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I honestly do not even plan for the Burn match. I mean I will side in 3Sphere, Canonist and Firebolt, but I am not planing to fight them specificly. It's just one of the matches I write off as bad and hope not to see. It and goblins. Rather go harder at the other matches then overload against the ones that are going to be more that 50% against you no matter what you do.
Well my feeling is that leyline takes those spots. And survives abrupt decay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
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Well my feeling is that leyline takes those spots. And survives abrupt decay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
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I do not agree. Leyline is a strong card, but I do not think that it should reduce the spread of my sideboard just so that one matchup can be made a little bit better. I rather have a more broad and reaching selection than a single card that is not even the be all and end all in its place. I mean Storm is just going to bounce it and kill you anyway. That is if they are not playing TES (Like you should be if your playing storm) and just shrugging it off in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish
Storm has an easier a time removing resistor effects. They board in abrupt decay... At least leyline can't be abrupt decayed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
And it's a preference thing. Leyline answers matchups resistor effects don't. And resistor effects answer things like elves that leylines don't.
I think making a blanket statement that your board is better is just wrong. I was just pointing out options and what I happen to play.
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Actually, leylines are much harder to deal with than anything you board in against storm. If we can drop a leyline, than we just hold all of our REB effects for chain of vapor and they can't win unless they make goblins., and we have other cards for that. It also keeps them from turn 1 digressing your hate before you get a chance to play it. I will say however that leyline is by no means an auto-win against burn. It certainly helps, but cards like smash to smithereens, eidolon, price if progress, flame rift, etc can definitely still get there. They just use all their targeted burn to pave the way for their creature beat down. At one time I was playing leylines plus stoneforge package and still would sometimes have a hard time with the matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
I do really like leylines though and definitely recommend people give them a shot, as they are also really good against pox, jund, belcher, and even playable in the shardless BUG matchup.
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I've tried leyline against storm and it has never done anything for me. They know it's out from the beginning and adjust their game plan from the start.
I have played leyline in local tournaments where I expect 2+ burn players. When you have 2 on burn and only 10-15 people, you will likely see one of them in the 4 rounds. I generally bring in 3 and cut 1 yard hate spell (usually a crypt) one of my firebolts and the extra magus from my board.
If you don't have a high chance of facing burn, it's basically a waste of space. It has some value against very discard heavy decks, but they have to be running hymn + lily + inquisition for the value to really outweigh the cost of having potential dead draws in your deck. Pox is not really high tier, although you may find a Pikula or Stoneblade player that will run a pretty heavy discard suite. Other than that, let's face it, leyline is there for one deck and one deck only. I wouldn't take it to a major event.
Today was my first day with the deck. My results (with monored version)
2x1 UWBg Deathblade
2x1 UBWg Deathblade
2x1 UBWg Deathblade
0x2 Belcher
2x1 Belcher
2x0 Belcher
1x2 Burn
2x0 Burn
1x2 Burn
The deck is really funny! Sensei's Divining top is really powerfull. Koth is excelent against Burn. Sudden demise and trinisphere won the Games against belcher..
Now I want to test the RW version. Thanks for your help, we need keep talking to get more ideias! :)
This might be a help to you, Tiago. I thought it was on the front page of this thread but I was mistaken. Earlier this year Jack and Seth gave me a lot of help compiling a pretty deep primer on Imperial Painter, both Mono Red and the Shortcake version. Give it a read and hopefully you won't have to reinvent the wheel too much.
http://www.mtgfanatic.com/Articles/V...aspx?ID=224917
http://www.mtgfanatic.com/Articles/V...aspx?ID=225211
http://www.mtgfanatic.com/articles/v...aspx?id=225505
Thanks Jandax, the articles were really helpful! I disagree with some points, like plains in MD in the RW version, but the texts gave me a different point of view. I will build a Boros version with 2 plateau, 6 fetch lands, 4 tomb, 3 cities, 4 mountain and 1 great furnance for test. I think this mana-base is solid and consistent. I will also put 4 simian and 2 lotus petal. Lets see what happen!
You probably read over the part where I explain the deck editor is bugged, and plains were Ancient Tomb proxies :tongue:
Plus, don't go changing lists that you pick up. We run three SSG's for a reason. Get a couple hundred games under your belt with the deck before you go tinkering with numbers because as it stands, it's as close to optimal as it can get (unless WotC prints a bomb for the deck in coming sets, etc) The point being, in order to play the deck as tightly as possible one needs to learn how the deck fans out not only on an average draw, but with mulligans factored in, as well as having gamed enough against a gauntlet of competitive decks. Nothing beats tournament experience, so just sleeve up Jack or Seth's list and play it regularly for a few months. You'll learn about the deck than any forum or article could teach you
What do you think about this list? Would you change something?Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Main deck (60 cartas)
3 City of Traitors
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Great Furnace
3 Arid Mesa
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
4 Ancient Tomb
20 lands
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Goblin Welder
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Painter's Servant
17 creatures
4 Blood Moon
3 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Lotus Petal
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Grindstone
2 Enlightened Tutor
23 other spells
Sideboard (15 cartas)
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Manic Vandal
3 creatures
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Warmth
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Rest in Peace
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Pyrokinesis
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Sudden Demise
1 Trinisphere
12 other spells
I want to set a list to practice.
Just copy Jack's list from the front page, you're not far off and I'll explain the slight differences:
Maindeck:
Shave a REB for a Pyroblast because in a pinch you can just burn one to get your hand count down under a Bridge.
Cut an SSG for a third Welder. Look to your Grindstones as a tool, not just one half of a combo. You can mill yourself and Welder in things you mill.
Cut a fetchland for a second MD Revoker.
SB:
In testing, you want a solid Maindeck to start with. This is already provided for you, so initially your focus should be on learning the in's and out's of the main deck, and average draws over a length of time. This will help you calculate percentages more accurately in tournament play. The sideboard is where you get to tweak things around. Making the correct SB calls starts with knowing your metagame. So once you are competent with the maindeck, and you know your matchups, you can easily identify weak cards in the MD and supply better substitutes from the side.
My suggestion? Play a lot of Magic!
Thank you for the tips!! Really! Well, I set the list, now I'll train a lot! I'll just let the 20 lands. I think it's really important have the fetch lands to get Plateau when you need. I cut a SSG for a revoker and I cut a REB for a Pyroblast.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
I'am REALLY HAPPY with this deck. Few MTG players can say "I have a set of Imperial Recruiters." =D
For me, the strategy is the same as against OmniTell. Remove your grindstones and most of your blood moons. Bring in thorn of amethyst and any other cards you have which make the game annoying for the Sneak Show player. Ensnaring bridge is amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago
I never try to use the combo with Tormod's crypt (or surgical extraction or anything similar).
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=72112
Looks like painter took 13th at SCG Washington DC.
This list is interesting. Basically Jack's RW list, but cut 1 REB & 1 Ensnaring Bridge for a Spellskite and a another Magus of the Moon.
The board is also an interesting mix.
I cut a revoker for a Spellskite myself recently, and have been super happy with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkfrosting
Like I said, I just dont think you are playing Leyline right against storm decks. If you turn zero the Leyline, then hold all of your pyroblasts and LEDs for their bounce spells. They can't duress your REBs under Leyline and they basically can't win with Leyline in play. Yes, they can make goblins, but any number of other sideboard cards can deal with those (ie. sudden demise, pyroclasm, e.explosives, ratchet bomb, etc). Just don't waste your pyroblasts on cards like ponder, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnsungHero
Someone explain the spellskite to me. Is it just for general protection for your combo? Or is it important for a particular matchup? I was under the impression that most of the people on this forum thought it was generally bad. The only real benefit I can see is to absorb jitte counters. Thanks for any other insight.
One other question, weren't some people trying to fit some equipment in their maindeck? Which is the best? Right note I'm leaning towards one jitte, mostly since it doubles as creature removal and life gain. I could see sword of fire and ice being good as well other than the nombo with painter on blue.
Jack and Seth made mention of this somewhere in the thread. Spellskite is awesome in your opening 7 or when you natural draw into it. The problem is you most likely will never recruit for it since it is almost always better to grab another Painter/Welder. So unless you find it naturally another Welder in its place is the 75 is always better IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
Sword of Fire and Ice is definitely a nombo. Not sure about MD equip I am trying 1 Jitte and 1 Sword of Light and Shadow in the SB.
Swords don't work well with Bridges, and while Jitte is a stellar card, don't forget this is a Painter-Stone deck, not a dork beatdown deck.