[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Entreat is bullshit. Why would you splash white if you have the on-color man-plan in Pyromancer or EtW at hand? Because you believe YOU can grind out Miracles with THEIR OWN tech?

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I believe you don't splash white, you just use your LEDs. I never tried them and I first read of them 10 minutes ago, but they could be a sweeper proof version of Etw. You was saying, with right, to another user that is not worth it to play EtW when everybody have tons of hate in their boards to deal with TNN, but if you think about it there's no way for these decks to remove the angels, unless for EE or some "random" stuff. Don't tell me I want to beat Miracles with their cards, because I just asked him how it goes in the Miracles match-up.

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Originally Posted by Ghiwo

Do you board in both chain of vapor and decay? Just asking, because I always fear to dilute too much my deck if I bring in also decay, so I just board 3 chains.


@Rokkastut: Entreat the Angels is nice, can I ask you what are the match-ups you bring it in? Is it good against Team America? Don't you fear Terminus and EE when you board it vs. Miracles? Thanks :smile:

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Usualy against burn i side like this:
-4 duress
-2 sensei
-1 nauseam
+2 chain
+3 decay
+1 tendrills

You throw away bad cards for better ones. I know that eidolon is less tan 38% of a problem. But when it comes is a huge one. So I dont wanna loose. Also you can decay a goblin guide, pyrostatic pilar, or reliq away.

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Originally Posted by Ghiwo

I believe you don't splash white, you just use your LEDs. I never tried them and I first read of them 10 minutes ago, but they could be a sweeper proof version of Etw. You was saying, with right, to another user that is not worth it to play EtW when everybody have tons of hate in their boards to deal with TNN, but if you think about it there's no way for these decks to remove the angels, unless for EE or some "random" stuff. Don't tell me I want to beat Miracles with their cards, because I just asked him how it goes in the Miracles match-up.

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It's not worth to BOARD INTO EtW because of all the sweepers. Boarding in a card which is off-color, still does nothing against EE/Toxic Deluge/etc AND needs setup in the Form of SDT+LED is even worse. If a player is fine with such high requirements, I need to ask why more economic and less clunky options like Pyromancer got dismissed for the "man plan"

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

It's not worth to BOARD INTO EtW because of all the sweepers. Boarding in a card which is off-color, still does nothing against EE/Toxic Deluge/etc AND needs setup in the Form of SDT+LED is even worse. If a player is fine with such high requirements, I need to ask why more economic and less clunky options like Pyromancer got dismissed for the "man plan"

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Did you try the card? I'm asking to the guy who's playing it, he seems quite happy with it. :wink:
Anyway I believe that it could be good in match-ups where you would anyways play your LEDs and petals and board in your second SDT. Also, Deluge is played just in Shardless BUG, and I feel no need to change plan in such a favorable match-up. Against Team America could be good, but i really don't know since I didn't try it. Again, I'm asking to him, because he is the one who plays it.

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Originally Posted by Ghiwo

I believe you don't splash white, you just use your LEDs. I never tried them and I first read of them 10 minutes ago, but they could be a sweeper proof version of Etw. You was saying, with right, to another user that is not worth it to play EtW when everybody have tons of hate in their boards to deal with TNN, but if you think about it there's no way for these decks to remove the angels, unless for EE or some "random" stuff. Don't tell me I want to beat Miracles with their cards, because I just asked him how it goes in the Miracles match-up.

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I tried that 1-2 MD in Doomsday 1-2 years ago, resulted into some awesome moments (like win vs Cannonist+ Mindcensor+ Leonine arbiter) and some clunky keeps, stuff like T2 5 angels is possible but no significant improvement overall (played in only 2 tournaments or so), looked stronger vs. permanent based hate rather than counterspells for what I remember

Actually I have a 5C "special" I wanted to try out this week for fun, feat. 10 W cards in the board

Thanks a lot for your help, I was just asking, I like trying new cards. I hoped it could be good against Team America, because I bring in my second SDT and if they board out some decays I usually land my LEDs to protect them from Hymns. I believe that is a very though match-up unless you play perfectly and the deck helps you a bit, so I hoped we found a new card to achieve some free wins with.

Hi! A bit late but I post the results of this week, the forth one of testing in cockatrice. I try to play only against Good players, if i see an oponent playing horribly or doing lots of mistakes i simply don't note the results.

This week i've played only 13 games, winning all of them, with 2 preordains, 1 Grim tutor and 7 discard spells and the next sideboard:

3 Dread of night
3 Abrupt decay
2 Sensei's divining top
2 Xantid swarm
2 Surgical extraction
2 Chain of vapor
1 Krosan grip

After 4 weeks the result is 73-18, more than an 80%. In the only medium/big tournament i've played these last weeks I unfortunately reached the 10th place after a 5-1-1 result (began the day losing to being too sleepy,stupid me). Here are the results classified by matchups:

VS MIRACLES: 12-4
VS TEAM AMERICA 1-0
VS UR DELVER 2-0
VS DEATHBLADE: 3-1
VS JESKAI STONEBLADE: 3-0
VS PATRIOT: 2-1
VS ANT: 3-0
VS OMMITELL
VS SNEAK ATTACK 0-1
VS CANADIAN 4-1
VS BRUG TEMPO: 0-1
VS DEATH AND TAXES: 6-1
VS REANIMATOR: 1-0
VS GWB ZENITH: 2-1
VS UW STONEBLADE 2-0
VS BURN: 1-0
VS JUND: 1-0
VS BUG SHARDLESS 3-1
VS MUD
VS ELVES: 5-1
VS PAINTERS: 1-0
VS DREDGE: 2-0
VS JUNK ROCK 2-0
VS MERFOLKS 1-0
VS GRIXIS DELVER 1-0
VS GRIXIS CONTROL 1-1
VS STIFLENOUGHT: 1-0
VS NIC FIT 1-0
VS BW POX 0-1
VS LANDS: 1-0
VS BIG RED: 1-0
VS DARK DEPTHS 2-1
VS JESKAI ASCENDANCY 1-1
VS AFFINITY: 1-0
VS BUG CONTROL 1-0
VS SLIVERS: 1-0
VS GOBLIN STOMPY 0-1
VS ZOMBARDMENT 1-0
VS INFECT 1-0

Happy with the Good results against miracles, delver decks, stoneblade, death&Taxes and.Elves. I'd like to test a lot more against Team America, i think it's the worst pairing we.have, but playing perfectly can turn it into a 60/40 maybe.

I'll keep posting!

Hello,

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Originally Posted by Togores

Yeah sometimes 2nd sensei is really good. Sometimes its slow. Depends on matchups.
Also i think u side not enought answers vs eidolon. I also side in decays. Dont wanna loose cold to that card.

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I did not see any Eidelon in game one, but he played 4 Grim Lavamancer, 4 Goblin Guide and 4 Vexing Devil, so I felt keeping the discard was a safer choice (to take out Mindbreak Trap), against other burn builds I would probably have sided different.

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Originally Posted by Ghiwo

@Rokkastut: Entreat the Angels is nice, can I ask you what are the match-ups you bring it in? Is it good against Team America? Don't you fear Terminus and EE when you board it vs. Miracles? Thanks :smile:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Entreat is bullshit. Why would you splash white if you have the on-color man-plan in Pyromancer or EtW at hand? Because you believe YOU can grind out Miracles with THEIR OWN tech?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ghiwo

I believe you don't splash white, you just use your LEDs. I never tried them and I first read of them 10 minutes ago, but they could be a sweeper proof version of Etw. You was saying, with right, to another user that is not worth it to play EtW when everybody have tons of hate in their boards to deal with TNN, but if you think about it there's no way for these decks to remove the angels, unless for EE or some "random" stuff. Don't tell me I want to beat Miracles with their cards, because I just asked him how it goes in the Miracles match-up.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

It's not worth to BOARD INTO EtW because of all the sweepers. Boarding in a card which is off-color, still does nothing against EE/Toxic Deluge/etc AND needs setup in the Form of SDT+LED is even worse. If a player is fine with such high requirements, I need to ask why more economic and less clunky options like Pyromancer got dismissed for the "man plan"

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Strong opinions about this one... ETA has worked perfect for me in playtesting. Especially against decks with discard (Jund, Pox, BUG etc) and also Miracles. Considering I only need a single LED in play or two Lotus Petals, the color/cost of the card has never been an issue. Also with two Sensei's Divining Top maindeck (and ofcourse the 4 Brainstorm) there is usually not a problem to get it on top of library either. I have chosen this card instead of Pyromancer because of the; surprise factor (not many see it coming so they are usually not prepared), if the coast is clear it's a one card win (better than Ad Nauseam), and it is hard to deal with if they don't have EE. It is also just a 1 SB card commitment in the flex slot. I have considered to change it, but at the current moment it works very good. I understand some of you would prefer other options, please do, so I still can have the surprise factor in the future :-)

Miracles usually leaves some sweepers in for EtW/Pyromancer/etc. and with all their Library Manipulation, it's pure gambling to ride the man-plan to victory, especially if it's an all-in-move like Entreat with pretty iffY setup via double Petal/LED and "only" 2 SDT.

The appeal of Pyromancer was it's low commitment cost to Force Miracles into a position of having to waste resources to deal with it instead of establishing a lock. Entreat however is an unprotected YOLO move (because protecting it as an instant with active mana-invesent via Discard is counter-intuitive) which loses the game if it meets a Counterspell/Stifle/Pierce/Flusterstorm/etc. I can barely think of a scenario in which Entreat is a better topdeck against a defenseless opponent than AN or PIF

Surfinbird - nice, will track my stats too
Rokkastutt+Ghiwo - I dont consider it tested by me by no means, just general impression, I can see potentional from EtA in those far behind situations, where only a miracle can save you, extended permanent hate, low on card and life etc. on the other hand it does not seem consistent or systematic enough, I'd think it very weak vs. Miracles on it's own, where it suffers a one trick pony effect like pyromancer, also playing out leds vs EE ans Snapcaster+disenchant/weartear is not optimal... But might be playable vs. UBG postboard as it's space efficient an there is no clear sb card for the MU

Hi Everyone,

Just returning from a small trip (from one state to another) for the Legacy Champs side event at GP Mexico 2015.

Played with ANT, the deck list is the following:

http://imagebin.ca/v/1qO7mEQgsdUe

I do apologize for the bad writting :eek:

I was ranked 9th out of 50 ppl.

There was a total of 6 rounds and then top 8, this is my first Legacy "Big" Event, as the legacy scene where I'm is mostly vague and almost not played, nevertheless that has not stopped me at all in order to get all my cards and build a decent legacy collection.

so , here it is a small report.

Round 1 - Rafa with BURN

Game 1 : He does not know what I'm playing , this is my slight advantage until he drops turn one goblin guide revealing a infernal tutor, his turn two I pray for him not having Eidolon and he doesn't but, this does not matter as he dropped 1 more goblin and 2 Swiftspears, a bit of burn added sealed the deal.

Sideboard: - 1 Ad Nauseam, -3 Duress, - 1 Preordain, - 1 SDT , + 1 Tendrils of Agony, +3 Abrupt decay, +2 CoV

Game 2: Turn 1 volcanic island + ponder, to find a Cabal Therapy, pass the turn, his first turn was goblin guide revealing basic swamp, turn 2 I cast CT naming Eidolong to find land, pyrostatic pillar :rolleyes: , swiftspear, bolt and PoP, place land and pass the turn. his turn two attacked and put Pyrostatic in play. Turn 3 brainstorm sculpt my hand to a nice tendrils x8 leaving him at 2 and me on 15+ , turns later I find tendrils #2 and win. Him not being able to cast anything and only hitting with Goblin Guide was a relief.

Game 3: He mulls to 5, gets flooded and go with the match.

1-0

Round 2 - Armando with Miracles

Game 1: Win the dice, gitaxian probe reveals Jace, Counterspell, Top, land, land, swords to plowshares, entreat the angels, take the Top , then I put land, DR, DR, LED, Petal, Infernal put land on the GY go for Ad Nauseam and win.

I]Sideboard: - 1 Duress, -1 Cabal Therapy, - 1 Preordain, 1 Gitaxian Probe, 1 Lotus Petal, 1 SDT - , +3 Abrupt decay, +2 XS + 1 FS [/I]

Game 2 : his turn one was SDT, I casted Blind Cabal Therapy naming Counterbalance, he discard his only counterbalance revealing no counters, next turn I attempt to go off just missing one card from his hand, casted Ad Nauseam, he uses top to see top three, founds nothing and I won.

2-0

Round 3 - Andres with Esper Deathblade

Game 1: I kept a slow hand and with bunch of rituals and the led, was never able to find the tutor, he slowly ripped my hand with thoughtseize , Hymn and Liliana, batterskull and SFM killed me.

Sideboard: - 4 Cabal Therapy , - 1 Preordain , -1 Gitaxian + 3 Abrupt decay, + 1 FS + 2 Massacre

Game 2: I mull to 5 , no Sideboard cards, no SDT, turn 1 duress discards liliana, but he finds another one, never get to recover and die.

2-1

Round 4 - Rodrigo with Elves

Game 1: First games are the easiest as they usually don't know what are you playing, he kept a slow hand, on my turn two I discarded the only Natural Order in his hand and go off on turn three, pretty easy.

Sideboard: I expected discard , gaddock or ruric thar, and possible Null Rod , - 1 Preordain, - 3 Duress , -2 Gitaxian - 2 Lotus Petal , + 3 Abrupt decay, 2 CoV , +1 FS +2 Massacre

Game 2: I really was expecting to win this one after turn 2 I was able to discard NO that was about to be played, but he topdeck another one and I died.
Game 3: Kept a hand with 2 Cabal Ritual, infernal Tutor, SDT, land, Cabal Therapy and ponder, pretty good in my opinion, was sculpting and got 3 Cabal Ritual, I discarded NO again, but he found Cabal Therapy discarding Infernal and flashbacking for the rituals, he beat me to death with 1/1s .

2-2

Round 5 - Andrea with BUG Delver (Italian guy)

Game 1: He had 2 Deathrite shaman on play , no counters and they were both active, only 1 Bayou is untapped, my turn, I started to go off and pray , thank god the match was not familiar for him , casted past in flames, and after I flashbacked the first ritual he responded by removing Past In Flames, I was crying in tears of Joy, I said .... OK :wink: , and continue with my thing, he stopped me and told me : You can't do that, past in flames needs to be in the graveyard for you to do that , I explained him how the card works and Win.

Sideboard: - 4 Cabal Therapy , - 1 Preordain , -2 Gitaxian -1 Lotus Petal / + 3 Abrupt decay, + 1 FS + 2 CoV + 2 Carpet of Flowers

Game 2: My hand was good, 1 island and SDT, He played delver on turn 1 and did not flipped until turn 5, he flooded as a Lands deck and I see no other land until turn 6 or 7, had everything but black mana for a few turns , he played Chill (?) which I was cool with, and after he left me on 3 life, my last turn, decided not to use Top ability because all my rituals were cabal ritual, draw no land, spin the top ....... LAND !!!!!! god bless you SDT, Cabal Ritual ? No Daze, with 5 mana I used 1 discard spell to see no Counterspells, and was able to go off from there.

3-2

Round 6 Jose with Maverick

Game 1 : Cantrip hand and good value spells meet a turn 2 thalia , all my dreams tear apart from that game, I tried with all my heart to go off, but not enough rituals made it impossibru.

Sideboard: - 3 Duress , - 1 Preordain , -1 Lotus Petal - 1 Gitaxian Probe - 1 SDT / + 3 Abrupt decay, + 2 CoV +2 Massacre

Game 2: He did played Thalia, but a good guy Massacre wipe his board away, a turn later I started to combo off, made a huge mistake and used Flashback infernal tutor to go for a ritual, but in my head a second infernal was in the yard, but it was not, as I was not aware of it, I continued comboing , counting mana and spells, opponent stopped me and conceded for game three, friends told me of my mistake later.

Game 3: He was packed, Thalia , Mother of runes, Scavenging Ooze, Knight and Surgical , Deathrite Shaman, but only one land, he Rushes himself to see my hand using surgical on one of my ponders, he saw double CoV , LED, Infernal, Rituals, when everything was on play, End of Turn CoV to mother, then Main Phase CoV to thalia was enough to be able to chain the spells for the win.

4-2

I got away with 12 points in 9th place, I was really expecting to see more Delver Decks , but 2 Elves and Show and Tell/Omniscience , Esper 2 Lands and UWR Stoneblade decks made the top.

What I learn?

• 2 SDT on main is just sweet, this was in place of preordain and Grim tutor before , I was grateful on my matches to see them instead of the other 2 cards that were replaced, I ended up trading the Grim tutor in the event for other cards and money.
  
• Tendrils of agony in the sideboard just saved my ass against Burn in round 1, I appreciate Rodrigo Advice and made the switch instead of using Empty the Warrens.
  
• Even when you are loosing or have nothing in hand, don't get nervous in the face of the opponent, this win me a match on round 6.
  
• 6 rounds is not a big big event but still you need to eat something :s
  

Overall, this was a great event, all my opponents were great players and nice people, nerves go away after round 2, there is always room to improve, I'm more and more convinced now that ANT is the deck I want to play, feels powerful even with all the discard running out there.

Thanks for reading and for all your comments.

Some more questions:

What's better in the MD? Badlands or Bayou?

Why sideboard an extra copy of Tendrils?

Why sideboard an extra copy of Ad Nauseam?

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Originally Posted by KevinH

Some more questions:

What's better in the MD? Badlands or Bayou?

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It depends on what cards you want to support. If you rely heavily on cantrips instead of Top or w/e, theres a case for running neither because theyre not blue sources. If you run Xantid Swarm and Decay heavily, you probably want Bayou. If you run Pyromancers or something else red intensive, you want Badlands.

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Originally Posted by KevinH

Why sideboard an extra copy of Tendrils?

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Resiliency. Being able to build natural storm against counters or burn is valuable against decks like Delver, Stoneblade etc.

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Originally Posted by KevinH

Why sideboard an extra copy of Ad Nauseam?

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Speed. Ad Nauseam is a fast, albeit unstable, way to to pounce in combo mirrors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KevinH

Some more questions:

What's better in the MD? Badlands or Bayou?

Why sideboard an extra copy of Tendrils?

Why sideboard an extra copy of Ad Nauseam?

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1.It depends on your sideboard configuration. If you play abrupt decay, krosan grip, xantid swarm, city of solitude or carpet of flowers, you should play Bayou. If in your sideboard are more red cards (young pyromancer, pyroclasm, empty the warrens) than green ones, then play bayou.

2. It works well in the miracles pairing, where storm spells are always good. Also is a good card to swamp with Ad Nauseam against decks with a fast clock. I haven't played it, so other players will explain the reasons better than me.

3. It makes our deck faster, so it's good against other combo decks. Works well against really slow decks like miracles or lands i imagine. Again, i haven't tested this option, but i think i'd never play it without at least one chrome mox to support it, like Kai does.

So, in my current sideboard I'm playing a good number of both Green and Red cards.

3 Xantid Swarm
2 Carpet of Flowers
3 Abrupt Decay

2 Pyroclasm
1 Empty the Warrens

Even though I have more Green cards than Red, I still feel like I would rather have the Badlands. My logic is that matchups in which you would want the Green cards are ones where your lone Tropical Island is most likely to be safe. However, the matchups where you want Pyroclasm and Empty the Warrens are against decks that likely contain Wasteland. Does that make sense?

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Originally Posted by KevinH

So, in my current sideboard I'm playing a good number of both Green and Red cards.

3 Xantid Swarm
2 Carpet of Flowers
3 Abrupt Decay

2 Pyroclasm
1 Empty the Warrens

Even though I have more Green cards than Red, I still feel like I would rather have the Badlands. My logic is that matchups in which you would want the Green cards are ones where your lone Tropical Island is most likely to be safe. However, the matchups where you want Pyroclasm and Empty the Warrens are against decks that likely contain Wasteland. Does that make sense?

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Out of curiosity, what Wasteland deck are you bringing 'Clasm in against?

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Originally Posted by wonderPreaux

Out of curiosity, what Wasteland deck are you bringing 'Clasm in against?

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D&T and UWR Delver/Other Meddling Mage decks (Deathblade)

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Originally Posted by KevinH

D&T and UWR Delver/Other Meddling Mage decks (Deathblade)

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I think Decay is probably fine there, as cracking fetches in their end step and decaying stops them from playing another hate bear that turn or, in the case of UWx, countering your removal. In that particular case, I'm inclined to think that Bayou would be better because 'Clasm isn't that necessary for you.

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Originally Posted by wonderPreaux

I think Decay is probably fine there, as cracking fetches in their end step and decaying stops them from playing another hate bear that turn or, in the case of UWx, countering your removal. In that particular case, I'm inclined to think that Bayou would be better because 'Clasm isn't that necessary for you.

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Quite often, I find myself facing down not just one hatebear but a whole gang - Thalia, Revoker, Canonist, Spirit, etc.

I certainly do bring in Decay, but I don't agree that Pyroclasm isn't necessary. Pyroclasm is also good against UWR because not only does it remove bears, it also buys you time if you need to, killing both Delver and SFM in addition to the other sideboarded x/2s.

@firefight

Congrats on your result Bro. Semms like the adviced helped you. at least for my part I would have sidebarded completly diferent in some matchups.

R1 Burn
YOU
Sideboard: - 1 Ad Nauseam, -3 Duress, - 1 Preordain, - 1 SDT , + 1 Tendrils of Agony, +3 Abrupt decay, +2 CoV
ME
Sideboard: - 1 Ad Nauseam, -3 Duress, , - 2 SDT , + 1 Tendrils of Agony, +3 Abrupt decay, +2 CoV

You need to move fast, and preordain lets you be faster than sensei.

R2 Miracles

I]Sideboard: - 1 Duress, -1 Cabal Therapy, - 1 Preordain, 1 Gitaxian Probe, 1 Lotus Petal, 1 SDT - , +3 Abrupt decay, +2 XS + 1 FS [/I]
if you wanna board the xantid:
-2 therapy -1 preordain -2 lotus -1 island
+1 tendrills +3 decay +2 xantid

Flsuterstorm is bad against counterbalance
alsoyou can let the therapys there and not board the xantids
You can also side out 2 cabal ritual and board in 2 carpets, depends if they have explosives, rest in pieces and so on.


R3 DEATHBLADE

Sideboard: - 4 Cabal Therapy , - 1 Preordain , -1 Gitaxian + 3 Abrupt decay, + 1 FS + 2 Massacre

Does it had wastelands? more than 2? hymns?

I would never side out discard vs a blue deck if they are not a combo one where I put in xantid.

Also I NEVER EVER EVER BOARD OUT GITAXiAN. The card is just nuts.

Also I only board fluster vs combo decks, storm, elves or show and tell.

-1 preordain -2 petals (low on wasteland)
+3 decay or
-2 petals -1 preordain -1 island (no wasteland)
+2 massacre +2 decay
-2 petals (full wastelands)
+2 massacre

This is never a 100% sb because this kind of decks can change so much.

R4 elves
Sideboard: I expected discard , gaddock or ruric thar, and possible Null Rod , - 1 Preordain, - 3 Duress , -2 Gitaxian - 2 Lotus Petal , + 3 Abrupt decay, 2 CoV , +1 FS +2 Massacre

-1 swamp -3 therapy +2 chain +2 flusterstorm

r5 Bug delver

I would side nothing. May be
-1 preordain -1 petal/sensei +2 chain for null rod or deathrite chaman.

r6 maverik

Sideboard: - 3 Duress , - 1 Preordain , -1 Lotus Petal - 1 Gitaxian Probe - 1 SDT / + 3 Abrupt decay, + 2 CoV +2 Massacre


Here you have to be fast if they live to his turn 3 you are dead I think.
-1 preordain -2 sensei -4 duress (im not so sure, striping zenith is cool may be -3 therapy depends on what kind of deck they play). +3 decay +2 massacre +2 chain

Thats my thoughts. Maverik and bug delver always give me hard problems when sideboarding. And also deathblade depends a lot on what cards they play.