pretty much every straight up aggro deck is like thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
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pretty much every straight up aggro deck is like thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
@people disagreeing with me: I'm still laughing. Please stop thinking what I said was a personal attack on you. I don't know you, and I couldn't care less if you think playing zoo makes you jedi masters.
I hope the post of someone with a lot more replies than I (Tacosnape) makes you realize that I am right ;D
Stop being so sensitive, it's a deck, not your kid.
Was thinking of that build with The Noble Hierarchs and planeswalkers. Thinking of an other 4cc dropp could be Bloodbraid Elf. Maybe in danger of cool things, but cascading into any creature or burn spell makes it pretty mana effective creature thats pretty good offensive of 3 power and haste.
Hey guys. So I'm piloting Merfolk and trying to get a leg up in the match. What do you not want to see? My sb plan is to bring in Submerge and (maybe?) back to basics? Is that a viable one? Lavamancer seems to be a big problem for me in testing, are you trying to resolve him against Merfolk?
Thanks guys.
Since that was my build, I'll respond. Bloodbraid Elf, while cool, would be less effective than playing planeswalkers in the 4cc slot since he has a pretty good chance of netting you another hierarch (which at that point is just kinda weak) or a dead PTE or something, whereas Planeswalkers give you consistent card advantage and are pretty much game breaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizso
But that's really hardly even worth discussing, since I don't think a build like that is viable in any but the most combo-devoid of metas (like mine was luckily enough last week.)
Good luck.Quote:
Hey guys. So I'm piloting Merfolk and trying to get a leg up in the match.
Stifle on Fetchland is the most annoying thing you have. Chaining lords with counters to block incoming removal is good.Quote:
What do you not want to see?
Submerge is very good, and back to basics can surprise someone g2 if they don't know you have it, but it's not the best answer, particularly since they have pridemage. Submerge, on the other hand, is pretty powerful.Quote:
My sb plan is to bring in Submerge and (maybe?) back to basics? Is that a viable one?
... Yes.Quote:
Lavamancer seems to be a big problem for me in testing, are you trying to resolve him against Merfolk?
You're welcome, but it's really a rough matchup for you. Especially mono-blue. You could pack tons of hate and still lose just because zoo's cards are very well suited to beat merfolk's.Quote:
Thanks guys.
You may want to try mind harness or threads of disloyalty, though both tend to be not much more than a speedbump when the enemy has a qasali pridemage or no goyf in play. If you're taking a wild nacatl or kird ape it's pretty much pointless. Unanswered on a goyf, though, and they have the potential to be pretty powerful.
All I'm saying in regards to this argument is that playing answers is not more difficult than playing threats, and I don't know how that misconception got started. Playing answers may involve more stress, but it is no harder to say "FoW pitching stifle" than it is to say "Taiga, Nacatl." And anyone who thinks it is is being suckered in by classic blue elitism.
This is a somewhat intelligent way to post, as you'll probably get better answers here than in the Merfolk forum. I play both regularly, though I'm probably better with Merfolk than Zoo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avier
The match is comparable to Goblins against Storm Combo. If you're Goblins, you have four approaches to Storm Combo:
1. Don't board for it at all and just lose.
2. Board for it a little and hope to get lucky when you play it.
3. Overboard for it and risk damaging your other matchups.
4. Don't play Goblins.
You can pretty much sub out Merfolk for Goblins and Zoo for Storm Combo and these statements are still true. And none of these are particularly wonderful strategies.
Large combinations of Misdirection, Submerge, Threads, Jitte, Stifle, and Blasts are generally what I don't want to see as Zoo. Merfolk doesn't have any specific card I'm terrified of, but if they have 8-10 broad-ranged pretty good cards against me, it can be a tough fight. So I don't think it's so much what cards they board in against me as how many.
Hi I've been wanting to get into this format for quite awhile, and while I would like to play Countertop, just because it sounds like a cool deck, or combo(ANT); it doesn't seem like a very good place for a new player to start.
So since I do have quite a few of the Fetches for this deck already. and one of the main cards which is Tarmogoyf. I figured I would build this deck. And it looks like a lot of fun. I would just have to work on the duals, which will be painful because I have none, but I can probably manage. I have read through this entire thread and what I am considering for my deck is as follows.
I don't know about those two FoD slots, but I'm still testing them out. I figure if I don't like them they can possibly become another land, or finish out my Chain Lightning, or Lightning Helix slots.
That brings up another question. Is running nine fetch lands enough with KotR? I don't know how much I like Horizon Canopy so I might consider another fetch over one of them as well.
Lands
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Savannah
2 Plateau
3 Taiga
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Arid Mesa
Creatures
2 Figure of Destiny
4 Qasali Pridemage
2 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
Non-creatures
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Chain Lightning
3 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
2 Sylvan Library
2 Umezawa's Jitte
The other thing I have a question about would be for sideboarding options. If I play this thing in a tournament I would expect to see alot of Countertop, and Land still I think.
So I'm thinking
3 Krosan Grip
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Ancient Grudge
???
???
I'm not sure what the others could be, but I thought of Pyrostatic Pillar, but I'm not sure I like that card much.
But anyways suggestions for the deck it's self and or sideboard would be much appreciated. Thanks
I'd suggest starting your sideboard with these 10 cards:Quote:
Originally Posted by Avier
4 Submerge
3 Threads of Disloyalty
3 Hydroblast
Hydroblast is the only singleminded Zoo hate card among these. Submerge and Threads are both useful against any deck packing Goyf (particularly CounterTop variants playing Bob)
Hi Guys,
like Stephen Menendian mentioned in his last article about the current metagame in Legacy, Zoo needs some graveyardhate in the board for its weaker matchups like Loam.
I like to know which kind of graveyardgate you prefer?
I lost my last round in a bigger tournament against Loam finishing 7th, just outside the price ranks. Sure, in the second game I kept an 2 land hand, which seems fine to me and was horrible srewed after an early wasteland.
So, my lists seems fine, finishing 3-1-1, but my feeling about the Loammachup 30% - 70%.
One of my mistakes was, that I had no GY-hate in my board, so what you prefer:
Tormods Crypt: Cheep, no Mana needed?
Relic of Progenistus: 2Mana needed at max., but with the option of drawing extra cards.
The new black trap:Its not easy to catch the LftL with it, but the suprise factor seems to be nice.
Leyline of the Void: only great at starting hands, so no option in my eyes.
Has anyone experiences in tournaments with the trap?
My decklist was similar to this one, which is an older list of me.
I would not go with trap. Unless you have black mana available (and most good decks have zero black) you are stuck only being able to play it when its trap condition occures. I would personally recommend a mix of crypts and relics. Say 2 of each.
I like the Relics the most.
I've been running a 2/2 split between Crypt and Ravenous Trap. I don't want to spend mana on grave hate, since that slows me down in addition to slowing down my opponent. Crypt is a little bit better than Rav Trap, but Rav Trap is much more difficult for opponents to play around since it comes out of nowhere. Both are really good against Ichorid and Loam, and Trap always gets cast for free in those matchups when you need it.
Against Loam, I would sugest you Price of Progress.
My thoughts exactly and I also don't want to get rid of my own graveyard because of Goyf and Lavamancer. So I prefer Crypts.Quote:
Originally Posted by b4r0n
But I do wonder if I'm right about this one. Against which decks do we want to remove both graveyards and against which ones only theirs is enough? I really can't think of any decks specifically.
Relic seems bad given that many lists run 4 Lavamancer, 4 Goyf and 2-4 Knight of the Reliquary. You pretty much neuter 10-12 of your creatures by removing your own graveyard. I can't really think of any matchup that is made worse by having a gravyard, so I would use Crypt over Relic as graveyard hate, and as mentioned it also doesn't tie up your mana.
relic is trash!! you fuck your grimms, goyfs, knights if you run them... aka. relic is crap
Some people are stuck on its cantrip. Crypt is strictly better here because it affects just your opp, not your toolbox
The cantrip is nice, but crypt is better primarily because of tempo. It allows you to be aggressive, while still disrupting, which is what this deck needs most. Also in some matchups (primarily aggro loam), you can still get it down through a chalice. Sure it doesn't hurt your goyfs, mancers, or knights, but that's not our primary concern. In matchups where we need graveyard hate, we need it quickly.
And yes this is mildy redundant, but I think people overlook the tempo aspect which makes it the better choice.
Sup. I'm in the process of building Zoo (kill him) at the moment. I'm having the following list in mind:
Creatures:
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Knight of the Reliquary
Spells:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile
2 Fireblast
2 Sylvan Library
Lands:
3 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
Sideboard:
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Pyroblast
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Price of Progress
2 Krosan Grip
Also, is it worth to replace Kird Ape with Steppe Lynx? Fetching once just seems ridiculously good with Steppe Lynx, especially since it will do double the damage that Kird Ape would do in 1 turn.
And oh yeah, thoughts about my sideboard?
My suggestion would be to cut Fireblast because it's just terrible. Ape is better than Lynx as well. Some games you don't draw fetches, and then you have an off color 0/1. This doesn't happen often, but this deck has done all sorts of things to me so i think this stuff out. Ape is just better.
Also jump the land count up, ALOT. You don't have library to get land, or Canopy to filter through your deck. I would personally never run below 21 lands myself. It helps to get lands, and helps to fight against a format defining card, Wasteland.
My opinion on the board is this, combo hate it pointless. In all the games I've brought stuff in against any combo deck, a turn two hate bear just isn't enough, then they bounce it or something. Pillar can be played through. Just hope to get lucky, even with sideboard cards.
On another note!! A playset of foil Arid Mesas have come into my possession from a friend of mine. Also i picked up some English Legends Chain Lightnings the other day leaving the remaining pimped cards at, 2 Sylvan Library which will be easy to acquire, and 2 foil Lavamancer but not the DCI bc he sucks.