Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UnsungHero
Its a tough matchup for sure, however its far from unwinnable. Karakas shines here, and keeping them off mana via port & waste is very important. Sometimes they get through all of that with things like petals and a sol land too, but thats sometimes how it goes, and sometimes they pull through the breech or blood moon you.
The hard part is that even if you have the tools to keep them off of it early, you can't really stop them later on if they can activate sneak attack twice if they have 2 red sources; so karakas bounces emrakul and you just take his annihilator to the face anyway.
I actually beat sneak and show in a small event last night 2-1. game 1 I popped out marit lage end of turn 2. Game 2 I put him in prison with sphere effects and ports for a while after wasting a volcanic; eventually he echoing truthed my spheres and was able to sneak in an emrakul that I couldnt deal with twice. Game 3 I had one sphere down and had thespian stage copy port in order to keep 2 islands tapped every turn, I wastelanded 2 Volcanics which helped. Eventually he had enough to Show and tell in emrakul and I crop rotated while the sphere kept him from forcing it. I drew into another crop rotation while I was on 7 lands to be able to port once and make the token.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gigapatrick
As promised, the first in a set of black-splash videos:
#117
Great recovery in game one there. Not much of an appearance of the black splash in those games, but good games nonetheless. Thanks for posting!
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
filln
Great recovery in game one there. Not much of an appearance of the black splash in those games, but good games nonetheless. Thanks for posting!
No problem. My pleasure.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
How is adding black going? It made more sense in RUG lands to splash for confidant since they want the long game anyway, is MD decay worth it? Seems like it would only be bad against storm, but no deck has really evolved to beat us as it is (IMO). Why not just SB 4 mindbreak traps if combo is such a problem for us?
Earlier I was considering for testing more mana bond and running ensnaring bridge for eldrazi instead of trying to fight their hand or creatures in play. Torpor Orb might just be the best against that if ThotknotSeer becomes a huge issue.
Might even be time to go up to TWO tabernacles.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gigapatrick
Any reason not to Gamble for Glacial Chasm game 1? Burn usually just fold to it, do you not have enough time on MTGO to kill with Punishing Fire?
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Varal
Any reason not to Gamble for Glacial Chasm game 1? Burn usually just fold to it, do you not have enough time on MTGO to kill with Punishing Fire?
No reason not to. Just didn't cross my mind.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
#121
At the end of the video, I do some speculating about how RG can alter its sideboard to handle a more diverse meta. Love to hear what everyone thinks.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Do you mind typing out some highlights for those of us who can't watch? I'm always interested in sideboard discussion.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
supremePINEAPPLE
Do you mind typing out some highlights for those of us who can't watch? I'm always interested in sideboard discussion.
Well, my initial thoughts were that the black-splash list has sprung up because the meta has become more varied. We aren't simply facing Delver decks, Miracles, and Storm anymore. We're also seeing a resurgence in Reanimator, Sneak and Show, Knight of the Reliquary decks, and others, and we're also facing a new archetype in Eldrazi Stompy. Sphere effects aren't very good against Reanimator or Sneak and Show, so discard in the black-splash sideboard gives us more game against them, while Abrupt Decay gives us more outs to Counterbalance and to Knight of the Reliquary. It also hits common hate cards like Deathrite and Chalice of the Void. On the other hand, the black-splash loses Manabond and Punishing Fire, the former of which gives us more fast combo hands and more control blow outs, while the latter still seems a step or two better than Molten Vortex. So, while I like the black-splash list, I was wondering if the RG sideboard could be reconfigured to deal with the more versatile meta. My initial board considerations include Phyrexian Revoker and Sylvan Library. Phyrexian Revoker can replace some number of Sphere effects since you can name Lion's Eye Diamond against Storm, Griselbrand or Sneak Attack against Sneak and Show or Reanimator, Deathrite Shaman and Knight of the Reliquary when necessary, and Sensei's Divining Top. Sylvan Library can come in against Miracles or against Midrange decks and do a really good Confidant impression (if not be just straight up better since it doesn't die to creature removal). Now, I have no illusions that Revoker is somehow going to solve our Miracles matchup, since it'll die very quick to Swords (though the upside is that will be one less Swords aimed at Marit Lage), but it does seem like it could fill a role similar to discard in the black-splash build: it isn't as effective against Storm, but it trades that loss for more versatility against other decks. Another possibility would be to forget Revokers and Library but to include Pithing Needle for the above-mentioned reasons, since it hits everything relevant except for Lion's Eye. In that case, we'd probably have to trim Sphere effects down to a slim six but then at least we'd have a somewhat better plan against Reanimator and Sneak and Show.
Not saying that this is the best that we can come up with. Just want to start a conversation about it.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
You are hitting a lot of the points that keep my coming back to RUGb time and time again. My board in that deck right now is 3 chalice, 4 sphere, 4 confidant, 2 revoker and 2 grip and it feels like plenty of game against the field. I'm also running a maindeck library just because it's one of my favorite cards period.
I like needle in the current builds of RGb more than revoker. You aren't fighting your own chalices so it seems a little more consistently good even if it's way worse against storm. I still love chalice but I haven't been playing vortex builds very much and it seems a lot more annoying to use there.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
I have never used S-Assault or Molten Vortex in a match, and I can only speculate on black splash. Could we benefit from Surgical or Extirpate? I think it could help shut down more decks that don't expect it.
We might have some bans coming up too because of Eldrazi. Temple is a problem.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chaosjace
I have never used S-Assault or Molten Vortex in a match, and I can only speculate on black splash. Could we benefit from Surgical or Extirpate? I think it could help shut down more decks that don't expect it.
We might have some bans coming up too because of Eldrazi. Temple is a problem.
Eldrazi are not bad. That matchup is sweet.surgical is too narrow I feel.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gigapatrick
Well, my initial thoughts were that the black-splash list has sprung up because the meta has become more varied. ... On the other hand, the black-splash loses Manabond and Punishing Fire, the former of which gives us more fast combo hands and more control blow outs, while the latter still seems a step or two better than Molten Vortex. So, while I like the black-splash list, I was wondering if the RG sideboard could be reconfigured to deal with the more versatile meta.
I prefer Pfires over Vortexes too, because they are counter-decay-dredge-proof. But I also think the blacksplash is the best way to approach the diversity of the field (as Decay hits about anything on the field and discard anything in hand). So perhaps the maindeck manabase should be tinkered to sustain both the blacksplash and Groves/Pfires.
(Edit: just scrolled back, this was already suggested by Unsunghero some posts ago)
I also like Sylvan Library. The card is situated somewhere between Life from the Loam and Gamble, being partly cardselection and partly cardadvantage. In contrast to Bobs, it's maindeckable to keep creatureremoval dead, and has great synergy with loam. And as chalicedecks are on the rise, it dodges chalice1 (in contrast to gamble/croprotation) and once it's on the field, it doesn't care about chalice2 either (in contrast to loam).
So essentially I'd like a list with Decay, Pfires/Groves and Sylvan Library in the main. And with spheres and discard as combohate in the sideboard. Seems brewable :)
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rivfader
So essentially I'd like a list with Decay, Pfires/Groves and Sylvan Library in the main. And with spheres and discard as combohate in the sideboard. Seems brewable :)
What to cut to make room, though? Lose Stage/Depths pieces like Rug Lands does?
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gigapatrick
What to cut to make room, though? Lose Stage/Depths pieces like Rug Lands does?
I was thinking about this list. I'll have the chance to play it in a tourney at the end of the month.
33 Lands
3 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Bojuka Bog
27 Spells
3 Life from the loam
3 Sylvan Library
3 Gamble
3 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Crop Rotation
4 Exploration
4 Mox Diamond
Sideboard
1 Dark Depths
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Krosan Grip
1 Molten Vortex
3 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gigapatrick
What to cut to make room, though? Lose Stage/Depths pieces like Rug Lands does?
Cutting 1-2 manabond and using 3 depths for at least 3 decay seems fine. Saves sb slots since you preboard some answers. I would prefer keeping pfire since d&t will easily cut off vortex g1 and then they have many ways to protect a revoker or just play multiples to then lock you out of removal completely. Pfire disregarding discard and decay is a plus. Having a set of vortex and decay md screams you are gearing for a miracles meta (see CB). G2/3 Vortex fights extractions well where pfire is more vulnerable, so early discard can still compliment a pfire plan vs other decks (although they can still snapcaster surgical back). RUG/x Lands versions have struggled in the past to have a suite of answers for a random gp gauntlet setting, but throwing a Marit Lage at a problem has proven to be enough in this version and foregoing most thing cute has not been a detriment. The only problem I see inhibiting your gameplan is g1 CB and postboard extraction. Everthing else can already be answered efficiently as is or is a combo deck where thoughtseize may buy some turns.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
snorlaxcom
Cutting 1-2 manabond and using 3 depths for at least 3 decay seems fine.
Yeah, that's probably okay, but we still have to make room for more fetches (since Rg usually runs four at most) and a singleton Bayou. Four fetches, a Bayou, and four Mox Diamonds probably isn't enough to support three maindeck Decays and eight or so black cards in the board. You probably need at least two more black sources main. Not sure, but a P-Fire/Decay list could look like:
4 Exploration
4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
4 Mox Diamond
4 Life from the Loam
3 P-Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Maze of Ith
1 Forest
1 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 Glacial Chasm
1 The Tabernacle and Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Dark Depths
6 Tree-fetch
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
That's eighteen green sources, eleven black sources, and sixteen red sources. Probably okay, though this list does lose one Depths (not a small thing in my opinion) and all Tranquil Thickets (again, not a small thing), with the upside of not having to use Vortex.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gigapatrick
Yeah, that's probably okay, but we still have to make room for more fetches (since Rg usually runs four at most) and a singleton Bayou. Four fetches, a Bayou, and four Mox Diamonds probably isn't enough to support three maindeck Decays and eight or so black cards in the board. You probably need at least two more black sources main. Not sure, but a P-Fire/Decay list could look like:
4 Exploration
4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
4 Mox Diamond
4 Life from the Loam
3 P-Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Maze of Ith
1 Forest
1 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 Glacial Chasm
1 The Tabernacle and Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Dark Depths
6 Tree-fetch
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
That's eighteen green sources, eleven black sources, and sixteen red sources. Probably okay, though this list does lose one Depths (not a small thing in my opinion) and all Tranquil Thickets (again, not a small thing), with the upside of not having to use Vortex.
For splash colors I count crops as well. There are also multiple black sources with stage once you get the first out. So a solid 11 from opening hands with more sources as the game progresses.
