorm
2x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
1x Spell Pierce
4x Swords to Plowshares

Creature (11)
3x Snapcaster Mage
4x Stoneforge Mystic
2x True-Name Nemesis
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Venser, Shaper Savant

Artifact (3)
1x Batterskull
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard (15)
1x Back to Basics
1x Containment Priest
1x Disenchant
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Enlightened Tutor
2x Flusterstorm
2x Meddling Mage
1x Moat
1x Pithing Needle
2x Rest in Peace
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Surgical Extraction