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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
So I ended up going to a local event this this Saturday as well. Swiss was great with the matches being 2-1 dredge, 2-0 UR delver, 2-0 d&t, 2-1 bug control (not shardless) and an ID with junk maverick putting me as the top seed. Top 8 I ended up losing 1-2 to grixis delver first round. My maindeck was pretty stock and close to what Jack has on the front page, the only thing different was my sideboard.
2 firebolt
2 pyrokinesis
1 duergar hedge-Mage
2 koth
1 red elemental blast
1 ethersworn canonist
1 enlightened tutor
1 crypt
1 rip
1 thorn of amethyst
1 trinisphere
1 sulfur elemental (Holy shit did this card pull it's weight during the d&t matchup.)
Do you guys feel like grixis delver is favorable matchup? Out of all the delver matchups it feels like the worst, if you answer 1 thing they always have something else that is taking over the game. Blood moon also doesn't entirely lock them out of the game, and they seem to have a good lot of options postboard. I have played this a dozen times and when I win it always feel like I win by the skin of my teeth. Do you guys have any advice for this matchup? Is there anything besides sphere of law that I could put in my sideboard to help out this matchup? I'm already running EE in the main so ideally I have recurrable answer to the tokens/delver.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Grixis delver is a decent matchup so long as you go slow. Playing slower, developing your mana is the best way to put yourself in a favourable position to win the matchup. Yes, bloodmoon doesn't 1 shot them, but it's close enough.
One other thing I tend to do is save the removal for after my bombs. Once they are done dazing, force of willing etc just wipe their team with a Pyrokinesis or drop a bridge. An active top can go a long way in this matchup.
On a another note, I'm getting pretty tired of the miracles matchup on mtgo already. Regardless if I push for a fast combo or draw the game out and bridge-koth, it always feels miserable. They are always able to go toe to toe with you then dig themselves out of a hole faster/better then you.
One final note:
I have been quite impressed with pia and Kiran nahar as a one of in the main. The saç ability just take over a game if not dealt with. Also the clock you add to the board is impressive, they almost feel like a pseudo mentor.
But ya, that miracles matchup.
I have been a fan of rest in peace, koth, red blast, hedgemage, and jaya as a board in against them.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mcbain
Grixis delver is a decent matchup so long as you go slow. Playing slower, developing your mana is the best way to put yourself in a favourable position to win the matchup. Yes, bloodmoon doesn't 1 shot them, but it's close enough.
One other thing I tend to do is save the removal for after my bombs. Once they are done dazing, force of willing etc just wipe their team with a Pyrokinesis or drop a bridge. An active top can go a long way in this matchup.
On a another note, I'm getting pretty tired of the miracles matchup on mtgo already. Regardless if I push for a fast combo or draw the game out and bridge-koth, it always feels miserable. They are always able to go toe to toe with you then dig themselves out of a hole faster/better then you.
One final note:
I have been quite impressed with pia and Kiran nahar as a one of in the main. The saç ability just take over a game if not dealt with. Also the clock you add to the board is impressive, they almost feel like a pseudo mentor.
But ya, that miracles matchup.
I have been a fan of rest in peace, koth, red blast, hedgemage, and jaya as a board in against them.
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I hear ya on miracles. I'm sick of losing to it. I feel like I only win when I'm able to get a fast combo through removal or if I can resolve a turn one moon and they only have nonbasics in hand. If I wasn't so interested in trying nahiri harbinger I was considering switching to goblins just so I can have a better matchup against miracles.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
In large 50+ tournaments I have lost to miracles more than most other decks put together. At GP Seattle my two key losses were both close miracles games.
Between the ware-tare, snap caster, Swords, teminus, and all the other garbage it's hard to push through.
You typically have to be the beat down in the matchup simply because you will lose if they are allowed to just make land drops. Futhermore if you try to sit back and play the control you will end up on the wrong side of a mentor in a hurry.
Anyone had luck with certain cards or styles?
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
People have different opinions on this matter, but In my experience landing a blood moon is key against miracles. I lost few games with an early moon effect, because either they are color screwed or they are severely punished because they can't shuffle their deck.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Here is my list that I promised.
2 Bridge
2 Tops
4 Grindstone
3 Petals
4 Blood Moons
3 REB
4 Pyro
2 E. Tutor
1 Jaya
2 Monkey
4 Recruiter
1 spellskite
3 Welder
1 Revoker
4 Painters
1 Daretti (was really good All day)
2 Plateau
5 Red Fetches
1 Great Furnace
4 Mountain
3 City's
4 Tomb
SB
3 Pyrokinesis
1 Hedge-mage
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Sphere of Law
1 Warmth
1 RIP
1 Ethersworn
1 Thorn
1 Graffdiggers Cage
2 Firebolt
1 E Tutor
1 Tormod's Crypt
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I have been impressed with daretti whenever I play him. If you have a welder in play already it feels like your playing a game of edh with the amount of durdling you do.
Jack and Seth have long advocated and reminded people that painter, particularly the shortcake version, is a combo deck at heart - anything to the contrary is something best reserved for the sideboard (or not at all). I count myself among them. That being said I believe 1 synergistic planeswalker is an excellent addition to the deck. On many occasions a painter player will find themselves across the table from a semi-locked out opponent, which is the perfect spot for a walker like daretti or the new nahiri to walk away with the game. Moreover, these planeswalkers themselves advanced the combo plan in some regard on their own.
While traditionally some painter mages have slotted chandra or koth into the maindeck I would argue this style of game play is better suited to the mono red bridge build which acts more as a prison deck.
All this is to say, anyone who hasn't tried daretti should. Although you can go a whole tourney with never seeing him. In addition, the new red white nahiri is worth some heavy playtesting.
PS - Still hate that miracles matchup.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Mcbain,
I typically dont mind playing against miracles. The one that frequents my shop though uses 2 Councils judgements in his Main Deck still. Which many do not even play the card anymore. I personally have always liked having a utility walker in my list. I have been on a single daretti in the 75 since he came out even in the times of UR Treasure Cruise. I agree that Koth and Chandra are more suited for the Mono Red list which i also enjoy playing. I wish i could have played the Wasteland Version this last weekend. But once i acquire new Wastelands i will be able to test that out.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I ended up going to the weekly legacy tournament that happen locally. The tournament was streamed and you can see me play the final round really poorly here. I played against miracles 3 times and ended up going 0-2, 0-2 and 0-2. On the plus side though I tried the RIP strategy that mcbain suggested and it was pretty fantastic, at the end of each game my opponents showed me a fistful of snapcasters that would have probably ended the games a lot sooner. It feels like if you are bringing in RIP against miracles, you should also bring in helm and be a little more dedicated to the combo with your sideboard. Have any of you had much success with the RIP/Helm transformational sideboard?
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
If your grindstones aren't getting the combo done in your meta game, then rip-helm had been a good plan b for a while. Not the worst package to have in your side board.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Looks like jack is in eric froelich's article on channelfireball :)
also, LED main deck and chandra flamecaller in sideboard
http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...egacy-painter/
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LeoCop 90
Jack, I suppose Chandra was your tribute to miracles, but 6 mana seems really really tough. How did it perform overall?
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zangoasyl
Jack, I suppose Chandra was your tribute to miracles, but 6 mana seems really really tough. How did it perform overall?
I've just been experimenting with random things since I plan on trying out nahiri in some fashion and wanted to try out other walkers until it gets released online. Chandra was really good the game I had it against shardless and completely wrecked. I only ran it for a few matches because I thought 6 mana would be too hard. I've since been using 2 ajani. I like the control aspect as compared to koth, but its still a toss-up. We'll see how nahiri plays
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kap'n Cook
I've just been experimenting with random things since I plan on trying out nahiri in some fashion and wanted to try out other walkers until it gets released online. Chandra was really good the game I had it against shardless and completely wrecked. I only ran it for a few matches because I thought 6 mana would be too hard. I've since been using 2 ajani. I like the control aspect as compared to koth, but its still a toss-up. We'll see how nahiri plays
So have you been experimenting with Nahiri at all yet? I can't decide if it's main deck worthy it comes in against decks like Miracles. It's effects are generally very good but like any Planeswalker, it sometimes feels a little slow.
I'm also playing with one LED in the board again. The card is really good at expediting victory and has great synergy with recruiter, welder and sometimes even bridge. It certainly comes out in some MUs but it just steals games in situations we have no business winning.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Well, sometimes the miracles players just have the hand, that says SDT->Counterbalance and there's nothing you can do about it.
But as far as I as a monoR player goes, I think it's a 55-60% MU in our favor. As long as you can use the blasts aggressively and they don't have all the counters for it, well..... :D
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
If you say that Miracles is a good match-up, you've played only against bad players of the deck. There are a lot of worst match-ups, but Miracles isn't easy.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I guarantee you I have played against good miracles players, and I feel ok about the matchup. It's certainly not the best for us. But I've won more than I've lost in an area where we have plenty of good miracles players. I think it's harder if they are running mentor but still just have to know what you're doing.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
phoenix4
Well, sometimes the miracles players just have the hand, that says SDT->Counterbalance and there's nothing you can do about it.
But as far as I as a monoR player goes, I think it's a 55-60% MU in our favor. As long as you can use the blasts aggressively and they don't have all the counters for it, well..... :D
What is your mono red list? I've always switched back and forth between the two and the new nahiri has been motivating me to stay with shortcake. I would say that miracles is by far one of the toughest match ups for me. I'd actually almost rather play burn just because at least it will be a quick death lol. My meta has really good miracles players, but maybe I'm not attacking it right. What is your method of approach? If you have a choice to play your grindstone or top on turn 1 which one do you play? If you have a sol land would you play both turn 1 on the play? After board would you bring in rip to shut down snapcaster Mage? How many moons if any do you board out? Do you bring in all the burn for mentor? If they have a top out and you don't have one would you revoker theirs or just name jace off the bat? How many bridges if any do you keep in post board? Are a majority of your wins against miracles through combo or dork beat down? Do you blast ponders and brainstorms. I usually let the ponder slide but I'll blast the brainstorms this way they can't put a miracle card from their hand on top of their library. Sorry for all the questions. I just feel like I have tried everything against miracles and still have a terrible record something like 20% to 80% and the wins I do get are because I probably got lucky, beat them down after they fetched way too many times, or surprised them with a combo activation in response to their stp using spirit guides or they tap out because they see I don't have enough for an activation but i had led.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
@SDBoBPlissken
I'm running shortcake and have about 60% winchance against the better miracle players in my area. My plays probably aren't perfect, but I can share my experiences about your questions:
- From a tomb with stone and top I would play top with activation, unless you got Painter and more sol on hand. Then I'd play both, leading with stone.
- I usually brought in RiP before, but they always asked my why since our Welders are more significant (some even sided their snaps out and own Rips in). I agree to this, and haven't sided RiP for a long time, and probably won't anytime soon. Note that I play 3 Welder tho.
- About bridges and burn, it depends on what version they're on and what burn you're packing. Against Legend Miracles or Mentor Miracles, I'd keep bridges in and add all burn. Against "normal" miracles (most common), I'd side out bridges, but only if you got something better to side in or worse cards to side out. If you got Lightning Bolt/ Pyrokinesis/Sudden Shock, bring it. If Firebolt, don't.
It's a bit similiar with Moons, I'd keep them all against Legends, but side out 2-3 against "normal". Not too sure with Mentor version, some of them run really greedy bases, so you should take count of their duals during game 1.
- For blasts, there's a lot of discussion when to blast cantrips and when not to. Usually I like to save blasts for their actual threats (Counterbalance, Jace, eventually FoW) rather than what finds them. I do blast their cantrip if they're really low on card count or I got plenty blasts late in game, but I know some like to be aggressive and blast them even more often. I think both styles got their good arguments, so I'd say follow your gut on this.
The games in general tend to be either very very fast with combo, or very grindy, and we actually grind better than them if we got our top. As long as you can blast their early counterbalances and they don't drop an early Mentor you can't answer, you got a pretty good chance of winning. Threaten combos asap, but don't waste a blast for protection unless its their last card or white mana open. Let the painter go, find a new one, and do it again. Eventually they'll have none or just one answer, while you have blasts and more gas. At least always always have a blast ready for counterbalance.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SDBobPlissken
What is your mono red list? I've always switched back and forth between the two and the new nahiri has been motivating me to stay with shortcake. I would say that miracles is by far one of the toughest match ups for me. I'd actually almost rather play burn just because at least it will be a quick death lol. My meta has really good miracles players, but maybe I'm not attacking it right. What is your method of approach? If you have a choice to play your grindstone or top on turn 1 which one do you play? If you have a sol land would you play both turn 1 on the play? After board would you bring in rip to shut down snapcaster Mage? How many moons if any do you board out? Do you bring in all the burn for mentor? If they have a top out and you don't have one would you revoker theirs or just name jace off the bat? How many bridges if any do you keep in post board? Are a majority of your wins against miracles through combo or dork beat down? Do you blast ponders and brainstorms. I usually let the ponder slide but I'll blast the brainstorms this way they can't put a miracle card from their hand on top of their library. Sorry for all the questions. I just feel like I have tried everything against miracles and still have a terrible record something like 20% to 80% and the wins I do get are because I probably got lucky, beat them down after they fetched way too many times, or surprised them with a combo activation in response to their stp using spirit guides or they tap out because they see I don't have enough for an activation but i had led.
Morcrux provided some great answers.
I'll give my 2 cents on some of them plus a bit more on things he didn't touch.
If you have a choice to play your grindstone or top on turn 1... Is this game one vs. unknown or Game 2 vs. Miracles? Are you on the Play or the Draw? IMO sticking that Grindstone is more important vs. Miracles since they have the possibility of locking down your CMC 1 spells, they also don't have that many ways to remove it... they have more post board, but it's not a ton. I know you want to land a top to grind the game out... but IMO Top is far more important to Miracles game plan then it is to ours. I've revoked Top even when I've had my own Top out... I've revoked top in matches where only I had a Top in play... and still won. Naming Jace with Revoker is wrong. You've got Red Elemental Blasts Effects out the wazoo, Jace can't break up the combo, and really isn't a huge threat to us. The only miracles card I'd be worried about is Entreat (Terminus is really weak vs. our deck... it can disrupt the combo but it just puts things where Recruiter can get them) and even then it's not too bad because you should have access to ratchet bomb or engineered explosives... so I'm not sure It's worth fighting over Brainstorms... Prudent REB effect usage and Revoker usage seems to be the keys to winning this matchup.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GundamGuy
Morcrux provided some great answers.
I'll give my 2 cents on some of them plus a bit more on things he didn't touch.
If you have a choice to play your grindstone or top on turn 1... Is this game one vs. unknown or Game 2 vs. Miracles? Are you on the Play or the Draw? IMO sticking that Grindstone is more important vs. Miracles since they have the possibility of locking down your CMC 1 spells, they also don't have that many ways to remove it... they have more post board, but it's not a ton. I know you want to land a top to grind the game out... but IMO Top is far more important to Miracles game plan then it is to ours. I've revoked Top even when I've had my own Top out... I've revoked top in matches where only I had a Top in play... and still won. Naming Jace with Revoker is wrong. You've got Red Elemental Blasts Effects out the wazoo, Jace can't break up the combo, and really isn't a huge threat to us. The only miracles card I'd be worried about is Entreat (Terminus is really weak vs. our deck... it can disrupt the combo but it just puts things where Recruiter can get them) and even then it's not too bad because you should have access to ratchet bomb or engineered explosives... so I'm not sure It's worth fighting over Brainstorms... Prudent REB effect usage and Revoker usage seems to be the keys to winning this matchup.
Revoker does work, but it's only a temporary answer with all the ways they have of removing it. I agree that sticking a grindstone is important, but you'll notice that they'll never really counter grindstone or top since they're less significant than Painter or some other bomb. In this regard I'd rather have an early top-activation with a sol land. But if you don't have a sol land, then I'd use the first mana on Grindstone, yes.
Jace isn't a buffer for our combo, but once they start having free brainstorms every turn we'll quickly fall behind, so better just get rid of him unless we can save the blast to protect combo next turn or something.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morcrux
Revoker does work, but it's only a temporary answer with all the ways they have of removing it. I agree that sticking a grindstone is important, but you'll notice that they'll never really counter grindstone or top since they're less significant than Painter or some other bomb. In this regard I'd rather have an early top-activation with a sol land. But if you don't have a sol land, then I'd use the first mana on Grindstone, yes.
Jace isn't a buffer for our combo, but once they start having free brainstorms every turn we'll quickly fall behind, so better just get rid of him unless we can save the blast to protect combo next turn or something.
That stands to reason. I mean you can't let Jace just do Jace things with impunity and win. My whole point about Jace wasn't that he's a card that you should just let stick around, it was that naming Jace with Revoker is wrong. We've got way to many instant speed answers to Jace to be worried about 4 mana unsummons or brainstorms.
Revoker is temporary, but it's a pretty good card to drop early on Top since it also has legs and Miracles (especially without Monastery Mentor) doesn't commit legs to the board quickly. My experience is early game they don't want to spend there STP on Revoker just to unlock Top, out of respect to Painter's Servant.
Additionally in the mid game I've often found myself casting SSG's against Miracles.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Does anyone have any feedback on Nahiri? I am trying her in place of the third Top but I haven't been able to play test much. The only people I've played against were on Lands, 12 Post and Shardless and those matches are kind of a blow out anyway. Her ultimate is easily and quickly attainable which has been nice for when I can't find a piece of the combo. All her other abilities are relevant which has been nice. I really want to test her against Miracles as being able to blow up a resolved Counterbalance seems way nice. Just wondering what other people think.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I can speak from my experience playing against Miracles once, sometimes twice a week at the local that the deck just needs to come out of the gates swinging. The longer the game gets dragged out, the worse it gets. I've found that a powerful angle of attacking Miracles is to actually attack their mana base early and often. In recent matches against the deck, I've integrated Active Volcano back into the deck. I've not only been firing off early one-mana Stone Rains, but I've found myself in a position where the card gives great value against cheap Delvers, Blighted Agents, Counterbalance, etc., while also turning into a Recoil against some decks in the early goings.
Blasts in this match-up are just highly underrated. The key is not necessarily stopping Top - because Revoker is soft to just about everything they have. If you start firing off aggressive one-mana Stone Rains early on, my results have at least shown that the deck is able to punish greedy keeps with Top as a source of mana fixing. This not only stunts their board development early, but puts them in a situation where their resources are tied up using mana to activate Top while we punch through with the combo. Is it risky? Somewhat. But the true power of these cards are lit up when Painter's Servant enters the battlefield, and anytime you can play Stone Rain at instant speed for one mana is still a good play early on.
Blood Moon - surprisingly - does have game against Miracles. Some people might disagree, but the truth is Miracles plays the card in the sideboard at its own pace. Meaning, it fetches for basics then fires it off - thus giving itself an advantage. If someone slams Blood Moon against the deck and shuts off double-blue/white mana for Jace, Counterbalance, Judgement, in addition to Blasting/Volcanoing basic Plains (an early power play), then Blood Moon becomes a game-changer. At its very core, Miracles is simply a control deck. Historically, control decks are mana heavy and mana hungry. If you shut down their resources early and force an opponent into timing their spells awkwardly, you have a very good chance to steal games early.
Miracles obviously plays many lands, but again - Blood Moon and Blasts early is a solid way to punch through spells and really back the opponent into awkward decisions. And just because a player plays a healthy number of land doesn't always mean they'll draw one every turn. Consider this: the earliest Painter lists also ran Active Volcano in a Counterbalance-heavy metagame in 2008 to great success. Some of that may be attributed to inexperience playing against the archetype in its infancy, but Counterbalance-Top decks are still just that with cantrips and removal tossed in the mix. I've been very pleased with them back in the deck so far, but that's just me and I'm nuts. :-)
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Played a swiss 5 with 1/1 split of Nahiri today, and she's exiled a Nether Spirit, a Mother (after luring him into tapping it to protect a weld on Revoker) and a Counterbalance. Also got through a ulti to find grindstone. She does work great, but she's also been clunky to have at hand some games because of blood moon and high cost, so I'm juggling between keeping 1 main and up to 4 petals, or keep 2 in side.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Michael Keller
I can speak from my experience playing against Miracles once, sometimes twice a week at the local that the deck just needs to come out of the gates swinging. The longer the game gets dragged out, the worse it gets. I've found that a powerful angle of attacking Miracles is to actually attack their mana base early and often. In recent matches against the deck, I've integrated
Active Volcano back into the deck. I've not only been firing off early one-mana Stone Rains, but I've found myself in a position where the card gives great value against cheap Delvers, Blighted Agents, Counterbalance, etc., while also turning into a Recoil against some decks in the early goings.
Blasts in this match-up are just highly underrated. The key is not necessarily stopping Top - because Revoker is soft to just about everything they have. If you start firing off aggressive one-mana Stone Rains early on, my results have at least shown that the deck is able to punish greedy keeps with Top as a source of mana fixing. This not only stunts their board development early, but puts them in a situation where their resources are tied up using mana to activate Top while we punch through with the combo. Is it risky? Somewhat. But the true power of these cards are lit up when Painter's Servant enters the battlefield, and anytime you can play Stone Rain at instant speed for one mana is still a good play early on.
Blood Moon - surprisingly - does have game against Miracles. Some people might disagree, but the truth is Miracles plays the card in the sideboard at its own pace. Meaning, it fetches for basics then fires it off - thus giving itself an advantage. If someone slams Blood Moon against the deck and shuts off double-blue/white mana for Jace, Counterbalance, Judgement, in addition to Blasting/Volcanoing basic Plains (an early power play), then Blood Moon becomes a game-changer. At its very core, Miracles is simply a control deck. Historically, control decks are mana heavy and mana hungry. If you shut down their resources early and force an opponent into timing their spells awkwardly, you have a very good chance to steal games early.
Miracles obviously plays many lands, but again - Blood Moon and Blasts early is a solid way to punch through spells and really back the opponent into awkward decisions. And just because a player plays a healthy number of land doesn't always mean they'll draw one every turn. Consider this: the earliest Painter lists also ran Active Volcano in a Counterbalance-heavy metagame in 2008 to great success. Some of that may be attributed to inexperience playing against the archetype in its infancy, but Counterbalance-Top decks are still just that with cantrips and removal tossed in the mix. I've been very pleased with them back in the deck so far, but that's just me and I'm nuts. :-)
I agree with all of this. I'm not sold 100% on Active Volcano, but I agree with the game plan.
I still think Revoker is a great play on Top, yes it can totally be removed by pretty much all of their removal, but Revoker is great in that it turns sideways which is one of the major things you want to be doing all game. Keep the pressure up, and don't rely on the combo.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
The problem with Revoker and Needle on Top is that they're so soft to everything in the opponent's deck: Swords, Snapcaster Mage, Terminus, Wear//Tear, etc. It gives me a false sense of security when I play those cards (aside from Revoker against Storm), because I know it's only a temporary fix.
In a mono-red variant, I've been looking at Pyromancer's Goggles as another option to beef up the Blast Attack. I'm just going to throw this out there - but has anyone at least considered Artifact Blast against artifact-heavy decks, with incidental utility against Top-based strategies? It seems like a good fit with Simian Spirit Guide to blow out an opponent who keeps their hand with a Top and one land.
This deck has such good match-ups across the board, but when it runs into Top-based strategies it seems to have a harder time.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Michael Keller
The problem with Revoker and Needle on Top is that they're so soft to everything in the opponent's deck: Swords, Snapcaster Mage, Terminus, Wear//Tear, etc. It gives me a false sense of security when I play those cards (aside from Revoker against Storm), because I know it's only a temporary fix.
In a mono-red variant, I've been looking at
Pyromancer's Goggles as another option to beef up the Blast Attack. I'm just going to throw this out there - but has anyone at least considered
Artifact Blast against artifact-heavy decks, with incidental utility against Top-based strategies? It seems like a good fit with Simian Spirit Guide to blow out an opponent who keeps their hand with a Top and one land.
This deck has such good match-ups across the board, but when it runs into Top-based strategies it seems to have a harder time.
I like the idea mostly, but I for one kind of forgot artifact blast was a card.
In regards to previous questions about Nahiri, I've been playing her recently and liked her a lot, exiled a library and knight of the reliquary pretty reliably thus far.
Also thanks to whoever reminded me how great sulfur elemental is, he wiped a field of elves for me recently with painter on white.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Artifact Blast.. hah, now that's funny! It's quite genious against top, and incredible in the mirror, but I'm afraid that's it. We already got a pretty good matchup against MUD and Tezzerator.
As for the Goggles, double blasts seems really interesting. 5 mana's a lot, but it can be tapped for a blast at once..
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Michael Keller
The problem with Revoker and Needle on Top is that they're so soft to everything in the opponent's deck: Swords, Snapcaster Mage, Terminus, Wear//Tear, etc. It gives me a false sense of security when I play those cards (aside from Revoker against Storm), because I know it's only a temporary fix.
In a mono-red variant, I've been looking at
Pyromancer's Goggles as another option to beef up the Blast Attack. I'm just going to throw this out there - but has anyone at least considered
Artifact Blast against artifact-heavy decks, with incidental utility against Top-based strategies? It seems like a good fit with Simian Spirit Guide to blow out an opponent who keeps their hand with a Top and one land.
This deck has such good match-ups across the board, but when it runs into Top-based strategies it seems to have a harder time.
Pyromancer's Goggle is just a bit to much IMO, if it had been 3 or 4 mana it would have been broken, I realize... but at 5 it's really hard to justify. There has got to be a cheaper way to double up on blasts. If we had other key instants or sorceries that we were playing... maybe I could see it. I just don't think we have the density of instant and or sorceries to justify it. I'd love to know how testing goes though.
IMO Artifact Blast is too narrow even though it's a cute card.
Also I agree with you Revoker and Needle on top isn't a "Win the Game... Now" play, but Revoker is still good because it makes them expend resources they want to use on more important cards... also again Revoker is a 2/1 and can attack early against the slow to develop Miracles Board (Needle is bad IMO) so it's a good momentum play. I agree it doesn't win you the game, and it shouldn't make you feel like your safe behind your wall... but it's a good momentum play along the way.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GundamGuy
Pyromancer's Goggle is just a bit to much IMO, if it had been 3 or 4 mana it would have been broken, I realize... but at 5 it's really hard to justify. There has got to be a cheaper way to double up on blasts. If we had other key instants or sorceries that we were playing... maybe I could see it. I just don't think we have the density of instant and or sorceries to justify it. I'd love to know how testing goes though.
IMO Artifact Blast is too narrow even though it's a cute card.
Also I agree with you Revoker and Needle on top isn't a "Win the Game... Now" play, but Revoker is still good because it makes them expend resources they want to use on more important cards... also again Revoker is a 2/1 and can attack early against the slow to develop Miracles Board (Needle is bad IMO) so it's a good momentum play. I agree it doesn't win you the game, and it shouldn't make you feel like your safe behind your wall... but it's a good momentum play along the way.
Having late-game power against Miracles could be crucial. That's what the deck is sorely lacking right now. Goggles shores up that weakness by making each of your Blasts that much more potent and giving you added value, much like Snapcaster Mage into X card would do. Having that ability is really important and I think it's overlooked. I'm even starting to tinker with Isochron Scepter as a permanent source of disruption and added redundancy with Blast effects. With Welder, that could be really nasty and incredibly potent.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Michael Keller
Having late-game power against Miracles could be crucial. That's what the deck is sorely lacking right now. Goggles shores up that weakness by making each of your Blasts that much more potent and giving you added value, much like Snapcaster Mage into X card would do. Having that ability is really important and I think it's overlooked. I'm even starting to tinker with
Isochron Scepter as a permanent source of disruption and added redundancy with Blast effects. With Welder, that could be really nasty and incredibly potent.
Isochron is an awesome idea for the grindy MUs!!
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zangoasyl
Isochron is an awesome idea for the grindy MUs!!
Abrupt Decay being a ubiquitous card doesn't scare me off from playing a card like Scepter. There are plenty of cards they can target in this match-up, assuming they can get around Blood Moon. Anything that poses a scare or something of trouble for an opponent is enough for me to warrant its testing and subsequent usage.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Against majority of non delver decks that run decay, are we even wanting the full amount of red blasts plus scepter? If you have the ability to tutor for it with painter out, sure it would be awesome, but wouldn't grindstone be the better tutor?
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sleight
Against majority of non delver decks that run decay, are we even wanting the full amount of red blasts plus scepter? If you have the ability to tutor for it with painter out, sure it would be awesome, but wouldn't grindstone be the better tutor?
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I'd play it in a mono red version before the white splash. The strength of the mono red version is its stability and redundancy. Drawing Grindstone in the mono red version is really the only way to combo out, however attacking from an angle where you're focused on destroying permanents or having added power against blue decks anyhow would give the deck a boost instead of relying on its draws in the mid game.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Anyone play with a main plains?
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GradStudent
Anyone play with a main plains?
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I tried it multiple times and it kept pissing me off with hands including it and a Sol land plus Blood Moon. It's better in my opinion out of the board where the white splash becomes more copious, much like Vintage where you'd board in a Mountain to support the help out of the board. In the main, it's kind of clunky because you're only running two white cards.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Michael Keller
I tried it multiple times and it kept pissing me off with hands including it and a Sol land plus Blood Moon. It's better in my opinion out of the board where the white splash becomes more copious, much like Vintage where you'd board in a Mountain to support the help out of the board. In the main, it's kind of clunky because you're only running two white cards.
I agree with this. Having tried MD Plains and sideboard I was much happier with access in the sideboard. However I currently play no Plains. If you do ensure that you run 4 Arid Mesa though.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I will gladly listen to the ideas of pyromancer's goggles and isochron scepter with only 6 to 7 imprintable cards maindeck when they actually work and have multiple large events (7 rounds +) results to back them up. Until then, they are just random and jank ideas. Artifact blast as well. Like what happens if they t1 top and you have 1 in your hand with no simian. All of a sudden you are down 1 card for no reason other than bad deckbuilding.
I don't concern myself with double IDs after 4 wins as that is just a small inbred tournament at that point. For the larger tournaments where you have to prepare for everything, I believe in the similar vein of Dredge that Parcher shares that there is a best 75 to run and I will always work towards that goal.
Speaking of which, I am currently loving Ajani in the board and have gone 16-2 in my past matches. Keeping the combo svelte maindeck with ultra tutor speed has been amazing, and the ability to side all the speed out for the grind house in games 2 or 3 has been a great transition. I'm not really sure why anyone would play mono red at this point as the flexibility and speed of Shortcake is worlds better than 4 extra mountains.
For those wondering, I have not tested Nahiri yet, but will get to it. Ajani has been great as a board control in multiple matchups. For example, against reanimator it tapped down a Griselbrand continuously. It is not as bomby as Koth is, but I have enjoyed its versatility.
-kap
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
made top 8 today.
lost match one to goblins
won match two to merfolk - wasn't even close even after i received a game loss for deck error
won match three to Shardless BUG through my punting plays - blood moon OP
Won match four against grixis delver on camera. https://www.twitch.tv/snapcasters/v/62340643 at 3 hours 11 minutes in
drew for top 8
and my first round match was top OmniShow gg
:(
i definitely dont have enough experience piloting the deck, wish there was a quick reference for updated sideboard strategies somewhere in this thread
top 8 was lands, omnishow with wish SB, jund, infect, me, dredge, burn, and i think grixis delver which I beat in match 3.
I used Kap's list with ajani
Lands player won it all, I'm curious what I would put in board or main based on this metagame, not many miracles and elves players out there.
