All B/R update speculation.

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Originally Posted by Dzra

I was very much against the banning of Survival when it happened, but looking back, I can see how GW Survival was basically the threat density and toolbox of GW with the explosiveness of a Dredge deck. That GW has gotten even better since the banning, I really doubt that they could unban Survival unless they unbanned Mystical Tutor with it.

As for Mystical, I'm a mixed bag. It basically makes Storm and Reanimator an unwinnable MU for non-Blue decks. I think that while some MUs are favorable, I'd prefer the metagame to stay away from a clearcut Rock, Paper, Scissors environment.

Personally, I think a good solution might be to unban Survival of the Fittest, Mystical Tutor, and Mental Misstep. Let combo regain some of their consistency via Mystical to help keep Survival in check and let all decks have a good answer to Mystical Tutor (and Entomb, Dark Ritual, and the whole host of other combo-enabling 1-drops).

The only problem is that Mental Misstep would have some fallout with non-combo decks. Goblins is already dead on its own, so that's not so much a concern anymore. Mother of Runes would instantly get a bit worse. Nimble Mongoose probably gets hurt (although RUG decks would definitely pick Misstep up in a heart beat). Targeted discard becomes more unreliable.

It'd be interesting to see the meta if these three were to be unbanned.

GW would lose some steam due to Misstep and Mystical, but would pickup Survival (and Missteps of their own post-board).

Storm and Reanimator would get a lot more consistent due to Mystical, but players would have more ways to fight them with Misstep.

RUG is very vulnerable to Misstep, but at the same time, can utilize it very well. Natural Order becomes an option again.

UW Stoneblade has more answers to fight combo and GW's early game, but would have to fight against a superior late game engine in Survival. UWB Stoneblade loses the punch of its targeted discard.

Fish gains a lot from Misstep, but likely still can't fight Survival (and Batterskull).

Dredge and Burn lose ground on all fronts.

Hymn is the go-to discard choice again.

It'd be interesting to say the least.

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The can't just unban Mental Misstep while Snapcaster Mages are in the format.

The idea of playing against Reanimator with Mystical Tutor and Mental Misstep is not very appealing. Those unbans would speed the format way up.

1) Combo decks that play Mystical Tutor and Mental Misstep. (Reanimator)
2) Combo decks that dodge Mental Misstep but play Mystical Tutor. (an adapted Storm variant, S&T/Hive Mind)
3) Combo decks that chain Survival of the Fittest to combo out on you, or plan B Vengevine fireball you.
4) Misstep-playing tempo decks looking to disrupt the combo decks and beat down.

I don't think the by-products of this kind of metagame are going to be very good. Legacy is the format that best skirts the line between degenerate (to the point of being kind to the broken linears because they tend not to dominate) and fair decks. There's no need to upset that balance much, at least from an objective standpoint (though if someone in the DCI was to dartboard Dread Return I wouldn't weep any tears, but that's not being objective ).

A general question: If the DCI is owned by WotC, a company who ignores eternal formats when designing new cards - resulting in some unfair and unfun interactions, why does the DCI regulate the eternal formats? Isn't it something like taxation without representation? I mean why should they regulate it when legacy is nearly off their radar? Furthermore, why should WotC care if the format were unfun? Wouldn't they want a deck to be unfun, resulting in a decline in legacy's popularity? It all seems like a waste of energy if legacy doesn't make WotC money like standard.

Misstep slows the format way down. Mystical makes combo faster and much more consistent. Survival speeds up Green decks and gives them a lot more options and consistency.

The thing is that Misstep and Mystical were never in the same format, so who knows what that would look like? Surgical Extraction (+ Snapcaster) never existed while Survival was around either.

I think eventually WotC will wise up and realize that Legacy is their Eternal format. Formats like Extended (old and new) and Modern are only ever going to be PTQ formats. Vintage is a mess. They can easily support Legacy as a format and make money doing it. Scavenging Ooze is a prime example. There's also no reason they can't reprint Wasteland and Force of Will in Standard or come up with some decent alternatives to dual lands. Just make a cycle of "m10 duals" that are fetchable. Problem solved.

Unban MT, MMS, SoTF, and Goblin Recruiter all at the same time. I promise it will be ok.

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

Unban MT, MMS, SoTF, and Goblin Recruiter all at the same time. I promise it will be ok.

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For some reason, I agree with this.

Throw in Earthcraft there too.

And if you wanna get ballsy, maybe Memory Jar.

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Originally Posted by (nameless one)

For some reason, I agree with this.

Throw in Earthcraft there too.

And if you wanna get ballsy, maybe Memory Jar.

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Ditto. And other things that won't matter but need to be unbanned as to not make the format look stupid like Tax, Twist, Vise, etc. Oh and Dragon. This format is starting to look fun again. :D

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Originally Posted by hyperchord24

A general question: If the DCI is owned by WotC, a company who ignores eternal formats when designing new cards - resulting in some unfair and unfun interactions, why does the DCI regulate the eternal formats? Isn't it something like taxation without representation? I mean why should they regulate it when legacy is nearly off their radar? Furthermore, why should WotC care if the format were unfun? Wouldn't they want a deck to be unfun, resulting in a decline in legacy's popularity? It all seems like a waste of energy if legacy doesn't make WotC money like standard.

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WotC does test for Eternal formats when designing new cards, but they're not very good at it (partly because it's a difficult task--just check the misguided opinions on these forums every time a new set comes out--and partly because they don't put enough effort into it).

We abide by their banned and restricted list because it's convenient to have one official body release all the banned and restricted lists. Their opinions might not be perfect, but I'd rather play with this current format than some retarded community-polled monstrosity in which Oath of Druids is unbanned while Brainstorm and GSZ are banned.

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Originally Posted by (nameless one)

For some reason, I agree with this.

Throw in Earthcraft there too.

And if you wanna get ballsy, maybe Memory Jar.

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I'd probably hold off on the Memory Jar. Earthcraft is completely fine as well. Hell, it might make Elves tier 1 for once!

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

Unban MT, MMS, SoTF, and Goblin Recruiter all at the same time. I promise it will be ok.

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If blue gets Mental Misstep, I want Mind's Desire. Otherwise, completely ok with this list.

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Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar

If blue gets Mental Misstep, I want Mind's Desire. Otherwise, completely ok with this list.

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We've had already a format with MM.
Time to try a new broken toy, like Tolarian Academy :cool: (with no Jewerly and no Vault/Crypt i doubt it would split the format apart, and it fuel artifact decks without making 1st turn trinisphere any more possible than it already is. In fact i already have a list or two arounds with it in that are crazy fun, while not really good).

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Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar

If blue gets Mental Misstep, I want Mind's Desire. Otherwise, completely ok with this list.

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Fair. Lets try Mind's Desire as well. I'd rather experiment and then ban rather than let the cards sit and rot in the banned list. FFS, isn't Ad Nauseam better than Mind's Desire? Lower CMC, easier colors, guaranteed draws? Am I correct?

We'll cross that bridge if anything needs to be re-banned.

I love me some Mind's Desire with LED/BWish tricks. Even Belcher gets to play this shit.

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

Fair. Lets try Mind's Desire as well. I'd rather experiment and then ban rather than let the cards sit and rot in the banned list. FFS, isn't Ad Nauseam better than Mind's Desire? Lower CMC, easier colors, guaranteed draws? Am I correct?

We'll cross that bridge if anything needs to be re-banned.

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Desire is basically an uncounterable, usually better time spiral. And is just another boring Storm card.
There are other combo cards that are more interesting like Bargain, Earthcraft, Dragon, hell, even things like Skullclamp (elf combo), Windfall or Hermit Druid (hello gutshot everywhere).

Hell to the no on Skullclamp. That card would be absolutely busted and the format would probably devolve into who gets it online first. At least other busted banned draw spells (e.g. Gush) aren't re-useable.

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Originally Posted by Gheizen64

We've had already a format with MM.
Time to try a new broken toy, like Tolarian Academy :cool: (with no Jewerly and no Vault/Crypt i doubt it would split the format apart, and it fuel artifact decks without making 1st turn trinisphere any more possible than it already is. In fact i already have a list or two arounds with it in that are crazy fun, while not really good).

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If 4 academy in a deck were legal I wonder what the cost would go up to... :eek:

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Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar

If blue gets Mental Misstep, I want Mind's Desire. Otherwise, completely ok with this list.

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Still having MM nightmares? It's gone man, chill.

When is the next announcement anyway? I can never remember when they are.

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Originally Posted by dahcmai

When is the next announcement anyway? I can never remember when they are.

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It's the 20th of every third month. So the next one is on June 20

God dam it can we have another poll now please? How long have people been asking for this now?