Read the coverage. Looks like the singleton spirit is good for a blowout once in awhile :cool:
I'm guessing that the Crusaders weren't needed, or that BUG is already a decent matchup with Revoker and Rest in Peace?
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Read the coverage. Looks like the singleton spirit is good for a blowout once in awhile :cool:
I'm guessing that the Crusaders weren't needed, or that BUG is already a decent matchup with Revoker and Rest in Peace?
These cards are not 4-ofs. There is no guarantee that you will ever see any of them, so overlap is a good idea.
Which cards?Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Played in a small local tournament with 28 players, and made top 8. Second time playing the deck.
11 Plains
3 Karakas
4 Port
4 Wasteland
1 Canopy
4 Vial
4 StP
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire & Ice
4 Mom
4 Thalia
4 Revoker
4 Stoneforge
3 Flickerwisp
3 Serra Avenger
2 Mindcensor
2 Crusader
Sideboard:
2 RIP
2 Canonist
2 Liege
2 O-Ring
1 Cataclysm
1 Manriki-Gusari
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Pithing Needle
1 Cage
1 Path to Exile
My matches:
Round 1 UWR Delver - Win 2-0
Round 2 Food Chain Griffins - Lose 0-2
Round 3 Burn - Win 2-1
Round 4 Sneak Show - Win 2-0
Round 5 Oops, All Spells - Draw, but we play it out and I lose 0-2
Top 8 Round 1 vs. Elves - Lose 1-2
Sideboarded incorrectly against Elves, having never played against it. Game 1 I stall long enough to win with Jitte, despite him GSZ'ing for Ruric. Revoker named Heritage Druid - thanks to this thread, I remembered and it was funny asking him for the card name since they were all Chinese. Had to pull up Gatherer so I could "name" it. Game 2 he wins with a quick Natural Order into Progenitus, I curse myself for not running Council's Judgment. And in Game 3, when I had the Aven Mindcensor in response to his Natural Order, he still found a fatty in the top 4 cards. Must be nice to run well...
Deck felt extremely tight and fun to play. Playing with an active Vial felt like cheating. I can see why opponents want to shut it down right away. Even Elves brought in Pithing Needle for it, curiously enough. My sideboard wasn't optimal, could have used some more enlightened tutors for consistency. Lots of fun all around.
I'm just wondering against what the Leonin Arbiter/Ghost Quarter build excels against?
I'm currently building a variety of anti-decks and wonder if it has any match-ups where you absolutely crush your opponents, compared to the normal variant.
Tempo, I imagine. More than just RUG; any kind of Tempo probably hates Arbiter. Deathblade, too, especially those without basics. Combo probably finds him annoying too, especially ElvesQuote:
Originally Posted by Barook
I won't touch the Elves match-up with a ten-foot pole, no matter the D&T build.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
I imagine the game vs Sneak & Show gets even more loop-sided than it already is. Probably Reanimator, too.
But it would be nice to have someone comment who has more experience with the build.
True, I'm just speculating. I played with the card back before Thalia, but those were different times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
With Miracles showing up in large numbers I want to make sure I have a fantastic chance against it this weekend for SCG Syracuse. I know we have a decent matchup already with revokers, and after sideboard has anyone ever tried Ghostway? Seems like if it resolves it would more than likely be lights out for Miracles. I really expect to face Miracles a couple times on Sunday and would like to make sure those rounds are wins! What are our thoughts?
I've played the ghost quarter build quite a bit. I would say it is better vs combo and contol, but worse vs aggro and aggro control. Leonin helps greatly for deck with veteran explorer / GSZ / KoTR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Unfortunately, Leonin hurts our own stoneforge, making our aggro match worse.
Why Ghostway? Just to negate a terminus?Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmankevinx
You can play 1 cavern of souls and 2 cataclism on the sideboard, resolve one of this is GG, and vs miracles I like the mindcensor, if the have not top, or we named it with revocer they can only use the terminus in their turn, so just play mindcensor EOT and continue punching!
And what about the Spirit of the Labyrint? Vs miracles seems good, and that 3 power its a reasonable clock i think
Regards :D
I've been brewing a bit of a specialized D&T list. One more aimed at squishing BUGs and bullying control:
BUGHUNTER D&T
3 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
10 Snow-Covered Plains
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Flickerwisp
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Mangara of Corondor
2 Aven Mindcensor
Sideboard
3 Rest in Peace
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Council's Judgment
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Path to Exile
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
I may go back to the Tutor board for more combo-oriented hate; the list has be absolutely savage so far.
Off topic discussion: anyone else really sick of seeing only decks with Delver or Brainstorm in them? Not to flame but I'd like to see some ANT, MUD or something completely rogue just smash a tournament.
Yes. I would love to see more storm in the top 8's. I would love to see some rogue deck wreck a tourny too. The mono red sneak attack deck seemed really cool. I owuld also like to see the UW standstill deck become a thing(http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckd...p?DeckID=69142)Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
I love Brimaz vs BUG and control decks, u can protect him with karakas for the removal, and It puts lot of pressure with the tokens (that are very good vs liliana and edict effects)
And I never tryed Mangara, is good?
Regards:D
Hey everyone,
I have this deck built in paper and I am unsure whether I would like to take Painter or DnT to the NJ GP in November. However, I don't play as much Legacy as I would like. To ensure that I could play this at a GP and not embarass myself, I have been considering buying into this deck online.
Is there any reason why this deck is SEVERELY under-represented online? Is it just the costs of Ports that keep people away? Is the meta hostile to DnT? Any insight here would be great.
Thanks!
Hey hey!Quote:
Originally Posted by cab0747
I started to play this deck a few days, and I readed a lot, and watched a lot of videos (Sam Pardee, Thomas Enelvolsen etc...) and really, it a insane powerfull deck, the hate now its hard, toxid deluge, golgari charm, sometimes zealous persecution etc..., but this year D&T won a lot of scg, and get very good positions on a big tournaments, I like painter too, and u will get lot of free wins thanks to the blood moons, but I prefer D&T
The reason than people arent playing it on modo its cause the rishadan + wasteland its arround 800-900 tix so...
And when I saw Bahra_ playing it, he gets easy 3-1 or 4-0 on each DE
Regards^^
You are going to see some hate. That should be a given. But then all top decks are going to be hated on some. Just play smart and you can minimize the effectiveness of your opponent's hate. Let me clarify that some.
Death and Taxes wants an environment absent of any kind of card advantage. That is, everything from Hymn to Tourach to Fact or Fiction to Wrath of God is bad for this deck. Your only defense against Hymn and FoF are to prevent them from casting the spells. But board sweepers like Wrath, Toxic Deluge, etc. can be managed better simply by managing your resources carefully. Don't overcommit to the board if you have the game in hand and you can scrape out a free win often enough to make a difference. Keep Karakas untapped. Weigh the advantages of flickering a permanent out of the way of the sweeper at the cost of the Wisp. Lots of this kind of thing.
Question for the community. What do you do about "Dread of Night"? In my meta both Storm and now Jund is running it and it very difficult to over come. O-Ring/Council's Judgment seems too slow and the only time I can win game 2 and 3 (more so against storm) is if they don't draw it. The several storm players play multiple copies (I think 3) and always seem to have both when I play Canonist. Game 1 is always a sure fire victory (excluding the standard bad draw, mana flood, mana starve, etc.). Any advice would be very much appreciated. Also, Charbeltcher... how do you beat that Deck? I was thinking of a 1 of silence sideboard and cast it while they are going off before they cast the kill spell. I also figured it can interrupt Elves and Storm. Thoughts? I know that Thalia, Ethersworn Canonist and Revoker should do it. However, they go off before I can even get those duders on the field.
Firstly, there is no better plan vs any Storm variant than "stick a Thalia/Canonist/Revoker @ LED." If you want some turn one interaction, play some number of Judge's Familiar or Chalice of the Void @ zero. However, expect your other matchups to suffer and your overall consistency to go down. And, as far as a singleton silence goes, you're looking at a Christmasland scenario if you expect to have it with any regularity.Quote:
Originally Posted by DudeItsCorey
If you want to beat Dread, I think the only real solutions beyond Judgment/Oring/Chalice, is to bring in some kind of buff (Honor of the Pure, Spear of Heliod, Veteran Armorer), plays something like Disenchant/Abolish, or run Enlightened Tutor so that you see your Canonist with greater regularity. Also, for that same reason (Dread of Night) you always grab Sword of Fire and Ice first. Slapping it on a Thalia is usually gg as -6 life a turn makes their ad nauseums terrible.
I want to see your list, however. D&T is a deck where questions like "should I play X card" cannot be considered in a vacuum.
I feel it would be good if we had a section on the common hate cards brought in against us as well (in addition to revamping the matchups section and a section on unconventional card choices.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
For instance we expect dread of night from storm (can't think what other decks run it)
Golgari charm from bug
Sulfur elemental from rug
Pyroclasm from s&t
Etc
Plague from Blade decks & Toxic Deluge from a lot of decks are also relevent SB cards against us.Quote:
Originally Posted by movingtonewao
Is there an up-to-date sideboarding list anywhere for this deck? I've recently started to play it, but I am afraid some of my decisions are incorrect.
Thanks!
WHat are your main and current sideboard?Quote:
Originally Posted by cab0747
There are 2 schools : with or without tutor board.
which decks tend to run plague/toxic deluge?Quote:
Originally Posted by Manipulato
I'm seeing more dread of night and golgari charms actually.
Also havent seen massacre and virtue ruin in awhile, they seems like a blowout, but looks like no decks run them.
I haven't gotten too far into the deck yet. I am running a stock list with the tutor board:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylert
Main:
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Serra Avenger
3 Flickerwisp
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Mother of Runes
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Cavern of Souls
10 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
Sideboard:
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Council's Judgment
1 Cataclysm
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pithing needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Ghost Quarter
Sidebaord is still kind of up in the air (which is why I am asking if there is any sideboard advice). I would like to add 2 Wilt-Leaf Liege as well.
I would recommend first that you play Mangara; the card is crazy good. I'd cut Mindcensor for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by cab0747
Secondly, I'd drop O ring, Cataclysm and GQ for 2 Liege and 1 CoP: Red or Warmth. Oring isn't needed now with Judgment, GQ is better in the main and Cataclysm is a durdly card that Miracles players sandbag Force of Will for.
Thanks for the suggestions! I would agree that GQ has been just OK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
Do you think I should be taking out both Mindcensors (which have been very 'meh') for 2 Mangara?
Yes, very much so. Mindcensor, if it sticks, is an inefficient body with an avoidable tax that has very little impact on the board; Mangara is also an inefficient body but if he sticks, you usually win.Quote:
Originally Posted by cab0747
Hi there buddies!!
Im new with this deck (no more than 1 month xD) and I have the typical sideboard problem, my question is not about how to build my sideboard, its about whose are the worse cards in each pairing (the more important ones obv)
So if someone can told me (or said me where can i find it) you´ll help me a lot^^
Thanks for all and sorry for my bad english
Have a good day^^
Cutting Cataclysm is not a good suggestion in my opinion. Cataclysm is very good against Miracles, which is the top deck right now, and it happens to also crush decks like Lands, Nic Fit, Enchantress, 12 post and more. Sure most miracle players keep in FoW because of cataclysm, but they usually end up spending the FoW on Vial or Thalia/Mangara, so Cataclysm is still very good most of the time. I would never cut it. I do agree with the rest of what you're saying, and I also completely cut mindcensor a while ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
I still only see Cataclysm as a solid answer to Miracles; while the other decks are hurt (lands) or wiped out completely by it (nic fit), they are very rare. It's more of a metagame call, I think, but at an Open I just feel like we should have cards with broader application. I have always been lukewarm to the card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahra
In other news, I have a weekly column over at Win Target Game. It's D&T focused but I'm sure other Legacy topics will come up from time to time. The first article is a general introduction to the deck.
Here it is, if anyone would like to check it out (I'd of course love to hear your opinions!): http://wintargetgame.net/enlightened...y-death-taxes/
Hi, guys, forgive me if I post in the wrong thread.
I am wondering if Death and Taxes splashing black would be a viable idea? Perhaps we can have access to Bob, Tidehollow Sculler or Zealous Persecution or even discard.
Is there any sample list?
Thanks in advance!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
What is your board plan against miracles then? There's so much miracles right now that Cataclysm is a mandatory inclusion.
My board plan is: -4x Swords to Plowshares -1x Umezawa's Jitte +1 Enlightened Tutor +1 Ratchet Bomb +1 Pithing Needle +2 Cataclysm. That way I have no dead cards which Swords to Plowshares basically is in that match up, even if they board in Stoneforge Mystic + Batterskull.
-4 StP, -1 Jitte, -1 SFM. +2 Canonist, +2 Judgment, +1 Spirit, +1 Needle. I have considered dropping my Crusaders for the Tutors, but nullifying a draw step by a countered tutor target seems like a bad situation.
Hmmm. I'd be interested to hear why you board out a Stoneforge Mystic, do you not play Sword of Fire and Ice? Ethersworn Canonist seems very bad to board in since it basically doesn't disrupt them at all (if they play well) and it trades with Snapcaster Mage (and then they get to flashback something).Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
Getting your tutor target countered is of course very bad, but usually you get Pithing Needle or Ratchet Bomb and those are very strong cards in the match up. I've won several games by tutoring for Ratchet Bomb after my opponent has cast Entreat the Angels.
Canonist is actually quite good; Miracles does a lot of cantripping and landing a Canonist early can slow them down enough to tilt things in your favor. Her disruption is minimal, sure, but crapping on SCM is definitely a good thing. And, yes, I understand that they can trade with Canonist and StP something else; I don't see how it is much of a counter to bringing Canonist in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahra
Of course I run Sword of Fire and Ice. But I trimmed a Jitte and, since we should be playing more aggressive against Miracles, the fourth copy seems redundant. Mangara is the only other card that doesn't have an aggressive P/T that I could cut; that's obviously a bad idea, though.
Again, it doesn't count for shit if the tutored card is "strong in the matchup"--it never resolved. Tutor is for the fair and combo matches; against Tempo and Control it is just not as solid an answer.
Cutting a Stoneforge Mystic is nothing but wrong if you're running Sword of Fire and Ice, how does Canonist "crap" on Snapcaster Mage if they just block it? Sword of Fire and Ice is the best card in the match up and Stoneforge is way way stronger than Canonist for example. Miracles doesn't do a lot of cantripping, they play out a top and then sometimes they ponder or brainstorm, but they rarely play more than 1 card a turn, so bringing in Grizzly Bear instead of Stoneforge Mystic seems very wrong. And you don't necessarily need to be aggressive against Miracles, you're a control deck as much as they are, you just need to make them not blow you out with Terminus and you're good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
And where do you get this idea that your enlightened tutor target always gets countered? That's simply not true. Miracles has a ton of stuff they need to Force of Will (Thalia, Æther Vial, Cataclysm, Mangara and sometimes even Stoneforge Mystic).
I've seen it done on 1 or 2 lists. I too am curious about users here who have tried it or even goldfished. My initial take on the deck is replacing the Mindcensor/Mangara/Brimaz/Flickerwisp "flex" slots with Confidants and possibly Sculler. But then I'm confused about the manabase. I think a non-green 2 color DnT needs to mesh Caverns, Wastes, and Rishadans together with a few fetchlands/basics.Quote:
Originally Posted by entreri_fans
Alternatively, you can just run a stock W list with an extra Cavern or two for "humans" so Confidant can be played sans vial.
Let me clarify: Canonist craps on Snapcaster's ETB. Yes I know they can block it, but if you are playing the game right anyway they shouldn't have a target with said StP. A Brainstorm could be a concern I suppose, but the Snapcaster speed bump will come up if you attack with a Revoker or Stoneforge as well. Canonist provides an extra body and a decent tax; against a deck with as much creature kill as Miracles, extra attacks is what we need.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahra
They don't need to counter Thalia. She's annoying, yes, but she doesn't shut them out like she does vs RUG or Storm. The others are correct, however.
As far as SFM is concerned, you still draw into her enough of the time. I don't consider Batterskull or SoFI essential to winning the Miracles matchup and she's the slowest card in the deck. But if it bugs you so much, I can shave a Mother of Runes instead.
You cannot be the better control deck vs Miracles. You are the beat down, you want the game to end quick, since their late game is usually superior.
I'm not saying it's always countered. Where are you getting that idea? I'm saying getting 2-for-1ed AND losing a draw step is something I want to avoid. And, when in an actual game, you may find yourself tutoring on the first turn; they may very well FoW your turn-two play.
EDIT: @Warden: I agree, running something like 2-3 Caverns seems better than fetches and duals. A creature package like so seems like something I'd do for the B splash:
4 Mom
4 Thalia
4 Bob
3 Revoker
4 SFM
2 Sculler
2 Mangara
3 Crusader
My concern with the B splash is mostly a question of how to keep the deck functional.