[Primer] Eldrazi Stompy

Since im playing white (and now white blue) Eldrazi a long time, but never have really tested the colorless version(s) =>
When splashing colors, i basically loose Wasteland and Mishras Factory (i play Caverns and Corrupted Crossroads) and swap the Apes for Lotus Petals, the Reshaper for Displacer and the Sower for Drowners.
In return im getting Eldrazi Displacer and Drowner of Hope - both of which seem to be pretty nice.
Nevertheless, im not sure if i really need either of those, which is why im looking at colorless eldrazi now - but im having a hard time (while testing noLoams list) understanding the colorless way yet.

1. Whats your opinion on Matter Reshaper VS Eldrazi Displacer? Displacer solves a lot of problems (Batterskull, Equipments, Marit Lage Token, the Mirror - to name a few. In which matchups do you think Reshaper is good (or maybe better than displacer) ?
2. Are Wastelands worthwhile? Dont they dilute the option to search up with Eye of Ugin lategame (since you sacrificed a land). When (generally speaking) do you use them? Which problems do they solve for you?
3. Whats your Opinion on Oblivion Sower VS Drowner of Hope? Drowner is a beast when it comes to creaturefights, most of the time landing him means gg next turn (and maybe even the same turn). compared to Endbringer he seems to be faster, but has less "options". Then again, "options" are nice, but smashing face and winning is "nicer". Sower seems to mostly be used against Goyf Decks if im not mistaken, and to some extend vs controlish decks (e.g. miracles) and i get the point of him ramping into ulamog (i had 2x Sower+1x Ulamog in the side a long time), but in many matchups he seems to be "just" a big dumb guy.... but maybe this is exactly why he is beeing played? Also drowner "fixes" show and tell to some extent, since you get 2 free turns tapping their guy :)
4. Im still having a hard time beating Lands, even with graveyard hate it seems they just are so way uphill... i currently do 3x Pithing Needle + 4 Faerie Macabre, the 1st needle blind on wasteland, the 2nd on Thespian...
5. im testing Skyspawner right now, any1 has any experience with that ?

What's so hard to understand about colorless eldrazi? The deck si really easy to play. Not bragging (well, a little maybe) but I took it to GP Prague without any prior experience with eldrazis and finished 10-4 (could be even better barring some topdecks from oponents). You first turn drops are mimics, maybe endless one, chalice and perhaps thorn if you play them main. On your turn two you should be able to cast pretty much every coloress eldrazi, preferably thoguthknot seer. From there on you just smash faces.. ain't nothing much elso to it. Probably the most difficult part is assessing when to hold up warping wail and when to tap out.. but I guess this comes with some long term experience in legacy and amgic in general.

Personally I always found the color eldrazis to be a bit overkill, tying to be fancy and all when in reality you really don't need to be, just stack em up and turn sideways. :wink:

@miagi:
i may have made myself unclear. its not about playong eldrazi in general, been playing the deck since march and am 4th place in our cities overall local league (20-30 changing players, 11 tournaments per year, diverse meta)
im mostly about the differences between colored and colorless, as my points tried to make clear - since ive been playing colored eldrazi only so far.

Thoughts and notes.

This is what I am running
24 LANDS
4 Aether Hub
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Corrupted Crossroads
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
23 CREATURES
1 Drowner of Hope
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Eldrazi Obligator
4 Endless One
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
5 INSTANTS and SORC.
2 Dismember
3 Warping Wail
8 OTHER SPELLS
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Umezawa's Jitte

as my introduction to the deck. I have replaced the drowner of hope with endbringer, and swapped the karakas for urborg in the side (which is still in progress)
I really like obligator, stole an Elesh norn from reanimator, uncounterable with cavern and he had a force, and swung for lethal on turn 3.
Might sideboard one or two of them to try out reshaper.
I am also thinking about sticking a couple Basic Land - Waste in the deck, for heavy land hate meta. Probably cut a hub or two or crossroads, not really sure yet.
Two Mimics and dropping reality smasher reminds me of vintage MUD, and feels good to be able to swing for 15 so quickly.
The deck feels solid and I am still learning interactions.
I really like Displacer.
I am looking forward to racking up some matches with this deck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chaosjace

I really like obligator, stole an Elesh norn from reanimator, uncounterable with cavern and he had a force, and swung for lethal on turn 3.

---

I don't think it's possible for this deck to kill on T3 if the opponent got an Elesh Norn into play.

Eye and Cavern + 8 creatures all playable on the same turn 1. Turn 2 obligator their elesh, swing for a billion. Turn 3, do it again. Obviously it's possible. Probable? No.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee

Eye and Cavern + 8 creatures all playable on the same turn 1. Turn 2 obligator their elesh, swing for a billion. Turn 3, do it again. Obviously it's possible. Probable? No.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

---

Hand starting size aside, Elesh kills all of them.

I tried the Bant list a while ago and seemed very good against the fair decks but pretty bad against the super unfair decks. Personally, I will stick with colorless, but it's nice to know if the meta shifts I can easily swap some cheap cards out to adapt. Also, I will be going to an up and coming GPT for GP Louisville with the deck and hoping to take it down for some bye's into the main event! A report will ensue for the GPT.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whitefaces

Hand starting size aside, Elesh kills all of them.

---

Correct. Damn, I'm good...

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

With that list above, how do You cast a turn 2 Obligator and pay for the trigger?
Am I missing something (except for a SSG to do so)?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MasterHerC

With that list above, how do You cast a turn 2 Obligator and pay for the trigger?
Am I missing something (except for a SSG to do so)?

---

This is my question as well. Obligator costs 5 with the trigger.... how are you hitting that turn 2? Even with multiple Lotus petals or ssg you still wouldn't have the mana to hit again turn 3, unless I'm really missing something here.

Calling shenaggans

The list does not contain any copy of SSG, but with SSG it would be possible.
Or You have to run the Mox Diamond variant.

Eye + Sol Land/Temple + SSG/Petal
Sol Land + Temple +SSG/Petal
Sol Land + Sol Land +SSG/Petal
Temple + Temple +SSG/Petal

For Turn 3 You then need another SSG/Petal or a Cavern of Souls.

Kinda clunky ... not?

Sorry, I should have detailed that a bit more I guess. he dropped elesh on his second turn to kill my mimic. My next turn I dropped displaced as a chimp blocker, he swung for 4 then my next turn I cast obligatory with cavern, ancient tomb and eldrazi temple. It steals elesh on cast so it doesn't wipe my board, obligatory has haste and gives elesh haste to swing for lethal,
The mistake may be I am so used to gold fishing I was referring to my turn 3 not the 3rd turn of the game. Sorry for the brain damage I have and caused

the colored vs colorless discussion has been held too many times in this topic. the colered version lacks 1 thing........good longterm results

@Noloam for sure it's bacause of low popularity - but every time I compare versions - specially white one which resolve a lot of problems I came to conclusion - why colorless is still played:

It's much easier to play, it doesn't require too many decisions, colorless version is also cheaper, sure you can use petal instead of moxes but build will suffer from it. Colorless answers like all is dust are mostly not working good in mirror, which lead to use of Dismembers, white color offers much better removal 1 cmc and 2 cmc.

Every time I met a friend with Sneak & Show I wonder how colorless eldrazi can handle turn 1-2 cheated threads or Moon effect. Answer is - they don't. Most S&S matchups are just loses - sure we can tune SB to more focus on them like red Confusion in the Ranks, but on bigger events you can't pack so focused SB since you met also other matchups which are also not favorable like Reanimator.

At the end I found that Shardless BUG pack more and more Strix & Goyfs to their 75, to have edge over Eldrazi. White one - can still fight with them with first strike, and mana daniel, which is very good against shardless.

Last but not least - case - Blood Moon - not so omnipresent like after Eldrazi pop up, but still a thread - good answers vs them, and more diversity threads (not only Eldrazi) is just an edge.

final compare - mirror - SFM package and removal is huge here. Only way to win against is fast Sower with Eye backup - 1 wasteland / Thalia 2.0 can cut that plans.

To defend colorless version - it can still draw much faster clock with Mimics/Eye start then any colored one - question - does we want to go Belcher road ?

there is a reason that it is not populair, that is because it is clearly not good enough. it is better in some matches. but worse in the most cases

Some questions:


Why Oblivion Sower over Endbringer?


How important is Mirsha Factory in the deck? How crazy is it to try Ghost Quarters instead?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dr Brian Pepper

Some questions:


Why Oblivion Sower over Endbringer?


How important is Mirsha Factory in the deck? How crazy is it to try Ghost Quarters instead?

---

Sower is to beat the goyf and mirror matches. I find mishras factory to give an extra threat when threat light. I wouldn't remove it if you're playing colorless version.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fatal

@Noloam for sure it's bacause of low popularity - but every time I compare versions - specially white one which resolve a lot of problems I came to conclusion - why colorless is still played:

It's much easier to play, it doesn't require too many decisions, colorless version is also cheaper, sure you can use petal instead of moxes but build will suffer from it. Colorless answers like all is dust are mostly not working good in mirror, which lead to use of Dismembers, white color offers much better removal 1 cmc and 2 cmc.

---

I don't believe cost is ever a reason to play one version of a deck over the other. Honestly, if the Eldrazi colored builds were putting up the kinds of results the colorless is, then people would play it -- full stop. It has nothing to do with the price of Mox Diamonds, which honestly, aren't even that expensive when you are talking about legacy staples.

Quote:

---

Every time I met a friend with Sneak & Show I wonder how colorless eldrazi can handle turn 1-2 cheated threads or Moon effect. Answer is - they don't. Most S&S matchups are just loses - sure we can tune SB to more focus on them like red Confusion in the Ranks, but on bigger events you can't pack so focused SB since you met also other matchups which are also not favorable like Reanimator.

---

Sneak and Show is tough, especially pre-sideboard, so I see where you are coming from. Post I bring in 4 Thorns + 3 Confusions (thanks Noloam!!) and it gives me a much better shot. Colorless also CRUSHES other combo decks, like Storm or High Tide. Funny story, I played a High Tide player in a tournament, real good guy. Afterwards he says "I don't know how I could possibly beat that deck and jokingly pretended to throw his deck across the room lol" - Chalice + Thorns are bad news for majority of combo decks, though I haven't played against Reanimator much, especially the new B/R one but I suspect LotV's does lots of work.

Quote:

---

At the end I found that Shardless BUG pack more and more Strix & Goyfs to their 75, to have edge over Eldrazi. White one - can still fight with them with first strike, and mana daniel, which is very good against shardless.

---

Can you explain this a little please? Which first strike creatures are you talking about? Which mana denial are you adding that isn't present in colorless lists? Maybe it would help if I could see your decklist, you mention Thalia and SFM a little below, so maybe you're playing a different colored Eldrazi list than I'm thinking about? Would love to see it please!

Quote:

---

Last but not least - case - Blood Moon - not so omnipresent like after Eldrazi pop up, but still a thread - good answers vs them, and more diversity threads (not only Eldrazi) is just an edge.

---

I agree fully, and Blood Moon is a bitch to deal with, especially as colorless. It's going to be Sower or bust (basically) in these cases.

Quote:

---

final compare - mirror - SFM package and removal is huge here. Only way to win against is fast Sower with Eye backup - 1 wasteland / Thalia 2.0 can cut that plans.

To defend colorless version - it can still draw much faster clock with Mimics/Eye start then any colored one - question - does we want to go Belcher road ?

---

It's not Belcher though, it's so much more consistent. I tried very hard to make the colored version work, I really wanted it to. I wanted to play Karakas and Displacers and Moxes in this shell, but I just had such better results everytime I switched to the colorless version. Even just basic splashes for Displacer lost a lot of explosiveness, though that was the colored deck I had the most success with (4 Displacers + 3 Petals over 4 Reshapers + 3 SSG). To be fair, colorless is much more refined, in huge part to Noloam/Darkness and others here for putting in the work, so I just take their 75 and roll with it. Certainly could be ways to make the colored lists better, which I'd be all for discussing but as it currently stands, colorless > colored builds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fatal

@Noloam for sure it's bacause of low popularity - but every time I compare versions - specially white one which resolve a lot of problems I came to conclusion - why colorless is still played:

It's much easier to play, it doesn't require too many decisions, colorless version is also cheaper, sure you can use petal instead of moxes but build will suffer from it. Colorless answers like all is dust are mostly not working good in mirror, which lead to use of Dismembers, white color offers much better removal 1 cmc and 2 cmc.

Every time I met a friend with Sneak & Show I wonder how colorless eldrazi can handle turn 1-2 cheated threads or Moon effect. Answer is - they don't. Most S&S matchups are just loses - sure we can tune SB to more focus on them like red Confusion in the Ranks, but on bigger events you can't pack so focused SB since you met also other matchups which are also not favorable like Reanimator.

At the end I found that Shardless BUG pack more and more Strix & Goyfs to their 75, to have edge over Eldrazi. White one - can still fight with them with first strike, and mana daniel, which is very good against shardless.

Last but not least - case - Blood Moon - not so omnipresent like after Eldrazi pop up, but still a thread - good answers vs them, and more diversity threads (not only Eldrazi) is just an edge.

final compare - mirror - SFM package and removal is huge here. Only way to win against is fast Sower with Eye backup - 1 wasteland / Thalia 2.0 can cut that plans.

To defend colorless version - it can still draw much faster clock with Mimics/Eye start then any colored one - question - does we want to go Belcher road ?

---

I haven't played Eldrazi or any other constructed format in a long time but played all the variations of Eldrazi back in the spring for months. In the end the colorless version was hands down the most consistent of 'em all. I loved tinkering with the different colors but eventually decided against anything else but mono.

Also if you read back the thread there is lots of discussion and 5-0 decklists of colored versions as well. Though I'm quite sure you have done this already.