[Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

I have been meaning to pick this deck up but I dont know where to start. I have lots of questions:

1) What is the skeleton of the deck? I know the deck revolves around Argonthian Enchantress and Enchantress's Presence. But what are the other Enchantments needed in the basic of the deck.

2) I currently do not own any duals. I did hear that this deck is the best dual color deck to run without the need of original duals. Will this deck be okay with just G/W?

3) With Qasali Pridemage and Trygon Predator being a common sight, would that be detrimental for the deck?

4) I am currently playing Quinn. Would you guys say that the playing style would be the same as that deck? Control early game, toolbox whatever you need then win big late game.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by (nameless one)

I have been meaning to pick this deck up but I dont know where to start. I have lots of questions:

1) What is the skeleton of the deck? I know the deck revolves around Argonthian Enchantress and Enchantress's Presence. But what are the other Enchantments needed in the basic of the deck.

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Hi!

I've been playing this deck with some proxies for 2 months now, still getting all the cards needed... This is what i consider to be the skeleton of the deck:

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence

4 Elephant Grass
3 Runed Halo
2 Solitary Confinement
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Sterling Grove

4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Chrome Mox

1 Replenish

2 Kill Cards

2 Serra's Sanctum
18 other lands

Still no sure about the moxes, they can be very good or...useless ... it depends when and where you draw them, but accelarating into turn 1 enchantress and giving you some speed is very good in ths deck, since it's a deck that needs is time to get going. The deck is performing fine with only two colors, i'm running Sacred Mesa and Sigil as kill cards, sometimes i feel the need for an extra kill card, that being the case i would add another sigil.

Runed Halo as been MVP, since it answer so many cards like trygon predator, tendrils of agony, creatures from reanimator, you name it, sometimes is hard to know what to name with it, but with knowledge of the metagame you'll get it. If you are afraid of running into too many krosan grips and pridemages i would add another replenish to the deck.

This is a list from the top of my head, maybe i'm forgetting something. This is a deck that can be tweaked to the metagame you're in, it always have some free spots where you can MB some hate cards like, ground seal, choke, city of solitude.

Hope it helps and that my english isn't too bad...

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Originally Posted by claudio.r

Hi!

-List-

Still no sure about the moxes, they can be very good or...useless ... it depends when and where you draw them, but accelarating into turn 1 enchantress and giving you some speed is very good in ths deck, since it's a deck that needs is time to get going. The deck is performing fine with only two colors, i'm running Sacred Mesa and Sigil as kill cards, sometimes i feel the need for an extra kill card, that being the case i would add another sigil.

Runed Halo as been MVP, since it answer so many cards like trygon predator, tendrils of agony, creatures from reanimator, you name it, sometimes is hard to know what to name with it, but with knowledge of the metagame you'll get it. If you are afraid of running into too many krosan grips and pridemages i would add another replenish to the deck.

This is a list from the top of my head, maybe i'm forgetting something. This is a deck that can be tweaked to the metagame you're in, it always have some free spots where you can MB some hate cards like, ground seal, choke, city of solitude.

Hope it helps and that my english isn't too bad...

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I usually tend to build budget versions of the decks that I want to play before I actually play them. Surprisingly, I find that some of the budget options to be better on my meta (I pilot my budget Quinn deck better than my list with actual Painter-Stone combo-kill). That being said, would Elvish Spirit Guide or even Lotus Petal be a better choice (I have the two mentioned cards, I currently do not have Chrome Mox). Elvish Spirit Guide could also be a creature late game. Speaking of win cons, would 2x Sigil + 1x Sacred Mesa work?

I haven't had really problem on what to name with Runed Halo. I use it in my Quinn deck and so far, it has not disappoint me. I'll try to get my own rough copy of the deck and test it on MWS. See if I like it.

Thanks!

The deck works well without chrome mox, ESG and Lotus petal are cute, but are even worst topdecks than chrome mox latter in the game. If you're not going to run chrome mox, try to run something like Enlightened tutor, wich is a good turn 1 play. The beauty of this deck, is that you can try a lot of different things ;)

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Originally Posted by claudio.r

The deck works well without chrome mox, ESG and Lotus petal are cute, but are even worst topdecks than chrome mox latter in the game. If you're not going to run chrome mox, try to run something like Enlightened tutor, wich is a good turn 1 play. The beauty of this deck, is that you can try a lot of different things ;)

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I like trying different things.

If I go turn 1 Tutor, What would I usually tutor for ?

Normally you only play tutor turn 1 if you know what you're playing against, since it's an instant you can also go in the end of the opponents turn. Normally i would go for runed halo or elephant grass, or if you don't have any enchantress effect in your hand you can go for presence.

If you are seeking a budget option to Moat, you can try the following: Humility, Arboria (make sure you are running Sacred Mesa though), or Worship. They aren't quite as good as Moat in most situations, but can serve as good placeholders in the meantime. Alternatively, just run one more Solitary Confinement.

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Originally Posted by (nameless one)

I have been meaning to pick this deck up but I dont know where to start. I have lots of questions:

1) What is the skeleton of the deck? I know the deck revolves around Argonthian Enchantress and Enchantress's Presence. But what are the other Enchantments needed in the basic of the deck.

2) I currently do not own any duals. I did hear that this deck is the best dual color deck to run without the need of original duals. Will this deck be okay with just G/W?

3) With Qasali Pridemage and Trygon Predator being a common sight, would that be detrimental for the deck?

4) I am currently playing Quinn. Would you guys say that the playing style would be the same as that deck? Control early game, toolbox whatever you need then win big late game.

Thanks!

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Answers
1) I would consider the basic skeleton of the deck to be...
~Maindeck~
4x Argothian Enchantress
4x Enchantress's Presence
2x Replenish
3x Sterling Grove
4x Utopia Sprawl
1x Moat
1x Runed Halo
3x Solitary Confinement
3x Elephant Grass
1x Oblivion Ring
2x Savannah
4x Windswept Heath
2x Serra's Sanctum
1x Win Condition (Sacred Mesa or Sigil of Empty Throne)
-Then if Red splash is used (which I consider the superior build BTW)
1x Words of War
1x Taiga and 11x More Lands
-And if it's not
12x More Lands
1x More Win Conditions

~Sideboard~
1x Circle of Protection: Red
1x Aura of Silence
2x Karmic Justice

And a total of atleast 3 Runed Halos between MD and SB

Any Enchantress deck that didn't fit into those boundaries at this point without a strong metagame reason I would not consider optimal.

So that means, by my calculations you have 14 slots to play with maindeck and 11 in the side. I'd suggest adding 3-4 mana accelerators main and a Karakas and Lignify if you expect any legendary angels to be showing up. Then I'd suggest atleast 4 GY hate cards between MD and side whether they are Ground Seal, Wheel, artifacts, or whatever is up to you. Also I'd throw in atleast 3 cards that hose counterspell or blue somewhere since it is such and important matchup to be strong in.

2) Yes the deck will be "okay." Will it be optimal? No, but it should be okay. Really if I were to make a budget version the first thing I would do would be to add, yes, dual lands. Really if you already have the fetches 1x Savannah and 1x Taiga make the deck about 30% better at least. If you are going the budget route even 1x Taiga with fetches is going to be a good call. Just adding 1x Taiga, 1x Blood Moon, and 1x War of Words will win you so many games you wouldn't believe it. Really depends on how budget you need to get. Not having Moat hurts, but not having access to red is much worse. If you do go budget I would suggest Wild Growth over Lotus Petals. Once you get going if you run Growth it will be much easier to combo out and since your deck is already slightly handicapped the loss of first turn enchantress for second turn enchantress with Daze insurance or 2nd turn presence with an extra mana and a meatier deck mid combo is probably better. Really though if you already have the fetchlands you should just shell out 50-60 dollars for 2 duals and make the deck much better.

3) Atleast they make Deed even less reliable since Deed is such bad news for us. Also this is why I play 4 Groves MD.

4) Most games I'm not so much toolboxing as tearing through my deck drawing cards and stacking lock pieces one after the other until my kill condition comes online. Toolbox is plan B most of the time, or insurance policy depending on what the other person is playing (IE digging out a Justice vs. decks that run sweepers).

I usually have this ritual of playing a suboptimal version of the deck before actually go full-blown on it. That said, would Ravnica duals work with this deck or would its drawback detrimental to the deck?

Also, I dont think Humility would work in this deck. Enchantress will lose her effect.

Can anyone how Arboria actually works. I dont know if I'm just braincramped from work but I don't seem to understand it. So you can only attack the player if that player plays something right?

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Originally Posted by (nameless one)

I usually have this ritual of playing a suboptimal version of the deck before actually go full-blown on it. That said, would Ravnica duals work with this deck or would its drawback detrimental to the deck?

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As far as duals go, I run my enchantress with one taiga. I'm considering adding a Savannah, but I'm not sure it's really necessary. Ravnica duals would be fine, as long as you have the Windswept Heaths to smooth your colors out. I run 5 fetchlands total at the moment.

While were on the topic of dual lands, how many is too many, if you want some resilience to moon effects and waste lock?

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Originally Posted by (nameless one)

Can anyone how Arboria actually works. I dont know if I'm just braincramped from work but I don't seem to understand it. So you can only attack the player if that player plays something right?

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You're right. Players who cast no spells and put no (non-token) permanents (including lands) onto the battlefield can't be attacked until after their next turn. So,essentially as long as you spend your turns doing nothing other than pumping out pegasus tokens - you're safe from attacks.

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Originally Posted by jhhdk

While were on the topic of dual lands, how many is too many, if you want some resilience to moon effects and waste lock?

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It honestly depends on how many double-white spells you are playing. If you are playing 4 Runed Halo and 2 Moat, you want at least 3 Savannahs. If you run few double-white spells, then running 1 allows it to be fetched.

Really though, you want some acceleration in your opening hand, and if you have utopia sprawl, you'd really rather have a forest. If you have only non-basics in your opening hand, wasteland can be a 2 for 1.

I am happy with my mana base. For reference:

4 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Taiga
2 Serra's Sanctum
4 Plains
9 Forest

If I was to add 1-2 Savannahs, I would remove Plains for them.

There are a LOT of options versus Moat, including Dueling Grounds and Humility. Or simply another copy of Sigil of the Empty Throne, or Solitary Confinement, or Martyr's Cause. They all stop creature combat damage, bottom line.

If baffles me why some players esteem Moat so highly. Moat is really narrow and basically helps against matchups that Enchantress already has a dozen other ways of shutting down.

Agreed. And even against some forms of aggro (eg: Zoo), by the time you land it you may be in burn range, or they can simply QPM it. Where it's really great is against goblins, dreadstill, and other similar decks. But in those cases, a Confinement with backup is still better.

If you have Moat, great. If you don't, there are other more important things you should be getting with your money.

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Originally Posted by jiazhouhuaqiao

There are a LOT of options versus Moat, including Dueling Grounds and Humility. Or simply another copy of Sigil of the Empty Throne, or Solitary Confinement, or Martyr's Cause. They all stop creature combat damage, bottom line.

If baffles me why some players esteem Moat so highly. Moat is really narrow and basically helps against matchups that Enchantress already has a dozen other ways of shutting down.

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Originally Posted by wcm8

Agreed. And even against some forms of aggro (eg: Zoo), by the time you land it you may be in burn range, or they can simply QPM it. Where it's really great is against goblins, dreadstill, and other similar decks. But in those cases, a Confinement with backup is still better.

If you have Moat, great. If you don't, there are other more important things you should be getting with your money.

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Whoa guys, slow down. First off I agree that Moat is not the most important card in the deck. If I had $120 to spend on either a better mana base and a couple Moxes or a Moat I would go with 2-3 duals, whatever fetches I didn't have, and some Chrome Moxes or ESGs/Petals whatever way you want to go with your mana acceleration and maybe a Karakas and at least have the optimal land setup for the deck. That said though Moat is really really really good. Solitary Confinement is obviously the best protection but you have to have a couple enchantresses in play or it doesn't last long. Moat stops about 90% of the creatures that people play in Legacy from attacking and doesn't require anything but 4 mana. Against any deck that plans on winning by attacking Moat is the best protection card in your deck until you have atleast 2 draw effects out. I can't tell you how many times I've been staring down enough creatures to kill me next turn then tutored up a Moat and won easily after it hits play. Also it easily lands on turn 3 most games since most lists run 6/7/8 or more mana accelerators. Moat is soooo good, if you don't want to shell out $100 for one I can't blame you but it definitely belongs in the decklist when price is not an issue. Don't let anyone tell you Moat doesn't belong in an optimal Enchantress list. Most CountertopGoyf and Merfolk decks can't deal damage to you while Moat is out and those are the 2 most popular decks in the format, that alone makes it a must include (again when money is not an issue).

I agree with you, my point was simply that to play the deck you don't *need* Moat as much as you need a good mana base.

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Originally Posted by wcm8

I agree with you, my point was simply that to play the deck you don't *need* Moat as much as you need a good mana base.

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Yes, a good mana base is the most important part of a successful enchantress deck. It doesn't matter what cards are in your deck, at some point if you dont run duals you won't be able to play an important card when u need it and it will cost you a game. Especially when you don't have Moat and you rely on Halo, sooner or later you are going to wish you could fetch out a savannah turn 1.

Took Enchantress to another SCG Open, this time in Atlanta. Did fairly well, and not to pissed at any of my losses.

Don't have my decklist handy that I ran, but one major change from my list earlier in this thread was to drop a land and a wild growth for a couple more silver bullets in the main deck. One of those cards was a Blood Moon. I also eliminated Sacred Ground from the board, and went with something that looked like this...

3x Mindbreak Trap
1x CoP: Red
1x Aura of Silence
2x Vexing Susher
1x Runed Halo
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Chalice of the Void
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Wheel of Sun and Moon
1x Elephant Grass (2 in the main)

Rnd 1: Mono Black Rogues, 2-1, 1-0.
Kind of a weird match since it was a straight up aggro match and he prowled out an Earwig Squad early. I breathed a sigh of relief since I had a Sigil in hand, but he went for a Sigil, Replenish, and an Elephant Grass. Confused the crap out of me, but he struck me as being a rogue player and not a great player anyways. I was on the ropes and needed a removal, he had the black spell that counters unless it's opponent pays 5 and I was at 5, so I lost g1. G2 he got some discarders going on me, but I was able to drop a Moat after he had prowled an Earwig squad again, this time grabing 2 Solitarys and a Replenish. After the moat, I dropped a Runed Halo on his one flyer, and took the game. Game 3 went about the same way, it was tight at first, but I pulled away for the win.

Rnd 2: Eva Green/Dark Depths Combo - Charles Chandler - 1-2, 1-1.
I had beat Charles in the 6th of 7 rounds in Orlando when he was playing Eva Green. Real nice guy and was a pleasure to play him again. He changed his deck to incorporate Living Wish and the Dark Depths combo. He was able to beat my face in pretty quickly in G1 after I mulled to 5 and got hit with a little bit of hand disruption. Couldn't get set up, and lost quickly. G2, I was able to stabilize for a little bit and then drop a Blood Moon with him having all non basics. He scooped and we went to G3. I again had to mull down, and this time he had Dark Depths combo in hand to kill me on T4. I only had a few outs and was stuck with a Forest and Utopia Sprawl naming white. I had a Solitary in my hand, so my only hope was to draw a Lignify or another land and I drew a 2nd Enchantress's Presence. Good games to Charles.

Rnd 3: UW Thopter Foundry Combo - Joseph Keaveny - 2-1, 2-1.
First game went pretty easy for me. He got stuck on 2 lands for a while, and had Counterbalance/Top set up, but I can play around that and grab the win without seeing what he had. I didn't figure out that he was playing Thopter combo until I saw it in G2. I got behind pretty quick and could never catch up in G2 and lost. G3 was pretty epic. We fought hard and ended up stalling out and going to turns. He was over 20 life, but I don't remember exactly (I think 24). On T3, I was able to tutor up my one super secret tech card that no one else runs... Concordant Crossroads! I only had 3 Angels to attack with and a Words of War on the board. I didn't have enough cards or mana to burn him out and get him with the 3 angels because of his 2 thopter tokens left (if I recall correctly). I was able to play Moat, take 2 draws and burn the two tokens. Play my Concordant Crossroads I just drew and burn him for 6, taking him to 18. I then had 5 Angels, and they had haste, and I was able to swing for win. That was a case where having my one super secret tech card won me a game and a round (and it has done so in both SCG Opens I attended).

Rnd 4: Bant Aggro - Colin - 2-0, 3-1.
This ended up being a pretty easy win. It was kind of like playing a Bant version of Canadian Thresh, but with less counter back up and more threats. Wasn't to difficult to play past his counters, and he also drew a Force a turn too late to catch my Words of War. Oh, G1, he had dropped Worship, so I had to waste some time burning off his creatures after I had lock down before killing him.

Rnd 5: RB Goblins - Todd Anderson, 2-1, 4-1.
G1 went my way and I was able to drop stuff and slow him down. He ended up scooping after playing a card wrong, but I was in control anyways with a Moat. G2 he came out of the shoot amazingly fast and I couldn't find answers to slow him down and he took it. G3 I think he took a bad hand, because it took him 3 or 4 turns to play anything, and Goblins should never do that. G3 was tense. I had about 3 turns in a row where I had basically nothing in my hand, with 2 draw effects and a Solitary I dropped because I was about to die. If I had drawn 2 lands in any of those times, I would have been screwed, since I was pitching one card I drew and had to play the other, since they kept being cards I couldn't play after drawing since I had 4 mana. Finally on the 3rd or 4th try, I drew into a Replenish and a Sigil. My turn came around, I let Solitary die and everyone cheered. I then followed it up with the Replenish and brought a lot of stuff back. *sigh* of relief right there and I went on to take the win.

Rnd 6: GWB Rock/Stax/Geddon - Ian Ellis, 2-0, 5-1.
Another awesome guy to play against. Ian was a pleasure to talk to after the game and I think we both had a lot of fun playing our round. G1 was very interesting as I didn't really know what he was playing. He had gotten out ahead and started dropping stuff, had made some Angels, played a blood moon, and he scooped, since he had fetched for all Duals. He told me after the round that the turn after I dropped the Blood Moon, he was going to Geddon, drop a land, and tutor up a Tabernacle with his Reliquary Knight to clear all my tokens. But I derailed that plan. G2, he was able to Geddon with a Goyf on board. He started beating my face in, getting me to 8 before I was able to play the lands and find a Lignify to turn his guy into a tree. Thankfully, I hadn't overextended too far with my lands yet, and had had 2 in my hand and just needed to find that Lignify. From there, I was able to get set up, and play another Bloodmoon (he had basics this time) and went on to take the win from there.

Rnd 7: RU Painter's Servant/Grindstone - 0-2, 5-2.
Such a tough match up. There wasn't much I could do. Painter's Servent naming blue, and then Pyro Blast and REB my stuff away was not fun. Oh well, can't be too pissed about this loss, especially when he was able to combo on T3 after countering my Wheel of Sun and Moon with a REB.

Rnd 8: Zoo - 0-2, 5-3.
He came out super super hot in both games and there wasn't much I could do. Probably wouldn't have made T16 anyways with my tie breakers. Oh well.

Overall, a good showing. Met some awesome people, and was able to chat with another Enchantress player that I met down in Orlando. He didn't do very well. Also went to this Korean BBQ place called Gobawoo. I had Bulgogi. It wasn't too bad, but the experience was a lot of fun and I had a great road trip with some good friends.

What changes, if any, would you make to the deck based on your performance?