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I've been doing some thinking about this one actually. I think there's another way to think about the card. It's not a tribal card, it's a tutor for something you already have. I like it in Rhino builds for sure, I like it less in human builds because I don't want to hit a Veteran Explorer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulysse95
What gives me pause though is that it's a dies trigger which means Swords to Plowshares gets even stronger against us.
I think Evolutionary Leap is probably better if you want this kind of effect.
- Sac outlet when you want
- Cheaper mana cost
The benefit of equipping your guys and making them bigger doesn't seem that great when you have Rhinos and Inferno Titans etc etc which are bigger than everything else anyway.
Sweet. Looking forward to seeing it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevestamopz
On Heirloom Blade - Blisterpod is a GSZ-able 1 mana Eldrazi (that gives you 2 Eldrazi for 1 card to boot). The plan in itself is just too fragile though.
On Nic Fit in NZ- Hooray!
Depends...Quote:
Originally Posted by kombatkiwi
Evolutionary Leap needs to be draw, so you need several slots fill by it.
If you run a stoneforge package, 1 Heirloom Blade is enough
Unfortunately the creature that you reveal only goes into your hand, so this probably isn't too exciting of an idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Depends, converting a blisterpod into 2 TKS can be sweet.Quote:
Originally Posted by kombatkiwi
But I agree that the shell must be hard to balance.
For me I'm on an evolution of Nyx Fit shell. A Curse Fit. Need to do some tests and adjustements to see where it goes...
You could also just get another Blisterpod with it, as I assume you'd be running more than 1 to hit it. Thanks to Devoid you can't GSZ for a 1-of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulysse95
Good point! I think Echelon forgot the devoid thing! Damnit Echelon ! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by RobNC
Devoid makes it colorless, GSZ can't get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Can I get some opinions on whether this budget list is worth throwing together? Does it have a chance to go 2-2 at my LGS ? my friend loaned me his rhino fit dec (which is super sweet thanks mark) and told me that if i start with 4 veteran explorer/4 cabal therapy I can do anything i want
// 60 Maindeck
// 2 Artifact
2 Smuggler's Copter
// 20 Creature
4 Street Wraith
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Death's Shadow
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
2 Grim Flayer
1 Dryad Arbor
// 2 Enchantment
2 Sylvan Library
// 8 Instant
3 Orzhov Charm
3 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
// 15 Land
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Godless Shrine
// 13 Sorcery
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
2 Toxic Deluge
other cards to consider:
lingerining souls, sfm, vines of vastwood, berserk, anguished unmaking, hymn to tourach
I'll be honest with you, if you're very familiar with the meta you can probably get some free wins off of the Explorer/Cabal Therapy combo (and Therapy itself is just great when you get good names) but in general this list is going to lose a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by amitofo
The first thing you need to look at is your land count. You're only playing 15 lands. Yes, you are playing some cantrips but those cantrips don't make up for the lower land count. I'll spare you the speech on the cantrip shell right now as it's something I've done extensive work with, but it's actually just not that good. It's main advantage is that the blue cantrip shell enables Force of Will and finding sideboard cards because they all dig 3 deep. Here, your cantrips only dig 1 deep and they don't enable anything. Ideally you want about 25 lands (and as a budget deck it's easier to accomplish this) though most tend to play in the 21-22 range.
After that, start looking at your spells. Gitaxian Probe/Thoughtseize+Cabal Therapy makes for some good training wheels to learn the format, but it's going to cost you wins. Playing Therapy properly involves being able to blind name. Remember, it's not always about hitting something with Therapy, 90% of the time it's just to ensure the opponent doesn't have something that's good against you. Knowing what to name requires a ton of practice, I think it's been removed from the primer now but the old saying was that you needed at least a year of experience with the deck to do this properly.
I also think your manabase is built improperly. This deck REALLY needs a Bayou, but you aren't playing the right amounts of shocks as substitutes either and your fetches are also off. Add a couple more green fetches, they don't have to be Windswept Heaths if you don't have them, just anything that gets green. You also need more basics, and because of the land situation you're going to have to commit more to a specific color. I would suggest dropping white entirely and just playing Green/Black for now, the mana base is less costly in terms of money as well as life paid per game, though the most budget friendly deck performance wise is probably Rhinos.
I would definitely move away from Grim Flayer. Delirium is pretty hard to achieve in Legacy because Deathrite Shaman takes the 4 most common creature types out of the graveyard. You can really only fill it if you devote a bunch of resources to killing opposing DRS's, which in turn weakens the rest of your board development. Don't play Varolz, scavenge is a good way to get blown out in Legacy, and the card itself is too weak to Terminus, StP, etc. Speaking of removal, get rid of those Orzhov Charms, you're paying way too much life per game with your current setup. In Legacy just paying for fetchlands is nearly too much life, shocks make things harder for you, and then you have Street Wraith, Orzhov Charm, Library, Probe, and Thoughtseize, and Deluge. This isn't Modern, you aren't rewarded for using your life total aggressively and Death's Shadow is not playable, the first time it eats a Swords to Plowshares you'll understand why.
I can give better suggestions if you give your budget for improvement but in your current list, this is all stuff I would drop
2 Smuggler's Copter
4 Death's Shadow
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
2 Grim Flayer
3 Orzhov Charm
3 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Thoughtseize
Stuff I would add:
7 lands (includes some utility lands)
More threats (decide on a Rhino, SFM, or Tracker build)
2 Crop Rotation
Nissa (creature Nissa or 5 mana Nissa, creature will want an additional 2 basics)
More removal
4 GSZ
Some green stuff (ooze, eternal witness, meren, etc)
I'll also add on, that your budget here really needs to be about $150 minimum in additions because you don't have the Towers right now and those are super important, more so than a Bayou even.
Why would you play a Veteran Explorer deck where every non-Streetwraith card costs 2 or less?
edit: Deluge/Varolz I guess but the point still stands
to further what kombatkiwi said:Quote:
Originally Posted by amitofo
The NicFit's advantage is breaking the Veteran explorer symmetry not just by pushing your mana ahead but also being able to take advantage of that with higher CMC spells. If you're only using the explorer as a creature to sac to the back end of Cabal Therapy, you might find yourself accelerating your opponents into early wins. You're likely going to find yourself running out of cards before you're taking advantage of the extra mana.
The question I have is:
What do you want to play more, Veteran Explorer or Death's Shadow? It feels like these two creatures are diametrically opposed. Veteran Explorer wants to accelerate you into a high CMC spell/ability and Death's Shadow wants to take advantage of a lower mana curve.
Indeed I did! Same goes for the hand thing, by the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulysse95
As for the Sui Fit list - you might be able to make it work. Varolz provides a nice mana sink for your Explorer mana. There's a lot of work to be done though.
@Amitofo: I agree with previous comments. If you want to play the deck, a quick fix could be to change the Veterans into Strangleroot Geist. Can be hard to cast but they synergize with Cabal Therapy while pressuring the opponent's life. Not saying it will be great, but it would seem better in the deck than sacking Veteran to give both players more lands, which your deck doesn't look like it needs. Btw, I love Varolz + Death's Shadow.
@Stevestamopz: what a cliffhanger! I can't find any info online. I would guess though, because guessing is fun, that it's a Rhino or BUG version.
Right, on the subject of Death's Shadow if that's the route you really want to go, you should be playing blue, not green. Blue lets you use Daze to shock, pick the shock back up, and replay it while Force of Will lets you lose life while interacting. Mashing it into Veteran Explorer doesn't really work, and the end result won't be budget because you'll need at minimum FoW and 2 Underground Sea to make it function, and likely Goyfs for your third color.
Here's the 1st-place list from NZ Eternal Weekend (32 Players)
2 Rhino
1 Meren
1 Sigarda
1 Thragtusk
2 Tracker
2 Deathrite
1 Teeg
4 Explorer
1 Pridemage
1 Scooze
1 Witness
4 Therapy
4 GSZ
3 Deed
1 Nissa Force
2 Decay
2 Path
2 Crop Rotation
1 Painful Truths
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Tower
1 Stronghold
4 Catacombs
4 Heath
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
SB
3 Surgical
1 Glissa the Traitor
2 Thoughtseize
1 Canonist
2 Choke
1 Rec Sage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Golgari Charm
1 Sylvan Library
2 Lost Legacy
Low to the ground Rhino Fit w/ the CR tech! Awesome!
Oh great, now everyone's gonna be talking about Crop Rotation again for another few months.