[Primer/Deck] Pox

Check it out, in the trial winner's list. Pretty cool stuff, though I'd be tempted to fit a Horizon Canopy in there for powered draws.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...015-2015-07-04

Planeswalker (3)
3 Liliana of the Veil

Creature (2)
1 Vengeful Pharaoh 1 Nether Spirit

Sorcery (16)
4 Smallpox 3 Inquisition of Kozilek 3 Life from the Loam 2 Innocent Blood 2 Hymn to Tourach 1 Thoughtseize 1 Raven's Crime
Instant (9)

3 Entomb 3 Crop Rotation 3 Abrupt Decay
Artifact (1)

1 Sensei's Divining Top

Enchantment (2)
2 Pernicious Deed
Land (27)

4 Verdant Catacombs 3 Bayou 3 Wasteland 3 Mishra's Factory 2 Thespian's Stage 2 Swamp 2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale 1 Cabal Pit 1 Forest 1 Marsh Flats 1 Windswept Heath 1 Bojuka Bog 1 Dark Depths 1 Barren Moor
60 Cards

Sideboard (14)
1 Sensei's Divining Top 1 Barren Moor 1 Extirpate 1 Coffin Purge 2 Massacre 2 Chains of Mephistopheles 1 Engineered Explosives 1 Krosan Grip 2 Sphere of Resistance 2 Trinisphère

That's a nice deck. Good to see a Loam Pox pop up again. I've always wanted to use Vengeful Pharaoh, but I guess I never had it tuned right in testing I guess, opting for a Bloodghast instead, but maybe I should give the Pharaoh another run.

and a Coffin Purge sighting! That looks pretty nice with Loam.

I can actually tell you where that list started out. Late November last year Beez and JrEdelstein posted some similar decklists (browsing the thread it seems like it should be them), I built one and shortly after lent it to a friend who liked it, built it himself and have been playing and tweaking it ever since. I think the Pharoah tech may come from here too..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beez

and a Coffin Purge sighting! That looks pretty nice with Loam.

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It has a bit of value when you randomly mill it but don't forget you can instant-bin it with Entomb too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pettdan

I can actually tell you where that list started out. Late November last year Beez and JrEdelstein posted some similar decklists (browsing the thread it seems like it should be them), I built one and shortly after lent it to a friend who liked it, built it himself and have been playing and tweaking it ever since. I think the Pharoah tech may come from here too..

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It was not me playing but it seems like a very familiar list and almost definitely was inspired in part by this thread. I'd be interested to hear from the player on their thoughts. I want to make sure I have a solid list for Legacy Champs next month and GP Seattle in November.

I have tried Vengeful Pharaoh in the past as it is a great entomb target and not having to draw it because of Loam is great but the fact that you have to take damage from the attacking creature was too big of a down side for me but at the time sneak and show was huge so taking a hit from Emrakul or Griselbrand is not really what pharaoh would be good for. (Maybe I'll have to buy a Japanese Foil Vengeful Pharaoh :)

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Originally Posted by OmniStrata

The only hint I can give out:

My deck is Mono-Black Pox... :tongue: This will be my first like, 'big big' tourney so I don't want prying eyes. For Underworld Dreams, I won't be bringing it. It really doesn't matter what you draw if you can't cast it. :eek:

If you figure it out, please no talking... shhh. ^_^

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Are you going to tell us now? Also do we get a report?

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Originally Posted by echofish

Are you going to tell us now? Also do we get a report?

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My guess would be Chalice of the Void if Nether Void has already been ruled out. A turn one consisting of Dark Ritual into Inquisition into Chalice for 1 seems pretty nasty.

EDIT: Actually after thinking about it now I'm leaning towards Contamination.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jredelstein

It was not me playing but it seems like a very familiar list and almost definitely was inspired in part by this thread. I'd be interested to hear from the player on their thoughts. I want to make sure I have a solid list for Legacy Champs next month and GP Seattle in November.

I have tried Vengeful Pharaoh in the past as it is a great entomb target and not having to draw it because of Loam is great but the fact that you have to take damage from the attacking creature was too big of a down side for me but at the time sneak and show was huge so taking a hit from Emrakul or Griselbrand is not really what pharaoh would be good for. (Maybe I'll have to buy a Japanese Foil Vengeful Pharaoh :)

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Hi, I'm the person who actually played the list (Teodor sundberg and not suntberg) and it is Correct that i got inspiration from this Thread by proxy and i can say there been some mistakes in writing down the sideboard, the Two things are 1 enginered plague instead of enginered explosives, the other is that i have a third hymn to tourach in the sideboard.

The matches i hand in the trial was, grixis delver, 12 post, mud, jund and deathblade. Out of which i would say 12post and deathblade are my best match ups. I went 4-1 later in the tournament and after that IT went downhill and i droped after 5-3. I had Two Losses vs storm which i wouldn't count as a bad match up but i could have kept better hands and maybe gone lighter on my sideboard vs DnT since the current lists at my local meta has adapted to my deck and at the tournament it didnt Even feel close.

My third loss was vs miracles which I'm uncertain still if it's a bad matchup but i definetely need to tune my board vs IT and for the moment I'm thinking going for up to 4 hymn in my 75 and a null Rod in side in favor of the sensei's top there and swapping out a massacre for a maelstrom pulse.

In hindsight i would say the card Im most dissapointed with is chains of mephistopheles which should at most be a 1 of, IT simply doesn't do enough, quickly enough vs combo and i already have a good matchup vs decks that it punishes the most, which is blade and delver, dig being the best card doesn't really help Either.

I would love to have some feedback on the list and i can give further explanation for some card choices if people want me to, vengeful pharao, singelton top and maybe some tweaked Numbers.

Can you see yourself dropping a Crop Rotation? 3 seems a high number, so I would like some explanation here. Also the obvious how was Pharaoh?

What changes, if any, other than Chains would you make? And if you are bringing down Chains to a 1-of might you be better off running something else? Also, something I don't get is the Top in the sb. I figure two Tops is better vs Miracles and other grindier matches, but this deck is so grindy already it might be worth it to main-board it. 1-of Top seems in the main-board seems obvious though, very nice choice.

Basically, based on reading what you wrote, how would you feel on -1 Crop Rotation, +1 Top, and in the sb -1 Chains, -1 Top, +2 TBA? Also, what do you think off adding a 1-of Horizon Canopy for late-game draw action?

In mono-B my experience is that two, or more, tops lead to excessive use early game. Or in other words: mana is spent on top activation rather than spell casting.

Mono-B versions don't run 27 lands though. Very different lists we are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Kanti

Can you see yourself dropping a Crop Rotation? 3 seems a high number, so I would like some explanation here. Also the obvious how was Pharaoh?

What changes, if any, other than Chains would you make? And if you are bringing down Chains to a 1-of might you be better off running something else? Also, something I don't get is the Top in the sb. I figure two Tops is better vs Miracles and other grindier matches, but this deck is so grindy already it might be worth it to main-board it. 1-of Top seems in the main-board seems obvious though, very nice choice.

Basically, based on reading what you wrote, how would you feel on -1 Crop Rotation, +1 Top, and in the sb -1 Chains, -1 Top, +2 TBA? Also, what do you think off adding a 1-of Horizon Canopy for late-game draw action?

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I have tried the Numbers and i liked the 3 crop the best, basicaly all lands are eligable to fetch and IT gives much better game vs reanimator game 1, the 5 Biggest targets are, a fetch just to get value with loam, in response to wasteland or getting one to blow up key lands, mishra's factory, bojuka bog and lastly parts for the dark depths combo, I usually feel you can board out 1 though vs decks with 4 fow and no Wastelands.

The pharao was in the sideboard but i noticed IT worked Much better in the Main, since i all but given up a fair amount of game 1 vs combo and in most matchups you usually kill two dudes and then cast it which almost no nonwhite deck can handle(i think the sideboard gives you an edge and i usually win vs storm but i was pretty unlucky in the tournament), some decks also pack exesscive gravehate and boarding it out can usually be pretty nice Even vs some fair decks.

I don't like the double top Main, since it just there to give you a small chance to draw IT vs miracle since IT will usually go 20 draws into the deck before the end. Also null road would be more awkward if i had more tops, but i think the number of tops will be more of a meta call, i would say its all but worthless vs combo in your opening but if miracle stays as big And combo goes away more IT could be very nice. Will look further into it.

For the Canopy i think barren moor is a superior choice since without mox diamonds and exploration to cheat more mana into play, land drops is a serious resorce for the deck, Moreso than Cards in hand.

The Main changes are null Rod, maelstrom and more 1 mana Discard to give more %vs combo and control, since i after this weekend believe fair matchups to be what this deck will always beat if you play correctly, i easily beat many decks on the back of decent 4-5 card hands. I beat DnT on a 7 land start hand as well.

What are the benefits of Vengeful Pharaoh over say Darkblast? Do you use Pharaoh to beat in the late game?

Also, have you though of going something like -1 Loam, +1 Entomb, coupled with a change of -3 IOK, +3 Cabal Therapy for Entomb>Nether Spirit + Therapy fun? Might make the discard package a little bit stronger. Also, since the deck is 2-colors why not try to squeeze in the 4th Wasteland?

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Originally Posted by Kanti

What are the benefits of Vengeful Pharaoh over say Darkblast? Do you use Pharaoh to beat in the late game?

Also, have you though of going something like -1 Loam, +1 Entomb, coupled with a change of -3 IOK, +3 Cabal Therapy for Entomb>Nether Spirit + Therapy fun? Might make the discard package a little bit stronger. Also, since the deck is 2-colors why not try to squeeze in the 4th Wasteland?

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I like the cabal Therapy package, i am not sure if it's better the 3 inqusition though, When i become a better legacy player i might be up for it but just now i think i need to be better with it before i play it.

Darkblast simply doesn't kille x/2+ and you can't underestimate the Power of it killing a creature if it hits liliana, its rarely stuck in your hand as well and it can also just sit in your graveyard for a long time and you're not obligated to point it out until neccessary i.e. you or liliana are dealt damage and yes, a usally 3 turn clock is very good in the format so i get to beat down with him.

I like the 3 loam and 3 entomb, it's usally correct to get life from The loam but to slog though allt of counters the best way is to draw it naturally, not to mention entomb is Card disadvantage until you actually resolve your loam.

The mana Base is
Black
6 fetch, 2 urborg, 2 basic, 3 utility Lands 3 bayous
Giving you 16 black sources
Green
6 fetch, 1 basic, 3 bayou
Giving you 10 green
You also have 2 thespian's stage which Will fix mana in a pinch (usally double black)
I think this is the minimum amount to have since you watt to use your mana Every turn and if you only got bayou as color producer in the Dark you can keep it knowing you wont Lively run out of black. We can't skimp more without adding blue.
So i think the 4th wasteland would randomly lose us more games the win it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toxboy

I like the cabal Therapy package, i am not sure if it's better the 3 inqusition though, When i become a better legacy player i might be up for it but just now i think i need to be better with it before i play it.

Darkblast simply doesn't kille x/2+ and you can't underestimate the Power of it killing a creature if it hits liliana, its rarely stuck in your hand as well and it can also just sit in your graveyard for a long time and you're not obligated to point it out until neccessary i.e. you or liliana are dealt damage and yes, a usally 3 turn clock is very good in the format so i get to beat down with him.

I like the 3 loam and 3 entomb, it's usally correct to get life from The loam but to slog though allt of counters the best way is to draw it naturally, not to mention entomb is Card disadvantage until you actually resolve your loam.

The mana Base is
Black
6 fetch, 2 urborg, 2 basic, 3 utility Lands 3 bayous
Giving you 16 black sources
Green
6 fetch, 1 basic, 3 bayou
Giving you 10 green
You also have 2 thespian's stage which Will fix mana in a pinch (usally double black)
I think this is the minimum amount to have since you watt to use your mana Every turn and if you only got bayou as color producer in the Dark you can keep it knowing you wont Lively run out of black. We can't skimp more without adding blue.
So i think the 4th wasteland would randomly lose us more games the win it

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I agree with a lot of what you've said in the last couple posts. I will point out that Chains of Mephistopheles is very similar to Mother of Runes in that you don't realize how good it is. All we know is that our opponent has cards in hand but that fact that it is brainstorm or ponder or they can't draw with their top when they want to we usually never know.

I really like Cabal Therapy as an entomb target, The first entomb usually gets a Loam but being able to entomb for a discard spell be it cabal therapy or a bloodghast to flashback cabal therapy has won me a lot of games. I have also gone turn one Inquisition into turn 2 cabal therapy, play Mishra factory activate and flashback cabal therapy to get 3 or more cards of my choice from my opponents hand by turn 2. I also don't play thoughtseize because I find that the 2 life is more important than the extra card selection.

I agree Maelstrom Pulse is a good card against Miracles but the card I have liked the most lately for that match-up is Garruk Relentless. Council's Judgment is usually their only answer and they tend to use that on Liliana. I do play both Maelstrom Pulse and Garruk currently.

I will also point out the darkblast does kill x/2s it is just harder usually involving darkblasting during your upkeep and then dredging to do it again. Cabal Pit can also help there.

I actually like 2 Sensei's Tops we have so many ways to get a fresh top 3 with Loam, Entomb, Crop Rotation, Fetchlands and I find that games with top are so much easier than games without that I am ok with sometimes drawing a second (the second top can always be cashed in for a card before a shuffle). OmniStrata likes to say that if it isn't a threat or killing something than it doesn't belong in Pox (usually in reference to tutors) but that could be an argument for less Tops.

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Originally Posted by jredelstein

I agree with a lot of what you've said in the last couple posts. I will point out that Chains of Mephistopheles is very similar to Mother of Runes in that you don't realize how good it is. All we know is that our opponent has cards in hand but that fact that it is brainstorm or ponder or they can't draw with their top when they want to we usually never know.

I really like Cabal Therapy as an entomb target, The first entomb usually gets a Loam but being able to entomb for a discard spell be it cabal therapy or a bloodghast to flashback cabal therapy has won me a lot of games. I have also gone turn one Inquisition into turn 2 cabal therapy, play Mishra factory activate and flashback cabal therapy to get 3 or more cards of my choice from my opponents hand by turn 2. I also don't play thoughtseize because I find that the 2 life is more important than the extra card selection.

I agree Maelstrom Pulse is a good card against Miracles but the card I have liked the most lately for that match-up is Garruk Relentless. Council's Judgment is usually their only answer and they tend to use that on Liliana. I do play both Maelstrom Pulse and Garruk currently.

I will also point out the darkblast does kill x/2s it is just harder usually involving darkblasting during your upkeep and then dredging to do it again. Cabal Pit can also help there.

I actually like 2 Sensei's Tops we have so many ways to get a fresh top 3 with Loam, Entomb, Crop Rotation, Fetchlands and I find that games with top are so much easier than games without that I am ok with sometimes drawing a second (the second top can always be cashed in for a card before a shuffle). OmniStrata likes to say that if it isn't a threat or killing something than it doesn't belong in Pox (usually in reference to tutors) but that could be an argument for less Tops.

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I think pharao is better entomb target as well, since Darkblast technically can kill a delver or similar x/2 i think it's better to use it and take damage than to use 3 Cards, Entomb, Darkblast, darkblast.

I have Come to like garruk less Ever since miracles starten playing more creatures, since he randomly does nothing vs clique and they got council's Judgment he sometimes doesn't impact the board which we can't afford.

I think cabal therapy is fine as a 1 of but i almost always rather entomb raven's crime.

I think your point about chains of mephistopheles is True, but it doesn't do enough vs miracles to constitute a 2-of and The delver and bladen match-up is already very much in out favor for it to matter.

The change i currently made to the trials list is.

-1 innocent blood from main to sideboard, take in vs fair matchups.
+1 hymn to tourach main

Sideboard
-2 chains of mephistopheles
-1 top
-1 massacre

+ 1 thoughtseize or cabal therapy (probably thoughtseize)
+ 1 null rod
+ 1 Maelstrom pulse
+ 1 innocent blood

I will probably look into moving Maelstrom main and fittting in another top, but for the moment i think null rod is better also having 1 chains inspelad of the 4th hymn in sideboard

The tournament is July 18, 2015. The Legacy event is Starcitygames Chicago on July 19 (Sunday). I'll be bringing my trusty notebook for da details. Yes, of course I'll provide my tournament report. For now:

Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
2 (secret tech topdeck killer/the autoscooper) :tongue:
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Engineered Plague
2 Extirpate
3 Relic of Progenitus

I've decided to return Crucible of Worlds to my maindeck and reduce my total *secret tech* cards to 2 instead of 3. That Crucible should help and I can remove my Night of Souls' Betrayal and 1-of main deck plague if my enemy is not trying to swarm me. Like RUG Threshold or Combo decks or Omni-show. My favorite learning experience with this deck is figuring out the Sideboarding. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Toxboy

I think pharao is better entomb target as well, since Darkblast technically can kill a delver or similar x/2 i think it's better to use it and take damage than to use 3 Cards, Entomb, Darkblast, darkblast.

I have Come to like garruk less Ever since miracles starten playing more creatures, since he randomly does nothing vs clique and they got council's Judgment he sometimes doesn't impact the board which we can't afford.

I think cabal therapy is fine as a 1 of but i almost always rather entomb raven's crime.

I think your point about chains of mephistopheles is True, but it doesn't do enough vs miracles to constitute a 2-of and The delver and bladen match-up is already very much in out favor for it to matter.

The change i currently made to the trials list is.

-1 innocent blood from main to sideboard, take in vs fair matchups.
+1 hymn to tourach main

Sideboard
-2 chains of mephistopheles
-1 top
-1 massacre

+ 1 thoughtseize or cabal therapy (probably thoughtseize)
+ 1 null rod
+ 1 Maelstrom pulse
+ 1 innocent blood

I will probably look into moving Maelstrom main and fittting in another top, but for the moment i think null rod is better also having 1 chains inspelad of the 4th hymn in sideboard

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But Darkblast can help you Dredge. I was testing the list with Therapies instead of IOK, with -1 Innocent Blood, -1 Crop Rotation, +1 Darkblast, +1 Entomb, though after seeing the GP list and reading the Aggro Loam thread I really want to try to cut down to 2 LftL, especially when I run 4 Entombs. I would probably test the 3rd Hymn in this slot, which would leaves tons of room in the sb.

Anyways, the discard worked out just like I imagined. t1 I hit off an EOT Entomb>Nether Spirit, and I untapped into Therapy>sac Nether Spirit>Therapy on t2, which just neutered his hand. I know it might seem like Magical Christmas Land, but it's really just two cards so I imagine it to come up often enough. It's not the ability to fetch the Therapy with Entomb, because yeah, at that point Raven's Crime might just be better, but more the ability to set up double-Therapy turns with Nether Spirit.

If you were to keep Innocent Blood main, what do you think of the 1/1 split with Darkblast, keeping Pharaoh in the main? More dredge, and more ways to keep pesky tokens off the board? Also the obvious Darkblast, dredge, Darkblast for x/2's, like you mentioned.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kanti

But Darkblast can help you Dredge. I was testing the list with Therapies instead of IOK, with -1 Innocent Blood, -1 Crop Rotation, +1 Darkblast, +1 Entomb, though after seeing the GP list and reading the Aggro Loam thread I really want to try to cut down to 2 LftL, especially when I run 4 Entombs. I would probably test the 3rd Hymn in this slot, which would leaves tons of room in the sb.

Anyways, the discard worked out just like I imagined. t1 I hit off an EOT Entomb>Nether Spirit, and I untapped into Therapy>sac Nether Spirit>Therapy on t2, which just neutered his hand. I know it might seem like Magical Christmas Land, but it's really just two cards so I imagine it to come up often enough. It's not the ability to fetch the Therapy with Entomb, because yeah, at that point Raven's Crime might just be better, but more the ability to set up double-Therapy turns with Nether Spirit.

If you were to keep Innocent Blood main, what do you think of the 1/1 split with Darkblast, keeping Pharaoh in the main? More dredge, and more ways to keep pesky tokens off the board? Also the obvious Darkblast, dredge, Darkblast for x/2's, like you mentioned.

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It could all work, i think the cabal Therapy is better against a known meta but in the Dark i rather always have the IOK i Believe in playing with the numbers but you always want to hit something and it's not that important what it actually is. I don't Believe the darkblast to do nearly enough in the matchups its supposed to be good against and what tokens are you actually afraid of as a Pox deck the 3 crop rotation will leave you with 4 tabernacle available. If I have tabernacle and they have pyromancer i will win that match 70-80% unders they get out fast under it. The mentor is very similar except if they have enough Lands.

This is my philpsiophy at least, i completly discarded the card since i think cabal Pit is better and is also a land.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OmniStrata

The tournament is July 18, 2015. The Legacy event is Starcitygames Chicago on July 19 (Sunday). I'll be bringing my trusty notebook for da details. Yes, of course I'll provide my tournament report. For now:

Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
2 (secret tech topdeck killer/the autoscooper) :tongue:
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Engineered Plague
2 Extirpate
3 Relic of Progenitus

I've decided to return Crucible of Worlds to my maindeck and reduce my total *secret tech* cards to 2 instead of 3. That Crucible should help and I can remove my Night of Souls' Betrayal and 1-of main deck plague if my enemy is not trying to swarm me. Like RUG Threshold or Combo decks or Omni-show. My favorite learning experience with this deck is figuring out the Sideboarding. :cool:

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First time posting, I'm running Pox at SCG Chicago as well. Sounds like you have a secret weapon, excited to see what that turns out to be. Get Pox to top 8:cool::cool::cool: