[Deck] Death and Taxes

i am very intrested in mirran crusader right now, since the meta slowed down a bit, he seems like he could be extremely awesome, only problem would be what to cut, and i would want at least 2 mirran crusader in my list

right now my list looks something like this

4x karakas
4x wasteland
3x rishadan port
10x plains (or 11x, don't know exactly havent got my deck with me)

4x mother of runes
3x stoneforge mystic ( +1 cutting a jötun in the future)
3x jötun grunt (-1 for the 4th stoneforge)
4x flickerwisp
4x serra avanger
3x mangara of corondor
4x phyrexian revoker

4x swords to plowshares
2-3x oblivion ring

4x äther vial
1x jitte
1x sword of fire and ice
1x sword of light and shadow
1x sword of feast and famine

my thoughts for the cuts were sword of feast and famine, and an oblivion ring for 2 mirran crusader, putting the sword to the sideboard
what do you guys think about it, specially about the crusader??

Mirran Crusader is awesome.
Ok, he can dying fast, but the thought he can be 1 round there ( maybe with a sword ) = epic because of double trigger sword. + prot black and green ( but green is shit^^ ) i'm actually playing him instead of serra avenger because i try to play SfM or jitte in turn 2 and avenger cant be there in turn 2. And i dont have luck with my vial every game in my start hand :P

But test it pls and show me/us your results. Thanks.

K1w1

well till now i allways loved serra avanger and i would never want to cut him, ....him being a flyer helps a lot with sword triggers and racing opponent thanks to vigiliance

but i will definitely test mirran crusader, but probably in place of the oblivion rings, ... i really like the sword of feast and famine, it gives a lot of tempo by untapping your lands again, and making opponent discard is not bad either

right now i have little to no time for testings,.... the last 2 exams for this year at university are coming and i have to learn..... but as soon as i got time i will test crusader

Well, Serra Avenger is awesome, too. But i wouldnt cut oblivion ring. Because of this:
a. Play Oblivion Ring.
b. When he came into the game EtB effect goes on the stack of Oblivion Ring.
c. In response to the EtB effect, activate the Aether Vial and brings into play a Flickerwisp.
d. When he came into the game, which goes from Flickerwisp EtB effect on the stack, you are aiming at the Oblivion Ring.
e. Oblivion ring is removed from the game and the corresponding "When Oblivion Ring leaves play ..."- effect goes on the stack. Because the effect has EtB away but still nothing, nothing happens.
f. The effect of Oblivion Ring Etb removes the targeted card.
g. At the end of your turn Oblivion Ring comes again into play.
h. The new EtB effect of Oblivion ring removes the targeted card.

So, you can exile 2 cards in 1. I really like it, because some are thinking:"That will never happen" but i got it really often.

I really don't know what to cut for Serra Avenger.
Thinking,thinking,thinking... i dont know...
What would you cut except of O-ring?

i am well aware of the applications of oblivion ring, but your example how to exile two permanents with flickerwisp, how often does that happen, .... out of a 100 games i only used that trick about 3 times, so i think it is very conditional
obviously it is awesome he can remove a emrakul from game

i am thinking that i am running 3 right now, so i thought of cutting all of em for the 2 mirran crusader and the 4th mangara, since i think mangara is way stronger than oblivion ring, specially with vial out, and of course a karakas
and of course the threat of a mangara lock often forces the opponent to remove him, allmost allways making mangara a 2 for 1 even without karakas

i think the mangara lock is far stronger than the conditional remove-two-permanents-application of oblivion ring

the other option i thought about cutting for the 2 mirran crusader were 1 oblivion ring and 1 sword of choice (probably feast and famine.... at least in my list)
i think the rest of the cards is too important but i could see going a 3/3 split with serra avanger and crusader but i would never go under 3 serra avanger, since he is one of the most aggressive creatures we have

did you ever drop 2 serra avanger at once?, the face of the opponent in that case is just awesome

in your case/list i would probably cut the following cards for serra avanger:

1x jötun (depends on meta)
1x oblivion ring (i do not think he is strong enough to deserve 3 slots)
1x mirran crusader / 1x flickerwisp (whichever you prefer)

in that case you will have room for 3 serra avanger, and still keep 3-4 flickerwisp and 3-4 mirran crusader

i have to admit a am a big fan of 3-offs to make room for other stuff

Yeah, i did.
But do you ever dropped 2 crusader at once? in the same round like avenger (T3)

I'm a fan of 3-offs too but you really has to play the good cards as 4-offs. There is no chance to cut them in my opinion, or you cut them to 0. But a 3/3 split sounds nice.
Ehm in 100 games i think 25 games with o-ring + flickerwisp.
and this is 1/4 from all. Ok 2 o-rings are enough too.

So, i would change this!

-1 ring
-1 revoker ( 3 are enough for me / 1 sideboard )
-1 crusader
+3 avenger
and i have a 3/3 split

K1w1

that sounds quite nice, though i have to say i really love the playset of revokers main, because they are usefull in every matchup and give outs to so many annoying things, jace, EE, deed, just to mention a few

as soon as i got some time and get the cards i will test crusader as a 2 off and 3 off, the 4th mangara cutting all oblivion rings,..... but as soon as i miss them the probably will go back in as a 2-off.... otherwise i will obviously share all my thoughts on the changings i am about to make (a few thoughts on mangara were allready posted earlier^^)

ah right,.... what is everyones thoughts on batterskull,.... worth an inclusion?, i have seen a lot of deadguy lists run him and allmost every other deck packing stoneforge mystic
do we need him as well or are we fine with the protection-swords and jitte?

Quote:

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Ehm in 100 games i think 25 games with o-ring + flickerwisp.
and this is 1/4 from all. Ok 2 o-rings are enough too.

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i am a bit surprised on how often this trick worked for u, would you say it depends on the opponent you are playing that you can pull of this trick far more regularly than i am able to (meaning if slower opponent = easier).....
when i see the trick on my hand it often happened to me that i was under pressure and did not wait/couldn't, would you reccomend sitting it out to be able to pull the trick, is it worth waiting for the bigger impact in the field?

Ok, i think 3off revoker are enough, but this is metachoice. In some decks (for example gate, ichorid) it isnt worth to play revoker. ( my 2 cents)

Batterscull is a nice card, i think i will try it.

o-ring trick:
vs.
discard = negative
counter = negative
rest = positive

Its easy to play against decks without discard and counter.

i am still a bit sceptical about batterskull.... well probably because of his high mana cost,.... sure you can cheat him in play with stoneforge but if stoneforge gets killed you're screwed, i think this combo is too conditional as well (but powerfull), and i do not like conditional things at all^^

but thanks on your thoughts about oblivion ring.... now i am assured a bit, to take them out for a while^^


This site requires proper grammar, punctuation, capitalization, and sentence structure. Also, spell your words correctly. Please change your posting habits.
-4eak

sorry, english is not my first language, but i will try to improve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AggroSteve

i am still a bit sceptical about batterskull.... well probably because of his high mana cost,.... sure you can cheat him in play with stoneforge but if stoneforge gets killed you're screwed, i think this combo is too conditional as well (but powerfull), and i do not like conditional things at all^^

but thanks on your thoughts about oblivion ring.... now i am assured a bit, to take them out for a while^^

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If only there were some way to protect a SFM...

The only deck I can imagine running SFM that wouldn't run Batterskull is Zoo because the decks Batterskull is good against, Zoo is already good against. Otherwise, if you're running SFM and not Batterskull, you're probably making a mistake. Especially when you're already running MoR.

CorpT, the blue decks with Batterskull are using it as a primary wincon. D&T is full of them. That alone is not sufficient argument against Batterskull. But it does mean that D&T wins plenty of games sans Mystic and equipment. So the design has no search. There is no way to cycle the Batterskull back in if you draw it unwantedly. Also, we don't have counters to protect the Mystic. Mom is a substitute, but not as plentiful.

I have tried it. I never found myself tutoring for it. It was dead in my hand w/out an active Mystic. I always had other, more attractive wincons.

Wrong deck.

At first, I didn't like Batterskull so much. My mind has slowly changed. I'm finding more and more that it is a good target off a t2 or t3 (especially off Vial) SFM. It is also a late-game house. I'm in favor of the card.


peace,
4eak

What u guys think of this new m12 dude?

Grand Abolisher WW

During your turn your opponents cant cast spells or activate abilities of artifacts creatures and enchantments

2/2


Does this fit the deck?

sideboard maybe

we got better stuff in mainboard, but i have to say he is quite nice

As long as Zoo does not come out as a real beneficiary of the heavy blue metagame, I will likely prune some of my less disruptive aggro guys for Abolisher testing and probably Oblivion Rings.

I've tested it on mws against a friend and having the opponent top tap out on his turn to kill him just so u blink it out of play gives u that time walk feeling.dont know if it's worth the slots on md,but he sure feels cute

I have been testing batterskull with main deck mental misstep and it has proven to beneficial. It allows us to protect are vial or mom, etc. One big thing about MM is that it allows us to put even more taxes on them when we port them and counter their one drops. More testing is required but so far I have been have success with batterskull and MM in the same deck in D&T.

Hello,
I've tested the grand abolisher and for me it deserves alot in the main atleast for me build. As for the deck build its not your traditional DT build. Currently when the deck doesn't curve out its slow as hell and could be easily overrun by faster decks.

The deck im still currently testing and tweaking is as follow..

Lands [22]
4 rishadan port
3 wasteland
2 flagstones of trokair
3 karakas
10 plains

Spells [14]
4 aether vial
4 swords to plowshares
1 umezawa's jitte
1 sword of fire and ice
1 sword of light and shadow
3 cataclysm

Creatures [24]
4 mother of runes
2 phyrexian revoker
3 stoneforge mystic
3 grand abolisher
4 serra avenger
3 mirran crusader
3 kitchen finks
2 mangara of corondor

Some initial notes on testing
• sols if preferred over batterskull as recursion and pro white is very important after cataclysm.
• flickerwisp is removed in favor of mirran sader and kitchen finks.., bec of the following reasons:
• mirran can deal with bigger green dudes like kotr or tarmo
• finks can live after cata and helps in against fast aggro decks and can surely hold an equipment against decks that don't run rfg spells.
• wisp has lots of tricks and can save permanents on your side when you cast cata but i feel that mirran and finks hold much more value overall.

Creatures I've been considering to lighten the curve
• jotun grunt - sadly only useful after cata you cant cast him early on
• epochrasite - is good when vialed in and is good with cata aswell but without vial is kinda crappy
• ethersworn canonist - just for stalling purposes only so you don't get overrun by faster decks.
• safehold elite - 2/2 persist
• knight of white orchid - a solid 2/2 1st striker and helps you early on to build the mana you need, im sure DT players knows that DT is a very mana hungry deck, and can help you develop mana after cata assuming your opponent drops a 2nd land and you can vial him out.

for now thats all, hoping to get some advice and suggestions.

thanks in advance

I am liking your build have you test misstep. It feeds your Grunts usable protects you a bit against combo, protects your vial for misstep etc. other wise I like your build I like crusader as a choice or flickerwisp in my meta because batterskull is so prominent. What is your meta?

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Originally Posted by timmycolossus

I am liking your build have you test misstep. It feeds your Grunts usable protects you a bit against combo, protects your vial for misstep etc. other wise I like your build I like crusader as a choice or flickerwisp in my meta because batterskull is so prominent. What is your meta?

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hello,
thanks, i forgot to post my sb, but i run misstep on my sideboard. here is my sb list

sideboard [15]
3 mental misstep
1 enlightened tutor
2 tormods crypt
3 ethersworn canonist
1 kitchen finks
2 burrenton forge-tender
1 path to exile
2 oblivion ring

As for the meta in our place, its around 50% aggro decks, 40% blue control decks, 8% combo and 2% random decks