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SDT is against discard heavy decks and assists finding Decays after a resolved Counterbalance (given you drop if fast enough). Flusterstorm is simply for slowing down combo decks which are faster than you like TES, Belcher or S&TQuote:
Originally Posted by KevinH
Currently my board looks like:
3 Dread of Night
2 Pyroclasm
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Carpet of Flowers
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Empty the Warrens
3 Xantid Swarm
Any suggestions as to how I should be tweaking this to the current metagame?
play EtW mainboard or not at all. It's pointless to board in if opponents usually board in stuff like Electrickery, Zealous Persecution or Explosives just because of the danger of Goblins.Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH
I feel like I'm only ever bringing in ETW against Daze decks anyways, and I'm not really worried about Electrickery or Persecution coming from those decks, especially now that Pyromancer is going to get less popular. Right?
So what? TNN is going to return and we knew how last years spring-metagame looked like to deal with the Meerfolk. Boarding the card at the same time your opponent bring in hate for it doesn't make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH
Jona and all, about this list, do you think that grinding station is a reasonable plan vs UWR decks (that board in mage, RIP and some flusterstorms/rebs)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jona
Is this a reasonable side out/in in this case?
- 4 LED
- BWish
- Chrome
- 2 AN
+ 2 Tendrils
+ 2 CoV
+ Top
+ swamp
+ ETW
+ Abrupt decay
So I've been VERY disappointed by ad nauseam lately, so m uch so that I'm considering moving it to the sideboard to bring in vs decks that don't pressure your life total in the slightest, and having an empty in the main instead. Opinions?
This came up quite a few times already and is a valid approachQuote:
Originally Posted by Narcind
Went 2-2 last night at my LGS' FNM Legacy (Sanctioned Legacy FTW) playing the Grinding Station list I have been using for a while.
Round 1: 12 Post
"I have no idea what you are playing...some kind of Grixis list?"
I played it safe by fetching basics until I knew there were no Wastelands. Beat him pretty easily 2-0
Round 2: Miracles
Could not fight through permission to get stuff going g1 or g2. 0-2
Round 3: Jund
Opponent made some mistakes in picking things to discard off Thoughtseizes and after losing g1 by not drawing into any tutors I killed him with Ad Nauseum chains both times. 2-1
Round 4: Death and Taxes
Won g1 when he conceded after I created 14 goblins naturally. Locked me out with Thalia, Revoker, Canonist g2 and I missed a turn 3 Ad Nauseum kill from 18 life when it didn't occur to me to petal + cast ritual into Ad Nauseum in response to him porting a land. Oh well
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Yeah, I suppose. Though, to be honest the only case I can think of where I want ETW and they would be bringing in a -1/-1 card would be Golgari Charm out of BUG Delver. I really don't think Zealous Persecution or Electrickery are relevant. I don't see myself boarding ETW in against Persecution decks, and I don't really forsee anyone playing Electrickery.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Deathblade plays Persecution; Shardless plays Toxic Deluge; Team America/BUG Tempo plays Golgari Charm ... I Don't see why you want to turn on their removal instead of turning all those into dead draws. EtW is a nice MB option to catch people off-guard without bothering yourself with Ad Nauseam which is pretty unimpressive in ANT at times, while postboard you can Reverse the whole approach and turn their removal blank while you gain time by that to setup PIF or AN (potentially from the board)Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH
I'm not contesting the fact that decks are playing -1/-1 effects. I'm just saying that they're not in the majority of decks where it would be relevant. Am I correct in thinking that ETW is best against the Daze/Spell Pierce strategies where just a small storm count early on can win the game? Basically, ETW is just for Delver decks, except for maybe BUG Delver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Went today 2-2 at an event. Beating miracles 2-0, 4 color pod 2-0, loosing to infect and a really nightmare of a deck green white zenith with black and red.
He played, knight, wastelands, library, veteran explorer, therapys, deathrite, oozes and tegg.
With a sb of 2-4 massacre games, null rod, and dures + thoughtseize.
Even if i could have won if I got a littl lucky, like drawing a discard or a led in some situations. Was a nightmare of matchup.
Vs miracles i boarded in 3 decay, 2 grip, 2 xantid, 2nd tendrills. Worked well. Even if i resolved nauseam few times. But had to pass thousand turns to win later. We played 5 games with sb. And I won all.
Also vs pod I had a hand of cabal, nauseam, fetch, 2 brainstorm. And 2 lands fetch in play. I eot bs. He notions me!!!! I respond with bs. Leaving a hand of cabal, nauseam, duress and draw usea to have double black. While he is tapped.
Dures, cabal, nauseam. Gg
Its nice nauseam is not draw :D
Reporting back like I said I would on how Death Wish has been performing for me. Went 2-1-1 the other night with it.
Round One: UWR Stoneblade without Delver, I don't know what to call this deck (no CT or SDT, uses Dig and Monastery Mentor). I play discard for the first couple of turns, but he is always drawing permission after permission while beating me down with double Batterskull. Game two was much the same, except that this time he had Ethersworn Canonist and Meddling Mage turn two and three respectively. Deathwish was cast once in game two to grab Massacre, but with Canonist in play it's too late.
Round Two: Infect. Game one he only has a Daze to stop me, which he misplays and ends up just adding storm for me. Death Wish was only used to showboat and go nuts with tons of storm count adding up. Game two he deals 10 infect damage on turn two. Game three I probe turn one and he doesn't have FoW, I Ad Nauseum and Tendrils for lethal.
Round Three: UWR Stoneblade, very similar from what I can tell to my round one opponent. Game one I rip his hand apart with discard and go for the PiF loop. Game two he has Meddling Mage and Monastery Mentor pumping out Monks for beatdown while holding me down with counter magic in hand. Game three was a funny one as he had TNN, Meddling Mage (naming Tendrils of Agony), and SFM (no Batterskull as I discarded it turn after he tutored for it). I am at 3 life, and draw Death Wish. I cast it for Massacre and reset the board. We play draw go for a few turns while he attempts to rip a Lightning Bolt from the top. Eventually I get there while he draws nothing but cantrips for 3 turns straight.
Round Four: Intentional draw and split because it was getting late.
All in all, Death Wish was okay, but not incredible. In every case that I drew it or cast it, I thought to myself that a Grim Tutor would have been just as good. It wasn't necessarily bad, but not ground shaking either. Some more testing with it will be coming soon.
I think you'd be able to force a draw (tie) or win against Notion Thief if Ad Nauseam said draw: you just repeat it indefinitely until they run out of cards, then they would lose as a state-based action when either player receives priority. If your top card is a 1-cc or greater, you likely also would lose due to having 0 or fewer life, but if your top card is 0-cc, you would never lose life when repeating Ad Nauseam and since Notion Thief would never let you draw a card, the top of your deck never changes. It would be all upside against Notion Thief! :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
Played 6 rounds of Legacy today, list pretty much like Togores but with minor changes in SB.
R1) vs Burn 2-1 (1-0-0)
G1 - This was actually very close, I got down to 1 life before going to an Pif win.
SB: -2 Sensei's Divining Top, +1 Tendrils of Agony, +1 Chain of Vapor
G2 - I Ad Nauseam down to 8 with 4 duals in play... didn't see Price of Progress coming...
G3 - Bought myself some time with first Tendrils, then played the second one for the win (Could not Pif because of Tormod's Crypt)
R2) vs ANT (wee, mirrormatch) 2-0 (2-0-0)
Both games was close, but I think I had the advantage due to more experience with the deck.
SB: -2 Sensei's Divining Top, -1 Bayoi, +2 Flusterstorm, +1 Tendrils of Agony
R3) vs Bant 2-1 (3-0-0)
G1 - Early win with ANT
SB: -2 Lotus Petal-, 1 Preordain, -2 Sensei's Divining Top, +1 Massacre, +2 Carpet of Flowers, +1 Chain of Vapor, +1 Tendrils of Agony (I think...)
G2 - He mulled to 5 but still got there... my draws was terrible and I took a gamble on keeping an sub-par hand...
G3 - He had Meddling Mage (on tutor) and Stoneforge in play with some eqGuipment in hand. Massacre + Therapy and we went into topdeck mode with alot of cards in the yard. I drew Pif.
R4) vs Jund 2-0 (4-0-0)
G1 - Opening hand on the play: Delta, Ritual, Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Therapy, Ponder, Ad Nauseam... :-)
SB: -4 Cabal Therapy, -1 Ad Nauseam, +1 Entreat the Angels, +3 Abrupt Decay, +1 Chain of Vapor
G2 - He had Goyf, Liliana and Deathrite in play, I had Sensei's Divining Top. On my turn I played Ponder... didn't shuffle, 3 LED, 1 Lotus Petal and passed the turn... When he attacked I activated Top, sacced 3 LED and Petal in response and got myself 8 4/4 Angels... he didn't see that one coming.
R5/semi) vs Imperial Painter 2-1 (5-0-0)
G1 - I have lost the notes of this match, but I somewhat recall dealing 20 damage fairly quickly
SB: -2 Sensei's Divining Top, +1 Rebuild, +1 Chain of Vapor
G2 - Blood Moon got there...
G3 - Therapied a double Blood Moon on turn 1, I went for the win the turn before he could go off.
R6/final vs Miracles 2-0 (6-0-0)
G1 - I knew what he was on, so navigated my way around counterspells and clique, it worked.
SB: -1 Preordain, -2 Lotus Petal, -2 Cabal Ritual, -2 Cabal Therapy, -1 Swamp, +3 Abrupt Decay, +2 Xantid Swarm, +2 Carpet of Flowers, +1 Entreat the Angels
G2 - This was a grindy grindy game going back and forth. Abrupt Decay took care of Counterbalance, Sensei's Divining Top helped me with the draws, Xantid Swarm baited a counterspell then Carpet of Flowers allowed me to play around his softcounter for the win.
All in all a good feeling, but I see that some of my plays are not optimal (need more focus and more competive experience), but luckily I see much more errors in my opponents play (especially post sideboarding). It seems this deck may be just as hard to play against as it is to pilot... I was happy with my SB (got to use all cards in 6 rounds) and maindeck worked fine also, perhaps 2 Top is a bit much (slow) but with my Entreat tech I don't think I can cut it right now.
Yeah sometimes 2nd sensei is really good. Sometimes its slow. Depends on matchups.
Also i think u side not enought answers vs eidolon. I also side in decays. Dont wanna loose cold to that card.
Do you board in both chain of vapor and decay? Just asking, because I always fear to dilute too much my deck if I bring in also decay, so I just board 3 chains.Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
@Rokkastut: Entreat the Angels is nice, can I ask you what are the match-ups you bring it in? Is it good against Team America? Don't you fear Terminus and EE when you board it vs. Miracles? Thanks :smile:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghiwo
I think that Rodrigo brings Decays against Burn. On the other hand, I like having 3 Chain of Vapor against them. Paired with Cabal Therapy this should be enough to deal with Eidolon. The probability of Burn drawing Eidolon is low because they don't have tutor or extra draw effects.
You don't dilute the deck if you throw out the Duress' which do not have target of value anyways and replace those with removal for the Eidolons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghiwo
Entreat is bullshit. Why would you splash white if you have the on-color man-plan in Pyromancer or EtW at hand? Because you believe YOU can grind out Miracles with THEIR OWN tech?