Or maybe Chain is still just the best card for that slot.Quote:
Originally Posted by thefringthing
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Or maybe Chain is still just the best card for that slot.Quote:
Originally Posted by thefringthing
I'd considered running Perish for a bit in order to deal with [green]ball decks, but that wouldn't help deal with a Craterhoof because Perish is a sorcery, and three mana's too much. I'm inclined to agree with you, especially because Elves doesn't have Mom to stop point-kills/bounce.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander
If you cut Disfigure for Chain, are you bringing in Chain against Grixis or are you just letting them have their Deathrite?
I consider Empty to be the best plan against Grixis. If they have everything, they have everything. Two copies of Disfigure don't change that.
Agreed, Grixis is a fantastic matchup if you have Empty in your deck, and I wouldn't waste slots killing Deathrite. The only way they can beat you other than you just drawing a really unlucky hand is a good Probe/Therapy draw against a hand that is weak to Probe/Therapy. Both the PiFs and Empty are great in this matchup, and I don't like diluting the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander
I actually tested Disfigures at one point in 2013. They were not bad, but in the end they wasted valuable SB slots for me. I would consider playing them only if Shardless splashing white became the absolute #1 deck to beat.
Couple of more videos. I've been trying hard to get some "live" matches in, but it's just been impossible with my 4-week old son. With these already-played matches I can just leave the computer when he starts crying and clear it out in editing :smile:
But anyway, hope you enjoy:
https://youtu.be/qLL6EJUCzNs
https://youtu.be/KC-NVJcDFkI
Thanks for the vids! I think the prerecorded format is good, it shorter, the commentary is more thought through, but it's probably more timeconsuming for you with the rewatching/editing...Quote:
Originally Posted by nevilshute
btw. I also think it'd be worth to include losing vids (if have some ;) if those have some interesting scenarios in it
https://youtu.be/qLL6EJUCzNs?t=6m33s
I don't like this much, because you can get Wasted out of B and the best plan here is Duress into xyz ->IT PIF EtW anyway as it gives more tokens and is easily lethal drawing more mana/GP or some interaction for 20 gobbos or ToA itself, the Volc has some sense if you wanted to utilize the Therapy with EtW into kill, but that's a corner case scenario which expect heavier resistance and either a winmore or unlikely in the context... therefore I don't like the IT for DR in the combo turn .. it'd be interesting to figure out whether EtW or a PIF+cantrip lottery gives you more %
EDIT - assuming Opp is is like 55%spells at this point, so roughly - double bolt, BS, cantrip -> Bolt+flip next turn kill you, so I guess the EtW+BS line is like 25-35%, likely more with chances to cantrip - IT, or IT ftw.
run a quick simulation - assuming PIF line DR-IT-LED = 4U, B floating - Preordain, Ponder, BS
~win by EtW for 22+ discarding bolt - 13/20
win by ToA - 5/20
loss - 2/20
I'm a bit surprised, would guess in 70% range
https://youtu.be/qLL6EJUCzNs?t=23m37s
I think it's worth keeping, you have him dead if doesn't Fluster DR1 (he kind of screwed this G1) with ramp into TOA, IT->PIF/2nd ToA
ANT vs. ANT
I don't like Opponents play at all...
https://youtu.be/qLL6EJUCzNs?t=546
At this point, I think you have to name bolt. It makes them having to flip Delver this turn or die. If they don't, they are a turn too short.
Thanks a lot for watching and for the comments!
I never lose! In all seriousness though that's why I'd much rather record "live". I find my motivation for sitting down and doing commentary on a match I lost is somehow hard to summon. Unless there is some clear cut very interesting scenario. Having said that I have done it in the past and will do it again. But yeah, I hope to get to do more commentating during actual matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshthedark
Btw I didn't consider going over the top of that Flusterstorm (if he doesn't fluster the first DR) that's a really strong line that I think I would do if I was in that situation again.
Yeah I'm beginning to feel that way too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
We all do ;) but the good about losing is there is often something to learn... I understand, your winning motivation is still awesome, I'd struggle to do so. For me the vids are really interesting because you play similar lists to mine in a similar way, since Max ceased to stream I don't know any Storm dedicated content... As my Mtg fix I'm following 10-20 streams and sites and fish for Storm matches, all I get is 1/5 worth watching at best and have to go through stuff like P1 - T1 CoV 0, P2 - go for it T1 with LED... so it's a delight when you post something...Quote:
Originally Posted by nevilshute
I'm not sure about that, when I was watching the vid Bolt would be my instinct naming, but I was thinking about your choice and believe it's a good one in the context of what you were trying to do, did not pan out at this instance but Opp has to have some combination of Mongooses, Bolts, Goyfs, Brainstorms and Ponders in hand (less likely Forked bolt, Dismember), out of all those cards BS makes it the most likely for him to win (having you dead with Delvers while having chances to further disrupt you), is it less likely that he has it according to his plays? Maybe a little bit... if he has the Bolt any flip will do... hard to sayQuote:
Originally Posted by nevilshute
Main point for naming bolt was basically that one brainstorm had already passed. If he had Bs, there was a high change, I think, of him wanting to brainstorm in order to be able to force a spell rather than spell pierce it, meaning it'd have to be either ponder/bolt, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshthedark
What do u guys think about young pyro in sb? Thanks!
What do you mean, there is only a Ponder in the yard... but it would make more sense to let the Duress resolve rather than SP it if he had the BS, he already let a DR pass when he could have SPed (to bluff FoW, probably)Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
M1G1 interesting, I like it... btw. why keep 2ToA? and I guess you wanted to board the 2nd SDTQuote:
Originally Posted by nevilshute
M2G1 I love how he stops the Remora after you present the perfect Threshold manabase, the Jace play, just, well... G2 I'd have GPed because you can go and they play CS (maybe CB) or cast what you topdeck
thanks for 2 short bedtime stories... opponents do not seem to be very challenging on the single queue for easy dreaming =D
I don't like - Miracles usualy expect it, I don't see much use outside of that, also causes weird G3, suboptimal commitment of resources and it's hard to keep secret at smaller tournamentsQuote:
Originally Posted by fluuu
I kicked around the idea for a while, but I feel like it's slower than our other sb win-cons (Empty and/or AdN) and it can't keep pace with Mentor (FYI, someone tried Mentors not too long ago and it didn't go very well).Quote:
Originally Posted by fluuu
I liked the idea that it can start popping out dudes against Miracles or other matchups in which we're likely to get half our gas countered, but Miracles has plenty of fixes for it anyway and it doesn't hit as quickly as Empty.
Don't get me wrong: I love the card, but I don't think it's our best bet because we're not running much countermagic. Pyro really shines when he's got backup, and that's something we can't really afford to give.
Played some Legacy for the first time in over a month today (2 DP/1 EtW/1 SDT/6 Discard/1 Preordain main, nothing too fancy SB).
Round-1: 4c Delver 2-0 (As it goes..)
Round-2: Pox 2-0 (He didn't draw enough hate, so was fairly simple.)
Round-3: Sneak & Show 2-1 (Lost a game to Leyline without outs, hadn't seen it for a while. A pretty interesting scenario game-1: He emrakul'd my face, and then a few turns passed before I found another land. I had DR,CR,LED,IT,Duress or something and my ritual resolved (his mistake), he then pierced my Duress with FoW,Blank (another mistake, he played an unknown land rather than this one),Unknown in his hand. I opted to go for the kill rather than discarding his fow and giving him a topdeck for the win. Turned out to be correct; the unknown card was a petal.)
Round-4 & 5: ID's
QF: Reanimate 2-1 (I make tokens after he bins Iona g1. He destroys me g2. He bricks on a reanimation spell in 4 draws or so g3.)
SF: Dark Maverick 0-2 (Teeg destroys me, I should mulligan better against these kind of decks.)
Nice vids btw, Martin :).
Went 3-1 in last night's MTGO Daily and I have a thought about Burn based on a game from last night. We're in Game 3 and he has a Pillar in play. He suspends two Rift Bolt and passes. I do the math and the best I can do on my turn is Tendrils him down to 6 and then his Bolts come off suspend bringing him to 2, which puts him under a lock from his own pillar and I just kicked back and waited for my PiF>Tendrils for the win.
I run a 2nd Tendrils in my SB for Miracles, but I wonder if it'd be an option vs Burn, too. Mini tendrils and then let them get locked by their own Eidolon/Pillar. I have to admit, I was extremely satisfied at how he died lol. I'm not a fan of Burn.
For those interested, I ran 1 Ad Nauseam/1 PiF/1 Tendrils/ 1 Grim Tutor (testing a lot w this trying to make a decision vs DP) I also run Rain of Filth. 15 Lands. I will say I did have a game where if Grim was DP I couldn't have gone...
W vs Burn
W vs D&T (thank you Turn 1 Ad Nauseam win and T2 12 Goblins)
W vs Aggro Loam
L vs Hex Depths (I played like a clown this round)
Relatively new storm player here. Looking to start playing them at the SCGs in the northeast. I have been fine as far as seeing the lines, and playing around disruption thus far. My real issue is with sideboarding (I apologize I know this is a common question) and I am working through my matchups with my testing group. In general, since this is such a lean combo deck how many cards are you guys looking to board in most matchups? I'd guess around 5 not counting the tropical island? Are there any matchups where you bring in more, if so what are they? Trying to finalize my board plans going into SCG Philly
My approach is to never look at it as "how many cards do I generally board in," but rather, what can I replace in my maindeck without sacrificing the consistency of the combo while also adding enough answers to my opponent's likely post-SB answers? For me the maindeck flex slots include my 7 discard, my 2nd maindeck Past in Flames, sometimes the maindeck Empty the Warrens, and the second basic Island. If you run Preordains I think those are options as well, but I don't run any Preordains. Some people board out Lotus Petals, but I haven't found any matchups where I want to board out a Petal (my personal preference).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattincognito
To give you random examples from my SBing plan:
Death and Taxes:
+2 Massacre, +3 Chain of Vapor, +2 Thoughtseize, +1 Inquisition of Kozilek
-4 Duress, -3 Cabal Therapy, -1 Past in Flames (the 2nd in my maindeck)
RUG Delver:
+1 Inquisition of Kozilek (8th discard spell)
-1 Past in Flames (the 2nd in my maindeck)
Note that I run 6 tutors, Empty the Warrens maindeck, and no Ad Nauseam.
Also note that in one of these matchups I am boarding in 8 cards, and in the other I am boarding in only 1. Generally you will find that you need to board in more cards against decks with permanent-based hate and fewer cards against tempo decks relying heavily on countermagic. Do not be tempted to feel like you need to always board in a certain number of cards against decks, and I recommend you leave your Tropical Islands and green cards in the SB against tempo decks with Wasteland.
Good luck learning this sweet deck, and welcome to one of the most fun archetype communities on The Source!
Just curious about you boarding out the 2nd PiF vs RUG delver? It remains incredibly strong against them and they have a very limited amount of ways to fight the yard (usually 1-2 cards after board)Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7
PiF is certainly one of the 2 best strategies against RUG Delver (along with a quick Empty), but I board out the 2nd copy of PiF because I don't find a need to naturally draw it post-SB when I'm not facing the threat of discard. RUG Delver is such a good matchup that I would rather go the conservative route of increasing discard and decreasing the chance I might lose to something annoying like a Grafdigger's Cage. I wouldn't fault anyone for leaving it in, but it's the most conservative cut in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by nevilshute
@Beardtron - yes I'd always recommend additional ToA. it lowers the life threshold you can kill them with Pillar on the table, also if they scenarios like yours where you can get a lot of time or lock them into multi fireblasting you
also curious about your list/sb, I recall you sported 2gt lists and additional sb discard, I wondering whats your starting point nowQuote:
Originally Posted by nevilshute
This is my current list:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshthedark
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Infernal Tutor
2 Grim Tutor
2 Past in Flames
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Bloodstained Mire
SB
1 Tropical Island
3 Xantid Swarm
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Massacre
3 Chain of Vapor
2 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
What is everyone's thoughts on 2x Dark Petitions? Is it strictly better than one, or is it meta specific?
I know that Patrunkenphat7 and friends have worked out that going from 5 to 6 tutors ups your percentages of finding a tutor by turn 2 significantly. I don't know the math behind this and subsequently can't verify it but that's that.
I would say that running 2 petitions should in theory severely hamper your Ad Nauseam if you are running that in the main deck. And were it not for Caleb Scherer's continuous results with 2x DP, 1 AN lists I would be staunch in that stance.
I'm currently trying out a 1/1 split of Dark Petition / Grim Tutor in order to try the 6-tutor plan but I'm running Ad Nauseam in the sideboard. I like Grim Tutor in builds where you're running main deck Empty the Warrens. If I owned 2 Grim Tutors I'd probably try out 2 Grims, but I only own one and I think Dark Petition is quite excellent too so I'm happy with this split.
I still haven't made up my mind about Dark Petition. But I have to say that I generally seem to value Tutor effects lower than most other players; in my eyes they are the worst actual business spells in the deck. That being said, it is likely correct that you want 6 rather than 5 if your goal is to have one on turn two. Friends of mine did similar math regarding the number of Noble Hierarchs / Deathrite Shamans in Modern Zoo back in the day and came to the conclusion that seven copies maximised your chances of drawing exactly one in your opening hand.
It is also worth noting that the impact of additional high CMC cards on your Ad Nauseams is usually exaggerated. I did a lot of goldfishing on this last year (>100 attempts per configuration) and came to the conclusion that a 2 Ad Nauseam 1 Past in Flames 1 Tendrils 1 Chrome Mox list has better Ad Nauseams than a list that has additional cantrips in place of the second Ad Nauseam and the Mox, despite the fact that the first setup has a literal dead 5 CMC card in the deck.
If you want to improve your Ad Nauseams, you should tweak the amount of non-land initial mana sources in your deck. To be fair though, going to great lengths to improve your Ad Nauseams is rarely worth it, as that's only the case in very specific metagames in which you probably shouldn't even be playing Storm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander
Hey Jonathan. In what storm-hostile meta is an Ad Nauseam centric list preferable in your opinion? What are the characteristics of such a meta? :smile:
Metagames with lots of Reanimator, MUD, 12 Post; decks like that. If there is a huge amount of decks that can lock you of a game, you want to be fast. Also, most importantly, Storm. The storm mirror is miserable and I'd rather play almost any other real deck against Storm. I also think it's preferred against Infect. I used to think it was the best plan against BUG decks as well, but I'd much rather have Empties against Team America.
There are also several decks where it's undoubtedly better to have access to early Ad Nauseams, but the difference is negligible in preboard games.
Dear Stormriders.
Please tell me how do you sb vs Infect? This deck has so many different hatecards like stifle, spell pierce, fow, crop+bojuka, cage, fluster, may be rip and leyline.
Do we need flusters vs cards like envigorate/berserk? I think yes.
Do we need more than 2 decays? I think no.
Do we need need kgrip vs nexuses, leylines, cages, rips? I think no except situations where opp leads or leyline.
Do we have to sbout tops as a slow card?
Do we need to sbin xantid swarm? I think it is slow vs infect so no.
Am i correct?
I find that the matchup is actually quite easy. Their deck sometimes nut draws you, but most of the time, discard allows you to disrupt their combo until you kill them or take their disruption and again kill them. They just rarely have hands that are redundant disruption + combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by OlegtheSuper
No KGrip, Decay, none of that shit. If they have hatebears, then maybe a Chain or two is fine, but just try to go faster.
My plan is -1 PiF (2 main), -1 Top (1 main), and board in Xantid Swarms. Flusterstorm is ok, but not at the expense of going slower.
This, precisely this. I've never seen the sense in bringing in removal against Infect and it feels like a fine match up. Their nut draw kills you on turn 2 with force/daze backup. If they have that then it's likely GG. Unless we have our nut draw which kills them on turn 1 through duress/therapy.Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmutant
Other than that it's a classic combo-with-counters vs combo-with-discard. Do you bring in shit like krosan grip and Pithing needle vs sneaky show? No.
Like Phazonmutant mentions Xantid Swarm is fine tech against them but I won't board in much else (running Ad Nauseam in the sideboard, that comes in too)
nevilshute, phazonmutant, thank you very much!
I agree with what these guys are saying and think it touches on a general point to be careful about not over-SBing with Storm. On SCG coverage I often see Decays and Chains against Delver decks and the like, and that strategy makes the deck incredibly inconsistent post-SB. Infect specifically is a great matchup if you utilize your Xantid Swarms and stick with the core gameplan. Don't be tilted if you lose to their god draws every now and then because that happens. In a lot of ways it's like the Sneak and Show matchup but with more temptations for boarding in questionable SB cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by OlegtheSuper
I tend to board in a couple of Decays / Chains against Infect, but that is mostly due to the fact that I don't often have Swarms in my sideboard and you want to be Ad Nauseam Tendrils against them, which is a 58 card deck. Xantid Swarms are preferable though and you should definitely board them in if you have them, as you should against every other Force of Will combo deck; they really shine in these matchups.
I'm a pretty big fan of Chain of Vapor. It's probably the card I side in against the most decks because it's so versatile. Also, it can enable threshold and up storm count at the same time by targeting our own mana artifacts. I even thought about maindecking a copy because Preordain and (sometimes) Duress haven't done me a whole lot of good and I often side them out.
I've not had a lot of success with Xantid, but I have a feeling that's mostly because I've only got one, so it doesn't show up very often. It did win me a game once by baiting countermagic and upping the storm count.
I've been trying to cut back on green sideboard cards because of the threat of Wasteland. Currently not running either Xantid or Carpet, but I may throw in singletons. Anybody else been playing without either one? What are people running to replace them in the 'board?
Why are you cutting green cards that you don't want against decks with Wasteland because of Wasteland?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce
In before: "Xantid Swarm is good against Delver/Tempo"Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander
**Gets on Soapbox**
This may come off as preachy but I think it can still be a good post for some folks, especially "newer" players to Storm. I've been playing Storm for 9 months and I recently bought the deck on MTGO as well. I was playing a Daily last night and ran into a TES matchup in which I won 2-0. I was basically called a lucksack by the opponent and I wanted to riff on this and how instead of blaming others to take a step back and try to learn and improve our game.
Now, first of all, the Storm mirror can be a major coin flip. A lot of it boils down to who draws better/who is faster. Fortunately for us, TES dropping 10-12 goblins T2 doesn't matter as it gives us two more turns to go off. Now, in this particular matchup I think my opponent was unwise with their discard decisions (multiple times) and ultimately it cost him the match. For example, G2 he blind therapies and names Duress Turn 1, I have two Cabal Therapy in my hand--whoops (I still think naming Tutor or LED is better than naming discard in the dark). So of course he blames me for his miss. This type of stuff happens--we've been there. I think he made a couple other mistakes as well but I won't get into them. Fact of the matter is I've been there, too. The attitude of "Oh man, what a lucky piece of garbage..." Sometimes we just can't help it if an opponent rips Chalice of the top after we Probe them. It happens. It's Magic.
Too often we believe we are always making the correct play and if anything goes wrong--it must be that we are so unlucky or that our opponent is just lucky. When really, there are likely a couple moments, if not more, during a match where a better decision needed to be made and we paid the price for it.
I goldfish this deck a lot on my own, against various decks I've proxied so I can learn more about the deck and to understand certain lines of play. MTGO has certainly provided me even more of a solid testing ground--even in the tournie practice room. I am learning a ton and I am starting to notice my blunders with more clarity now--which is great, because that means there is a learning process going on.
I suppose the short winded point of this post would be for all of us, especially those of us still new to this deck, to take a deep breath and realize that this deck can be difficult to play and it takes a lot of practice and patience to start getting good results. Try not to blame your opponent for every loss--try and think about if a different choice or line would've improved your chances.
We're not immune to mistakes--it's a matter of limiting them. And that's in our control.
Keep stormin'!
Great points, BeardTron. Getting frustrated at your opponent and variance can blind yourself from becoming better with Storm. I know some people will disagree with this, but I think the outcome of the Storm "mirror" (ANT/TES) is MUCH more in your control than people give it credit for. Sure, there are a few variance subgames that can destroy you like turn 1 hand, Probe/Therapy 3 of your cards, etc, but overall your list and in-game decisions matter a ton. I am happy to play the Storm mirror online and in tournaments.
Totally agreed. I hear a lot of people on this board say they hate the storm mirror. I get that the first couple of turns are extremely draw dependent, but if neither person has an unbelievable draw, the discard and sequencing matters a ton. Also postboard when most decks have things like Surgical and Flusterstorm, there are ways to interact turn 0/1, so the player better able to evaluate how cautiously to play and when to seize the initiative generally wins. If it were just a coin-flip, then I wouldn't be 80%+ in the mirror over dozens of matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7