[Deck] Merfolk

I just wanted to address "lowering the threat count thanks to STP + BS".

Brainstorm: Replaces Stifle at the same mana cost. The difference between the two being that Stifle is sometimes only good in the early game, but it's explosive there, and Brainstorm tends to be good no matter when you draw it. No threat count lowering.

STP: Essentially replaces Echoing Truth, which served primarily to remove blockers, though doubled to remove massive amounts of tokens as well. At the second, STP is ineffective. At the first, it's much better. Once again, no threat count lowering.

Brainstorm *does* slow your explosiveness a bit, but is also awesome in the lategame. STP, minus the lifegain, essentially increases your explosiveness as compared to echoing truth.

Also, when I'm splashing, I tend to make room in the deck for 3x *other*, where other could be echoing or stifle. This can be easily done with -1 BS, -1 STP -1 Daze/Silvergill. All these configurations still run 4x Standstill, which in my opinion is just too good to remove.

The one major thing splashing does is increase your nonbasic hate susceptibility. This can be a problem if your opponent is both running nonbasic hate and you can't get a vial online due to either artifact hate or bad draws. Fortunately, BS smooths out the second a bit. Let's face it, without vial, while splashing, through hate, the UU required for Lord is hard to hit.

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I'm pretty sure splashing another color or playing Brainstorms are all mistakes. Merfolk is supposed to explode in your opponent's face. Brainstorming =/= exploding; it often takes away another turn. In fact; Merfolk wants to tap out and use all its resources to kill quick.

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Yes, you have the idea.

@Taco, of course I am not saying that adding Brainstorm makes the deck less consistent. I am saying that adding another color makes the deck less consistently have the best possible start.

Unlike Threshold, Merfolk has to start disrupting on turn 1. And it has to continue to land threats in rapid succession after that rather than protecting the ones it has. The biggest problem I have with that plan is the mana spent on the spell. I was ready to go into a diatribe on this topic, but instead I would take it to its natural conclusion of also adding Ponder. The deck might look like this:

(19)
1 Island
4 Tundra
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
2 Mutavault

(25)
3 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Standstill
3 Stifle
4 Aether Vial

(16)
4 Lord of Atlantis
3 Merrow Reejerey
4 Cursecatcher
3 Silvergill Adept
2 Wakethrasher

I cut 3 creatures, 1 land, and 3 defensive spells to make room for 7 search cards. You will get to see about a bajillion cards. But it will also be a bit slower. And the sb options will be nifty also.

I have to admit that I like the way it looks more than I thought I would. I just avoided cutting the cards that affect the first couple of turns (except for a single Stifle). But it also plays no removal of any sort. I do think that Standstill is a bit less effective though. Since you have to topdeck important cards while it is out, and I have cut an important land.

You do realize you have 8 fetches with 5 lands to fetch with them... Not a good idea. You also only have 1 basic island, should that be relevant (dragonstompy!).

The fact is this deck never requires double white, so having 12 ways to get single white seems excessive to me. I might do the following:

3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
3 Island
4 Wasteland
2 Mutavault

I might even drop 4 Tundra to 3 and run 4 basic Islands. Either way, I've found 6 fetch to 8 lands to be the correct ratio in most decks I've used.

EDIT: I'd also definitely consider STP maindeck. Why ponder? Wouldn't you rather have access to STP? You still should be drawing enough threats.

@Skeggi: Extract in sideboard? Very interesting. What's your argument for this?

Well, whatever, Tivadar. I don't like having only 10 white sources. But these are the sorts of problems we would be incurring if we go this route.

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Originally Posted by Skeggi

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4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Cursecatcher
3 Wake Thrasher
2 Sower of Temptation

4 Aether Vial

4 Force of Will
4 Daze

4 Standstill
2 Back to Basics

4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
13 Island

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Sideboard:

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3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Pithing Needle
2 Extract
3 Annul
2 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Submerge
1 Back to Basics

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In general I'm very happy with the deck. I really wouldn't do anything stupid with it, like adding Brainstorms or Fetches. Or splash another color. Because you have to think what you can get out of white: anti-combo tech and creature removal. We have that already in blue. We have counters and we'd rather steal the creatures than remove them. What use is green? Tarmogoyf? We already have Wake Thrasher. Krosan Grip? Running Annuls is better than screwing your manabase. Red? I see no sense in running red. Black for Thoughtseize? It's nice to know what your opponent is playing, but certainly this isn't worth the splash to screw your manabase again.

Point of the matter about splashes is: next to the fact that they aren't useful; it negates your opportunity to run Back to Basics.

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Interesting list, Skeggster. In my opinion, main-decking Back to Basics is one of the more interesting trends with the deck that I've spotted recently on the interwebs, and two seems like it would be the correct number to main-deck in order to go this route.

I have a couple questions:

1.) I, like Tacosnape, am a little curious over the Extracts in the sideboard: Which match-ups did you put those in for specifically? Did you end up using them to good effect during the tournament? I can see some of the potential uses: taking away a copy of Tendrils from Storm, taking a 'Goyf from CounterTop/Baseruption/Thresh/Whatever-the-fuck-people-call-it-these-days, taking away a Pernicious Deed or Explosives, etc... Not to mention that it's a nice little bonus that you can scope out your opponent's sideboard plan against you and make some sort of plans to deal with their bombs.

On the other hand, it's a strictly one-for-one trade, and it's not even guaranteed to produce an effective trade: you only remove one card, and what's worse, your opponent may never end up getting to the point in their deck where they would have drawn the card that you removed. Compare Extract to Extirpate for a second, even though Extirpate is off-color and obviously not worth splashing for in this deck.

My philosophy with this deck is to try to focus on having effective plays for the whole of the game's opening, limiting my opponent's tempo while trying to establish board presence, so that by the time I get to the mid-game, I'm in a position to try to close as soon as possible. Extract doesn't really fit in line with this philosophy: hypothetically, let's say you play it on your third turn: you're removing one card which your opponent basically had a 1/50 chance of drawing next turn (excluding deck manipulation, which is obviously a factor.) Not only have you done something that's not guaranteed to be a productive play, you have to expend the resources of one card and one mana to do it.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but I would be tempted to nix Extract, since it eats your early game tempo and it seems a little like a waste of sideboard slots, but I'm curious how it worked out for you. Please, tell us more about this one.

2.) Sower of Temptation: How did it work out? Were you able to get up to four lands and/or four counters on Vial often enough to get it out? Were you glad you main-decked it? Did she swing any games in your favor? I would absolutely *love* to hear on authority that Sower is a viable option for this deck.

3.) Back to Basics in the main-deck: I definitely see why this is good. On the other hand, did running four Mutavaults ever get in the way of Back to Basics? Did you ever find B2B just sitting dead in your hand in Game One? (Because obviously it just doesn't work that well in some match-ups...) I <33 Back to Basics, but I would worry about packing four Mutavaults in a build where I ran it in the main-deck.

4.) Submerge: I've heard the arguments for it, and the ones against it. It seems a little limited to me honestly, but as someone who's played successfully using it, I'd like to hear your opinion.

*********Anyhow, congrats on your finish. "Go Team Merfolk!!!!" (sorry, Venture Brothers dork-out moment)

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Originally Posted by Finn

(19)
1 Island
4 Tundra
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
2 Mutavault

(25)
3 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Standstill
3 Stifle
4 Aether Vial

(16)
4 Lord of Atlantis
3 Merrow Reejerey
4 Cursecatcher
3 Silvergill Adept
2 Wakethrasher

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Why the Tundras if you don't have any white cards?

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Originally Posted by rukcus

Why the Tundras if you don't have any white cards?

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I think his hypothetical white cards are in the sideboard... Although I've always used 3-4 Swords to Plowshares in the main when I've tried the white splash, which I would definitely recommend if you splash white. I wouldn't be so quick to discount the White splash as everyone has been recently in this thread. It tested pretty well for me over all when I was trying it (back when I had access to a PC to run MWS on... damn screwy Macs)

Honestly, I was this close to shilling out for Tundras and Flooded Strands back when I was testing it on MWS, but I don't want to spend the scrilla until I can put more testing into it.

Just for reference, here are the cards I like in the White splash:

-StP: this is the number one reason for the splash, in my opinion.
-Meddling Mage
-Orim's Chant
-Ethersworn Canonist

-Jotun Grunt is decent in several match-ups, but not really all that impressive. He suxors as graveyard hate, and he really only shines in attrition match-ups where both graves are going to be full and you want to have a non-tribal 4/4 on the ground. Pretty rare scenario
-most other stuff, like the enchantment that gives all creatures pro red, etc, just seem a little too cute.

...Anyhow

The neat thing about Back to Basics is the synergy with Merrow Reejerey's untap trigger. Meaning you actually have a way to get your Mutavaults back under a Back to Basics.

That said, I have no idea if I like this maindecked or not. I think I'd rather have something along the lines of Relic or Jitte main and B2B in the board.

I've tried using back to basics main board, my reasons for using it was to serve as a mini geddon mostly my meta uses island thus its like geddon in blue. For multi-colored decks its okay but for mono or mirror it kinda sucs...

As for the sower... im guessing he hards-cast it or vial it in if needed. I haven't tried sower but i think its a tech card or surprise card. I have control magic in my SB since i don't own any sowers. Normally merfolks have early board position over your oppent and when your opponent drops a fatty your suddenly stalled or wait for your lord to make your creatures fatter to combat the fatty droped by your opponent a single rhox war monk would give you head aches already...

Sower can act as a jitte if your using it as a creature removal.

As for the extract its interesting on how did it work... i think adding countermagic is almost the same and has more versatility but im guessing he uses extract to view his/her opponents deck SB plans like the one posted above rather than for its actual ability...

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Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght

1.) I, like Tacosnape, am a little curious over the Extracts in the sideboard: Which match-ups did you put those in for specifically? Did you end up using them to good effect during the tournament?

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The Extracts were purely against ANT. We (Team ADHD who all played the same list at the tournament) were going to a meta where we knew a certain list of ANT was played. A list that only has 1 Tendrils and 1 Ad Nauseum maindeck. This list was played 8 times at the tournament, so we were right about that. The only time I sided in the Extracts was in the semi-final against ANT, and I didn't even have to use them. Game 1 I beat his face with a few Cursecatchers which eventually got sacrificed to prevent him from going off, and Game 2 (he knew I had Extract) he wanted to go off turn 1 "Let's see if you have FoW" he said. Well, I did :wink:. Another teammate of mine did get to use Extract against ANT, but the ANT player had both Ad Nauseum and Tendrils in his hand, so the Extract missed, haha. So basically: Extract was a meta call. In testing it helped out really well, but we just didn't run into a situation where we needed it or where it was useful at the tournament.

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Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght

Compare Extract to Extirpate for a second, even though Extirpate is off-color and obviously not worth splashing for in this deck.

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The obvious problem with Extirpate is that your opponent needs a useful card in his graveyard already. I can tell you, by the time ANT has either Ad Nauseum or Tendrils of Agony in his graveyard, it's too late :tongue:.

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Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght

Just playing devil's advocate here, but I would be tempted to nix Extract, since it eats your early game tempo and it seems a little like a waste of sideboard slots, but I'm curious how it worked out for you. Please, tell us more about this one.

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If you have a meta where there are few combo decks that are depending on 1 card in their entire list, Extract is useless. So you're probably completely right in your meta :smile:.

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Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght

2.) Sower of Temptation: How did it work out? Were you able to get up to four lands and/or four counters on Vial often enough to get it out? Were you glad you main-decked it? Did she swing any games in your favor? I would absolutely *love* to hear on authority that Sower is a viable option for this deck.

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I totally and utterly am in love with Sower of Temptation. Getting a Vial at 4 isn't that hard when you're beating face with Merfolk; often you get into a standstill when an opposing Tarmogoyf or Tombstalker can swing for lethal damage. Mere taking away the blocker is a purpose for Sower of Temptation. But the cases where Sower of Temptation actually lives and you can keep the Goyf/Stalker/Coatl are always winning games. I have yet to lose a game with a resolved Sower of Temptation that actually stole a Goyf and lives. The main problem with Sower of Temptation is that it usually gets killed. But otherwise, your Lord of Atlantis or Merrow Reejerey would have kicked the bucket. Sower is a big threat and your opponent has to deal with it.

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Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght

3.) Back to Basics in the main-deck: I definitely see why this is good. On the other hand, did running four Mutavaults ever get in the way of Back to Basics? Did you ever find B2B just sitting dead in your hand in Game One? (Because obviously it just doesn't work that well in some match-ups...) I <33 Back to Basics, but I would worry about packing four Mutavaults in a build where I ran it in the main-deck.

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Yes Mutavaults got stopped by Back to Basics, but that's not the reason why I lost. Ever. The reason why I lost to Landstill was, for instance, game 2 I kept drawing land and game 3 I kept drawing Dazes (Plus the fact that I had a good opponent didn't help either :wink:. He's known on this forum as Elf_Ascetic). I did draw some threats, but not so much he couldn't deal with it. Back to Basics was pretty useless in the tournament, but that's mainly because of the match-ups I got. Most of them had enough basics to ignore B2B. But the fact is, that B2B stops another deck that's pretty big in my meta, and basically our worst nightmare: Domain Zoo. This deck is so extremely strong. With so much removal and undercosted creatures, it really slaughters Merfolk. Forget Goblins, Domain Zoo is worse. Where you can counter the Vial and grow your Merfolk bigger than Goblins, Zoo just keeps on punching. But Domain Zoo has 1 big weakness: the entire manabase exists of nonbasic lands. You can see why Back to Basics comes in handy. You can immagine it works against a great deal of other good decks too. It stops that stupid Volrath's Stronghold or Academy Ruins from recurring nasty stuff. Even though Back to Basics didn't help me at the tournament, I'm still a big fan. I also believe 2 is the correct number maindeck, and 1 in the sideboard.

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Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght

4.) Submerge: I've heard the arguments for it, and the ones against it. It seems a little limited to me honestly, but as someone who's played successfully using it, I'd like to hear your opinion.

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Submerge is so good, it makes me cry a bit. It fits so well in the "We are Merfolk, we tap out and punch you in the face while we do it"-theme. If it wasn't for meta-call Extract I'd run 3 Submerge (and a 1-of Sower of Temptation) in the sideboard. The only match-up I encountered where I needed it was against UGr Thresh, and did I need it. If it wasn't to Submerge away a Goyf or Coatl while he went fetching, it was to save my Lord of Atlantis from certain death. Keeping Islandwalk against these sorts of decks is huge. Two of my teammates played a similar list in a 70+ player tournament the 7th of June where they ended up 2nd and 4th. The 2nd place lost to ANT (by Team Nijmegen; the guy who is known on this forum as mateml) in the finals, so you can see our trauma. Here is a decklist and a report in Dutch about that tournament. That was a tournament where Back to Basics and Submerge made the big difference and got both players into the top8. The deck is so strong, when they met in the 4th round (out of 7) they could afford to ID.

I must give props to my teammates for the list though. It's not like I designed the entire thing myself. In fact, the entire maindeck comes from 1 other teammate (in fact, you can see the maindeck from the decks on the 7th of June were exactly the same). But we all saw it was so strong we didn't have to change it a bit. The sideboard was a team-effort after alot of testing and analyzing the meta.

If you're running Extract, why not just run my sixth favorite card ever, Rootwater Thief?

Also, is Sower really better than Threads?

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Originally Posted by KrzyMoose

If you're running Extract, why not just run my sixth favorite card ever, Rootwater Thief?

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Because ANT can easily go off turn 2 or 3.

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Originally Posted by KrzyMoose

Also, is Sower really better than Threads?

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Depends on the situation. If you want to steal that Tombstalker or Lorescale Quotl, I'd say, yes, Sower is alot better :tongue:. And you can't Vial a Threads. Don't get me wrong, I love Threads, it's just more situational than Sower. But I still have 2 Threads in my sideboard.

But isn't taking a smaller guy more relevant? Like, if your worst matchup is Zoo, Threads seems a lot better.

I see in your report you used Back to basics as a weapon against Canadian Threshold?

It surprises me. They seem to be un-mana-screwable. And they have rebs.

I tend to have some problems with the matchup, they go all the way with a goose after bolting, firing, red elemental blasting, pyroclasming my creatures while I sit on threads/sower for the goyf they never drop.

B2b, I never even considered that? Does it improves this matchup?

I have a rather simple question for you Merfolk-pilots: What are Merfolk's bad matchups?
Thanks in advance.

I kind of thought Extract was a metagame call against something. Just wasn't sure what. Was guessing either a combo deck or some kind of Intuition Control deck.

@Submerge: I like this in theory. I need to sit down and test it, but I've been thinking about it, and it fits into the free spell theme. It's the same reason I experimented with splashing Black for Snuff Out, which is surprisingly not bad either.

Submerge's synergy with Standstill is notable, too. Opponent has a Goyf down? Bounce the threat, drop the Standstill.

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Originally Posted by leander?

I have a rather simple question for you Merfolk-pilots: What are Merfolk's bad matchups?
Thanks in advance.

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Things running Mountains.

@KrzMoose: yeah, I agree, against Zoo Threads is alot better. That's why I run both :tongue:.

It wasn't Canadian Threshold, it was UGr Threshold. No Stifles, no Wastelands (no CBTop), but with Lorescale Coatl for instance. And yes, any deck with alot of nonbasics is affected by Back to Basics.

I'd say Merfolk's bad match-ups are Goblins, Domain/Naya Zoo, Goyf Sligh, various The Rock builds (especially if they have Deeds), Burn, Elves!, Tempo Thresh/UGr Thresh, and TEES. These are the worst I think.

Further Aggro Loam can be a pain if they get Devastating Dreams or a Seismic Assault online, ANT can go broken and then there's no way you can win. The mirror is also mind-boggling hard (to cast the LoA or not to cast the LoA, that's the question :wink:).

I'm sure I'm forgetting about a few match-ups...

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

Things running Mountains.

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That's a good rule of thumb :smile:

Submerge is an amazing card, almost defining Tempo, a free spell that bounces and uses up their next draw step.

My control magic of choice has been Mind Harness, but I have yet to draw it in a Tournament, but in testing, it has been pretty good, but maybe Threads is just better.

Sower seems really really really slow, I would rather just Echoing Truth Goyf in game 1, and then do something else broken in game 2 [Mind Harness lol].

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Originally Posted by leander?

I have a rather simple question for you Merfolk-pilots: What are Merfolk's bad matchups?
Thanks in advance.

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Generall speaking decks packing R and G in that order and sometimes B. Mostly due to either superior G creatures they play and due to the cability to cross your swarm tactics with direct damage (R) or other spot removal (B). I remember a sad game where every creature I laid was burned (you need 3 Lords to go out of direct burn range) and a single Nacatl kept attacking until my LP where reduced to 0.

Bad matchup in my experience:

Zoo / GoyfSligh (especially for the Mono U version)
MBC
The Rock (although your chance here is speed)
Goblins (especially for the Mono U version)
Enchantress (they just have to many good stuff for your 7 counters, in my experience it depends on the how fast Enchantress can lock you out of the game, and how many lock pieces are on the table so you stand a chance to perform a surprise bounce and attack all-in)
AggroLoam (this is more like 50/50 from my experience and the only amtchup where BtB really shines)


Zoo / Goyfsligh is thriving these days so I would expect to have at least one match against it in a bigger tournament.