[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

I just want to share with you this new approach of ANT which is giving me very good results as I find it the most stable ANT build regarding to the AN life loss:

4 Lotus Petal
4 Duress
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Burning Wish
4 Rite of Flame
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Chrome Mox
1 Ad Nauseam
3 Thoutgseize
3 Mystical Tutor
3 Infernal Tutor

1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta

Sideboard
3 Vexing Shusher
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Infernal Tutor
1 Thoughtseize
1 Simplify
1 DeathMark
1 Shattering S
1 Meltdown
1 E.Truth
1 Grapeshot
(-1 card)

Well I know its 16 cards from side I recognize that D.Returns at firt was a must but I always found useless at least in this build it's not a 100% win Cond and as I "believe" in maths I simply took it out.
As you notice there is no cost greater that 2 wich is something I strongly recomend to those which anytime have lost themselves with ANT, well I guarranty that with this build you'll never die becuase of this issue, you'll never show a 4 manacost spell and burning in here is the star.
Also having Shuser in side is something wich really like becuase it handles both the c.b. problem and the chalice problem and... Merfolks.

In older versions I didn't play the seconf IGG and Tendrils in side, not needed, instead 1 D.REturns, however I'd like to have the IGG plan for agro match ups sidng in 1 Tedrils and 1 IGG leaving the other copies in side, but this is untested.

I've also tested the +1 land = -1 C.Mox, however it doesn't like me this change put down the statistics, something I completely dislike.

Edit : the new duress is crap, I didn't notice it doesn't take FoW

The new duress is CRAP since can`t take fow.

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Originally Posted by johanessen

The new duress is CRAP since can`t take fow.

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You know, I've been hearing this a lot and it may be true, but I'd like to point out at one point people said Smother was crap because it couldn't kill Exalted Angel.

There are applications for the new Thoughtseize, this might not be the right deck for it and it might be "crap" in this deck... doesn't mean the card is overall horrible. I have honestly been thinking of replacing duress' with the new Thoughtseize in Reanimator as it nails all relevant hate pieces except Leyline (which is usually either starting the game in play or not getting cast) and FoW... But with Counter backup and alongside Real-Seize, that shouldn't matter much. No life loss to nab Faerie out of the opponents hand is savageness, indeed. /derail

I've been testing various builds of ANT, NLS, and BUwg Hybrid lists lately trying to find one that suits me.. I haven't played storm in a long time, and I've been daunted by NLS a bit due to the sheer number of lines of play that are available. I'm still testing it and trying to force myself to see those lines of play but it's definitely harder than I've given it credit for. One thing of note, I've tried the list with and without SSG so far and in my early (few matches) worth of testing each I've noticed that I like Rite cause I feel safer when AdN resolves life-total wise, not to mention it adds to storm, but I definitely have been liking the fact that SSG doesn't require a mana investment to give you that net red mana.

To the people who have gone fully to NLS + SSG... Is flipping 3 damage off an AdN and not increasing storm count offset by the fact that SSG is an IMS? Or is this seeming more of a playstyle/choice preference? I know Emidln recommends the SSGs, what does everyone else think?

Played this pile to a 5-1-1 record at the Jupiter Games tournament yesterday. I ended up 9th on breakers, which was unfortunate, but the deck itself is a monster.

4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
4 LED
4 Lotus Petal
3 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
3 Cabal Ritual

2 Ad Nauseam
2 Tendrils of Agony

4 Duress
3 Thoughtseize

4 Brainstorm
4 Mystical Tutor
3 Ponder
3 Infernal Tutor
2 Sensei's Divining Top

SB:
1 Island
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rebuild
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Extirpate
1 Sadistic Sacrament
3 Krosan Grip
4 Dark Confidant

I realized, in quite an obvious moment of "duh", that there is no reason the Tropical Island should be maindeck with the basic Island in the board. They should be switched. Other than that, I wouldn't change a single card in this deck.

Anyway, the tournament had 91 players, with a sea of blue decks. In fact I only played against one deck without blue.

I lost 3 games legitimately, 2 to Reanimator nut draws and 1 to a maindeck Teeg. I ended up 1-1-1 and 2-1 vs. Reanimator.

I also lost 3 games to mistakes, and 1 match because I made 2 mistakes in the same match. I was in a position to 2-0 every blue deck that wasn't Reanimator. This deck is just sick.

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Originally Posted by Rico Suave

SB:
1 Island
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rebuild
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Extirpate
1 Sadistic Sacrament
3 Krosan Grip
4 Dark Confidant

I realized, in quite an obvious moment of "duh", that there is no reason the Tropical Island should be maindeck with the basic Island in the board. They should be switched. Other than that, I wouldn't change a single card in this deck.

Anyway, the tournament had 91 players, with a sea of blue decks. In fact I only played against one deck without blue.

I lost 3 games legitimately, 2 to Reanimator nut draws and 1 to a maindeck Teeg. I ended up 1-1-1 and 2-1 vs. Reanimator.

I also lost 3 games to mistakes, and 1 match because I made 2 mistakes in the same match. I was in a position to 2-0 every blue deck that wasn't Reanimator. This deck is just sick.

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Can you give a bit of advise as to how you sideboarded for the different matchups?

Sacrament is against the Mirror?

Would you say this list is good against a field of approx 20% Thresh and 20% ANT?

Definitely going to sleeve this baby up and see whether it suits me or not.

Yeah, please post how you would sideboard against the main/important match ups.

Also, why not 2x Recall instead of 1x Recall, 1x Rebuild?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saspook

Can you give a bit of advise as to how you sideboarded for the different matchups?

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Nothing is set in stone. A lot of people play stock netdeck lists, but a lot of other people will put their own spins and changes into the deck that make things play out differently. The most important rule of SB'ing is to never go on auto pilot, and always react. My SB'ing plans change greatly depending on not just what cards my opponent is playing, but how he is playing too. Being on the play or draw changes some things too.

Generally, Bob is there against decks that are either slow plodding control decks or CB based decks. If your opponent has a lot of beatdown and little permission, you have to ask yourself "do I need Bob?" If your maindeck disruption is enough to beat the enemy deck, then don't use Bob.

When I do board in Bob, I almost always board out 3 Cabal Ritual. It helps the mana curve stay low which is important.

For example in the tourney I boarded as follows against Landstill:
-1 Chrome Mox
-3 Cabal Ritual
-3 Ponder
+4 Dark Confidant
+2 Krosan Grip
+1 Chain of Vapor

This is nearly identical to my default plan against CB/Top-Goyf, except with the 3rd Grip instead of Chain of Vapor. But I always include Chain of Vapor or Slaughter Pact if I suspect my opponent has something tricky.

When I Duressed my opponent in game 1, I saw Enlightened Tutor. I know people don't run that card unless they have artifacts/enchantments worth getting, so a couple Grips was natural. Chain of Vapor is because I know Landstill's best shot at winning is Meddling Mage, and you really don't want to lose to that card. And I didn't board in the 3rd Grip because quite frankly I didn't have any other card I really wanted to board out. It's important to make sure the deck can still function normally and taking out too many critical pieces can cause it to stall.

In game 2 of that match, I played a first turn Ritual, Duress, Bob. My opponent played a turn 2 Meddling Mage naming Tendrils. I went on to play a 2nd, then a 3rd Bob. My opponent followed up with a pair of Mishra's Factories and realized he was in a bad situation. I attacked with 3 Bobs, Gripped the Factory that could pump. On the next turn I attacked again, Gripped his 2nd Factory, and he was forced to chump block one of the Bobs with M.Mage. At one point with 3 Bobs in play he said "you have HOW many cards in hand?!" which is a testament to the power of the card. I would have killed him with beatdown, but I flipped a Tendrils to speed the clock up by a turn. I ended the game having outdrawn my opponent like 3:1.

Another example:
Against Reanimator, Extirpate is a really good card. Not only does it 2:1 their business, but it also removes Iona completely so none of their follow-up reanimation spells are going to lock you out. It also gives information about their hand, their library, and isn't even counterable!

I did this against Reanimator:
-1 Chrome Mox
-1 Ponder
+1 Extirpate
+1 Chain of Vapor

In some games, I also took out a 2nd Ponder to put in a 3rd Echoing Truth. In the round I had an unintentional draw against Reanimator, game 3 I had to Mystical Tutor for Extirpate on his Iona or risk losing, but losing M.Tutor slowed me down as it was critical to my speed. He had Reanimated and gotten a swing with Sphinx in, and I cast an Ad Nauseam at 12 life that wasn't going to get there against his 24 life. I Echoing Truthed his Sphinx, leaving him with very few relevant cards in his deck. We went into draw-go mode all the way to time, neither of us able to finish it (though I was building up to a lethal Tendrils). It's tough to say who would have won.

Another example:
Against my one opponent, who was playing Bant with Wastelands and Stifle and a more aggro-control version, I suspected CB but didn't bring in Grip or Bobs. Instead I just boarded in an extra land at the expense of a Ponder. I ended up making some very tough judgement calls during this match that turned out to be wrong. Sometimes there is the correct choice, but it's not always the choice that wins.

Another round against blue, I didn't board anything at all. I put all 15 cards of my SB into my deck, if only to throw off my opponent, but ended up taking out every SB card and playing the maindeck in games 2 and 3. I lost game 2 due to a very poor Duress choice. Game 3 I had the nut hand of Sea, Duress, Lotus Petal, Ritual, LED, LED, Infernal Tutor. I killed him turn 1 through Force.

In short, Chrome Mox and Ponder are there for speed. They are usually the first to come out against blue, but against aggressive beatdown versions of blue it's perfectly fine to keep those there and not board anything at all (since you have such a good match against those decks anyway). Against Merfolk I tend to board out a Ponder for a 16th land and that's it.

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As for the rest of the SB, Sacrament is for the mirror. It doesn't work against B.Wish variants, but they don't have the SB space to support both B.Wish and Bob. And Bob is f'ing great in the mirror and will win you a lot of games by providing you tons of Duresses to knock them down.

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Against decks like Dragon Stompy and Stax, on the draw you prob want to board out some number of Duress/Thoughtseize for the 16th land and some bounce. I keep Duress against Stax and Thoughtseize against D.Stompy. On the play, you can put some more Duress/Seize back into the deck than your normally would have.

Rebuild is very, very good. A decent Trinisphere/Chalice player will know that they get blown out by H.Recall, and will likely set Chalice at 2. Sometimes you'll be facing a double Chalice draw and be facing Chalices at 1 and 2. Rebuild saves you. I lost to D.Stompy in my last tournament because he had Trinisphere/Chalice at 2. I had M.Tutor and Infernal Tutor, plus a ton of mana, but couldn't win through both of those artifacts without Rebuild. After that event I put Rebuild in and love it.

Chain of Vapor is not bad. It does die to Chalice at 1. On the other hand is bounces Chalice at 0, Chalice at 2, Trinisphere, Moon effects so you can fetch more basics, and as always it is good when going off and trying to generate storm. That being said it is probably the weakest bounce effect and I'd rather have a Duress on the play.

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Against aggro decks, it is important to maintain speed. On the draw, I board out 3 Duress effects for Slaughter Pact, Chain of Vapor, and Echoing Truth most of the time. This hits a little of everything while still keeping 5 Duress effects in case they have something fancy. I frequently adjust a lot if game 3 happens, because not only am I on the play but I know specifically what they are using to beat me.

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As for the topic of Tempo Threshold, I fear it is a bad deck. I know a lot of people look at results, see it win, and proclaim it a good deck. This isn't the case. It certainly has game against ANT, but it has a lot of problems against pretty much everything else and most people seem to be drifting away from it towards better decks.

Anyway, don't get fancy against Tempo Thresh. Just board in an extra land (at the expense of maybe a Ponder) and learn to beat them. Once you reach a certain level, they just aren't going to take anything better than 50% from you.

This is just my opinion though.

How do you feel about Reverent Silence vs. Grip?

awesome post. just what I was looking for. Thanks!

I'm a big fan of Grip.

Let's say you are in a situation where the opponent has an active CB/Top, and a Force in hand. If you go for Reverent Silence, it is embarassing if they Force it and you're still stuck under CB/Top. On the other hand, if you Grip the CB their only hope is to have kept a 3 drop on top (and most CB decks these days seem to have as many 4 drops for Silence as they do 3 drops for Grip). With CB off the board, it opens up the Duresses in your hand to take that Force, and now they have nothing while you combo out.

Also, Grip hitting artifacts is key. Some CB builds like to board in Ethersworn Cannonist and Grip hits that.

4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tundra
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Tropical Island
4 Dark Ritual
3 Cabal Ritual
2 Ad Nauseam
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lotus Petal
3 Chrome Mox
4 Pact of Negation
3 Mox Diamond
2 Thoughtseize
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Duress
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Serum Visions

WTF? 6th of 128 Man in Italy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kruchkow

4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tundra
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Tropical Island
4 Dark Ritual
3 Cabal Ritual
2 Ad Nauseam
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lotus Petal
3 Chrome Mox
4 Pact of Negation
3 Mox Diamond
2 Thoughtseize
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Duress
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Serum Visions

WTF? 6th of 128 Man in Italy.

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Lol, it happens. Played lands all day?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JonBarber

Lol, it happens. Played lands all day?

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To be honest, that guy makes top8 all the time with that list. He's very good. Although i personally don't like AdN-only ANT.

I just don't understand the one-of serum visions. Seems weak?

He wanted Ponder number 5 maybe?

How would Saito's build sideboard against 43 Lands Blue? They go to 4 Chalice game 2-3. Game 1 is heavily in our favor, however I am trying to test and see if just boarding in Recall in place of Thoughtsieze to bounce Chalice is the right thing. Grip slows me down to much, and Confidant is way to slow.

Thoughts?

Lol easy matchup, you can't lose it :P
At the end of his turn you just go fetch something and you side in a grip^^
Then just destroy his chalice and go all-the-way :P

I wouldn't side out duresses or thoughtseizes becouse some lands players like to side in mindbreak trap (even if they are not you can still take out chalice. When i played saito Ant i always sided in h.recall, E thruth en rebuild. I think rebuild was probably the best card in this matchup. If your meta has players playing trinispheres, chalices regularly i would recommend playing 1 H.Recall, 1 Rebuild instead of 2 H.Recall.

I am interested to hear what people think about the Shelldock Island/Emrakul/Doomsday win (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?17048-[Deck]-Shelldrazi). I think it might be a cool man-plan type alternate win for the sideboard. Most likely scenario, it kills on turn 4-ish. Turn 1 Top, turn 2 Mystical for either DD or DRit, turn 3 play DD/Top into Shelldock, Turn 4 smash ass. It's got some ups and downs:

Bad:
- Even under ideal situations, you have to pass the turn after Doomsday
- Scoops to Wasteland (Stifle slows it down a turn)
- Scoops to random shit like Edict

Good:
- Only requires :u:
- Uncounterable
- Doesn't care about most combo hate (Chalice, Canonist, Teeg, Pyro Pillar, etc.), only kinda cares about Spheres
- You get to play Emrakul

I personally like it. I think it's probably worth 2 spots in the sideboard. Thoughts?

Personally I think its not worth the 2 slots becouse in a DD Ant/NLS deck you already have a variarity of winning options better then going for an Emrakul win.

On a side note:
Has anyone already tested playing chants in a RBU NLS deck (with 4 burning wish and quite some red cards in SB). I was wondering if it was possible to replace duress with chants or if it would weaken your mana base too much.