[Deck] 43 Lands

Haters gonna hate. Nothing can be done, except Wasteland/Ghost Quarter them out. If people cop an attitude with me when I play, I'll purposely, once the game is unloseable of course, Ghost Quarter all of their lands away and sit there like a derp until 1 Creeping Tar Pit in 7 turns will kill them and then take the full 3 minutes allowed to de-sideboard and shuffle. Homie don't play; if I can sit through a year of RUG Delver mirrors and Sneak Attack Decks, you can handle 35 minutes of Life From the Loam.

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Originally Posted by Go_Gaels

My favorite one from scg Atlanta was when in round three I was seated next to brad Nelson and he told me that "players like me are what makes him hate legacy as a format. Because lands players just sit there, do nothing, and ruin everyone's tournament experience."

Whatever bro.

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Heh, after SCG KC he told me that he hated me for playing that deck. To be fair, there are no dumb big animals in lands, so I can see why he doesn't like it.

Actually we do have big dumb "animals", does creeping tar pit count?

played the red list today, for giggles. after a handfull of games on cocktatrice, crushing randoms, i took it to small local event.


Punishing fire was kinda meh i thought. Certainly playing 4 grove is correct, a couple of times i killed something with fire, but couldnt return it due to missing grove and felt slightly dissapointed.

oblivion stone, at least as a sideboard card makes sense imo. in certain matchups, I missed it.

went 2-2, losing to miracles (silly draws, he actually outramped me, despite my exploration) and reanimator. Beating ANT (2-0 wtf) and Death/Taxes (blowout win).

will be playing it more to get a feel for it. I feel like its radically different in its approach. I played 2x maindeck EE and liked it quite alot. When they both got surgically extracted from my graveyard, i hated it.

I pondering wether maindeck wurm harvest is correct to stall and/or swing tempo. I like the card, and its the only card we could have that swings the tempo (even making 4, then 5 tokens is massive).


edit: all above pertains to the grove/punishing fire versions.

I'm torn between E Tutors and Raven's Crimes:

Enlightened Tutor
Dredge
Sneak & Show
Merfolk
RUG Delver
Shardless BUG
Elves
Zombies
Junk
Reanimator
Painter
Goblins

Raven's Crime
UWR Delver
ANT
12 Post
Esper Stoneblade
TES
Charbelcher
UW Miracles
Omni Tell
UR Delver
High Tide

In my opinion (and I don't want this to turn into an argument), I think Punishing Fire builds are trash, which put a lot more emphasis on our graveyards, and is only good against Deathrite Shaman. With all the different archetypes, I feel that its not worth running PF just to stop 4 Decks in the format (which it is not a guarantee anyways). Above is the list of what I think is better against which deck. Any recommendations (cutbert, Phelix)?

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Originally Posted by OneBigSquirrelGod

snip

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I guess i'll chip in, as i don't belive Punishing fire is bad. It's good in any sort of grindy matchup. Also, i believe it's definitely possible to play raven's crime and punishing fire. With enlightened tutor i had a very hard time beating deathrite shaman (in a BUG Delver list). I always felt like i was in the game, but their draws can just crush your's and spesifically if they know how to play.

Is it really impossible to play both enlightened tutor and raven's crime if you are dead set on playing those cards though?

nothing is impossible, but im not sure ravens crime is the way to go right now. I think it was something people playing in combo and control metas, but perhaps my personal preference shines through here. I always considered it underwhelming.


on punishing fires - I think its the best possible answer to deathrite. and also does good work game 1 vs liliana. If your meta is deathrite heavy, its a pretty good solution.

I think i prefer shifting to 2 maindeck EE and not playing fires, but its based ony my meta, where there is less deathrite shaman.

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Originally Posted by Phelix

nothing is impossible, but im not sure ravens crime is the way to go right now. I think it was something people playing in combo and control metas, but perhaps my personal preference shines through here. I always considered it underwhelming.

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But isn't that today's meta? DRS decks + combo seems to be the flavour of the last three months

just edited my previous post.

my local meta is not DRS heavy.

also, the red lists dont play bojuka bog. I think its time to play 1 main.

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Originally Posted by OneBigSquirrelGod

I'm torn between E Tutors and Raven's Crimes:

Enlightened Tutor
Dredge
Sneak & Show
Merfolk
RUG Delver
Shardless BUG
Elves
Zombies
Junk
Reanimator
Painter
Goblins

Raven's Crime
UWR Delver
ANT
12 Post
Esper Stoneblade
TES
Charbelcher
UW Miracles
Omni Tell
UR Delver
High Tide

In my opinion (and I don't want this to turn into an argument), I think Punishing Fire builds are trash, which put a lot more emphasis on our graveyards, and is only good against Deathrite Shaman. With all the different archetypes, I feel that its not worth running PF just to stop 4 Decks in the format (which it is not a guarantee anyways). Above is the list of what I think is better against which deck. Any recommendations (cutbert, Phelix)?

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I think PFire gives you a better edge against decks you shouldnt be losing like any Tempo deck. I max out my deck against aggro/control decks and leave my SB against combo. I didnt test Enlightened Tutor that much, I just dont like it, but I really miss Thalia. I really like Raven's crime is a monster against Control decks, but I think is TOO slow against Combo. So using 3-slots for a card which is VERY mana-demanding against a MU we usually win, is just a win+. At least we have plenty of choices with Lands and everyone should I just pick up the one it fits better for them. Ive been playing PFires for months and I havent regret.


I start playing cockatrice a few days ago (i used to play only in real tournaments here) and it is very good for practicing. I always lose against combo decks G1, and it is normal.... what is not normal for me is losing againts a tempo deck cause he's playing Shaman. I also have a better chance against Elves and Jace's decks.

I think your argument against enlightened tutor is a bit funny :)

dont you think that playing more EE would improve many of those same matchups, while giving us options vs control and their annoying enchantments.

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Originally Posted by Phelix

just edited my previous post.

my local meta is not DRS heavy.

also, the red lists dont play bojuka bog. I think its time to play 1 main.

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I think two EE is just great.... because playing just 1 sometimes it's too slow. If your meta is not DRS-Heavy, two EE is just enough.


In my opinion, DRS has been a curse and a bless for Lands Deck... it totally wrecks our deck, but at least it took out KOTR and many combo decks (hymn to tourach, thoughtseize, etc). Any DRS deck plays Abrupt decay which took out plenty of RIP combos deck, and plays a lot of discard taking care of combos and DRS shrinks KOTR.

I think I'd prefer Enlightened Tutor to Raven's Crime right now because the Intuition plan is mediocre against Deathrite, at least the Tutor lists have a way to efficiently search for bullets while the Crime lists don't really have an alternative tutor plan to Intuition. I do think that Fires is better than people are giving it credit for; the matchups where it's good used to be our best matchups, but deathrite and decay have changed how those matchups play out and Fires plays around the hate cards that they have pretty well.

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Originally Posted by OneBigSquirrelGod

I'm torn between E Tutors and Raven's Crimes:

Enlightened Tutor
Dredge
Sneak & Show
Merfolk
RUG Delver
Shardless BUG
Elves
Zombies
Junk
Reanimator
Painter
Goblins

Raven's Crime
UWR Delver
ANT
12 Post
Esper Stoneblade
TES
Charbelcher
UW Miracles
Omni Tell
UR Delver
High Tide

In my opinion (and I don't want this to turn into an argument), I think Punishing Fire builds are trash, which put a lot more emphasis on our graveyards, and is only good against Deathrite Shaman. With all the different archetypes, I feel that its not worth running PF just to stop 4 Decks in the format (which it is not a guarantee anyways). Above is the list of what I think is better against which deck. Any recommendations (cutbert, Phelix)?

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If you're dead set on not playing fires, I've been a big fan of playing a version with 3x intuition, 3x tutor and 1x ravens crime. I think that in the matchups where ravens crime shines you're really going to want to board in all of the chalices and trinispheres/Thalias (with the exception of some of the slower control decks where we're just trying to keep them off jace mana). In those matchups having tutor to go get the chalice can be huge. It lets you keep a wider variety of openers and makes you more resiliant against discard. I can't tell you how many games against storm where I've gotten therapied/duressed on turn one only to flip a hand of tutor + chalice. Additionally against these decks if you left in intuition once you've slowed them down with chalice you can always intuition for the crime to keep them from drawing out of the soft lock. Try out one crime and three tutor and see how it feels.

Overall I prefer the tutor version to the punishing fire version, but in Atlanta I knew there was going to be drs all over the place and its the only out we had that doesn't die to abrupt decay.

Good luck in Cincinnati this weekend!

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Originally Posted by KntrellCL

I really miss Thalia

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I do too and I was thinking about it: why not switch red for white post board by putting a Savannah and some Thalias in your SB?

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Originally Posted by Anen

I do too and I was thinking about it: why not switch red for white post board by putting a Savannah and some Thalias in your SB?

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It's already hard enough to cut cards from the SB, let alone adding a dual land to it.

I've played against DRS A lot, and just like Scaveging Ooze, you just have to play around it. I find Cabal Pit is a Miracle Worker for the Main Deck.

@Phelix - I added a 2nd Explosives after Detroit and never looked back. There are too many scenarios where I've killed Rest in Peace, and then been able to kill another one, or something else. I'd almost run 3 (which I have before. It's like an ultimate Removal spot.. ) but there is nowhere to fit it now.

I am going to run E tutor this weekend (I think)... And maybe 1 Crime as well. I just need to find something to cut.

4 Loam
4 Exploration
1 Manabond
3 Intuition
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Mox Diamond
2 EE
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Zuran Orb
1 Ensnaring bridge
1 Cursed Totem

Manabond comes to mind, but I hate not having more acceleration. 5 doesn't seem to ever get there... Big fan of 6. Ravens crime just shuts JtMS down. I've never beat that card without it (or O Stone/EE). I have considered 1 Torpor Orb in the SB. Very good against elves and goblins hate for us. Just a thought...

You can cut O-Stone, since is your slowest card in the deck. Some player are playing Cabal Pit against DRS, but I dont like to play cards which needs any kind of conditions to work well, especially with ******** (DRS again). How many untapped G sources are you playing? Cause Red version is not only about PFires, it also fix the clunky manabase.

id probably cut or side the cursed totem. sylvan library, when paired with enlightened tutor is my preference. It gives us alot more versatility, as well as a way to find solutions to everything, and it ignores DRS.

I think I'm going to run Nethervoid in the SB over trinisphere. Seems legit. Cannot be abrupt decay'd.. But decay can get through it. Seems like a good idea. And totem shuts off a lot of cards, including DRS. I'll MD it all day. Still may change a few cards, still up in the air... And I love O Stone... I couldn't cut that.. Crucible would be cut first.

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Originally Posted by OneBigSquirrelGod

I think I'm going to run Nethervoid in the SB over trinisphere. Seems legit. Cannot be abrupt decay'd.. But decay can get through it. Seems like a good idea. And totem shuts off a lot of cards, including DRS. I'll MD it all day. Still may change a few cards, still up in the air... And I love O Stone... I couldn't cut that.. Crucible would be cut first.

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I am not sure you will me able to reliably drop Nether Void before it becomes irrelevant to the game. I mean as cool as it is (and I used to run The Abyss in Land for a time) it is a 4 mana enchantment..