I've been playing the black/red version with great success so far. I'll chalk it up to beginners luck. However, this thing is a buzz saw.
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I've been playing the black/red version with great success so far. I'll chalk it up to beginners luck. However, this thing is a buzz saw.
Nice! What decks have you played against so far?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanthos
It's hard to tell because I've won so fast. Delver, Storm, Death Blade perhaps? Nothing as quite as satisfying as comboing out faster than Storm. My only worry is running out of gas… More testing is needed but definitely a lot of fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPS
I played the deck both online (Cockatrice) and paper. Good to decent results overall. As am also playing UR Delver a lot, I can tell you that no, in this version of Reanimator, I do not miss Daze or FoW. Point is, the deck has more acceleration than the UB version due to Simian Spirit Guide. And Chancellor is here to prevent any interaction from your opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckerator
'Any' is obviously a bit too much, since you can turn around Chancellor the way you would a Daze.
Another major strength of the deck is its ability to be able to hadcaest some/most of its fatties (depending on your version), i.e. Sire of Insanity (often MVP is played T1/2), Titans (Grave but also Inferno) and even Griselbrand.
At last, you can also lean towards TinFins is you include Children of Korlis/Sickening Dreams (or Grapeshot).
Overall, the major pluses for this deck is that it is an underdog in the meta and people do not expect Reanimator to be this fast. And it is tons of fun to play.
M2c
do yuo have a list b/r reanimator? THANKSQuote:
Originally Posted by Rocco111
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=20855&iddeck=159429
Not mine, but very good example for a 'stock' Dindon Rea.
Then this is the one I played during a BoM Annecy Trials. The REB n Pyro were purely metagame-oriented and could be replaced with better options, more suitable to what you expect... I did 4-1 with it:
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Entomb
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Firestorm
4 Faithless Looting
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Reanimate
2 Animate Dead
4 Exhume
4 Chancellor of the Annex
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Grave Titan
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Children of Korlis
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Griselbrand
4 Badlands
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
SB: 2 Blood Moon
SB: 1 Inferno Titan
SB: 1 Ashen Rider
SB: 1 Blazing Archon
SB: 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
SB: 1 Rakdos Charm
SB: 1 Sickening Dreams
SB: 3 Stronghold Gambit
SB: 3 Sneak Attack
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
You are welcome.
What's the appeal of playing the "dindon rea" version, which plays Firestorms and Spirit Guides, over my version with Thoughtseize and Unmask? Are there any matchups you are looking to make better? I guess it's a bit easier to kill Containment Priest / DRS with Firestorm and a bit easier to hardcast some fatties with 4 Spirit Guides, but if you're only hardcasting Sire it's really not good enough sometimes.
If someone who plays the Firestorm / Spirit Guide version could chime in here that would be great.
Also, I think I am going to start writing a primer on the B/R version that me and some others have been jamming. It will be in the new/developmental decks section eventually.
I think both the Firestorm and Unmask tech's will be out dated in a few weeks as Collective Brutality becomes legal. Gives you the best of both worlds.
Unmask runs quite a bit quicker than Coll. Brutality can, B/R versions aren't really known for getting to 2 mana to fire off their discard (otherwise they'd have likely been using Hymn).
You do know you can activate every mode only once, right..?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojja
Very true, that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Although I still agree with the statement that Collective Brutality looks really sexy in a BR build.
Now to answer the question as to why Firestorm version over Unmask/Thoughtseize version.
1/ CD
- You need to pitch a black card to get to have your opponent to discard a card. And this is not even granted if you get countered.
- More often than I wish did I see players pitching Griselbrand or a reanimation spell to cast Unmask... Besides the above, I mean, you are forcing yourself to litteraly get rid of a win-con to "maybe" discard a card... This is like "über-CD" imho.
2/ Life
- Playing Reanimate, Griselbrand, fetchlands and sometimes Gitaxian Probes, your life points can already get really low sometimes. So it is really worth losing even more life points which would probably have given you the possibility of drawing 14 instead of 7?
3/ Reactivity
- Like Entomb, Firestorm can be played at the end of turn of your opponent.
- It can be played 'in response' to something, said an Infect player pumping up his threat or this Esper-player trying to equip a creature.
4/ Additional Win-Con
- You can kill your opponent (or his PWs) with Firestorm. You cannot with Unmask or Thoughtseize. And so, it never is a bad topdeck.
5/ Speed
- With 4 additional mana accelerators, the Firestorm is by default faster than the discard version.
This being said, a crossover of both is totally doable... Haven't done it, but why not.
M2c
I think the big selling point is the sideboard. SCG and the COT gives you the ability to actually cast you monsters for little investment and support the card Sneak Attack properly which is a large commitment in a 14 land deck. If you look at the sideboard as a way to skirt graveyard hate such like leyline (and to some extend the Cage/DRS/RIP etc) then SCG and the COT gives you the ability work around that while also giving you a more threat dense plan. I wouldn't personally run it but I am pretty sure that's the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSolver
Do people ever resolve Stronghold Gambit and stick a monster? in 100 matches I have played online I am not sure I have ever resolved it.
Sideboard options are also a good point, although I cannot see why would the Discard version not be able to play Sneak Attack. Won't be as efficient, sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampart
For S.Gambit, I think you should also tell vs which deck did you try to cheat a criter in? Like, typically, S.Gambit is auto-win vs combo decks (including Sneak n Show) and aside from Blue-based combo decks, it never gets countered... If you attempt S.Gambit versus aggro decks (incl. Burn), there's little chance this plan will ever work (obv).
I have used Stronghold Gambit against Lands and Storm. I typically take out 4 Faithless Looting and put in 4 Gambit, with the reasoning that I would rather put a creature into play than discard it. I could also see cutting discard spells / Firestorm for it.
What is CoT? Chancellor of the Annex? I don't know what you're referring to here. @Rampart
@Rocco:
1) If you are casting Unmask on your opponent, which you are in most cases, then you are fine with it getting countered because you can then combo off. If it doesn't get countered, you take their counterspell or Surgical or whatever and that is worth two cards to us. I do understand the card disadvantage argument, though Firestorm is the same way sometimes. If you pitch two cards to kill Deathrite, you are investing three cards from your hand. I have used Unmask on myself a bunch of times to turn a mediocre hand into a turn 1. Plus, after some draw 7s you can cast two of these and there's no way your opponent will be dealing with your stuff anymore after taking two key cards out of their hand.
2) I can understand the life loss argument with Thoughtseize and I bet that Firestorm is better on the draw against Deathrite.
3) I remember playing Firestorm to good effect against Infect to kill creatures. fair argument
4+5) fair argument
I just think that having discard spells seems so good against the decks that are willing to mulligan a lot to try to interact. If someone mulligans to 4 or 5 looking for a Surgical or Faerie Macabre, I would like to be able to cast a discard spell and take their Surgical rather than get blown out. It just seems like you are colder to a lot of free hate from hand. That being said, if you are all-in on ignoring that with the Sneak Attack / Stronghold Gambit plan, then you should be all-in on it with 4 of each I think. But then without discard Gambit is so much worse.
I am still writing the R/B primer and it's going to be great. Feel free to PM me with any information you want to make sure I include, even just bullet points that I will elaborate on myself.
Because a 4 mana enchantment can be difficult to cast either on time or ahead of time. Especially one that is heavy on Red in you mana. The discard Version runs less Red sources in general too so you can get color-screwed slightly more often.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocco111
I have only been siding it in against elves. In all honesty I bring S. Gambit against all the decks that S.Gambit is strong against? Lands, Show and Tell based decks, Ritual Based Combo, I also add a couple for the Eldrazi matchup to hedge against Leyline. Gambit has just never worked out for me I guess, I think i have resolved it one time against storm and they put in a Bob (:rolleyes:) it ether gets stripped, or reanimating is the better option or I never draw it, etc.. I am not sure that I even want it in those matchup's to be honest as the hate is minimal or not effective like Flusterstorm out of storm. I think I am going to try something else that make the eldazi match up betterQuote:
Originally Posted by Rocco111
@DNSolver - CoT - City of Traitors
:laugh: vs Elfball :laugh: good one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampart
I think that you did the right choice in the MUs you boarded it in. But as I was more than once pointed at, variance is also part of the equation. Versus Storm, yes, if they put Bob, Gambit sucks... but well, sh*t happens.
It is not so much a Hate card as a 'Dodge' card, allowing you to bypass their hate.
But I can totally understand that it may not appeal to all. :)
OKQuote:
Originally Posted by Rocco111
Anyone else have any success running S.Gambit and getting monsters in to play?
I noticed that that the winning reanimator lists are all unanimously UBg, with minor differences in number of duplicates and perhaps reanimation targets. Has reanimator been "solved"?
I feel that reanimator has hit it's ceiling as they are unlikely to print more tools (reanimation spells>reanimate, free counterspells, disruption>thoughtseize, anti-hate>abrupt decay). With that in mind I splurged on a stock UBg reanimator list (I know that reanimator may not be the most competitive, but it's the coolest deck ever imo and i had the cash lying around) My only worry is that reanimator will never get any new cards outside reanimation targets :(
I can't say that this is certain, since I haven't tested it yet, but I feel really good about Collective Brutality coming out in the next set, I think it will be a big tool for some reanimator players.
As an aside, I think that there are two camps of reanimator players (Decks?):
1)All in on the Combo: We see this style in the lower land count + lotus petal builds, i.e. the decks that CAN go off on turn one.
2)More interaction: We see this style in the slightly higher land count, no petals, but more interactive pieces, similar to my 4c GP build.
Back to your question, if you fall in the second camp, I think that new toys can and will come your way, but if you fall in the first camp, you're less likely to get new cards because of how streamlined the list is.
Haha what camp would you say this list falls in?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stryfo
Creatures (8)
- 4x griselbrand
- 1x iona
- 1x sire of insanity
- 1x elesh norn
- 1x archetype of endurance
Reanimation spells (9)
- 4x reanimate
- 4x exhume
- 1x animate dead
Dig (14)
- 4x brainstorm
- 2x ponder
- 4x careful study
- 4x entomb
Disruption (9)
- 4x FoW
- 3x daze
- 2x thoughtseize
Misc (5)
- 3x lotus petal
- 2x show and tell
Lands (15)
- 3x underground sea
- 1x bayou
- 1x tropical island
- 4x polluted delta
- 1x flooded strand
- 1x marsh flats,
- 2x bloodstained mire
- 1x swamp
- 1x island
Sideboard
- 1x ashen rider
- 1x tidespout tyrant
- 4x abrupt decay
- 2x show and tell
- 2x thoughtseize
- 2x echoing truth
- 3x pithing needle
It is not exactly all in, but it does have the ability to get griselbrand out T1. It seems like the build is already streamlined though, just about tweaking card ratios but the card choices (other than reanimation targets) seem to be set in stone. Hell, I don't even know what I'd cut for Collective Brutality!