[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

Just finished 4th in a 20+person LGS tournament. Won a Belcher deck in quarterfinal, and lost to mirror in semifinal. Some thoughts:

Against RUG delver decks, Deathrite shaman is our hero. He crushed opponenet's daze-wasteland(-stifle) system single-handly.

And extirpate is an effective sb choice against RUG delver. I have extirpate a tropical island at turn2, and directly won. Surgical extraction, however, is less reliable.

Jund is a fairly hard matchup. In fact all the aggro decks which is backed with many "Burn" spells would bring problem to us...but since Zoo fell out of the radar, Jund is the typical example.

Sculler is not popular in MD ,but in sb he may be better than extra discard spells. Opponent cannot misdirection or spellpirece the effect,and cannot flashback that disabled card.

I've been running B/W since Delver was printed, and I've never had any trouble with Delver outside of their god hands. Only lost 2 matches and drawn one due to my own misplay. I'm sure Deathrite helps, but he's not necessary to win this matchup.

I'm surprised Jund's giving you trouble. The matchup seemed very winnable, and the Jund primer lists our deck among it's worst matchups. Similar game plans, but we've got better removal in StP, resilance to discard in Souls, and generally a better manabase.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by evilGod

I've been running B/W since Delver was printed, and I've never had any trouble with Delver outside of their god hands. Only lost 2 matches and drawn one due to my own misplay. I'm sure Deathrite helps, but he's not necessary to win this matchup.

I'm surprised Jund's giving you trouble. The matchup seemed very winnable, and the Jund primer lists our deck among it's worst matchups. Similar game plans, but we've got better removal in StP, resilance to discard in Souls, and generally a better manabase.

---

Print of Lingering souls in DKA has already improve the matchup, but it and lili are both 3cc spells, our deck were still vulnerable to mana disruption kits at that time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wilkin

My Personal View on Leyline of Sanctity. IMHO, it's a great sideboard card if you are a combo deck....less so for us. Unless your meta is full of Burn and Belcher I wouldn't use Leyline of Sanctity.

Leyline is great for combo decks to help protect from the first/second turn Thoughtseize and then going off. We don't have that luxury. Secondly, you need at least 3 Leylines in the board....and that means more damage from Bob. Taking 4 for Hero or Elspeth is fine because it could win you the game.....taking 4 to help prolong the game with Leyline....I would say it's not worth it.

---

Agree with you. Even against this 2 decks mentioned, Leyline of Sanctity is not effective.

Belcher deck typically has 11 win-condition, 4 belcher + 4 wish + 3 EtW. Althrough the deck is called "belcher", belcher only has about 36%(even less than that, since blecher need 4+3 =7 mana to work, wish+EtW need 6, EtW casted from hand need 4) apperance in a successful "Blah!".They would mostly win from goblins. Zealous Persecution is more effective.

And if we really need to consider Burn, ring of protection + tutor is the best answer,along with any lifegain cards. To resist Griselbrand, many burn decks have been tweaked to have 3~4 Sulfuric Vortex. I can't see Leyline of Sanctity do anything about this.

I do have a crazy idee and direction for the deck im gonna test out when my Blood Scriveners arrives to me. Plan involves Death's Shadow as well. Been wanting to play with gitaxian Probe with Cabal Therapy for a while but havent had a real reason to have them in the deck. But with Blood Scrivener you draw 2 cards for 3 lifes and no mana wich is pretty damn good. As the deck is gonna have so much life payment Death's Shadow is gonna be quite reliable large creature. Playing Death's Shadow also allows for Orzhov Charm. While the idee is wild imo I have to try it out.

I love your sideboard, I have a deck similar to Deadguy that has a board almost exactly like that. I actually maindeck all four tutors and fetch a bitterblossom asap. Let us know how that board does for you in different situations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raistlin Majere

I just started playing this deck last week and was able to get Top 4 this week at my local shop after going an abysmal 1-2 the week before. Just wanted to do a little tournament report and post my deck list to see what you all think.

Deck List:

Creatures:
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark confidant
3x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Hero of Bladehold

Instants:
4x Swords to plowshares
2x Abrupt Decay

Sorceries:
4x Lingering Souls
3x Inquistion of Kozilek
3x Cabal Therapy
1x Vindicate

Artifacts:
2x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Batterskull
1x Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice

Planeswalkers:
3x Liliana of the Veil

Lands:
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Marsh Flats
4x Scrubland
4x Wasteland
1x Bayou
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Swamp
2x Plains

Sideboard:
3x Duress
2x Perish
2x Zealous Persecution
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Ethersworn Cannoist
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Diabolic Edict

Round 1: Team Italia

Game one: I win the roll and keep a pretty slow hand of four lands, lingering souls, jitte, and Liliana. I never got going in this game but his Bob deals him 13 damage through the game and I am able to flashback a lingering souls and cast a deathrite once he is at two from Bob triggers and fetching and he scoops.

I don't know this match up at all and only bring in Nihil Spellbomb and Oblivion Ring, forgot what I took out.

Game two: I take a good hand with Hero and Deathrite Shaman and some other cards, I play turn one Shaman and pass. He swords my shaman and passes back, I play Bob and pass turn he plays Grim Lavamancer and passes back. Reveal a land off of Bob and draw my second Hero of Bladehold, I play a land and pass back to him. He shoots my Bob with lavamancer and then takes a Stoneforge out of my hand with an Inquisition. I draw Sword of Fire and Ice for the turn and just start slamming bombs at this point because he has one card in hand. I play Hero and pass, he top decks Liliana and make me sac, I play my second Hero and pass, he swords to plowshares it and passes. I slam Sword of Fire and Ice and he finally doesn't have an answer, he floods out and can't deal with my lingering souls tokens after I kill his Lavamancer.

1-0

Round 2: Punishing Jund

Game one: I'll make this one short and sweet, I get nothing going and he steam rolls me, looking at the life sheet I did nothing to him and the only damage he took was from fetching once.

Bring in Sword of Feast and Famine, Nihil Spellbomb, and 2x Perish. Take out Sword of Fire, one Bob, a Cabal therapy and another card I don't recall.

Game Two: I lead off with top and pass, he plays Deathrite Shaman. Many turns later we are both top decking and he has the punishing fire engine going, I spin my top end of his turn to find a wasteland for one of his groves. Next turn I find another wasteland for his second grove and then play a Deathrite Shaman, next turn I find Stoneforge into Feast and Famine followed by lingering souls and it was my game from there.

Bring in two surgicals take out two other cards.

Game three: Go down to six with my hand being four lands Liliana and Lingering souls. I draw literally all lands until the final two turns where I draw Top after he has already played Pithing needle naming Top and then abrupt decay when it was too late.

1-1

Round 3: Mono-White Stax

Game One: I win the roll and keep my seven. I play land go, and he plays Mox Diamond into City of Traitors into Trinisphere. Luckily I have a bunch of three drops in my hand so it didn't really effect my game plan. I play a land and pass and he plays ghostly prison and passes back. I cast lingering souls and pass turn, he plays another Mox Diamond and passes back. I then hit turn four and get to play Hero of Bladehold, which I heard is pretty good against Ghostly Prison. I get to swing for 9 with Hero and a soul token. He then O-rings my hero and passes back. I then play sword of fire and ice and equip, from there I swung two more times and won.

Brought in 3x Duress and 1x O-ring. Took out 3x Inquisiton and 1x Jitte.

Game Two: He starts off with land into Mox diamond and passes turn. He doesn't play anything else the rest of the game and I win. I was able to vindicate his mox diamond and then waste his Savannah then next turn.

2-1

Round 4: UWR Miracles

These games went on for almost the whole round and were very fun but I forgot most of the details. I will come back and add to this section later on when I can review my notes. I won in three games.

3-1

Top 8: Bant Maverick

Game One: I was the top seed so I got to choose to be on the play. I keep my seven and he mulligans, I start off with Deathrite Shaman and he plays Noble Heirarch. I then play turn two Liliana and have him sac his noble and I pass turn. He plays another noble and passes back. I tic up Liliana and then play a turn three Hero of Bladehold and he wasn't able to beat that.

Brought in 2x Perish and 1x Feast and Famine. Took out 1x Sword of Fire and Ice, 1x Liliana and something else I can't remember.

Game Two: I mull down to six and keep a hand with turn three perish. He leads off with noble and passes, I play a land and pass back. He plays and land and then cast a Knight of the Reliquary. I play a second land and pass back, he plays another noble and cracks a fetch land and swings for 5 and passes back. I play my third land and cast perish and from there he is out of gas and I just beat down with Lingering souls and Batterskull.

4-1


Sorry if this tournament report kind of sucked, it is my first one and I play on writing better notes from my games. Let me know what you guys think of my list.

---

Huge rules change.

"Let's play 4 Liliana"

Just went 2-1 (SPlit top 8 because we wanted to go home) with my buddies copy of the deck.

G1 Modern Kiki Pod

I got massacred. That is all I can say. G1 I just died to the beats of persist dudes, restoration angels, and Murderous Red Caps. G2 He again got pod, but he topdecked well and got combo pieces and I died.

G2 UBw Tezzeret

Not much here either. G1 I drew a bunch off of confidant, and ligering souls brought the pain. DRS finished the job by dealing a bunch of damage. I did get to Ultimate Liliana splitting up his ensnaring bridge and Engineered Explosives from his lands. He died because he never got to actiuvate the EE.
G2 Hero of Blade hold brought the pain. After I played it he enlightened tutors for an ensnaring bridge. My turn I Vindicate the bridge and swing for a bunch.

G3 Mono Blue SnT
G1 I cast a SFM on T2 and kept a pretty bad hand of 5 lands, SFM and STP. He kills me with ETI on T3.
G2 I board in 3 Duress, 2 O RIngs, 2 Surgicals, 2 Silence (Testing it out), a Sword of FaF, and Ethersworn Canonist. Canonist keeps him off of multiple cantrips while therapies tear his hand to shreds. A surgical on Cunning Wish means he cant win so he scoops
G3 He keeps a double White Leyline no lander hand. My hand was like 2 Cabal Therapy, 2 Bobs, A Liliana, Duress and a single land. Uh Oh. Turns out he doesnt draw a land the whole game while I beat with bobs and a canonist.

Split Top 8 With Maverick.

Overall the deck was an interesting one to play. I always wanted to try it out. I would probably play 3 Ethersworn Canonist next time and drop the silences (though silencing my TES opponent after he cracks an LED sounds SWEET). Ive never been a fan of discard + surgical as a way to beat combo, but in this instance it actually did the job. Hero of Bladehold was alright. While it did swing for a bunch, I played a side game and just like in Standard it is still just god awful vs Jace.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tokugawa

Huge rules change.

"Let's play 4 Liliana"

---

Well, that means I´ll drop the second Jitte for Jitte wars^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valech

Well, that means I´ll drop the second Jitte for Jitte wars^^

---

Probly means we need to putback the equipment killer equipment again. Jitte is such a insane card even with the legendary rule :P

But thats not the most power thing you can do with new legendary rule. Now you can Thespian's Stage and Dark Depths with the new legendary rule :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rizso

Probly means we need to putback the equipment killer equipment again. Jitte is such a insane card even with the legendary rule :P

But thats not the most power thing you can do with new legendary rule. Now you can Thespian's Stage and Dark Depths with the new legendary rule :P

---

Stage is even slower than Vampire Hexmage....and nobody plays Hexmage combo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tokugawa

Stage is even slower than Vampire Hexmage....and nobody plays Hexmage combo.

---

Uncountered at turn 3 with only lands if they dont have wasteland its bad luck!

Anyway lol :D Probly 4 lilianas in the deck.


Im very much for playing death's shadow with varolz atm.

Here is my updated list

MD

2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abupt Decay

1 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls
3 Vindicate

1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
2 Liliana of the Veil

2 Bayou
2 Plains
3 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland


Sideboard

1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Perish
2 Rest in Peace
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Extirpate
1 Serenity
1 Circle of Protection : Red
1 Ethersworn Canonist


If you have any comment, please let me know.
Even if my meta is pretty varied, BUG and RUG are very well represented and can give me some trouble.:mad:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlackPurple

Here is my updated list

MD

2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abupt Decay

1 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls
3 Vindicate

1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
2 Liliana of the Veil

2 Bayou
2 Plains
3 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland


Sideboard

1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Perish
2 Rest in Peace
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Extirpate
1 Serenity
1 Circle of Protection : Red
1 Ethersworn Canonist


If you have any comment, please let me know.
Even if my meta is pretty varied, BUG and RUG are very well represented and can give me some trouble.:mad:

---

Have you played in tournaments with your list yet? Which of the most popular decks do you like to play against, which not? Why do you think so?
I'm so very interested to keep this archetype alive. But since there are so many fast combo decks, we can only cross our fingers and hope to have good draws.

I play this deck almost every week in tournaments for a while, and I can say that to perform with this list , skills and luck have to be present.

I have great results against Blade control, tribal, Jund, the Rock,.. but RUG, BUG, combo (as you said) can be really tough to deal with, often give me problems . (playing between counterspells, bolt, Jace, Brainstrom,... without playing blue can be hard)

But I love to play this deck, it's a lot of fun and I like every single card inside.

I like to play 3 Vindicate, Cabal and Thoughtseize against Jace, the gamestealer.:eyebrow:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlackPurple

I play this deck almost every week in tournaments for a while, and I can say that to perform with this list , skills and luck have to be present.

I have great results against Blade control, tribal, Jund, the Rock,.. but RUG, BUG, combo (as you said) can be really tough to deal with, often give me problems . (playing between counterspells, bolt, Jace, Brainstrom,... without playing blue can be hard)

But I love to play this deck, it's a lot of fun and I like every single card inside.

I like to play 3 Vindicate, Cabal and Thoughtseize against Jace, the gamestealer.:eyebrow:

---

The best way for this deck to deal with JTMS IMO is lingering souls. Being evasive, but playing 3 vindicates almost guarantees that you'll draw it throughout the course of the game :P It does become a dead card though against combo...

I personally wouldn't play 3 vindicates though, cause that + LS + liliana and your elspeth, has that ever been too clunky?

I used to be an avid player of Dead Guy until I made the transition over to the Rock, but glad to hear that there's still people interested in developing this deck!

What does Deadguy have over The Rock if it doesn't pack cards that can abuse its stabler manabase? Isn't Hymn better for this deck since it complements Vindicate and Wasteland in the LD package? Seems to me that until you start packing cards that Rock cannot play smoothly, there is no point choosing Deadguy over it. Hymn, Elspeth, Mirran Crusader, Phyrexian Obliterator, and even Mishra's Factory are good examples of such cards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zeph

The best way for this deck to deal with JTMS IMO is lingering souls. Being evasive, but playing 3 vindicates almost guarantees that you'll draw it throughout the course of the game :P It does become a dead card though against combo...

I personally wouldn't play 3 vindicates though, cause that + LS + liliana and your elspeth, has that ever been too clunky?

I used to be an avid player of Dead Guy until I made the transition over to the Rock, but glad to hear that there's still people interested in developing this deck!

---

I agree with you, LS to beat Jace, but BUG players (in my meta) play Deathrite Shaman, Pernicious Deed (or even sometimes Darkblast for the most control version) main deck in addition to the counterspell pack, LS is starting to be less interesting ( i didn't say useless:tongue:).

You're right against combo, Vindicate does nothing (you can still target a land if he has mana problem:rolleyes:), like StP, Abrupt Decay, and half of the deck.:wink:

I know 3 Vindicate is maybe too much with Liliana and elspeth but I'm trying to find a way to play with that with Sensei's Divining Top.
I'm thinking of trying Hero of Blade... in the place of Elspeth, to see how that can work.

How's it going with The Rock?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Qweerios

What does Deadguy have over The Rock if it doesn't pack cards that can abuse its stabler manabase? Isn't Hymn better for this deck since it complements Vindicate and Wasteland in the LD package? Seems to me that until you start packing cards that Rock cannot play smoothly, there is no point choosing Deadguy over it. Hymn, Elspeth, Mirran Crusader, Phyrexian Obliterator, and even Mishra's Factory are good examples of such cards.

---

That's a very pertinent comment. I can only agree with you.
When I look at the last big tournament lists, I see that the bordeline between DGA and The Rock or even Junk is thin.
I tried Hymn when I didn't have all bi-lands but now I have everything in the list , you make me want to try it again, will see. The big problem with Hymn or even discard spells in general, is in my meta 90% of the decks play Brainstrom or ponder, Jace... so they can rebuild their hand pretty quickly, compare to us.

Crusader seems a better card for sideboard though.

Playing the Rock so far has been good, it's just a change from playing straight BW stoneblade haha.

You're right about a lot of cards being dead against combo MUs, but the list I used to play before played 4 targetted discard along with 4 hymns, AND 4 lilianas. Post board I was also able to bring in the ethersworn cannonists + surgical extractions to really mess them up.

I played against shardless bug and aggro/tempo bug a couple times with my dead guy deck and all I gotta say is that top goes a long way in that match up. It's also really important to hit their lands with the set of wastelands that you have. You can do really janky things like wasting their usea and then surigcal/extripate to cut them off of all u/b sources. Other play is that if they hide cards in response to the brainstorm, then you can surgical the 2 cards they put back away, assuming there's a card in the yard for you to take. Hymn also kills them if they don't have a counter for it and even though they can rebuild their hand again with bs/jace/ponder, it's never a bad thing to 2 for 1 them. In the shardless bug match, hymn is almost always going to hit 2 relevant cards against us (whether it's shardless/strix or jace). You should definitely try to put hymns in your deck if you have the proper duals. I won't say it'll turn the entire match up around because a big portion of it still relies on judgment but it's always good to take 2 threats out of their hand and get some "oops, I win" games.

My old list also used to run hero instead of elspeth, the main reason i opted for hero is because she's a faster clock, and that's something that this deck really needs. Our games tend to go long and having something that can deal 7 and then 9 is nothing to laugh at. Hero also dodges spell pierce if your meta is heavy on that, but then it just eats stps like a boss.

I would at least play 3 Liliana and 4 Hymn to Tourach. As Qweerios said, if we want to play BW, we have to use the strongest cards of this color combination. Hymn and Liliana are (very) good in matchups which we do not want to play (e.g. combo). Vindicate - since we have Liliana as well as Abrupt Decay (at least 3 times!) - can be dropped. And as you say the difference of BW and The Rock is marginal because of Deathrite Shaman, who is the way to go at the very moment.
I would play:

Discard:
4 Thougthseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
(3-4 Liliana)

Removal:
4 Swords
3-4 Abrupt Decay
(3-4 Liliana)
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Library Manipulation:
2-3 Sensei's Divining Top

Core-Creatures:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
3 Lingering Souls

Lands:
2 Swamps
1 Plains
3-4 Scrublands
2 Bayou (not more - it's just a green split)
8-9 Saclands (very important to shuffle with Top on board and you can shuffle away Tops as well)
4 Wastelands

Perhaps we should play more basics.
Mirrian Crusader and Hero of Bladehold look interesting. We should give them a try.
What about Sword of Fire and Ice or other additional equipment?


And more interesting, what about the sideboard?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by miko

I would at least play 3 Liliana and 4 Hymn to Tourach. As Qweerios said, if we want to play BW, we have to use the strongest cards of this color combination. Hymn and Liliana are (very) good in matchups which we do not want to play (e.g. combo). Vindicate - since we have Liliana as well as Abrupt Decay (at least 3 times!) - can be dropped. And as you say the difference of BW and The Rock is marginal because of Deathrite Shaman, who is the way to go at the very moment.
I would play:

Discard:
4 Thougthseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
(3-4 Liliana)

Removal:
4 Swords
3-4 Abrupt Decay
(3-4 Liliana)
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Library Manipulation:
2-3 Sensei's Divining Top

Core-Creatures:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
3 Lingering Souls

Lands:
2 Swamps
1 Plains
3-4 Scrublands
2 Bayou (not more - it's just a green split)
8-9 Saclands (very important to shuffle with Top on board and you can shuffle away Tops as well)
4 Wastelands

Perhaps we should play more basics.
Mirrian Crusader and Hero of Bladehold look interesting. We should give them a try.
What about Sword of Fire and Ice or other additional equipment?


And more interesting, what about the sideboard?

---

2 Bayou can NOT support 4 Decay. You can disagree with this conclution, and waste some time to test.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tokugawa

2 Bayou can NOT support 4 Decay. You can disagree with this conclution, and waste some time to test.

---

Not to mention any green spells make this no longer Deadguy Ale.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teluin

Not to mention any green spells make this no longer Deadguy Ale.

---

I also don't like just 2 equipment in the deck. Granted, that list plays Top, but I would play one more equipment.

Since Deadguy doesn't win fast you could very well cast Stoneforge Mystic as a squire. That's really bad. I would definitely recommend Sword of Fire and Ice. Shock and draw is huge plus we play some sort of fliers and lots of removal to help push the equipped creature through.

Yeah, I've seen people put lists that have Knight of the Reliquary and Goyf. That's no longer deadguy IMHO at that point. It's junk or rock. A fine deck but it's not Deadguy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teluin

Not to mention any green spells make this no longer Deadguy Ale.

---

I cannot agree with you. People tend to be against changes for the reason, "that that is not the old deck I used to know".

I don´t link deck names with colors but with playstyle. Deadguy Ale for example is a aggro-controle deck, strong in mid-range and against creature based decks. If splashing green serves this concept I am willing to do so and still call it DGA.

Deadguy has always been a heavy discard deck with Wasteland and Dark Confidant to refil resources. Rock is more the midrange deck that has existed sense like tempest or so. with overall higher cc and mana acc. While modern has been on controlling the board with deed and creatures with resources tide to them sakura tribe elder, wall of blossom and baloths. Rock is a green based deck while deadguy is a blackbased deck.

Adding a couple of greenspells doesnt make the deadguy into rock.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rizso

Adding a couple of greenspells doesnt make the deadguy into rock.

---

Doesn't make it Deadguy either though. Anyway, don't really want to debate this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teluin

Doesn't make it Deadguy either though. Anyway, don't really want to debate this.

---

Well, you brought it up.

I feel like that playing just BW for deadguy in a more grindy aggro control shell is not as effective as playing other BWx decks. I'm talking about playing esper stoneblade or the rock. I've been playing deadguy (just BW) for over a year now and it's still fun and solid as a deck, but I think that if you want play attrition-based games deadguy can only take you so far. In esper decks they have jaces and brainstorms to get their cards back, rock as sylvan library/tops and bobs. We have tops and bobs. I just think that they have more options at their disposal, but at the cost of having a shakier mana base.

In my opinion, if I were to play deadguy again, I would play the vial based decks. The deck that runs tidehollow sculler, phyrexian revoker, etc etc. I think that deck is absolutely bonkers because it's so much more aggressive and always pressures multiple threats each turn while destroying their hand/mana base as well. However, that deck is more volatile and can have those nut hands but also mulligans a lot worse. I think the only down side is that you don't get to play lingering souls :( that card is so good. If anyone has a recent vial-based deadguy list that they would like to share, that'd be great! I'd love to see what people have and what their SB is for that style of play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tokugawa

2 Bayou can NOT support 4 Decay. You can disagree with this conclution, and waste some time to test.

---

True. That is why I added Deathrite Shaman. Having 8-9 Saclands is good as well.

Hello, I am new to Legacy and The Source. I just played Dead Guy with a green splash in my first competitive Legacy event over the weekend. I got crushed mostly due to my inexperience i believe, but here is my list. Any suggestions on cards or play methods would be more than appreciated. I should also mention that I am still on a relatively budget list.

Lands:
Bayou x1
Scrubland x2
Godless Shrine x1
Marsh Flats x4
Verdant Catacombs x4
Plains x1
Swamp x7
Wasteland x2

Creatures:
Deathrite Shaman x4
Dark Confidant x4
Stoneforge Mystic x4
Tidehollow Sculler x2
Hero of Bladehold x1

Instants and Sorceries:
Swords to Plowshares x4
Cabal Therapy x2
Inquisition of Kozilek x3
Hymn to Tourach x2
Abrupt decay x2
Lingering souls x3
Vindicate x1

Artifacts:
Umezawa's Jitte x1
Batterskull x1
Sword of Fire and Ice x1

Planeswalkers:
Liliana of the Veil x2
Sorin Lord of Innistrad x1


Sideboard:
Duress x1
Oblivion Ring x1
Cabal Therapy x2
Surgical Extraction x2
Perish x1
Engineered Plague x2
Enlightened Tutor x1
Zealous Persecution x1
Pithing Needle x1
Ensnaring Bridge x1
Rest in Peace x1
Relic of Progenitus x1

As I said, in my first tournament I got crushed. I got the by round one then proceeded to lose the next three rounds.

Round 1
By

Round 2: Miracles 0-2
I played against my friend who was playing UWr Miracles. Even though our games outside tournaments seem to go only about 40-60 in his favor I lost the first two games. The only notes that seemed relevant concerning these games were: "got Jaced." Usually if he sticks a Jace against me the game is over unless my board state can outrace unsummon. This is rare due to his accessibility to Terminus. My sideboard plan for game two(which went essentially the same way regardless) was:

Out: StP x4, Hero of Bladehold x1, DRS x2
In: Duress x1, Cabal Therapy x2, Pithing Needle x1, Enlightened Tutor x1, Surgical extraction x2

Round 3: Zombardments 0-2
He pretty much out raced, out removaled me, and in both games I ended up scooping once he landed his namesake enchantment. I cannot remember which game the most eventful plays occured but in one of the games I played a Tidehollow Sculler onto an empty board, he revealed Sculler, LS, and Bombardments. I took the Bombardments and proceeded to waste his only white source. He then top decked a fetch and then a swords to plowshares. One game I got myself two-for-oned because I forgot to play around the Cabal Therapy that he named SFM with. My sideboard plan for game two, which ended up being irrelevant for lacking of seeing any of the cards as well as not seeing any DRSs, went like this:

Out: Inquisition x3, Therapy x2, Hymn x2, Swamp -- Not sure if this is right, but discard seems bad against his deck so I went for it. The swamp is because I manage to flood myself frequently, which leads me to believe that I should cut a land.
In: RIP x1, E. Tutor, Engineered plague x2, Relic of Progenitus x1, Surgical x2, Zealous Persecution

Round 4: OmniTell 1-2
In game one and game three he was simply able to go off unopposed. Game two, which I managed to take, went how I expected a good game of DGA v. Combo to go. I cast hand disruption spells and killed him with Batterskull. The sideboard was something similar to:

Out: Sword of Fire and Ice x1, Jitte x1, SFM x1, StP x4,
In:Duress x1, Oblivion Ring x1, E. Tutor x1, Cabal Therapy x2, Surgical x2

The most disappointing part of the tournament was getting the by round one. I really enjoy Legacy thus far and just wanted to play, so missing out on round one was not ideal.

Hey Astrus,
just a few minor things.
Drop the Scullers. They are good, but not as exploitive as in the vial version. Add two Scrublands and a Bayou, drop the Godless Shrine. Add two Wastelands. Add at least 1 Liliana and decide between Sorin and Hero of Bladehold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valech

Hey Astrus,
just a few minor things.
Drop the Scullers. They are good, but not as exploitive as in the vial version. Add two Scrublands and a Bayou, drop the Godless Shrine. Add two Wastelands. Add at least 1 Liliana and decide between Sorin and Hero of Bladehold.

---

That all sound right. I was having a hard time deciding about sculler. All the other things you mentioned I planned on changing with time (and money). I think I like Sorin better as control has a harder time with him than Hero. Hero is also awful vs. Jace decks. Would sticking a second Sorin in instead be good, or should I just cut that slot all together?

What do you think is a suitable/cheap temporary replacement for scullers?
Also do you think that the Vial version is better? (I may have access to vials)

TBh just save up and get thoughtseizes nothing is as strong as them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rizso

TBh just save up and get thoughtseizes nothing is as strong as them.

---

Do you think that Hymn to Tourach would be alright temporarily Instead of Sculler?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Astrus

Hello, I am new to Legacy and The Source. I just played Dead Guy with a green splash in my first competitive Legacy event over the weekend. I got crushed mostly due to my inexperience i believe, but here is my list. Any suggestions on cards or play methods would be more than appreciated. I should also mention that I am still on a relatively budget list.

Lands:
Bayou x1
Scrubland x2
Godless Shrine x1
Marsh Flats x4
Verdant Catacombs x4
Plains x1
Swamp x7
Wasteland x2

Creatures:
Deathrite Shaman x4
Dark Confidant x4
Stoneforge Mystic x4
Tidehollow Sculler x2
Hero of Bladehold x1

Instants and Sorceries:
Swords to Plowshares x4
Cabal Therapy x2
Inquisition of Kozilek x3
Hymn to Tourach x2
Abrupt decay x2
Lingering souls x3
Vindicate x1

Artifacts:
Umezawa's Jitte x1
Batterskull x1
Sword of Fire and Ice x1

Planeswalkers:
Liliana of the Veil x2
Sorin Lord of Innistrad x1


Sideboard:
Duress x1
Oblivion Ring x1
Cabal Therapy x2
Surgical Extraction x2
Perish x1
Engineered Plague x2
Enlightened Tutor x1
Zealous Persecution x1
Pithing Needle x1
Ensnaring Bridge x1
Rest in Peace x1
Relic of Progenitus x1

As I said, in my first tournament I got crushed. I got the by round one then proceeded to lose the next three rounds.

Round 1
By

Round 2: Miracles 0-2
I played against my friend who was playing UWr Miracles. Even though our games outside tournaments seem to go only about 40-60 in his favor I lost the first two games. The only notes that seemed relevant concerning these games were: "got Jaced." Usually if he sticks a Jace against me the game is over unless my board state can outrace unsummon. This is rare due to his accessibility to Terminus. My sideboard plan for game two(which went essentially the same way regardless) was:

Out: StP x4, Hero of Bladehold x1, DRS x2
In: Duress x1, Cabal Therapy x2, Pithing Needle x1, Enlightened Tutor x1, Surgical extraction x2

Round 3: Zombardments 0-2
He pretty much out raced, out removaled me, and in both games I ended up scooping once he landed his namesake enchantment. I cannot remember which game the most eventful plays occured but in one of the games I played a Tidehollow Sculler onto an empty board, he revealed Sculler, LS, and Bombardments. I took the Bombardments and proceeded to waste his only white source. He then top decked a fetch and then a swords to plowshares. One game I got myself two-for-oned because I forgot to play around the Cabal Therapy that he named SFM with. My sideboard plan for game two, which ended up being irrelevant for lacking of seeing any of the cards as well as not seeing any DRSs, went like this:

Out: Inquisition x3, Therapy x2, Hymn x2, Swamp -- Not sure if this is right, but discard seems bad against his deck so I went for it. The swamp is because I manage to flood myself frequently, which leads me to believe that I should cut a land.
In: RIP x1, E. Tutor, Engineered plague x2, Relic of Progenitus x1, Surgical x2, Zealous Persecution

Round 4: OmniTell 1-2
In game one and game three he was simply able to go off unopposed. Game two, which I managed to take, went how I expected a good game of DGA v. Combo to go. I cast hand disruption spells and killed him with Batterskull. The sideboard was something similar to:

Out: Sword of Fire and Ice x1, Jitte x1, SFM x1, StP x4,
In:Duress x1, Oblivion Ring x1, E. Tutor x1, Cabal Therapy x2, Surgical x2

The most disappointing part of the tournament was getting the by round one. I really enjoy Legacy thus far and just wanted to play, so missing out on round one was not ideal.

---

It's okay if you didn't do well this tournament, everyone has to start somewhere!

My initial suggestions to your deck list would be to cut down on the number of swamps you have and play at least 2 plains if you can. Also try to get wastelands as your main priority because they are just so good against any deck. You can still play the BW shockland if you're on a budget because most of the time it won't matter, unless you're playing against hyper aggressive decks. I would also add another GB shock (or bayou, if you have one :P) so that you dont have -close-to-dead- abrupt decays once they waste your only bayou.

The creature list you have is pretty solid, but if you're going to play tidehollow sculler I would first recommend you switch over to the vial verison as stated above, or if you want to play him but don't want to play vials at least play a set of it. Personally though I would just cut the 2 scullers in place of 2 more hymn to tourachs. Hymns are so powerful and everyone seems to underestimate this card, but always getting 2 for 1 is a good deal! I think that having 5 targeted discard and then 4 hymns along with 2 lilianas should be pretty good at keeping opponent's hands to a minimum. I'd like to make a note that if you're relatively new to playing legacy, it's pretty hard to get blind therapies accurately so I would either complete the set of inquisitions, or get thoughtseizes. I think that Sorin is more a SB card than being in the main 60, so I would put him in the SB. With that slot freed up you can replace that with either another vindicate or liliana.

As for your SB, I would definitely replace the duress with another enlightened tutor so that you can fetch for your key enchantments more frequently if you need them. Also since you already have 2 more therapies in the board I think having 8 targeted discard is too much, when you have hymns and lilianas. I would also try to get humility and ethersworn cannonist in the board if you are going for the e-tutor package because they are very relevant cards in combo match ups (humilty for snt, ethersworn for TES, ANT, SI, etc)

In the miracles match up, I would've brought in the oblivion ring for sure because they don't really have an answer to that if it resolves. You can use it to get Jace and ends up being one less to worry about. Post board miracles will generally side out most of their counterspells so bringing in the oring definitely helps. Your board doesn't have too much dedicated to any controlling/grindy match ups so I would suggest putting in another sorin in the board if you can make it fit!

Your boarding for zombardment was 100% correct, taking out the discard is generally what you want to do because most of the time they will get value out of it. I would've taken out the hymns instead of cabals so that I can at least try to blind cabal their stps or bombardment instead of randomly discarding a gravecrawler and bloodghast :( Obviously the etutor will be rip most of the time because that basically neuters the entire deck, but I guess you weren't lucky enough to get either of them. This match up shouldn't be too hard because we have lots of ways to win against them. rip kills them, plagues kill them, active jitte stops them, batterskull makes the game out of reach for them.

The Omnitell match up is very strange because it's either they have it or they don't. Bringing in all the discard seems correct while taking out the obvious dead cards. Liliana is a boss in this match up, she just annihilates the opponent like no other.

That's all I got for now, if you have any questions or discussions lemme know! Hope this feedback helps!

Oh and here's my list for reference if you need it :) I've moved on to playing the rock but I still have all the cards to assemble this deck if need be haha.

Lands:

2x Bayou
4x Marsh Flats
1x Plains
4x Scrubland
2x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
1x Karakas
22

Creatures:

4x Dark Confidant
4x Deathrite Shaman
3x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Hero of Bladehold
13

Planeswalkers:

4x Liliana of the Veil
4

Spells:

3x Thoughtseize
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Inquisiton of Kozilek
1x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Lingering Souls
2x Vindicate
1x Batterskull
2x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Hymn to Tourach
21

SB:

2x Abrupt Decay
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Perish
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Pithing Needle
1x Rest in Peace
2x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1x Engineered Plague
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Humility
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
15

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zeph

It's okay if you didn't do well this tournament, everyone has to start somewhere!

My initial suggestions to your deck list would be to cut down on the number of swamps you have and play at least 2 plains if you can. Also try to get wastelands as your main priority because they are just so good against any deck. You can still play the BW shockland if you're on a budget because most of the time it won't matter, unless you're playing against hyper aggressive decks. I would also add another GB shock (or bayou, if you have one :P) so that you dont have -close-to-dead- abrupt decays once they waste your only bayou.

The creature list you have is pretty solid, but if you're going to play tidehollow sculler I would first recommend you switch over to the vial verison as stated above, or if you want to play him but don't want to play vials at least play a set of it. Personally though I would just cut the 2 scullers in place of 2 more hymn to tourachs. Hymns are so powerful and everyone seems to underestimate this card, but always getting 2 for 1 is a good deal! I think that having 5 targeted discard and then 4 hymns along with 2 lilianas should be pretty good at keeping opponent's hands to a minimum. I'd like to make a note that if you're relatively new to playing legacy, it's pretty hard to get blind therapies accurately so I would either complete the set of inquisitions, or get thoughtseizes. I think that Sorin is more a SB card than being in the main 60, so I would put him in the SB. With that slot freed up you can replace that with either another vindicate or liliana.

As for your SB, I would definitely replace the duress with another enlightened tutor so that you can fetch for your key enchantments more frequently if you need them. Also since you already have 2 more therapies in the board I think having 8 targeted discard is too much, when you have hymns and lilianas.


In the miracles match up, I would've brought in the oblivion ring for sure because they don't really have an answer to that if it resolves. You can use it to get Jace and ends up being one less to worry about. Post board miracles will generally side out most of their counterspells so bringing in the oring definitely helps. Your board doesn't have too much dedicated to any controlling/grindy match ups so I would suggest putting in another sorin in the board if you can make it fit!

Your boarding for zombardment was 100% correct, taking out the discard is generally what you want to do because most of the time they will get value out of it. I would've taken out the hymns instead of cabals so that I can at least try to blind cabal their stps or bombardment instead of randomly discarding a gravecrawler and bloodghast :( Obviously the etutor will be rip most of the time because that basically neuters the entire deck, but I guess you weren't lucky enough to get either of them. This match up shouldn't be too hard because we have lots of ways to win against them. rip kills them, plagues kill them, active jitte stops them, batterskull makes the game out of reach for them.

The Omnitell match up is very strange because it's either they have it or they don't. Bringing in all the discard seems correct while taking out the obvious dead cards. Liliana is a boss in this match up, she just annihilates the opponent like no other.

That's all I got for now, if you have any questions or discussions lemme know! Hope this feedback helps!

---

I have gotten screwed by having two plains fairly frequently, but I will test some more with one. Picking up and Overgrown Tomb, Sorin, and E Tutor should be do-able before The next Tournament I'm going to. I will switch in the Hymns for Scullers and regarding the therapies, I plan on practicing with them over the next month. I almost cut them because I also was not sure I was ready for them. I will put the 4th Inquisition in if i still don't feel the therapies by the next tournament.

Thanks for the in-depth reply. It helped a ton!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Astrus

Do you think that Hymn to Tourach would be alright temporarily Instead of Sculler?

---

Ye they are fine but Thoughtseize and cabal therapy is in an other league of hymn atm. You want to he specific card not random, not pun inteded.

Lingering souls makes Cabal Therapy so much better then it was before lingering souls was in the deck. And Sorin is more then fine in the deck it has won me many games. The emblems do quite a bit when all our creatures are just 2/1 and 1/2 or 1/1 fliers. :P I do like sorin and hero split. Sorin is easier to cast then hero.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Qweerios

What does Deadguy have over The Rock if it doesn't pack cards that can abuse its stabler manabase? Isn't Hymn better for this deck since it complements Vindicate and Wasteland in the LD package? Seems to me that until you start packing cards that Rock cannot play smoothly, there is no point choosing Deadguy over it. Hymn, Elspeth, Mirran Crusader, Phyrexian Obliterator, and even Mishra's Factory are good examples of such cards.

---

This. Everyone splashing green isn't playing Deadguy. Seriously, how fucking hard is this to figure out.

The advantages of B/w or W/b or even B/W over 3-colors are as follows

- No graveyard reliance allowing you to play the best yard hoser ever printed in Rest in Peace (or others like Relic)
- 2 color mana base means you can run 4+ basics making the deck almost Wasteland proof. It also gives space to run utility lands that can't be run in a 3-color configuration -- at least that can't be run without biting you in the ass during a 9 round tourney
- BB WW ... point two means if you want you can run spells requiring BB and WW and probably get away with it if you ratio properly and carefully fetch. The only other decks that can do this are the decks running 4 brainstorm to cheat potential mulligans into keeps and to see a higher ratio of lands compared to the actual number in the deck
- Hosers. 2 color allows you to run one sided Wrath of God in Perish / Nature's Ruin.

This isn't to say you can't run Deathrite shaman as even if you sharpie over his nug a man ability he's still pretty insane.

You can debate whether the constraints are worth these benefits but how hard do you have to look / research / think to really see the benefits?