So, what will we do with the 4 open slots now that Mental misstep got the hammer?
Seems that my build can actually do Counter/Top, but I don't think that the versions discussed here can have it.
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So, what will we do with the 4 open slots now that Mental misstep got the hammer?
Seems that my build can actually do Counter/Top, but I don't think that the versions discussed here can have it.
I would play these 75 at the moment _ post banning of mental misstep and with random metagame:
4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
2 marsh flats
2 plains
1 swamp
1 tundra
1 underground sea
9 island
4 wall of omens
3 jace, the mind sculptor
2 sphinx of jwar isle
1 vendilion clique
4 brainstorm
4 fow
4 counterspell
3 spell snare
4 Swords to plowshares
3 engineered explosives
3 vedalken shackles
3 relic of progenitus
sideboard
4 perimeter captain
4 meddling mage
3 back to basics
3 perish
1 take posession
explanation:
no slow cards. cards that "do somethink and make you draw a card". so very few situational cards. better topdeck.
- Swords to plowshares > mental misstep
- engineered explosives > powder keg / ratchet bomb (vs vial deck I would start with e.e. @ 1 on the play turn 0)
- manabase do not make vedalken shackles weeker considerably and we can play E.E. even at 3. and we can still play back to basics (just 2 non basics)
- relic of progenitus maindeck for some reasons : a) I espect less stonforge mystic around and much more green creatures (and so you can block with wall of omens or take them with shackles easily) b) more dredge c) it cicle itself so it is not a dead card in your deck.
- wall of omens: it cicle himself, blocks fast creatures, good vs aggro, good in combination with relic & perimeter captain (I espect more goblins, more merfolks, more zoo, some GW aggro).
- I prefere 3 spell snare + 1 vendilion clique. for those who want 4 spell snare, take vendilion out.
- no back to basics mainboard because I espect a lot of merfolks, gobs , some spiral tide and GW aggro
- meddling mage in the side because he is a real bomb and good for undefined metagame post B/R
- perish no need to explain
- open slots: 1X take posession very funny card in mirror control matchs _example take opponent jace just the turn before ultimate ability. they cannot even krosan grip it or bolt it because you don't give them priority.
This list is ment to face the following metagame:
aggro decks (merfolk, gobs, zoo, gw maverik, aggro loam, dredge)
control deck running lots of nonbasics lands and killing you via jace
bant & new horizon
random combo
tempo decks
This deck is still MUC because IT WORKS as MUC (even the classic versions) even if it has 3 non-island lands and 4 StP and 4 Wall of omens.
(For complainins check original MUC topic and check deckslists on TC Decks.)
my 2 cents. what you think guys ?
Seems the deck sucks. Again.
I don't really think we can compete without the ability to answer their T1 play (be it Nacatl, Vial, etc) consistently enough. Nevertheless, I'll try other things (I don't think countertop is the way to go).
I surely enjoyed the deck 15 minutes though...
Actually also opponents used to have mental misstep. So I don't think it's a big deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Treefolk Master
Unswer cc1 spells with Swords to plowshares and engineered explosives. :wink:
they don't even get counter by opponent MM anymore :eek:
of course you could have started a MM fight. But 1X1 >>> 2X2 for a control deck. Isn't it ?!
-Looks like this deck is going to be dead like Landstill was.Quote:
Originally Posted by serendib
Landstill had and will have a different problem: landstill draws cards with standstill.
if there are a lot of vial decks, standstill is difficult to drop. without MM standstill is more difficult to drop.
and often landstill has to side out standstill in g2 (which is the only card that gives him card advantage)
well, i guess i'm dusting off my force spikes.
The deck was finely polished, and situated in a very convenient spot with mental misstep. I don't think people saw what a power house this deck truly was. Unfortunately, all of the control decks with messy mana bases that MUC preys on will disappear and this predator will enter into a state of hibernation once more.
I was tearing up my local metagame week after week and I was looking forward to taking the deck to INDY. It was fun while it lasted, big blue. Hopefully Aaron and friends will give us a new toy in the future, or unban mental misstep : /
I guess we'll get back to work.
I think the mental misstep ban is hard for us, need to test other stuff, but now its hard against vial or nacatl turn 1 :(
Sure it sucks we lose Mental Misstep.Quote:
Originally Posted by vogel
But the chances of countering something when you're on the draw were 42.1% (chance you have 1 relevant counter in your starting 7).
Without misstep, it will be 33.6% (FoW is the only relevant one left now).
So I don't think it's that big of a deal.
Remember your opponents don't have Misstep either.
On the play, you have a lot of more options of course, depending on your counter suite.
Nevertheless, I have to agree this deck would've been very good right now, but the meta will probably change, maybe into some more aggro and combo.
Time to adjust this deck and kick some ass :)
where are the kronenberger buddies? we need a new decklist :D
i've been testing a new list on cockatrice (in the wake of mental misstep), and i'm bringing it (minus the few cards i don't have yet) to my weekly legacy event tonight.
here's what i'm bringing:
3 energy field
3 back to basics
3 sower of temptation
3 vedalken shackles
3 jace, the mind scultpor
2 sensei's divining top
2 powder keg
2 oblivion stone
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
4 counterspell
1 spell snare
4 force spike
3 scalding tarn
3 misty rainforest
16 island
SB:
1 back to basics
2 pithing needle
3 propaganda
3 relic of progenitus
3 hydroblast
3 chalice of the void
the list i've been playing on cockatrice has -1 sower, -1 shackles, +2 clique, -1 spell snare, +1 island.
i've been beating goblins/sligh/boros decks, though they are hard fought games, especially game one, but fast aggro hasn't really been a huge problem for me, even without mm. i think the 2/2 split of keg/ostone is really strong.
force spike is a lot stronger than people really give it credit. it's MM on the play, and it can really surprise people mid/late game. most opponents won't tap out once they see i'm running force spikes, and i think there's a lot to be said for an opponent slowing his tempo in fear of tapping out.
I have been using a chalice of the void in the main deck for the past couple of days. It does a lot better vs zoo and combo, but vs the mid range decks it actually sucks vs them. I have been using chrome mox to get chalice for one on turn one it it has pretty good even though it does conflict with fow some times. The banning of MM really hurt blue decks which really blows but we need to keep brainstorming. Anyone thinks a chalice of the void version could be good? I am still undecided but wanted to see what other people thought.
chalice can be really strong, yeah. i think a chalice build would really need to be one drop-less though, maybe four brainstorms, tops. i'd be a little concerned about lists ending up like faerie stompy too...
Has anyone tried Isochron Scepter in MUC?
Not recently. It sounds fun but I found it to be too much of a commitment and quite vulnerable. Counterbalance seems better than x on a stick.Quote:
Originally Posted by goblinroughtider
I have been testing with this list:
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Repeal
4 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
1 Cryptic Command
2 Fact or Fiction
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Chandra, the Firebrand
3 Back to Basics
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
13 Island
1 Mountain
1 Volcanic Island
Chandra is surprisingly good with all the Snapcasters, Mancers, Cliques and Confidants etc around. Casting double Fact or Fiction, Repeal or Cryptic Command next turn is very powerful, are there any other good instants or sorceries to abuse?
Sideboard could be:
3 Propaganda
2 Llawan
2-4 REB
4 Surgical Extraction
Some Stifles maybe as well.
EDIT: I should probably move Misdirection to SB.
@dsck: your list confuses me. i really think you should be running clique as a two-of, and snapcaster as a three-of. four snapcasters seems like too many to me, in a deck like this. i'd even suggest dropping down to two. also, if you're splashing red, you might as well toss in another mountain or two, and play lightning bolts, maybe even fire//ice as a one or two-of. in short, my suggestions are: -3 repeal, -1 spell snare, -1 snapcaster, +4 lightning bolt, +1 clique, but i'm not really even sure that would do the trick.
this is the list i've been playtesting on cockatrice, with decent success.
2 oblivion stone
2 sensei's divining top
2 vedalken shackles
2 sower of temptation
2 vendilion clique
3 jace, the mind sculptor
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
4 counterspell
3 spell snare
3 divert
3 back to basics
3 energy field
17 island
3 misty rainforest
3 scalding tarn
--------
2 pithing needle
3 relic of progenitus
1 back to basics
3 propaganda
3 chalice of the void
3 hydroblast
the problems that i'm running into are mainly with the sideboard. chalice is very restrictive since my curve has changed a little bit with all of the one drops, and i'm really thinking of testing mindbreak trap in it's place, even though it's implications are a little less, versatile. i've also been wanting to cut the pithing needles as well, but i can't think of another way to deal with aether vials, other than force of will.
maindeck, i've considered doing a 2/2/2 split of spell snare/divert/echoing truth, rather than the 3/3 (snare/divert) i'm currently running.
and while we're on the subject of divert, allow me to defend the card choice. at first, it's uses seem narrow, but in a lot of cases, it functions strictly better than spell pierce, and in every other case, it two-for-ones (a card in your hand, for a card in theirs, and a permanent) by redirecting the removal that they try to toss at your field. i'd also argue that divert does what misdirection does better than misdirection in the early game, and that's what this deck needs is early game moves. not too much feels better than pointing a hymn back at the opponent's face, especially knowing that you have the opportunity to do so on the play, barring opponent's dark ritual antics, relevant early game cards that divert hits: hymn to tourach, lightning bolt to the face, swords to plowshares, every counterspell. people seem to forget that divert/misdirection can redirect opposing counterspells to counter themselves, so even with a limited stack, divert becomes spell pierce against counterspells. it's not perfect, but it's working, it's catching a lot of people off guard, and once your opponent knows you're playing them, they constantly play around them. there's my two cents.
I run the same counter package as you except that I run 3 Force Spike where you run 3 Divert. I never played Divert, but theoretically it's awful, because it doesn't stop creatures. In your previous list you have run Force Spike, too, but seemed to have dismissed it then. Why the change? I'm very happy with Force Spike and I even don't run BtB.
Top over Fact is a no no in my opinion. You even only have 6 shuffle effects.
3 BtB + 3 Energy Field. That's another package I don't like. They both have in common that they only act as timewalks, but don't put you in a favourable position by themselves. I think this type of card is the wrong direction.
As for the SB: don't run Relic of progenitus. It's too slow, run something that is faster like Crypt, Extraction, Faerie Macabre. I also run Submerge, which I think is better than Propaganda.
@Iron Buddha
MUC without Back to Basics is just silly, B2B wins so many games when it resolves it isnt even funny.
After lots of testing this is my current list. I defintely needed some STPs to control early game and E.E.'s are just fast enough to do what they are needed to do. 2 Snapcasters seems good, 3-4 is too many. Im not sure about Fact or Fictions.
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Sower of Temptation
3 Back to Basics
2 Vedalken Shackles
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Cryptic Command
2 Fact or Fiction
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Spell Snare
2 Echoing Truth
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
10 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tundra
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Spell Pierce (discard/combo/show&tell)
SB: 2 Phyrexian Metamorph (Thrun/Progenitus/Reanimator)
SB: 3 Chill/Propaganda/Meddling Mage/Firespout/Submerge