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Against Merfolk, it sould be better to unside the DreadReturn plan to enter Grudge + 1 Ichorid for a DDD plan, isn't it ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandalize
That's what I do, and everything goes right for me.
So : -2 Dread Return, -1 FKZ, -1 DrawDude +3 Ancient Grudge +1 Ichorid
What do you think about it ?
It's good, but not for LED list.Quote:
Originally Posted by PH-
Noted and thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Vandalize
Hey guys, I'm new to legacy but Im interested in playing dredge. After reading lots of articles and forums I came up with this nonLED list:
Creatures
1* Cephalid Sage
1* FKZ
4* GGT
3* Golgari Thug
4* Ichorid
4* Narcomoeba
4* PImp
4* Stinkweed Imp
4* Tireless Tribe
Spells
4* Breakthrough
4* Cabal Therapy
2* Careful Study
2* Deep Analysis
3* Dread Return
4* Bridge
Land
4* Cephalid Coliseum
4* City of Brass
4* Gemstone Mine
Sideboard
1* Ancestor's Chosen
1* Eternal Witness
1* Blazing Archon
4* Ancient Grudge
4* Chain of Vapor
3* Firestorm
1* Tormod's Crypt
This is my first try at this, so anyway criticism is welcome. I know it needs work (especially in the sideboard) so just tell me what I should change. Thanks
@nonokonozko
Your list reminded me when I first decided my dredge list : Combining the aspect of LED dredge and port it into non-LED. (Bringing Deep analysis and went down to 12 lands).
The thing is, it doesnt work that way.
LED and non -LED has different purpose and both are meta dependent. LED are for explosiveness where your meta is filled with combo OR aggro decks, while non-LED is a more consistent deck (due to having more lands and more discard outlet) which I believe, you can bring to any meta which doesn't specifically hate dredge.
The only little problem with non-LED is : it is not as fast as LED because you can't go off turn 1 (drop land, play LED, cast breakthrough, crack led in response, and go crazy) .
At best, You usually go off turn 2 with non-LED.
So my advice with your list :
*Cut out the DA and replace them with 2 Careful study
*Cut out 1 ichorid, 1 DR, and 1 sage, replace them with rainbow lands. My list has 15 lands and I'm loving it. Having extra lands in your hand where your meta is filled with wasteland, will save your day.
*the 4th ichorid will stay in your SB and bring it in when u expect control decks.
*you don't need the 3rd Dread return or sage IMO. You might be thinking that you want to dredge the whole library just to get to flame kin, but the way I do it is to bring Iona as a second DR.
A resolved Iona plus an army of zombies is as good as GG against most combo decks.
So, 2 DR, flame kin and Iona is good enough if you are afraid of combo.
*if u insist on playing with the sage, replace him with sphinx of lost truth, he is just plain better than cephalid sage.
*why 1 tormod in your SB? if you want to hate out other grave decks, bring in 4 leylines. 1 tormod in your deck is less likely to come up in your opening hand.
*test your deck with other folks and get a feel how your deck perform and what drawbacks you got wit it. Practice makes perfect.
Thanks sadakiyo that was really helpful
Just curious, but what makes careful study better than burning inquiry in these lists?
You choose what you discard, which is very important when you really want certain specific cards in your graveyard, want to save a draw spell, or need to dig for anti-hate post-board.
Right, I guess I forgot about the random discard part.
...also, Careful Study can be cast with Cephalid Coliseum.
2 question:
I play with LED-Dredge for quite a while now. I play 2 MD Dread Return targets Sun titan/Eternal Witness and Woodfall Primus. Now I find I board out the Woodfall Primus quite often. Normally against blue based aggro-control (Merfolk, Team America.) Is this a normal thing to do, I find it quite bad in those matchups.
But after thinking about it, I never really have used it MD either. Sure it makes some games easier, but most of them where winnable without it.
Now the questions:
1) Should I play Terstadon instead of Woodfall Primus. The first one can cut of my opp. manabase completely, is a little bigger, but doesn't have trample. And it gives 3 tokens I have to beat through. Woodfall Primus is smaller, with trample only destroys 1 permanent. But is an excellent sac-outlet and doesn't give elephants away.
2) Should I just cut that slot all together and play something that could win the game on the spot (Iona) or just add the fourth Golgari Tug ( I now play 4 Troll, 4 SImp, 3 Thug and a Darkblast.)
.Benie.
2 question:
I play with LED-Dredge for quite a while now. I play 2 MD Dread Return targets Sun titan/Eternal Witness and Woodfall Primus. Now I find I board out the Woodfall Primus quite often. Normally against blue based aggro-control (Merfolk, Team America.) Is this a normal thing to do, I find it quite bad in those matchups.
But after thinking about it, I never really have used it MD either. Sure it makes some games easier, but most of them where winnable without it.
Now the questions:
1) Should I play Terstadon instead of Woodfall Primus. The first one can cut of my opp. manabase completely, is a little bigger, but doesn't have trample. And it gives 3 tokens I have to beat through. Woodfall Primus is smaller, with trample only destroys 1 permanent. But is an excellent sac-outlet and doesn't give elephants away.
2) Should I just cut that slot all together and play something that could win the game on the spot (Iona) or just add the fourth Golgari Tug ( I now play 4 Troll, 4 SImp, 3 Thug and a Darkblast.)
.Benie.
I prefer Woodfall Primus over Terastodon, because it has a little synergy with Cabal Therapy. e.g: DR Primus, blow something. Cabal Therapy on Primus, he goes to GY (add zombies), Persist triggers and bring him back for another blowing. Finally, Cabal Therapy resolves and you rip something from your foe's hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benie Bederios
And you didn't add any Elephants to block.
But, if you're playing a LED list, why not a Flame-kin Zealot? He can actually finish games without passing the turn.
Terastodon and Primus are not really of the same kind.
Primus is a card that I would run in the mainboard in a metagame where you will have to play a mid-games and unknown metagames (although i like angel of despair better because it is black [ichorid] and it flies, and it get everything). It is a very good out to random trouble.
Terastodon would always be in my sideboard. It is good against prison-decks, mainly. The upside of the downside of the T. is that you can also generate elephants by targeting your own lands.
Firstly, if you are playing LED dredge then, Sphinx+flame kin=win.
Secondly, I have been a big supporter of Primus in the board for a while now(much better than elephant man). I have been thinking of switching him to something more productive though. The metagame is filled with blue based aggro decks, where he does not shine. He is/was great versus stax/lands/countertop foundry/ monoblue control, decks that have vanished from the metagame lately. So that is where I am at right now with primus.
Michael Morrissey just won StarCityGames Atlanta playing a hybrid Dredge deck. It's kind of a combination between the standard Richard Feldman's list and the Nicholas Rausch's Manaless list. You can look at Morrissey's list righ here @ StarCityGames.com: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=40720
Maindeck:
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Street Wraith
4 Bridge from Below
1 Darkblast
4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
2 Dread Return
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Tarnished Citadel
Sideboard:
1 Ancestor's Chosen
1 Angel of Despair
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Ancient Grudge
4 Nature's Claim
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
This kind of list solves the hate problem that the Nicholas Rausch's Manaless deck had, and because it's everytime on the draw in the 1st turn you will be DDDing allways so the deck will have the resistance to all the blue control based decks and has the draw spells explosion to combat storm. Looking forward to a future report... :)
Congratulations Michael Morrissey and thank you sir for elevating Dredge's potential to a new higher level!
good job for michael morrissey's deck, he can now upgrade his CoB whiteboardered to CoB JSS / Arabian Nights
Woot! I won SCG Atlanta!
peace,
4eak
Grats dude! It'd be great if you could write up a report!Quote:
Originally Posted by 4eak
I was able to get home in time to catch your finals match (annihilation of Merfolk). Congrats man!Quote:
Originally Posted by 4eak
Grats on the finish. I'm actually running a very similar list, putrid imp instead of careful study. I run Wispmare in board to fight misstep. Phantasmagorian has proven to be a house no matter what version of dredge you run (manaless/led/no led), and I don't think a deck could possibly benefit more from street wraith than dredge.
How important was darkblast for you? It seems like the worst card in your 75.