Congrats. What list did you top 8 with?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludwitch
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Congrats. What list did you top 8 with?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludwitch
I personally run 19 lands, so of course I think that 20 are enough. I do however only run 3/3 split of wastes and mutavaults. I think with most of our curve at 2 and vials we can safely run 19-21 lands as long as enough of them are islands. I really like echoing truth in the main as it has saved me many times in the past. Also I don't know about running 4 coralhelms. That seems a bit much on the leveler. I think 3 is the right number.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludwitch
So I am interested...
You guys usually side out Standstill against Zoo (and goblins?), right? It is nuts against blue and lackluster against aggro from what I have seen. So with all the shift we are expecting, is Standstill too slow now?
I would side out Force against Zoo before I would side out Standstill. My hope against zoo is to contain them early game and then win when they run out of cards. I might take out Standstill if I had enough to side in, though.
I'm currently testing Pithing Needle in the Sideboard of my list and I have to say it's been working well so far. The opportunity to turn off Engineered Explosives, Jace 2, Umezawa's Jitte, Grim Lavamancer, fetchlands, Maze of Ith, Pernicious Deed, Rishadan Port, Sensei's Divining Top, Cephalid Colisseum etc. etc. with one little sharp silver bullet is pretty good, especially since I run a splash list with no room for utility stuff like Stifle.
@purg- I agree with you. I was running stifle before starting to run UW because of the amount of zoo/goblins
4 Curcecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
3 Coralhelm Commander
4 Merrow Reejerey
2 Kira, Great Glass Spinner
4 Force
4 Daze
4 Vial
4 Swords
2 Jittes
4 Flooded
3 Misty
3 Tundra
3 Island
1 Plains
4 vaults
3 wastes
4 perimeter captain
2 Threads
2 Pithing
3 Meddling Mage
2 Tormods
2 Relics
perimeters are nuts against zoo/goblins.
With the banning of Mystical Tutor, this means that more Zoo players are going to pop up. How is this deck going to handle the increase in Zoo decks?
If your meta is full of zoo, this is the wrong deck to play.
Play the UW version and run some of the following wherever possible:Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
Swords to Plowshares
Path to Exile
Stand // Deliver
Consign to Dream
Propaganda
Back to Basics
Sejiri Merfolk
Standstill
etc.
imo, if you wanna play in a Zoo meta, run Ghostly Prison over Propaganda when you splash. Not being able to REB it is bad for the Zoo player.
It can still get Pridemage'd though :(
Did anyone see this BU list from another thread?
Just thought it was interesting, looks really off-beat (Selkie? Extirpate?) but I guess he must have done something right. (Then again, maybe not, since he lost to combo in the finals.)Quote:
2nd - Matt Langford
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
3 Island
1 Swamp
4 Mutavault
3 Wasteland
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Rejerey
2 Merfolk Soveirgn
2 Wake Thrasher
2 Cold-Eyed Selkie
4 Aether Vial
3 Standstill
3 Smother
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Umezawa's Jitte
----------------------------------------
Sideboard:
2 Blue Elemental
2 Extirpate
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Spell Pierce
2 Kira, Great-Glass Spinner
2 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Pithing Needle
2 Perish
PS: I just realized why we lose so much to Zoo, it's cat tribal vs. fish tribal, the cats are naturally going to win.
Could you explain me please how you want to contain zoo in the early game without having FoW?Quote:
Originally Posted by cdr
(Say nothing about the fact that waiting for a deck containg sylvan libraries to run out of cards doesn't look like a good strategy to me ;) )
First maybe the decklist, before showing my sideplan for this MU:
So against Zoo i changed it always that way:Quote:
Main(61):
12x Island
4x Mutavault
4x Wasteland
4x Cursecatcher
4x Silvergill Adept
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Merrow Reejerey
2x Merfolk Sovereign
2x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
2x Spell Snare
4x Standstill
3x Stifle
4x AEther Vial
Side (15):
3x Submerge
2x Llawan, Cephalid Empress
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Ravenous Trap
2x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Threads of Disloyalty
IN: 2x Jitte, 2x Relic, 3x Submerge, 1x Threads
OUT: 2x Stifle, 3x Standstill, 3x Daze on play, 1x Stifle, 3x Standstill, 4x Daze on draw. And I found it working well ;)
(but it's important to remember that sideboard isn't all, as spell snares and kiras in mainboard are amazing in this MU)
I don't think so. I haven't tested yet the 16-lords version, but I suppose it to handle better with zoo than the old stifle+standstill one, with which (posted above) I did, however, 2-0-1 against Zoos in Madrid, with unluckily tied game as I left my opp having just 2 or 3 life points after 5th turn of termination, with pretty significant advantage on my side of the table. So if 'almost 3-0' is possible with the old version, the new one should easily cope in this MU.Quote:
Originally Posted by cdr
To be honest, I haven't played much since GP Madrid, so the list I posted may be bit out of date, but if it worked well against zoo back then, why wouldn't it now? ;)
I'm glad you are having success against Zoo with a mono U version but it seems to me that the deck definitely needs some removal. With that in mind, I've been working on a UW version that I hope will have success in the new meta, whatever that may be. I certainly don't have an optimal build, just throwing around ideas of what I should be testing. Here's my current list:
3 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
3 Merfolk Sovereign
4 Aether Vial
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Daze
2 Stand / Deliver
4 Force of Will
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
8 Island
1 Plains
Any input? Sideboard thoughts?
Vs Zoo why do you side-in Jitte when Zoo packs a ton of removals? Jitte's like begging for a creature at that stage. Somebody please explain to me the LOGIC? And I also see that people are now taking away Standstill MD, with Zoo running rampant I think that's a good choice.
So Alex B came 2nd in the SCG Open with this list. I believe is card for card the same as the BoM IV winner -> 22 land (1 Mishra), no Standstill, 2 Kira MD, 4 Coral etc. Not sure about the Snow-Covered Islands tho? Another top 8 (2/41) here kept the 22 land but swapped the factory for a 14th Island. Anyone got opinions on which is better (Factory vs. 14th island)?
Anyways congrats to him on his finish, especially in the face of all the Zoo/Goblins that were no doubt present!
If you play Kira those tons of removal aren't so scary, if you stay with equipped guy as you play the spirit your in a great position. But it isn't the only way Jitte is useful in this MU of course:Quote:
Originally Posted by DCTopTeam
-Opp will probably side in his own Jittes. And guess what is the best answer for the opponent's jitte merfolk have?
-it's one of the best topdecks if you both are in the topdecking mode, with noone having advantage on the table (what is really often in games 2-3 with your Submerges and grave hate)
-if you leave some stifles in the deck there's always a chance to provoke qasali to commit a suicide ;)
-it requires only one swing to pump your guys enough to resist any of his burns, so it's better to have lord that can be only sworded/pathed, than the one that can be helixed, bolted and chained as well.
Actually, lot of my games against zoo looked like opp having 0/1 goyfs, 2/2 knights or amazing 1/1 lavamancers with both graveyards empty, while I had already few lords gone, buying time with mutavault for example, and we both stayed with empty hand waiting for something to turn our guys bigger than the other one's. In that case I definitely prefer to draw jitte than daze, standstil, fow or other stifle...
@DCTopTeam, I side in Jitte against Zoo for game two almost always (when I have it) the main reason being as a disenchant. Yes, it is hard to connect with it, but if they get one going you are dead. And you can bet that more Zoo decks will be packing them in the future.
jitte seems too slow against zoo especially with quasali and their own jittes around.
I went to the Knightware tournament in L.A. yesterday Sunday and ended up 1st out of 51 with mono-blue Merfolk. I played the list without Standstills. Before the tournament my friend and I noticed it was a huge Zoo meta and yep I decided to play Merfolk.
My record was 7-0-2
Rd 1: Reanimator went 2-1
Rd 2: Zoo went 2-0
Rd 3: Zoo went 2-0
Rd 4: Zoo went 2-0
Rd 5: draw
Rd 6: draw
- Top 8 consisted of me with merfolk, reanimator, zoo, zoo, dredge, ant, UBR fairies, and eva green
Quarter-finals: Dredge 2-1
Semi-finals: Ant 2-1
Finals: Reanimator he dropped to me and we split the prizes
The new Coralhelm Commander is amazing, it won me so many games, especially against Zoo. I didn't lose a single game against Zoo and it wasn't a fluke since I went against 3.* All Zoo games my opponent came out blistering fast with good hands but I played the matchup different, I didn't try to stall and out-attrition my opponent, instead I was really aggressive. I can't say enough about Kira that hasn't been said already, she's amazing.
I had one maindeck jitte and one sideboard jitte, if I had to do it again they would both be out. They were too slow, I'd cast it, waste mana equiping just to have the creature removed or against Zoo they have enough creature removal and pridemages.
mind posting your list? i am contemplating either merfolk or aggro elves for post ban legacy, but i was curould about your list because you stated that zoo was fairly easy for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by PanderAlexander
2-0 against 3 Zoo in a row? Give me some of your magic Merfolk juice!
I was going to go to this tournament, but unfortunately, I didn't. Great to hear that the no Standstill list is doing well, since that's the build I've come to play nowadays. And of course, congratulations to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by PanderAlexander
I'm still feeling pretty reluctant to take out Echoing Truth, just because I like some kind of answer to cards that couldn't be countered and are already on the field. Am I just being weird on this one?
You played really well but you should have lost to the ANT player dude. He had 7 mana to play around the 2 cursecatchers and FoW in game 2. He played his Chrome Mox imprinting the Pact and he had another Pact and AdN in hand. He just freaked out and gave up for whatever reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by PanderAlexander
I went 2nd at Shuffle and Cut on Saturday. Only 16 people or so. I tried running Fade Away in my SB against Elves or Goblins--neither of which showed up at the tournament. I don't recommend the stradegy after rereading the card like 5 times and seeing the words "permanent" instead of "creature" at the end of the sentence. I only lost to Bant Aggro--he went "Kor Mystic into Sword of Fire and Ice" all 4 games (I played him once during tournament and again in the last match for first). What's the best stradegy against these decks? I think I just need to run Submerge and Threads, although I've been avoiding the cards for some unknown reason.
WU tempo and BANT-aggro will always be a thorn in my side..but Coralhelm was amazing and I'm definately running 4 now.
Lovely, does anyone still consider any W or G splashes to improve their results against Zoo? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by PanderAlexander
Well, like people above me, I'm curious about your list - why don't you post it?
I punted the first game bad to him, I didn't double daze before cabal ritual, Matt(Forbiddan) pointed it out to me I got pissed at myself that my first error was so simple and at such a crucial point in the tournament.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
For those asking, my decklist is nothing special, I'll post it but it's the exact list from Bazaar of Moxen but with Mishra replaced with Jitte. My sideboard was completely metagamed for Zoo but I honestly only saw the SB cards twice total in all three Zoo matches.
My success against Zoo was more psychological than deck strategy. I had been playing Texas Hold'em a lot before the tournament so that poker mentality dragged over. Our decks have daze and wasteland, whether we have it in our hand or not we make our opponents play the way we want, to play around those. Even the non-Zoo games in Top8 were some mind-games.Quote:
Originally Posted by dyzzy
For example in the quarter-finals match against dredge, we were on the third game and my opponent cabal therapied me, after giving my hand back and ending his turn he wanted to know what coralhelm commander did. I gave the card to him and told him that guy is a beast that it won me games against Zoo. When I went to level the commander I had 4 mana free to level him, I didn't just tap all 4 lands at once, I tapped each giving him a chance to respond (which dredge doesn't have any) so I can really put an emphasis him. I attacked with the commander and killed his only flying blocker, a narcomoeba, he was at 1 life and I was at 11 life. I had no blockers and he had perfect lethal with 4 zombie tokens and one ichorid, it didn't look good as I had one out left only, and that was if he punted the game to me by not attacking, which wasn't likely. When it was his turn he could only stare scared at the big flying merfolk, he stuck his hand out for a shake, I was totally confused because he didn't attack, I shook his hand and asked what's up, he says he concedes, I gave him another chance though and asked "are you really conceding?" he says ya he has no way of dealing with the commander, so I shuffle all my cards together and everyone including me tells him he had lethal on me, he asked the judge but is told he already conceded. That was the difference between two underground seas or two scrublands.
Here is my list, but I forgot what my sideboard was since I created it right before the tournament, it should be posted at: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?17783-[Tournament]-June-27-2010-Los-Angeles-CA-Knight-Ware-Inc-20x-Duals
4 Aether Vial
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Cursecatcher
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merfolk Sovereign
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Jitte
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
I dont run any equipments in Zoo because its just slow. Real slow. I mean, early on you invest 2 to pay it and 2 to equip. You can invest that mana to cast another or two one drop, or another one drop and spot-remove something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Its kinda easy for Merfolk because it has Vials.
Hi!
I am new writing in the forum but some time ago that I read it. In last two weekends, I have played the deck doing one top4 in the LCL and one top8 in a shop tournament.
The decklist that i've played is the following one:
13 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Merfolk Sovereign
4 Coralhelm Commander
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 AEther Vial
1 Rushing River
Sideboard:
3 Mind Harness
1 Threads of Disloyalty
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
1 Echoing Truth
3 Spell Pierce
My record in LCL was 5-2-1
Rd 1: UW Fish 2-0
Rd 2: Reanimator 2-1
Rd 3: Supreme blue(teammate, ID) 2-0(we've played for fun)
Rd 4: Mystic Bant 2-0
Rd 5: UGR Control 0-2
Rd 6: UGB control(confidants, jace, consuming vapors, trygons, very nice deck) 2-0
Top8: UGR control 2-1(the same as rd 4)
Top4: UGB Landstill 1-2
The deck is amazing, for this reason i've played in the next saturday tournament. The list was the same except for -1 mind harness +1 seasinger. I want to test this merfolk in sb against reanimator, and in the shop are always 1 o 2, for this reason i put in sb.
My record was 4-2:
Rd 1: New Horizons 2-0
Rd 2: Merfolks 2-1
Rd 3: Mystic Bant 1-2
Rd 4: UGR tempo with terravores 2-0
Rd 5: Reanimator 2-1
Top8: Mystic Bant 1-2
After playing the deck in 2 tournaments and made 2 tops, I have decided to play it in a very big tournament this Saturday. What has not just convinced me is the Rushing river. I have thought about other things as Wipe away, cold-eyed selkie or a threads of disloyalty, because I don't like the mishra's factory of the original list.
Any suggestions?
KraM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KraM7
- 1 Merfolk Sovereign (or Commander) and -1 Rushing River
+2 Wake Thrashers for more aggro
-or-
+2 Jitte for aggro/control
-or-
+2 Echoing Truth (or Wipe Away, B2B, Propaganda) for control
Scroll Thief :2::u:
Creature - Merfolk Rogue
Whenever Scroll Thief deals combat damage to a player, draw a card.
1/3
Maybe I'm just a little tired of hearing about Cold-Eyed Selkie, but this guy honestly seems strictly-better to me. No double-blue requirement and a fatter ass beats potentially maybe drawing more cards in my book. Oh, and islandwalk. Which is semi-redundant in this deck anyways. I'm not so sure he's actually gonna make it into my 75 any time soon, but I'm glad there's finally a good alternative for people who want an "Ophidian" creature in their Merf deck.
They are the same if there is no Lord out. Both die to Bolt (Zoo is really popular I hear ;) ) With a Lord out, the Bolt always hits the Lord from my experience. With a Lord that lives, Selkie wins.
Double blue is required of Lord of Atlantis and Sovereign and Coralhelm. So I don't see the problem. Maybe as a super budget option? Or if you wanted to play a draw heavy Merfolk deck.
The point of playing Merfolk is to stomp your blue (Counterbalance) matchups. Cold-Eyed Selkie does that, and in spades. Additional Islandwalk is in fact good, and the ability to draw multiple cards with Selkie from the lord pumps makes it a much better card drawing Merfolk.
The only other matchups where you want card drawing would be against non blue control decks, where the difference between Scroll Thief and Cold Eyed Selkie is mostly irrelevant anyway.
This seems to make sense, I guess I was a little premature to call it better. The main thing I was trying to harp on (yet again), is that Selkie is pretty much unnecessary in this deck, because it only serves to shore up match-ups which are already favorable for us. I'd much rather run Wake Thrasher to help with the aggro match-ups which are actually problematic for us, rather than have yet another card in my deck that beats Counter/Top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanni
Just for the record, I wasn't making a case for why I think Cold-Eyed Selkie should be run in the maindeck, I was simply elaborating on what matchups Scroll Thief would be good in, and how Selkie is better in those matchups.
Cold-Eyed Selkie is a great sideboard card against CounterTop and control decks like Landstill, though. I wouldn't play Merfolk unless I expected a big portion of the field to be composed of matchups like that, and Selkie would most definitely be in my sideboard in that case.
My friend and I were testing the 16 lord build vs. Zoo and it still gets stomped hard. :frown:
Then again, we only played 3 or 4 games (lack of time) without sideboards, so I don't know if those results are trustworthy.
I've been running the 16 lord list for a little while now and in sanctioned tournaments I'm 0/6 against Zoo. Those are full matches. Not games. Maybe I'm just terrible though. I've only won matches where they had to aggressively mull for land or something. When I lose it's always a blowout. They make 3/3 dudes for 1 mana. I make 2/2 dudes for 3 mana. Also, Steppe Lynx is for jerks.
The white splash still helps against Zoo. Just don't try to get too cute with it.
hi everyone, i'd like to know how do you face, running MonoU version, decks like UW tempo, UWB Thopter Tempo, and the mostly feared (by me at least) Death and taxes, both in his MonoW or GW version. A friend of mine plays MonoW D&T and we tested a lot, it seems almost unbeatable for us. And i cant remember of a single sideboard card that can affect his gameplay against us (except maybe for back to basics, or stifles, but who's gonna waste 3-4 slots for 1 MU, seriously?)
I regularly reach top8 with my MonoU version -shown below-, but i simply scoop if i face this kind of deck in top8. I've been playing merfolk for quite a lot and this is the only MU that just feels really unwinnable to me.
12 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
3 Merfolk Sovereign
3 Coralhelm Commander
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 AEther Vial
3 Standstill
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Side:
1 Energy flux (great ice breaker with unknown players, have fun)
3 Mind Harness
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Submerge
3 Relic of progenitus
2 Waterfront bouncer (i'm really surprised no one plays em, they win games alone, against stiflenought, Dark Depths, Stalkers, fatties with counters on them...)
any help is welcome!
I really don't like Jitte in Merfolk. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned or still a bit rusty (I'm only just getting back into Magic). Kira and Jitte have terrible synergy... not to mention that it's a mana/tempo dump. I LOVE Kira, though I've not done much testing with her. She gives our critters so much protection from bolts and swords. If only she could help against Firespout :(
Are you really liking the landstill part of your deck?
I guess with combo slowing down, we might not need to run Spell Pierce main.
Pull the jitte and the standstills for some spell pierce and echoing truth. It helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiblast