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Or play the sorcery speed version? It has a good matchup against *****. (And I am referring to the version playing meddling mages maindeck.) In addittion, i find goblins to be almost bye to it :cool:
Downside, or at least one of them, is almost imminent folding to landstill in game 1.
This, however, is not the correct thread to spring tide talk. Just a proposition, 'cause the two decks are quite similar :smile:
This is probably a bad idea, but what about:
4 Quicken + 4 Merchant scroll in this deck?
Merchant scroll for setup before combo and Quicken to cantrip into instant speed scroll while comboing.
You can suggest merchant scroll and quicken but what do you cut for those 8 slots, the decklist is pretty tight already
In the current metagame, what is the suggested sideboard and boarding plan?
Currently, my sideboard is:
4 Disrupt/Spell Snare
4 Wipe Away
1 Brain Freeze
1 Meditate
1 Turnabout
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rebuild
1 Stroke of Genius
I play the 3 Twincast main-version, mono blue. I am still not sure if I should use Disrupt or Spell Snare
I tested a version of "Quicker Solidarity" already. Merchant Scroll is actually quite good, but it is really not worth it, because you usually find all the combo pieces you need by turn 4 anyways. It made the combo more inconsistent, because in practice, it happens too often that Merchant Scroll is a dead card during the midcombo, because you cast Quicken in the beginning to find land and don't draw one afterwards.
I'm unsure about the sideboard too. I think 4 Wipe Away is far too much. What is your board plan vs. Thresh with that board?Quote:
Originally Posted by smoky squirrel
Out go the 4 Remand, in go the 4 Spell Snare or Disrupt. If they play counter-top, 4 various cards for the Wipe Aways, or somewhat less. The Wipe Aways are there against decks that play Chalice, or other disruptive permanents.
4 Wipe Away seems too much to me too. Probably 3 of them is fine.
I am currently testing the following sideboard:
4 Disrupt
4 Spell Snare
1 Brain Freeze
1 Peer through Depths
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Turnabout
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
Since there are no Goblins around, I cut the Hydroblasts and run a playset of Disrupt. These help to fight through discard-packing decks like Suicide Black (Dark Ritual, Sinkhole, Hymn to Tourach) and Deadguy Ale (Vindicate). I usually side out 4 FoW on the play (very risky, indeed) and 4 1cc cantrips (e.g. 2/2 Opt/Peek) for 4 Disrupt and 4 Spell Snare in this MU. In addition to that, the capability of 16 counters postboard helps a lot against fast combo, too.
I play one copy of Peer through Depths because I play 4 Meditate MD. Again, I would never ever side out Remands against Aggro/Controlish decks. Dominating the stack is the way to win these games. :eek:
@ Lukas: Are you going to play Solidarity in Iserlohn or Düsseldorf next year?
what is the standard list?
i see the board is metagameable.
what would you play in a thresh heavy meta?
or would breakfast be the better deck in that kinda meta?
You can find a standard list here.Quote:
Originally Posted by APriestOfGix
This deck has a poor matchup against Thresh, and this is probably the main reason it is not played much anymore (the other reasons I remember now are faster combos - Belcher, Cephalid, etc - , and counterbalance popping everywhere).
I wouldn't say that there is a standard list. I would agree on some core cards, though.Quote:
what is the standard list?
18 lands, 6 to 8 of them being fetchlands
4 High Tide
4 Reset
3 Turnabout
3 Cunning Wish
3 Meditate
2 Flash of Insight
4 Force of Will
3 Remand
The 16 variable slots can be filled up with something like
8 1cc cantrips
4 2cc cantrips
4 utility cards (Twincast, 4th Remand, 4th Meditate, maindeck bounce).
You have to keep in mind that bluebased aggro/control decks like Thresh or Fish are very demanding matchups. Nevertheless, I would suggest a 4th Remand and 3 Twincast in the utility slots to fight through their counterwall.Quote:
what would you play in a thresh heavy meta?
You can't really compare Solidarity with Breakfast. While Breakfast is able to change its role from combo to beatgoyfdown, Solidarity has to stick to its combo part. Thus Solidarity is much more affected by disruption. On the other hand, Breakfast can be shut down by graveyardhate. :laugh:Quote:
or would breakfast be the better deck in that kinda meta?
/Edit:
The main reason of Solidarity's decline isn't Thresh, but the rise of fastcombo like Ichorid or TES.Quote:
This deck has a poor matchup against *****, and this is probably the main reason it is not played much anymore.
I've actually been liking 3 Peer Through Depths maindeck. I went radical and cut Flash of Insight to test them, as Flash seems to be just a bit too slow nowadays in a format where I rarely get that cherished fifth and sixth turn to set up just a little more effectively. I love FoI, but it doesn't help me get my combo in hand by turn four with backup. I'd rather have a slightly higher chance of fizzling mid combo than lose because my hand sucked when the lethal Goyf swung for the kill. I do still keep a Flash of Insight in sideboard, however.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimster
Peer has done pretty well for me so far. I hate that it can't grab lands, but it lets me use Opt and Impulse to snatch lands with less reservations, and Peer's great at snagging what I need. I hate that it gives my opponent information as to what I'm lacking in my combo, but so does an EOT Cunning Wish on turn three, so shrug. The only difference is that in the case of things like Cabal Therapy, I might be able to go off after the EOT Wish before Therapy resolves, whereas it's less likely with an EOT turn 2 Peer.
This is negligible, however, as I play Peer as a third priority behind Impulse and Remand, as Peer is better mid-combo than either one, and Remand and Impulse are better pre-combo.
I also tried the Peer sideboard, much like you, because I was maindecking the four Meditates. I found this to be a pretty decent solution as well.
EDIT: For what it's worth, I haven't found Ichorid to be all that unwinnable. I'm 2-0 against it in tournament play, and my testing's put it about even, varying heavily on how explosive their draw is and how many Therapies hit me in the face. The bright side of the match is that it takes very little steam to Freeze them into oblivion. (Cephalid Breakfast is probably another matter.)
I'll have to disagree here. There are only a very few slots in the deck that are actually debateable. For instance, you should always play 4 Brainstorm and 4 Impulse. I don't see any reason to not play 4 Remand either, since the card has two very important functions in this deck. My standart list is this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimster
12 Island (what kind of island do you use? Mine are Unhinged)
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
4 High Tide
4 Reset
3 Meditate
3 Turnabout
2 Flash of Insight (Taco's post made me doubt this a little tough)
2 Brain Freeze (you should always play 2. 2 is the right number)
4 Force of Will
4 Remand
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
3 Cunning Wish
2 Opt
This leaves 3 slots open. I think at least 2 Opts are needed to keep the deck fast enough. Not running these will occasionally lead to manascrew, which instantly means a loss.
I'm not sure about what to play in those 3 slots so far. I've been playing the old combination of 2 extra Opt and a Twincast, but I have to admit 3 Twincast main seems tempting as well.
I think it's important that you also explain your sideboard strategies when you post your sideboard. I've been playing this deck for quite a long time now and I'm still not sure about what to board vs. what. Especially the aggro-control and Pikula matchups are tough. I'd like to ask everyone here who knows this deck better than I do to explain me how you board and how successfull that is for you.
By the way, 1 of the 6 Solidarity lists from the worlds is up already: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=229741
It's a really weird list. It plays 4 Meditate mainboard (I've always heard this was bad, but I've been using Meditate much more as a setup card lately (it's such an awesome card for that. You can simply Force everyting you see and draw a new hand afterwards) giving it 2 roles in this deck) and has a really weird sideboard (Pact of Negation??). Tell me what you think!
I am of the opinion that 4 Remand are crucial for Solidarity, too. On the other hand, people might say that they are kinda dead during mid-combo, since they do literally nothing at this point. It always depends on your style of playing the deck.Quote:
For instance, you should always play 4 Brainstorm and 4 Impulse. I don't see any reason to not play 4 Remand either, since the card has two very important functions in this deck.
Definitely Brainstorm and Impulse are compulsory in the 1cc and 2cc cantrip slots at the moment. I tried to point out that they are nonetheless replacable, as soon as WoTC releases better alternatives in their specific cc-slot (like Ponder would have been, if it had been an instant spell).
When you say dead mid-combo, does that include the fact that you can play Brainfreeze and then remand Brainfreeze to play it again? Or other stack tricks like taking stuff out of stack to replay it again to over things like Orim's Chant on the stack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimster
Remand is a tempo godsend. I'd always run at least 3, probably 4. I almost never board Remands out on the play, though I will sometimes on the draw.
Remand is a pre-combo card that buys you time and lightly sculpts your hand in the process. Mid-combo, think of it as a 4-mana second Brain Freeze. It also lets you do ridiculously cool shit like EOT High Tide into a counterwall, then either they aim a counter at it and you Remand the Tide, or you get a ton of mana to do your awesome stack-defying tricks and Remand your way around the counters.
This is a large reason why I don't find three Twincasts maindeck to be a good idea. Twincast, like Flash of Insight, doesn't help you set up your combo quickly. Remand is almost as good at fighting through counters as Twincast is (It just takes a bit more mana to do effectively, though you get a card in the deal). Remand won't duplicate a Meditate or Reset, but c'est la vie.
Mid-combo ranges from winning to losing, as it's the critical step between resolving the High Tide and finding a Brain Freeze. At this time you neither need a counterspell, nor you need a cc2+ cantrip which only replaces himself.Quote:
When you say dead mid-combo, [...]
As I mentioned above, I am fully aware of the magic things Solidarity is able to do with the stack. :smile:
/Edit:
That's the reason I like to play Solidarity instead of other combo decks. Strength may win a fight, but style wins the crowd. :)Quote:
It also lets you do ridiculously cool shit like EOT High Tide into a counterwall, [...]
I would like to suggest some tech for you all to consider-
-1 High Tide (move to sideboard)
+1 Cunning Wish
I feel like there is a high probability that I am not the first one to think of this, so can anyone tell my why 7 ways to get High Tide isn't a good thing and/or the ability for Cunning Wish to grab any combo part (making it functionally an instant speed 3 mana Demonic Tutor)? I played this build at a scrubby tournament and won handily. While that proves nothing, I really enjoyed not having to waste all my cantrips in the first few turns trying to find a High Tide and was able to save the card draw for going off, and in general made getting all the combo parts easy.
I hear that not everyone likes Cunning Wish, even as a 3 of, so if that change doesn't do it for you, then perhaps this would suit you-
-1 SB card
+1 Mystical Tutor (in SB)
The Hulk in vintage used to play a sideboard copy of Vampiric Tutor to wish for, so that is my inspiration for this. This way, Cunning Wish can still grab you a High Tide or Reset or whatever, and have it ready to go by turn 4 (eot Wish on turn 3, Mystical Tutor on your turn before your draw step, draw card) (in case that wasn't obvious).
I feel like one of these two changes HAS to be good for the deck. In a deck with no tutors, sometimes your combo parts are simply going to be in the bottom of the deck, and can-tripping is just not going to get the job done. And consistency is awesome.
the reason mystical tutor isn't played is because you dont get the card,you need a cantrip to grab what you searched for also.
and your opponent can see what they have to counter..
hightide in the sb is a very bad idea,the chance of going off turn 4 is less then when you would have played 4main.
i for myself play 4cunning wish maindeck,the card is just so good,i play the deck for a year now and 4cunning wish is just that good,i lost games because i used the freeze trick on myself,but there whas no wish left to win,that's one reason why i play 4,second,it's never a dead draw,even when i combo i still like to see a cunning wish,whether i got all the fancy stuff in my hand or not!
and it's a great setup card on turn 3(but you already know that isn't it?)
i agree,it's a slow card,but very effective.