My preferred bad list additions:
Delver of Secrets
Deathrite Shaman
True Name Nemesis
Leovold of Trest
Every single card with the "Storm" mechanic on it
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My preferred bad list additions:
Delver of Secrets
Deathrite Shaman
True Name Nemesis
Leovold of Trest
Every single card with the "Storm" mechanic on it
As far as I know, nobody is claiming Czech is anywhere near as hard to beat as SDT Miracles in its prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
In the last 6 months, we've seen Elves in DTB twice, A Stage/Depths deck three times, and a Stompy deck every time. Also, from what I hear Miracles is favoured since the (re)addition of Couterbalance. SDT Miracles didn't have bad matches like this consistently performing so well against the field. Nothing like it.
There is no slippery slope. You could argue that Miracles had insufficient predators. No such case can be made for Czech (edit - unless you are only considering "fair" decks).
Good God yes, I am sick of being killed by Sprouting Vines.Quote:
Originally Posted by morgan_coke
You laugh now, but one day Valakut Storm will be as feared as Nourishing Lich.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Can we keep Wing Shards?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
So 4c/Grixis has an already worrying ~21% meta share (according to mtgtop8) and now a 62,5% share in the GP Top8?!
And I thought that Miracles was disgustingly overperforming at it's prime...
Can we start bitching about the deck only after its been top dog for a few years? Seems to be the precedent.
Given DRS was already a force during Miracles reign, I guess it takes only 2 more years and/or a sign on WotCs parking lot. I mark July 2020 im my calendar then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
I ran the numbers from tcdecks data back when people called for Miracles to get nerfed, and on average Miracles put around 1 pilot in top 8 per event listed in tcdecks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
The multicolor Deathrite value shell (for lack of a better term) has absolutely obliterated Miracles' performance. But don't worry, it's perfectly all right and there's nothing wrong with the format.
It’s always a treat when Lemnear and ubernostrum say what I was going to say before I do.
Most 4c Leovold run 0 Wastelands, some 2 but that is the minority and they will run into mana issues quite often. Even with 0 Wastes you often run into mana issues but in Lemnear Black/White world that never happens of course...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
But no lie is to far fetched for Lemnear to make his point.
Attack the argument, not the person.
Grixis Delver runs Wasteland. Czech Pile can run Blood Moon.Quote:
Originally Posted by MorphBerlin
A counterargument I’ve seen to Grixis Delver decks specifically is that they fold to Blood Moon. Sure, but many decks fold to Blood Moon. And that’s assuming you can catch Grixis Delver with its pants down aka no floating mana no active DRS (for that Decay) no countermagic. At which point if that’s the boardstate then Blood Moon is a nail in the coffin more so than a “I win” button, like it is against many other decks.
Pls show me where I talked specifically about "4c Leovold", could you? I am quite sure I made my points about the resiliancy/stability in regards to the wide range of Wasteland+DRS+Blue Shell decks from Grixis to 4c (which can be tempo or midrange variants itself).Quote:
Originally Posted by MorphBerlin
It's outright cherrypicking to call me out on a specific variant or an individual decision of players to trim Wastelands. We know that 3-4 colors with DRS and Wastelands do quite well. Where am I so wrong that it deserves another personal attack?
You talked about 20 lands with 4 Wastelands, Pile plays 20 lands 0 Wastes typically. Grixis Delver runs 18 lands 4 Wastelands typically. So you mushed these together to cherrypick for you point. Pile has much harder mana requirments (Jace, K.Command, Leo, Hymn) thats why you see an adapted mana base. Yes these decks are more resilient to mana denial because of DRS. That doesn't mean they don't loose to Bloodmoon, double waste, waste+port+thalia all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
4c Plays blood moon? I haven't seen anybody do that recently (with sucess). Grixis Pyro can afford to play Bloodmoon but not pile.
I’m going to hate myself for this in the morning, but I have to know...don’t all of these DRS decks also play Brainstorm, and then lots of other decks also play Brainstorm too? No judgments here atm. I just want to get a feel for this line of argument that DRS has to go. How exactly is it more ubiquitous than Sir Ubiquitous himself?
I see what you’re getting at, truly I do, but my response is pillar of the format.
Interestingly, in this last GP's top-8, every BS deck also ran DRS. Obviously that's not representative of the meta, but a fun fact nonetheless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
To answer your question, (and I assume you are new to this thread?), it is not about ubiquity of individual cards. Its about strategic diversity.
(eg) Storm, S&T, and Miracles are distinct decks, and don't contribute to a diversity problem. The biggest threat to diversity in Legacy ATM is the abundance of DRS fair "good-stuff" decks. Yes, they all run BS, but DRS might be a better card to axe if the goal is to curb that specific play-style. Other BS decks don't really enter the conversation if we are focused on strategic diversity.
Elves and mavericks/nic fit/G-valuedecks play DRS and usually 21-22 lands and not 4 colors nor 4 wastelands.
It's BS that allow those stupid 4 color decks to play 18 lands with 4 wastes, find their fetch to fuel their DRS, and generally draw 3 aftering countering your shit with FoWs early on.
Ban BS unban top best format. Miracle got killed for this shit.
Yeah Finn, who are you? Do you even Magic?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead