[Deck] Suicide Black

OK so I played a small tourney.
Got a bye round 1 which sucks,

round 2 i mana screwed maverick in game 1 and bashed him with a shade, and in game 2 he went down to dystopia from the board. 2-0 win

round 3 i played canadian thresh. Game 1 he got a goyf quickly to 4/5 and my snuff out wasn't quite able to save me.

Game 2 i chalice of the voided him set at 1 which screwed him and leyline of the voided him which screwed his threshold. I managed to bash him with stromgald cabal with a jitte on it eventually.

Game 3 He mulliganed to 5 and i hymed him to 3 but missed his land! I never saw any hate and the game stabilised and we were top decking. I drew 2 lands and he drew 2 Goyfs!! Game ended quickly. 2-1 loss

So, what did i learn apart from it was fun to play.

1. Negator definately is too risky for main board
2. Chalice of the Void is an excellent SB card and I'm happy I ran with it over Pithing Needle.
3. Snuff Out is great for tempo with sinkholes/hymns
4. evasion and pro from white on stromgalds is great for carrying jittes
5. shades are worth playing
6. jittes were excellent
7. Dystopia is so good in the SB for mono black
8. edicts were good as only need 1 black mana, but need snuff outs with them.
9. diregrafs just there for mana curve and to up creature count
10. i still love hyppies but i'd rather dark ritual into a hymn given the choice.

All in all a viable deck and fun to play, I would play it again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by orcanmail

OK I usually play Goblins, but for variety I have dusted down my black cards, and added a few after reading this entire thread and tomorrow night I'll be taking Sui Black to my club for it's first surprise outing. So here's my list, inspired by my love of Sinkhole and Hypnotic Specter ( Old School )

MD
Snuff Out x4 ( Tempo )
Dark Ritual x4
Duress x 4 ( don't own Thoughtseize but not sure if I prefer it anyway )
Diregraf Ghoul x 4 ( Mana Curve )
Diabolic Edict x3 ( Large untargetable creatures )
Hymn to Tourach x 4
Sinkhole x4 ( An old favourite )
Nantuko Shade x 3
Stromgald Crusader x 3 ( evasion, pro from stp jitte carrier )
Hypnotic Specter x4 ( Oh how I love my hyppies! )
Umezawa's Jitte x 3 ( Game winner without Negator MD )

Wasteland x 4
Swamp x16

SB
Leyline of the Void x 4 ( Seems necessary as discard fills their GY )
Pithing Needle x 4 ( considering Chalice of the Void x 4 for storm combo and burn instead, not sure here )
Phyrexian Negator x 3 ( Risky main deck, but lurking with intent in SB )
Dystopia x 4 ( Goyfs etc and pesky white enchantments )

So I guess pretty straight forward old school sinkhole / hyppie route. I love mana / card screwing opponents, so much fun!

Well tell me what you all think, and I'll tell you how my tourney goes tomorrow night!

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So I've been running the above list with slight alterations in SB

4 x Chalice instead of Pithing Needles
3 x Gatakeeper of Malakir instead of Negators
Replaced 1 Dystopia with an extra diabolic Edict

All I can say is that the list seems to work and I have been winning prizes each time I play.

I shall replace duress with Inquisition of Kozilek when I get some as well, apart from that the list seems to play well.

Disruption, Tempo, Pressure, Success!

what do you think about my list?

4dark ritual
4thoughtseize
4hymn to tourach
4sinkhole
4bloodghast
4nantuko shade
4phyrexian negator
4tombstalker
3snuff out
2liliana of the veil
2reanimate
4polluted delta
4bloodstained mire
4wasteland
9swamp

side
3piting needle
2perish
2jitte
4gatekeeper of malakir
4extirpate/leyline

my last tourney was 2years ago...need help! i'm just come back to play mtg!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by miccel

what do you think about my list?

4dark ritual
4thoughtseize
4hymn to tourach
4sinkhole
4bloodghast
4nantuko shade
4phyrexian negator
4tombstalker
3snuff out
2liliana of the veil
2reanimate
4polluted delta
4bloodstained mire
4wasteland
9swamp

side
3piting needle
2perish
2jitte
4gatekeeper of malakir
4extirpate/leyline

my last tourney was 2years ago...need help! i'm just come back to play mtg!

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suicide black is not that viable right now.

The 2 reanimates just seem a bit random. Try Unearth instead. I think it's a very underrated card in Legacy.

Liliana of the Veil isn't anything remarkable in this deck. There are many better spells that have a cmc of 3; Hypnotic Specter, Phyrexian Arena, Vampire Nighthawk, Gatekeeper of Malakir (well, I GUESS you could say its cmc is 3).

Phyrexian Negator has aged terribly. Avoid that card entirely.

-4negator +4gatekeeper maindeck-2lilly and reanimate +1snuff out +3piting needle? (jace sensei vial equip)
i love hippy but he's not too slow now?
i cut hippy for bloodghast for any recursion after eventually wrath or pernicius.,.so the top deck land
is not too bad...
have any sense my choice for you or i'm crazy?:smile:

Quote:

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4dark ritual
4thoughtseize
4hymn to tourach
4sinkhole
4bloodghast
4nantuko shade
4phyrexian negator
4tombstalker
3snuff out
2liliana of the veil
2reanimate
4polluted delta
4bloodstained mire
4wasteland
9swamp

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Man that is truly suicidal with thoughtseize, reanimate, snuff out and fetchlands especially with the amount of burn in the format right now. I would actually suggest a hybrid of sui-black and The Gate. I have deck built like that, basically sui-blacks best aspects + abyssal persecutors, tombstalkers, gatekeepers, nighthawks, jittes, bitterblossoms, SDT etc. It can randomly wreck people with ritually fueled plays but packs the card advantage of the gate. Fucking fun deck and theres still nothing as satisfying as taking their answer t1 then ritualling a daemon t2 ftw.

yeah that's right...I take a lot of damages with this (old but i think beautiful :tongue:) build...i've tryed obliterators over negators but often i've only 3 lands on the field and watch my fatty in my hand:frown:
well negator against red based is very very very very very bad i known so i decide to cut him because my meta(nord italy) is full of canadian thresh, maverik, uw stoneforge and randomly ant, reanimator,affinity and team america( last version without stalker and with jace and lilly)...what do you think about these MU? side is under construction too...
sorry if my english is not percfect but i've leaves school some years ago :wink:

I'm wondering why the choice of Diabolic Edict > Geth's Verdict? Is it just because of Wasteland?

2 questions,

firstly is Lake of the Dead worth playing for pumping out wins?

secondly is drain life worth playing as it gives extra reach but is a little slow?

and as for a comment, why oh why is necropotence banned in legacy, it makes my heart bleed!

@miccel, If you get stuck on three land then you run too few.
Remember, Wasteland (and mishra's factories) do not count as lands; they take up SPELL slots. Go up to like 20-22 swamps. Note that they don't get stifled.

If you are going to play black suicide, you might as well play eva green.

You get to abuse tarmogoyf, scavenging ooze, and you get excellent board wipes in pernicious deeds and maelstrom pulse.

I'd like to reinforce some of the latest posts. Phyrexian Negator just isn't playable. Neither is Lake of the Dead, BTW, as long as there's wasteland. Reanimate seems misplaced. Consider Inquisition of Kozilek over Thoughtseize (FoW doesn't ruin your day like it does for combo). And I'm 100% with AoS - a green splash goes a long way! Eva Green > Sui Black.

well just to echo what other people have been saying. suicide black does not currently have the tools to be viable at the moment. the format is defined by cards like

Delver of Secrets
Tarmogoyf
Stoneforge Mystic
Batterskull

and the like. what does black have to deal with a 3/2 flyer for one? not a whole lot. sure you can play removal. honestly, i think any type of edict card is too slow. you want free removal like snuff out and contagion but then you are going one for one and you still have to draw the removal AND you have to cast it have it not countered.

its understandable that you would want to play Negator over Obliterator, but coming from someone who has thoroughly tested Negator, it is subpar right now. You could main deck it but it presents problems with cards like Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary, Mother of Runes, burn, etc. I would recommend playing City of Traitors to get it out on Turn 2 consistently if not turn 1.

in terms of discard, generally Hymn is considered a good card, but even Hymn is a bit slow in the format right now. unmask may be the way to go but it is card disadvantage. it may be worth it. but i say this not as a recommendation but to illustrate suicide black has an uphill battle in the current format. a BBBB 5/5 trampler is not reliable enough.

the most dominant black deck now, Pox runs an arsenal of disruption, basically to make up for the fact the cards they win with Mishra’s Factory, Cursed Scroll, Bloodghast and Nether Spirit which are comparably weak.

i think key cards for Suicide are some type of creature buff like Umezawa’s Jitte or Unholy Strength recommended a while back by Jin15. there may be a list out there but at this point it seems unlikely. jitte still gives many creature decks problems. its a way to level the playing field if you can get an active one. Jin15 says is slow and plays Unholy Strength instead, but both may be in order. something that pumps your guys since black’s creatures are so small.

i will reiterate the list by Stark. it has a singular focus. resolve jitte on a small creature. disrupt combo decks. race other weenie decks. protection from white may be a solution. have had limited success with creatures like Stromgald Crusader. also cards that cost you life like Confident and/or Bitterblossom seem like a must include because the give many decks headaches.

also drain life and lake of the dead are too slow in my opinion. if you need lake of the dead, i would only play 1. you can’t really afford to sacrifice too many land in the current format. i used to run 1 lake of the dead and 3 culling the weak in a hatred deck which is also problematic now. drain life has never been played in suicide black at least since the ‘90’s. i really don't have an opinion about Eva Green as i have never played the deck.

in fact i was an eva green player with good results...but i've sell goyfs bayous and all green card for splash...i'm trying to build a deck monocolor but replace goyf for my suicide gameplay is very difficult..
i've try obliterator but i dislike them...negator in better in this archetype in my opinion but the drawback is an hard problem in this metagame...from red based i'm lost!!!! i've test negator in these days but only against merfolk maverik and zoo....against zoo no comment but agaist merfolk and maverik is not so bad with a fast cast with rotual at t1...i've close the game quickly...but in a competitive tournament prospective i don't known if it is a good choice:cry:...sunday i will go to a medium tourney after 2years and try to play suicide without goyfs first time...
about kozilek and seize...i play seize for the possibility to discard everiting if i need...any planeswalker for example...a fow for my important casting...i dont known i need more test for other considerations...thanks for helps guys

Apart from no one playing this deck, why doesn't it play Chains of Mephistopheles?
It hoses Brainstorm and Jace pretty bad, makes Ponder a bit worse and be therefore great against RUG, ANT and High Tide. Also all the Blade decks take a hit from it.

that is true, no one play this deck...but the metagame is made by the choicse of players...for example if in a 50players tournament there are 15maverik...min 1 go to top 8...put 15suicide in the same competition...if only 1go top8 we will say "suicide come back"! it is only my opinion of course...sorry
if i've change the discussion but i can not belive this archetype is dead! i love only sui gameplay!
about chains of M. i think it is not bad card for this deck...need test

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tempus

Apart from no one playing this deck, why doesn't it play Chains of Mephistopheles?
It hoses Brainstorm and Jace pretty bad, makes Ponder a bit worse and be therefore great against RUG, ANT and High Tide. Also all the Blade decks take a hit from it.

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I expect because most of us playing around wth Sui do not have $200 bucks to get Chains. It is fine if you are playing MWS where the cards do not cost anything.

I bought 2 italian chains for 60 bucks. ha ha.

Anyways. Its not a good MD card. its an awesome SB card. You automatically kill doomsday, combo elves, and high tide combo.

It doesn't really work too well against ANT and TES though..but your nasty discard package should suffice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow

I bought 2 italian chains for 60 bucks. ha ha.

Anyways. Its not a good MD card. its an awesome SB card. You automatically kill doomsday, combo elves, and high tide combo.

It doesn't really work too well against ANT and TES though..but your nasty discard package should suffice.

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Doomsday doesn't autolose to chains. They CAN combo through it with enough cards in hand. Not to mention bounce spells are a thing. Never underestimate combo decks. They can also have the capacity to just IGG loop to kill you, as that doesn't involve drawing cards. Or empty the warrens for a bunch. Or any number of things really. Also with high tide, they have access to bounce spells via cunning wish rather easily especially considering they can merchant scroll for wish then wish for a bounce spell. But really, chains isn't that great of a card in legacy. If it was instant speed, then hells yeah I would play that card in legacy just to live the dream of responding to brainstorm with it but as it stands the card is awful.