Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mossivo1986
FYI Morbid is running a hybrid of my list. Ghusta's right about the draw engine. Its far more cost efficient as well as reaps the rewards you want to get. As for my model i'm actually screwing around with it way more then I want to. Just little changes here and there.
Yup, and it's working out really well at the moment. This is what I'm currently playing with, although I will say my competition isn't top-notch, there is time during play where I feel clunky, and I'm starting to get ideas for tweaking after reading this thread again.
Mana Base: (22)
3x Tundra
1x Underground Sea
1x Scrubland
4x Flooded Strand
3x Mishra's Factory
1x Tolaria West
1x Academy Ruins
1x Dust Bowl
3x Plains
4x Island
Creatures: (3)
2x Vendilion Clique (Working pretty well, I might keep)
1x Eternal Dragon
Permission: (8)
4x Force of Will
4x Counterspell
Draw/Card Control: (12)
4x Standstill
3x SDT
2x Brainstorm
1x Jace Beleran
2x Cunning Wish
Removal: (13)
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Path to Exile
3x Engineered Explosives
2x WoG
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Humility
Finish Him! (4)
2x Decree of Justice
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Sideboard: (15)
3x Spell Snare
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Pulse of the Fields
1x Fracturing Gust
1x Return to Dust
1x Trickbind
1x Extirpate
1x Enlightened Tutor
2x Ajani Goldmane
3x Engineered Plague
Things I'm thinking of / wish I could do:
- Add another Sea / Delta / Swamp for more consistency (too expensive at the moment)
- Also gives the ability to add in Vindicate (also damn expensive at the moment, when the hell did they get up to $15 a pop?!)
- Adding 2 Spell Snare MD, moving a Counterspell and Path to Exile to the wishboard for room.
- Tsabo's Decree (Chance of addition to SB: 90%+)
- Wastelands and Crucible of Worlds (Chance of addition, no idea)
- Wheel of Sun and Moon, which looks wonderful (Chance of addition: 70%+)
- FoF's again (Not sure what to move around in the draw suite for that.
@ Gustha, I see you're running 1 Disk / 1 WoG, what are the merits over running 2x WoG?
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
I failed, horribly. The list was good, but I punted a couple of times, played an epic 48 min landstill mirror and overall I just sucked. I also tailored the sideboard to an aggro and combo metagame and I played 4 control matches out of 7 rounds, so I didn't get to use half of it.
I'll blame it on the lack of sleep and this being the first real tournament I took an actual UWb landstill list to, not gonna bother writing a report or something. Looking forward to the next attempt though :) I already promised myself I'd get a good night's rest and actually eat something so I won't get freaking dizzy with hunger halfway through.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Morbid that deck is not at all what I showed you and your hindering yourself by playing that pile.
Ectoplasm
Quote:
I failed, horribly. The list was good, but I punted a couple of times, played an epic 48 min landstill mirror and overall I just sucked. I also tailored the sideboard to an aggro and combo metagame and I played 4 control matches out of 7 rounds, so I didn't get to use half of it.
I'll blame it on the lack of sleep and this being the first real tournament I took an actual UWb landstill list to, not gonna bother writing a report or something. Looking forward to the next attempt though :) I already promised myself I'd get a good night's rest and actually eat something so I won't get freaking dizzy with hunger halfway through.
What was your record?
Props:
-1st tournament with landstill "Quite a bit different then online play am I right?"
-48 minute landstill mirror "you lucky bastard I love the mirror. Its soo relaxing."
Slops:
-Decklist
-Lack of sleep or Eat
-Loosing the mirror
Quote:
"you silly bitch, we teach you better ways then this!"
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mossivo1986
Morbid that deck is not at all what I showed you and your hindering yourself by playing that pile.
Jesus >_<;;
We gotta have a chit-chat session sometime, then. Later this week?
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Nah, before running landstill at a tournament you are suppose to get less than 3 hours of sleep and drive more hours than you slept to a tournament to have little food but still put wins out of your ass because you are running the best deck in the format.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
I went 2-5 :(
Landstill mirror - The board looked like this: Me with a factory, on 7 life, him with a singleton soldier on 3 life. I swing with factory, he takes it to the face, I pass the turn, he cycles decree for 6 and kills me WHILE I'M HOLDING AN ENGINEERED EXPLOSIVES IN MY HAND, and I knew for a fact that decrees were his last kill.
So yeah, just plain old sucking, nothing fancy about it. I'll do better next time.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ectoplasm
I went 2-5 :(
Landstill mirror - The board looked like this: Me with a factory, on 7 life, him with a singleton soldier on 3 life. I swing with factory, he takes it to the face, I pass the turn, he cycles decree for 6 and kills me WHILE I'M HOLDING AN ENGINEERED EXPLOSIVES IN MY HAND, and I knew for a fact that decrees were his last kill.
So yeah, just plain old sucking, nothing fancy about it. I'll do better next time.
Addition to slops:
-2-5 :confused:
-Failure to fasten your ee seatbelt @ 0. :tongue:
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Yeah well :D Shitsux
Just laugh at me for a bit, I need the motivation, that's why I'm being as forward as possible about it. Honestly, the list seemed to operate smoothly as far as the MD went, but I completely fucked up on the sideboard and the actual playing.
But I guess that comes with experience. I'm used to playing goblins which is pretty much autopilot anyway. To add insult to injury, I borrowed my goblins to a friend who played his first tourney today and he did better than me :)
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ectoplasm
Yeah well :D Shitsux
Just laugh at me for a bit, I need the motivation, that's why I'm being as forward as possible about it. Honestly, the list seemed to operate smoothly as far as the MD went, but I completely fucked up on the sideboard and the actual playing.
But I guess that comes with experience. I'm used to playing goblins which is pretty much autopilot anyway. To add insult to injury, I borrowed my goblins to a friend who played his first tourney today and he did better than me :)
I was totally just riding your ass man!
Sorry if I offended. You did fine. Playing Land still in a tournament setting is worlds harder then testing on m.w.s. though.
Sideboard from Last tournament:
Code:
4x MMage
3x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Halo
2x Ajani
4x Engineered Plague
Try this out:
3 Chant
2 Ajani
4 Path
3 Relic
3 Blast
Possible Main deck Changes
-1 Ruins
-1 Crucible
-1 Standstill
+1 Elspeth or doj, whichever you prefer.
+1 EE
as you get used to that list in tournement play I would suggest -1 brainstorm -2 fof +2 Top +1 Jace
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morbid-
@ Gustha, I see you're running 1 Disk / 1 WoG, what are the merits over running 2x WoG?
I don't. I run 3 EE + 1 Disk in place of the quite normal 3EE. That's a bit different point of view ^^ I cut down 1 wog to make room for a path to exile which:
-is online at t1;
-is better against merfolk;
-is not dead in mirror matches;
-is dead in all other Mu's in which wog is dead too.
Now I can't find room for the second wog, I must cut an EE for it's the only possibile slot I see, but it took ages to go up to 3EE+1 disk, so for the moment I'm not planning to add a 2nd wog (EE works just that better), or I got to go to 24 lands and I can't find room for the 24th land (just for consistency, you know). The urgence here is simply that land, wog is good in 1x for the moment. Yeah, going back to fof also suggests going back to 2 wog's-
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Yeah no offense taken :)
The SB was a complete failure, there's no question I'm going to change it next time. I made a metagame call and I was wrong, even though previous tourneys all pointed in that direction. While scouting pre-games I got a bad feeling about the canonists, but I decided to leave them in anyway which was a mistake.
Ruins didn't do jack except bring a crucible back once, after it got its ass countered, and proceeded to wastelock the opponent. Nice. But I've got my eye on that one :)
Crucible didn't do alot as well besides the aforementioned wastelocking in one game, it seems like a 'joker' of sorts, a nice and random card which is just cool, can be of great help but doesn't help the overall plan of the deck as much as I'd want it to, I've got my eye on you as well!
I might remove either or both of these cards since they seem like random 'jokers' more or less, adding a little cute extra trick but not helping the overall gameplan and in my opinion, UWb landstill is supposed to be the reliable deck which plays almost the same every game and doesn't try cheat with cute tricks but wins by pure cardadvantage and answers.
Going to 3 standstills? I don't know :/
One more killcon seems solid, I've considered jace but like I said I made a metagame call and decided against him, I might just throw him in for kicks and get raped by aggro next time :D Who knows.
But yeah, I've playtested a bit before entering and it is indeed alot different from playing online, it seems a bit more... chaotic perhaps. Which is why I'm sure it's just a lack of experience keeping me down right now.
One small example is that I can't seem to find a comfortable way of positioning my lands on the table. Right now I put all the duals in one row, the basics in another and the colourless lands in a 3rd row but the table just looks so messy whenever I'm playing, especially in a long game I tend to overlook things simply because the gamestate seems like a mess, because of all the shiny cards that clutter up the table.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Mossivo, I see you are using and suggesting to use only 3 Brainstorms. I'm also considering that (since I use 2 Tops) but find it a hard choice to make because of its great use against discard, quick search, and it being pitchable to Force. I find it hard to take out, especially since I'm only running 20 blue cards including FoW's.
Ectoplasm, I agree with you about the Crucible but it can be so powerful in the right circumstances. Mishra's Factories, Wastelands, and Tolaria West can be bombs with it on the board and help alot in the mirror but sometimes I feel a better card could be used. I don't run any WoG at the moment and use 1 Disk and Humilities, instead but taking out the Crucible for a lone Wrath could be a good choice. Hard choice to make!
I also saw someone posted trying out a 3-3 split of SS and Counterspell, I'm thinking the same as well but time and testing will help that one.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ultimoman
Mossivo, I see you are using and suggesting to use only 3 Brainstorms. I'm also considering that (since I use 2 Tops) but find it a hard choice to make because of its great use against discard, quick search, and it being pitchable to Force. I find it hard to take out, especially since I'm only running 20 blue cards including FoW's.
Most builds run an average of 18 blue cards. Cutting down to 18-19 isn't that bad, really. Besides that, this deck feels naked when you FoW early in the game (which is why you run 4 Standstills).
Also, the natural evolution of Landstill has always swayed more towards a White-based control deck. Even if you run cards like Clique, it doesn't stop the fact the only reason why Landstill is thriving is because it's a board control deck. You could easily design it to fight opposing control and combo decks, but the more efficient way of even fighting those decks in general is to play a different deck. Landstill is amazing because it
Quote:
Ectoplasm, I agree with you about the Crucible but it can be so powerful in the right circumstances. Mishra's Factories, Wastelands, and Tolaria West can be bombs with it on the board and help alot in the mirror but sometimes I feel a better card could be used.
Not just the mirror. Crucible of Worlds is amazing against Merfolk and Vial Goblins as well. I cant help but stress that if my mana base stabilizes, I can easily use my superior control elements to wreck Merfolk. Merfolk is generally a really weak deck if you can keep them in check for 7 turns and still consistently make land drops. Also, EEs are very important in this match up. EE for 1 clears Cursecatchers and Vials, which is really good. But take your time with your mana base first.
Quote:
I don't run any WoG at the moment and use 1 Disk and Humilities, instead but taking out the Crucible for a lone Wrath could be a good choice. Hard choice to make!
Your list sounds clunky and indecisive. Post it, and we'll critique it.
Quote:
I also saw someone posted trying out a 3-3 split of SS and Counterspell, I'm thinking the same as well but time and testing will help that one.
That is probably me.
@The Rockout situation: everybody should respect the man. I've read a lot of his posts, and he knows a good deal of what he's talking about. I've disagreed with him before, but that still doesn't change the fact he guy knows what he's talking about. Listen to him.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ectoplasm
I do *not* like dust bowl. One wasteland from the other side of the table and your LD potential is gone, I'll probably never play it.
I might try and make room for humility though.
This might be crazy, but has any one ever tried -wait for it- MORE than 1 dust bowl? My experience with UWb Landstill has been playing against it, but this card has always been pretty devastating to play against under standstill for me, and if one Wasteland undoes it, maybe 2-3 (in place of Wasteland) would be reasonable/balling?
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
I ran two for a while. It's ok, but I've switched back to Wastelands since they are less mana-intensive. Most of the time I was just using Dust Bowls just to destroy one or two utility lands, and not lock my opponent out.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citrus-God
Most builds run an average of 18 blue cards. Cutting down to 18-19 isn't that bad, really. Besides that, this deck feels naked when you FoW early in the game (which is why you run 4 Standstills).
Also, the natural evolution of Landstill has always swayed more towards a White-based control deck. Even if you run cards like Clique, it doesn't stop the fact the only reason why Landstill is thriving is because it's a board control deck. You could easily design it to fight opposing control and combo decks, but the more efficient way of even fighting those decks in general is to play a different deck. Landstill is amazing because it
Hmm, you're right, I suppose I could take out the 4th Brainstorm for something. I do use 3 Standstills though instead of 4, I find that 4 can sometimes sit there when I need something to handle the current situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citrus-God
Not just the mirror. Crucible of Worlds is amazing against Merfolk and Vial Goblins as well. I cant help but stress that if my mana base stabilizes, I can easily use my superior control elements to wreck Merfolk. Merfolk is generally a really weak deck if you can keep them in check for 7 turns and still consistently make land drops. Also, EEs are very important in this match up. EE for 1 clears Cursecatchers and Vials, which is really good. But take your time with your mana base first.
Indeed, this is true. I was thinking of taking the Crucible out and putting it in the sideboard but perhaps I'll leave it in and add a WoG in place of a Brainstorm instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citrus-God
Your list sounds clunky and indecisive. Post it, and we'll critique it.
Alright, here it is:
Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [RAV] Island (3)
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [R] Tundra
3 [6E] Plains (3)
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)
2 [A] Underground Sea
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [TE] Wasteland
Planeswalkers:
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 [LRW] Jace Beleren
Spells:
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [MM] Counterspell
2 [JU] Cunning Wish
2 [TE] Humility
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
3 [OD] Standstill
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [5E] Nevinyrral's Disk
1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
Sideboard:
1 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
2 [LRW] Ajani Goldmane
1 [TSP] Return to Dust
3 [CFX] Path to Exile
2 [PLC] Extirpate
3 [UL] Engineered Plague
1 [SHM] Fracturing Gust
1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
@ultimoman, Jak.
Vindicate and Maelstrom Pulse are the great swiss army knives of Legacy. This is because there is little to nothing they can't kill, making them safe pre-board plays. If I ran black, I would be running Vindicates.
(Man... if people think Vindicate is slow... they need to try the old Crystal Quarry and Legacy Weapon Standard combo. xD)
@Morbid-
I find SDT without the Counterbalance to be a bit weird personally. And you maindeck Relic of Progenitus? Alongside an Eternal Dragon? Oo"
@Ectoplasm
If he isn't sporting green, priming an EE for 0 in that situation would have been in your favor. I mean, honestly, pretty much everything Landstill has that kills you costs 0 or 7. That is, unless they run Vendillion Clique or something rogueish.
I don't understand why we should cut Standstill to 3. Generally speaking, it's win-win. If they break it ASAP, it's 2 card advantage. If they wait, you get turns, and UWx Landstill is typically a late game deck.
What does everyone think about Faith's Fetters as a non-black solution to Planeswalkers? Juntu Stakes? Lol.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taishaku
@ultimoman, Jak.
Vindicate and Maelstrom Pulse are the great swiss army knives of Legacy. This is because there is little to nothing they can't kill, making them safe pre-board plays. If I ran black, I would be running Vindicates.
Thanks for telling me what the card does. You missed the point of my post. Black, green, and blue have no good, cheap removal that can just hit everything like Swords. This is the only thing holding it back. Relying on Maelstrom Pulse as your targetted removal is bad. By the time you play it, you will be too far behind.
Edit-
And the reason people are cutting Standstills is because some decks (ie Dreadstill, Merfolk, Goblins, etc) can play under it better so it will sit in your hand until you get the opportunity to play it.
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taishaku
@Morbid-
I find SDT without the Counterbalance to be a bit weird personally. And you maindeck Relic of Progenitus? Alongside an Eternal Dragon? Oo"
I don't understand why we should cut Standstill to 3. Generally speaking, it's win-win. If they break it ASAP, it's 2 card advantage. If they wait, you get turns, and UWx Landstill is typically a late game deck.
I was recommended SDT by mossivo, and so far it's been a great addition. You can do enough tricky things with it to really fix your draws and get cards that you need quickly, especially with shuffle capability (fetches, Tolaria West, Eternal, ET from the SB). Try it out?
And yeah, only reason I have ED right now is for a little extra help on the cycling front, as you can see, my list only has 4 fetches (ideally, I would like to run a Delta in there somewhere). I know it has a negative synergy with Relic (or rather, Relic has a negative synergy with it), but I do time my graveyard removals well, and if ED goes away, so be it.
Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jak.
And the reason people are cutting Standstills is because some decks (ie Dreadstill, Merfolk, Goblins, etc) can play under it better so it will sit in your hand until you get the opportunity to play it.
Probably the reason I'll cut mine back down to 3...
Re: [DTB] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ultimoman
Hmm, you're right, I suppose I could take out the 4th Brainstorm for something. I do use 3 Standstills though instead of 4, I find that 4 can sometimes sit there when I need something to handle the current situation.
I've been running 3 FoF and 3 Standstills lately. But that's beside the point, my reasoning for cutting the 4th Standstill was so that I can cast something over an active Counterbalance.
Merfolk is starting to run Standstill themselves, which isn't a big problem, because it's a contradicting card against you. They can't mana screw you with Stifle obviously, and the only card they were have on you is Vial, which can easily be removed by EE. Anyways, just play more cards that operate under Standstill more effectively, like Wasteland/Dust Bowl, Factories, and 2-3 DoJs. Also, don't break Standstill immediately (unless your opponent as an active Vial out as well) until you've stabilized your mana base. Even if he has Mutavaults, you can definitely waste opposing manlands and block with your own Factories.
Quote:
Indeed, this is true. I was thinking of taking the Crucible out and putting it in the sideboard but perhaps I'll leave it in and add a WoG in place of a Brainstorm instead.
You know, I have always been a fan of Wrath of God. No joke. I will never run less than 3. If you aren't running WoG, you should be running Path of Exile.
Quote:
Alright, here it is:
Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [RAV] Island (3)
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
4 [R] Tundra
3 [6E] Plains (3)
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)
2 [A] Underground Sea
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [TE] Wasteland
Planeswalkers:
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 [LRW] Jace Beleren
Spells:
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [MM] Counterspell
2 [JU] Cunning Wish
2 [TE] Humility
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
3 [OD] Standstill
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [5E] Nevinyrral's Disk
1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
Sideboard:
1 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
2 [LRW] Ajani Goldmane
1 [TSP] Return to Dust
3 [CFX] Path to Exile
2 [PLC] Extirpate
3 [UL] Engineered Plague
1 [SHM] Fracturing Gust
1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
Cut Disk for WoG. WoG is a much better card than Disk in the long run because it can bait swarms of creatures toward you. Ever dropped an Elspeth and made your opponent overextend? It's quite satisfying, and definitely not a dangerously "cool" play. Also, running 23 lands is very dangerous. You should run 25 mana sources for sure. The fact you make constant land drops let's you get away with casting cards like WoG, Tsabo's Decree and Fracturing Gust and still be out of Daze + Cursecatcher ranger.
Also, cut a Humility for an Enlighten Tutor. Post board, it can find EE and complete the Academy Ruins + EE lock if you fear Krosan Grip at any point in time. Better yet, it can find CoW too, so you have two maindeck copies by extension.
As for the SB, you should cut Relic and the 2nd Extirpate. Those cards aren't very strong and there are much better forms of grave hate if you really want grave hate. Consider Planar Void, Tormod's Crypt or even Yixlid Jailer.
