[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

@starscream - I havent made it to the Wed legacy for a while now unfortunately. Hopefully this week.

(As a side note, they changed the payout (was 4-0 = $100 cash, 3-0-1 was $60 so 3-0ing led to a fair amount of draws) from large cash payouts to smaller $15 -> $10 buy in to store credit as well. From their standpoint i can see it but a lot of the community now doesnt see the wed mead hall as smth to try to get to and more of if free)

My list is probably pretty close. I am on 4 gitaxian probe, 3 strix, 2 snap, 3 dig through time and 1 Thragtusk as "flex spots". I also have 1 pulse main instead of the 3rd decay. I also am only on 2 deed right now. I think the reason BUG decks vary so much more wildly is that the deck can be played in so many different ways than smth like Junk or Jund. This does lead to a less consistent across lists than the other 2 as 75's become much less optimized.

If I run this on Wed I will post the list I use. With miracles and omni being big I would not hesitate to run probe over ponder right now. This deck (Nic fit in general, I do know blue lists will sometimes run force md) has only therapy for relevant early game disruption so probe maximizing seeing and hitting therapy on turn 1 or 2 is worth it for me. Turning therapy from a % chance to hit to for sure is a big upgrade. Anybody that says they know what to name is kidding themselves if they say that probe is not valuable. The question becomes is that single use worth it. I think when playing with dig and snapcaster it is.

Somebody a while back was wondering why snapcaster in the deck. I play 2 because they are additional bstorms basically. 75% of the time that is what they flash back. then they sac to therapy or jump for jace. They also have git probe with therapy, as well as pulse and decay for removal and honestly flash back on dig is not that hard with this deck. I would not run 4 but having access to to them throughout the game is certainly nice. They especially help post board when you bring in more discard in TS, as well as counters in negate (possibly dispel) and of course the old surgical smth and then do it again against omni.

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Originally Posted by Tom4ik

@starscream - I havent made it to the Wed legacy for a while now unfortunately. Hopefully this week.

(As a side note, they changed the payout (was 4-0 = $100 cash, 3-0-1 was $60 so 3-0ing led to a fair amount of draws) from large cash payouts to smaller $15 -> $10 buy in to store credit as well. From their standpoint i can see it but a lot of the community now doesnt see the wed mead hall as smth to try to get to and more of if free)

My list is probably pretty close. I am on 4 gitaxian probe, 3 strix, 2 snap, 3 dig through time and 1 Thragtusk as "flex spots". I also have 1 pulse main instead of the 3rd decay. I also am only on 2 deed right now. I think the reason BUG decks vary so much more wildly is that the deck can be played in so many different ways than smth like Junk or Jund. This does lead to a less consistent across lists than the other 2 as 75's become much less optimized.

If I run this on Wed I will post the list I use. With miracles and omni being big I would not hesitate to run probe over ponder right now. This deck (Nic fit in general, I do know blue lists will sometimes run force md) has only therapy for relevant early game disruption so probe maximizing seeing and hitting therapy on turn 1 or 2 is worth it for me. Turning therapy from a % chance to hit to for sure is a big upgrade. Anybody that says they know what to name is kidding themselves if they say that probe is not valuable. The question becomes is that single use worth it. I think when playing with dig and snapcaster it is.

Somebody a while back was wondering why snapcaster in the deck. I play 2 because they are additional bstorms basically. 75% of the time that is what they flash back. then they sac to therapy or jump for jace. They also have git probe with therapy, as well as pulse and decay for removal and honestly flash back on dig is not that hard with this deck. I would not run 4 but having access to to them throughout the game is certainly nice. They especially help post board when you bring in more discard in TS, as well as counters in negate (possibly dispel) and of course the old surgical smth and then do it again against omni.

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After playing Grixis Control for a while, I can agree with your thoughts on Probe. I do still feel like there needs to be more win conditions over further additional cantrips (Ponders etc), but Dig is a bit of a game changer and not having to worry about Therapy sniping and just getting a guaranteed hit on what I -know- will hurt them the worst, rather than what I expect will hurt them the worst, is actually a pretty big game.

The main problem I've always had philosophically is the deck space that Probe takes up -- not anything against the card itself or its synergies within the deck. It has a lot of things going for it...I just worry about getting into situations where we're cantripping too much and failing to advance the game state. That's actually something that ultimately frustrated me about Grixis Control to the point of setting it aside for a while. When you run 4 Bstorm, 4 Ponder, 4 Probe, 4 Dig....you just spend so much time drawing cards that you definitely have games where you just literally die because you never cantrip into anything worth playing that actually changes the game. When it works, it feels broken -- but the cantrip shell actually has a much less % of working than I expected going in. I honestly don't know how people can stomach running the version that also runs 4 Preordains. I really don't.

Now, if I were tinkering with a blue shell, I think that something like 3 Brainstorm, 2 Top, 4 Probe, 2 Dig Through Time would be a pretty reasonable start, especially if there's a Snapcaster or two and an E-Wit floating around. 11 cantrips / draw spells, not counting things like Jace, doesn't seem that bad to me. 4 Brainstorm / 1 Top may well be correct in a Dig Through Time world, I've just always found the 3/2 split to be nice.

I can agree that we do not want to get into the space of to much cantripping into additional draw spells. I think 4 Brainstorm is the bare minimum and would EITHER play 4 probe OR 2-3 ponder. I also think 2-3 dig through times is where the bug deck wants to be as well. Seeing 7 and then if we grab jace or brainstorm in order to see 10 cards is just insane. I like playing multiple walkers because they synergy nicely with the deed plus chump blocks of strix and snap very well.

I lean more towards probe right now but if you are looking for more space for bombs I would think cutting those but then running a few ponders instead. If we are looking for additional bombs 2 thoughts would be that
1- For me they would need to be blue. I run 4 Fow and as bad a card as it is in a lot of matchups there is a reason it is the glue of the format. This deck with snap, strix, deed, lily, jace, and dig is just a pile of 2 for 1's. We can get that card back. I want the option to pitch a fat thing early.
2- I would need the card to be useful in the matchups that you are most likely going to see. So Omni, Miracles, grixis and Bug delver. Useful is that it requires an answer within a turn.

Basically this means Consecrated sphinx is where I would go if I were to play a 6 mana spell. I know it dies to reb/swords against both of those decks. If they do not have it within 1 turn they will probably lose. AND they cannot cantrip into it without you being ok with it.

I honestly would be more inclined to play 4 drops (archmage, notion, Thrun) than I would be to play 5s or 6s however. I do think Sphinx is about the only 1 I would be ok playing as the value with that card is absurd right now. In fact, if we want multiple 5 or 6 drops I would either play two Tusks or add 2 sphinx.

@arianrhod vintage- I know you are headed to EW for vintage. I think grixis thieves is in a great spot. The version I played was just restricted card.dec and I went 4/5 against shops. Both game 1s I won on the back of Dack. The next 2 times were an early tinker. the first I made blightsteel, which got metamorphed (so I cantripped Dack and stole it....) The next shops game 2 had cage, 1 turn 2 before I could have turn 2 tinkered. So of course I have lotus and topdeck key so I get to sac mox and take all the turns.....) The hands felt bad a lot of the time but it mulliganed fantasically. just some thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Tom4ik

I can agree that we do not want to get into the space of to much cantripping into additional draw spells. I think 4 Brainstorm is the bare minimum and would EITHER play 4 probe OR 2-3 ponder. I also think 2-3 dig through times is where the bug deck wants to be as well. Seeing 7 and then if we grab jace or brainstorm in order to see 10 cards is just insane. I like playing multiple walkers because they synergy nicely with the deed plus chump blocks of strix and snap very well.

I lean more towards probe right now but if you are looking for more space for bombs I would think cutting those but then running a few ponders instead. If we are looking for additional bombs 2 thoughts would be that
1- For me they would need to be blue. I run 4 Fow and as bad a card as it is in a lot of matchups there is a reason it is the glue of the format. This deck with snap, strix, deed, lily, jace, and dig is just a pile of 2 for 1's. We can get that card back. I want the option to pitch a fat thing early.
2- I would need the card to be useful in the matchups that you are most likely going to see. So Omni, Miracles, grixis and Bug delver. Useful is that it requires an answer within a turn.

Basically this means Consecrated sphinx is where I would go if I were to play a 6 mana spell. I know it dies to reb/swords against both of those decks. If they do not have it within 1 turn they will probably lose. AND they cannot cantrip into it without you being ok with it.

I honestly would be more inclined to play 4 drops (archmage, notion, Thrun) than I would be to play 5s or 6s however. I do think Sphinx is about the only 1 I would be ok playing as the value with that card is absurd right now. In fact, if we want multiple 5 or 6 drops I would either play two Tusks.

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As a beater, I would pick up aetherling.
Pearl lake/Silumgar are also other options.
If you try to play some dragons, Silumgars (Dragonlord & drifting) look appealing.

I do not fancy Probe. As already mentioned I think Ponder is far better in a lot more use cases.
Pretending to have a better G1 against combo with probe is a path I would not take.

Archmage is a whole reason to play BUG, imho.

I found Thragtusk to be rather clunky in a BUG shell.
Another reason to play Nic Fit is to take profit from being able to play Ooze.
In this meta, I really value Ooze much more than Thragtusk. Messing up with graveyard strategies, opposite DTT, any tempo shell is something I want to have access to.

I am usually playing a weird BUG shell that I have already spoken a lot of. But if anyone wants to play something more straight forward, I would begin with the following:

1 Misty Rainforest
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Ætherling
2 Snapcaster mage
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Baleful Strix
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Dig Through Time
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Ponder

SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Thragtusk
SB: 1 Liliana of the Veil
SB: 1 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay

The sideboard looks like a pile but you get the idea.
MBT is also something to really consider playing right now. The fact that it exiles and does not counter is under estimated.

http://www.mtgpulse.com/event/20827#296226

This is finally online after few weeks. What do you think I should change with my mainboard and sideboard with this metagame? 'cause I put together this list in like 5 minutes before going to event. :D

Hi... need some advice what to place in sideboard in typical punishing fire list. Decks that recently shows are (in order of apperance):

-delvers bug and rug (rarely rub)
-miracles
-reanimators
-D&T

Been playing around with a BUG version recently and while it seems really powerful, it's boring in the way that a lot of blue control is boring to me. Stick a dude, then durdle around with cantrips and counters for a while. The Deeds even feel unnecessary so far, Decay just cleans up anything that wasn't discarded or countered.

Still, Therapy with flashback into Lotion Thief is just so brutal I might have to give it a spin anyway.

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Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

Been playing around with a BUG version recently and while it seems really powerful, it's boring in the way that a lot of blue control is boring to me. Stick a dude, then durdle around with cantrips and counters for a while. The Deeds even feel unnecessary so far, Decay just cleans up anything that wasn't discarded or countered.

Still, Therapy with flashback into Lotion Thief is just so brutal I might have to give it a spin anyway.

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It puts the Lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again!

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Originally Posted by Paranoid__Android

http://www.mtgpulse.com/event/20827#296226

This is finally online after few weeks. What do you think I should change with my mainboard and sideboard with this metagame? 'cause I put together this list in like 5 minutes before going to event. :D

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I would cut Dromoka and Ananfenza for Hymn, more early game disruption.

Do you know the dude in 7th place who played actual 4c modern-style pod?

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Originally Posted by maharis

I would cut Dromoka and Ananfenza for Hymn, more early game disruption.

Do you know the dude in 7th place who played actual 4c modern-style pod?

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I was thinking of playtesting with 2x Dromoka's Command, 1x Night of the Souls Betrayal and 1x Wilt-Leaf Liege and cutting Garruk, Anafenza, 1x Path to Exile and maybe one basic land (too much flooding that day). I'm thinking of leaving Dromoka in main. He saved me every time it hit the board.
Yes, I know him. Why? :D

Back to trying this:

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Path to Exile
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring nightmare

3 Veteran Explorer
4 Siege Rhino
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sylvan Safekeeper

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
2 savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 swamp
2 Plains
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Taiga

2 Slaughter Games
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
2 Krosan Grip
2 Surgical Extraction/Leyline of the Void
2 Gaddock Teeg
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Upped the Sigarda count to try since she's so boss against Miracles, upped the Ooze count to fight the other P. Fire decks and DTT, kept Rhino back up at 4 since he's so good against Grixis do-nothing. Board is much more geared to just beating Omni and Miracles. Veteran Explorer sucks in those matchups, so let's just board in a bunch of high impact awesomeness.

Against Omni:

+2 Canonist
+2 Grip
+2 Games
+1 Charm
+3 TS

Miracles:

+2 Grip
+2 Games
+2 Teeg

I went to the SCG Legacy Super IQ at Indy this summer and got 28th (out of 121) using a list inspired by Matt's Jund Rhino list.

went 4-2-1 The losses were to D&T (greedy keep) and Mono Blue omni tell (he had the turn 2 kill both games and i nailed one of his Show and Tell both games). The draw was to a VERY winnable game 3 against miracles after i slaughter games his Entreat and Jace. Very happy with the deck so far. I run it on MTGO alot too and it seems even better poised to take on that meta. Haven't had time to run a daily yet to see actual results but single que's i am around 70% win rate.

3 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
4 Siege Rhino
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
15

2 Punishing Fire
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Sylvan Library
1 Recurring Nightmare
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Sensei's Divining Top
22

3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Badlands
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained mire
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Taiga
1 Volrath's Stronghold
24

Sideboard

1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
3 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Boil
1 Krosan Grip
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Slaughter Games
1 Golgari Charm
1 Gaddock Teeg

I was testing out today a few games with my friend. He had Merfolk and WRU Delver. I wanted to test out 1x Wilt-Leaf Liege, 2x Dromoka's Commands and Academy Rector-Night of Souls' Betrayal. Build was the same which I've played on the tournament but I -1 Garruk, -1 Anafenza, -1 Path to Exile, -1 Forest, -1 Courser.

Vs. Merfolk, won 2:0 (One game)
- Game one removals and Cabal Therapies kept the field and hands clear for Siege Rhino and Sigarda. Zenith for Wilt-Leaf was lethal.
- Game two I killed one lord with a counter on Sigarda and had to sac her for Invent going for NoSBetrayal. Then Siege and Wilt-Leaf won me the game.

Vs. Delver - 6:2 (Three games)

- First round, I ramped twice with Veterans (he had no basics in main), activaed Deed a few times, then Sigarda and Dromoka killed him.
- Second round, almost the same situation.
- Third round and fourth round lost due to keeping a one land/SDTop hand and getting wasted afterwards. -.-'
- Fifth and Sixth round I managed to get NoSBetrayal online and he couldn't do anything after that.

Conclusions:

Wilt Leaf Liege - He is one of my favourite creatures when in play. 7/7 Sigarda, 7/9 Dromoka, 6/7 trampling Rhino...dreams come true! And with my metagame filled with a few B/X discard decks...win con! Two in main maybe...?

Dromoka's Command - With 2x in main and only 14 (for now) creatures it was not a good card to draw every time. I wanted to test out the +1/+1 counter/fight fusion on Veterans mainly, but I rarely did it. Prevent damage and killing enchantments seems like a good card to keep against Bolts, and similar stuff, but I think they are going out.

Academy Rector - Sacrificing him with unused CTherapy and getting Deed of NoSBetrayal = epic! What are also good targets for Rector if you know some? :D

Night of Souls' Betrayal - that effect on the field is very crucial. -1/-1 on TNN, Delvers, 0/1 Mystics, Adepts, etc. This card buys me time. But, I still need to test this card against GU Infect which I think is a ''secret tech'' in mainboard for next tournament. Killing Agents, Elves and Inkmoths is an epic thing to do! :D

I'm going to be playing a few side events at GP London weekend after next, pretty sure I just want to troll people with Notion Thiefs and Grave Titans, so BUG Nic Fit is on the cards! Any card suggestions to piss people off? :tongue:

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Originally Posted by Dissection

I'm going to be playing a few side events at GP London weekend after next, pretty sure I just want to troll people with Notion Thiefs and Grave Titans, so BUG Nic Fit is on the cards! Any card suggestions to piss people off? :tongue:

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Well, eot Cunning Wish for Hatred, untapping and attacking with Strix can be rather demoralizing.

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Originally Posted by pettdan

Well, eot Cunning Wish for Hatred, untapping and attacking with Strix can be rather demoralizing.

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Ooh, good call. I actually traded for a Meditation with Cunning Wish in mind this week.

Below is what I'm planning, but I like the Cunning Wish idea too. Decisions, decisions.

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix
1 Eternal Witness
2 Notion Thief
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Grave Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
2 Crop Rotation
1 Life from the Loam
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter

2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Veil
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Karakas
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespians Stage
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta

A Nic Fit day 2'd at SCG DC, per their metagame breakdown. Do we have any idea who // what version it was?

Hey everyone! I played a fairly stock junk list (I can type it up if anyone wants to see the rest) to a 4-0 finish (beat DnT, ANT, affinity, and Jund) at our local FNM on Friday. There was one thing I was testing though that I wanted to point out.

It had been mentioned before that we might need to re-evaluate our 'sacred cow' in Pernicious Deed and I was certainly feeling it over the last month or so. It was always named by a revoker or needle or something early, and sniped from my hand wherever possible. At the event I tried 2 Deeds, and 1 Toxic Deluge in the main, and then another Deluge in the sideboard.

This actually proved to work out REALLY well. There were a few times where people would blind name Deed on their revokers and/or needles as they always did, only to get blown out by Deluge. It felt like a really good split. And then having all 4 after board was great. Just my 2 cents :smile:

Congrats to whoever day 2'd the Legacy Open if they're reading this thread!

What is the interaction with Containment Priest, Emrakul, and Show ambpsd Tell? If they put in Emmy and you put in Priest would the Priest see they both came in illegally and exile them?

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Originally Posted by InkedIrishman

What is the interaction with Containment Priest, Emrakul, and Show ambpsd Tell? If they put in Emmy and you put in Priest would the Priest see they both came in illegally and exile them?

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No. You'd have to flash out the Priest in resp to the Show and Tell, at which point they just wouldn't put the Emrakul out. Note that this only matters with Emrakul -- there is equal odds they put out Omniscience and just kill you, which Priest does not stop.