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I would think about a karakas main if I mained 2 cliques. That would be a good excuse to tick vial to 3. Otherwise I'm not sure it's necessary. I used to use it when I only had three tundras and hated it. In most matchups it's a wasteland-able plains.
Congrats to Chris Renner for getting 11th place at the Pittsburgh open!!!
I didn't do so well. I went 1-3 drop beating Loam, but losing to u/w stoneforge, blue zoo, and NO Rug.
My list was pretty standard.
Chris had some interesting choices main, and hopefully will post here to discuss?
Here's the decklist:
Maindeck:
Artifacts
3 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Creatures
4 Mother of Runes
2 Phantasmal Image
3 Serra Avenger
3 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Weathered Wayfarer
Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Mental Misstep
4 Swords to Plowshares
Legendary Artifacts
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Legendary Creatures
2 Vendilion Clique
Basic Snow Lands
1 Snow-Covered Island
3 Snow-Covered Plains
Lands
4 Flooded Strand
3 Marsh Flats
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Jotun Grunt
3 Meddling Mage
2 Disenchant
3 Submerge
The most notable are the maindeck cliques, sprites, images and absence of maindeck grunts, NO seers or FOW, and upping to 19 land.
I think my favorite thing about this deck is that in a way it solves an issue I always had with this deck: it only wants to see one vial. This iteration of the deck doesn't have that problem. You have plenty of creatures that you would love to sneak into play and if you see a second you can just have one at 2 and one at 3 for the cliques. I love including image and spellstutter in the current meta. I might pick up some of the cards I'm missing for this and try it out. Though I'm not completely sold on leaving home without FoW.
I know. I went to test it on MWS last night and decided I would rather stick to 17 just to cram 2 FOW in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by rayaj
In my list I had 2 sprites in the sb and ran a 1/1 split of cliques main/side. Of course when it really mattered I didn't have the UU for the clique, so going up to 19 lands would probably mitigate this.
One thing I really like is 4 wasteland. I'm glad someone showed you can be successful without seers and 17 lands, because if you tried to argue for either a few pages back you'd get yelled at.
I really hope he posts here. That list looks like quite the pile but you can't really argue with results. Too bad you didn't do better but those are the breaks sometimes I guess. NO RUG isn't surprising, it seemed unfavorable when we tested but I'm curious about blue zoo and UW mystic. I still have a hard time believing blue zoo is a real deck and I was under the impression that mystic decks were about even. Bad draws? Did you replace the energy flux with null rod in your board? Also, I think that Chris's sideboard semes like a reasonable example of a non tutor board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Star|Scream
Oh, I punted game 3 against u/w mystic. Completely my fault. I kept a terrible hand with 1 land.
And I ran into a topdecked tower of the magistrate against blue zoo and couldn't hit a wasteland.
So I tested the SCG list for a few hours on MWS last night.
Some thoughts:
The deck feels smoother. I didn't have to worry about land as much if I didn't have an active wayfarer as I would have otherwise.
Missing FOW: This is a double-edged sword. The card advantage lost by not having seers is sort of mitigated by not hymn'ing yourself to stop a spell. Perhaps I was too free with my FOW in the past, but I was actually finding myself with more cards in hand since I couldn't 2-1 anyway. I have to be creative and come up with other ways to deal with my opponents. In some ways it makes the deck more challenging.
Affinity is not a good matchup now :( They are quite capable of playing around both misstep and daze, so if they can drop an etherium and/or a cranial plating, all we really have are 2 disenchants to deal with that. Image can copy another colorless creature to chump block though.
Speaking of image: I like you! eot (vial) copy my opponent's 14/14 terravore? Thanks! I must try to remember I can't equip him though!
The sprites suck until they don't. You either keep open your lands to develop or you drop a 1/1 flier for 2. I guess it's not any worse than holding grunt until he can survive a few turns.
Clique is great.
Did I miss fathom seer? On one hand yes, but I'm sure you've all also been behind, casted a seer, and immediately gush'd to find TUNDRA, TUNDRA. ugh. The deck lacks real card advantage outside of wayfarer thinning (which works a lot better with 4 daze. You dont' have to cripple your mana base like you would with a seer.) but is more disruptive.
I'll keep testing.
I miss my energy flux e tutor sb tho :(
How has everyone been faring with this deck lately? I feel that it can still be pretty good, at least with a skilled enough pilot, though I have some points regarding the goodies we got in New Phyrexia:
* Batterskull. Of course, in a deck with Stoneforge Mystic, this can be a beast and it can win games on its own. However, I used to run two SFM and two Jittes back in the day, and regarded Mystics more or less as virtual copies of Jitte, which could also carry said equipment. The problem is that the excess SFM & Jitte after you drop the first one is essentially only a Squire and a back-up copy of the Jitte (i.e. near-dead draws). With Batterskull as another excellent equipment to grab, I found that SFM also became more important to my game-plan in some aspects, since many games can be finished by just dropping an uncounterable 4/4 Lifelink Vigilance Germ. Also, any extra copies of SFM can be used to find the Jitte I still have in the deck, so I swapped out some cards and ended up with 3 SFM, 1 Jitte, 1 Batterskull.
* Mental Misstep. I cut the Spell Pierces (duh) and a Mom to fit in three Missteps, and I haven't really missed the fourth Mom because Misstep is extra protection from Swords to Plowshares, Bolt etc. I wish I could fit a fourth Misstep in there.
My list in its entirety:
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
4 Tundra
1 Island
2 Plains
4 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Mother of Runes
4 Serra Avenger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Jötun Grunt
4 Fathom Seer
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Mental Misstep
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
Evidently, it's pretty close to the classic list, and if I was to go to a tournament today, this list is probably the one I'd bring. I've seen some people cut down on Fathom Seers, but I haven't arrived there yet personally, I think it is somewhat of the heart of the deck (along with Wayfarers, of course), and it gives the deck a stronger late-game plan. Also, the times confused opponents have swordsed what they thought was an Exalted Angel only to find a little 1/3 instead makes me chuckle.
I'm not sure if I'd recommend the deck to anyone right now, but I think it's still a blast to play, with some very close and fun games. The only problem with bringing it to a tournament is that you have an exhausting day in front of you ;)
Snapcaster Mage seems like it has potential to be good in this shell. It has a great set of targets in Brainstorm, Swords to Plowshares, Mental Misstep and sb options of Spell Pierces and additional removal. I'm not decided on where best to make cuts for room, but am looking forward to trying him in this deck.
I don't know about you guys, but Innistrad seems to have a lot of very fun toys to try out.
1. As Cairo mentioned, Snapcaster Mage: Very much fits the theme of UWtempo's Utility Creature concept, plus it pitches to FOW.
2. Skaab Ruinator: I remember someone mentioning that this deck could use a serious beater. This is a 5/6 flying, BLUE creature for 3. Vialing it in is fine, but the additional cost of having to exile 3 creatures from your own graveyard when you have to play it from the hand does worry me.
3. Geist of Saint Traft: 3 mana for a 2/2 hexproof creature that generates a temporary 4/4 flying beater every time it swings. With jitte or Mother or runes to get past blockers, this guy can finish games very quickly.
Any thoughts?
Wouldn't Invisible Stalker be better than Geist of Saint Traft? It costs 1 less, it is both hexproof and unblockable, making it a much better holder for your equipment and to beat the crap out of Jace (unless the opponent wipes the board or edicts him).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom
It doesn't do anything, though, except be hard to kill. Not so great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastian
P.S. Misstep is banned and it looks like this deck may get reset?
I literally had to check the website myself after reading your post. Never thought it'd get the axe this fast. Back to topic though, what do you mean by reset starscream?
Well, with misstep this deck was able to drop FOW and still be competitive (see SCG PGH top 16).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom
Sprites and cliques were added to deal with NO RUG and hive mind.
Snapcaster mage is coming, and I think he has a place in this deck.
Do we go back to fathom seers, spell pierce, and vexxing sphinx? Or do we keep to a wizard subtheme and add a single riptide lab for wayfarer to fetch?
Also stifle is probably a card again, and the vial count should be tweaked. I was running a single manriki in the sb against stoneblade decks. will they still exist?
I'm thinking about picking up UW Tempo again, as I need a diversion from my other long-term favourite lists. Has anyone tried some of the Innistrad goodies in practise yet?
I ran a few practice games on Cockatrice with a list near the OP's, and I'm having a great time with it. It may become a permanent deck of mine. So I will test some stuff out.Quote:
Originally Posted by colo
I believe Chris Renner dropped the Enlightened Tutors because of their susceptibility to the now banned Mental Misstep, and so dropped the Tutor Board and made some cards choices taking into account the pre-banning metagame.
For instance, he tried to stay away from too many 1-drops, put Vendilion Clique in and added some lands in order to support his higher curve and be less vulnerable to opposing Missteps. He didn't need Force of Will because he was 2-for-1ing the same spells Misstep was countering 1-for-1, and he also didn't need Fathom Seers because he wasn't depleting his hand as badly as if he were playing FoW.
Now that Misstep is no more, I think that Chris' decklist isn't that good of a starting point. As I mentioned earlier, running 1-drops is safer now, so people who likes the Tutor Board, rejoice. Anyway, I tested some Spellstutter Sprites instead of the Jotun Grunts, and I do like this change - more blue to FoW, evasive body, CMC = 2...
Maybe Snapcaster Mage would be a better card in those slots, but then maybe I'll need Mental Note and some better counterspells (Flashbacking Daze or Force of Will don't look that good). Unfortunately, Mental Noting an Equipment would weaken the Mystic, so I will stick to Spellstutter for now.
I believe Chris Renner dropped the Enlightened Tutors because of their susceptibility to the now banned Mental Misstep, and so dropped the Tutor Board and made some cards choices taking into account the pre-banning metagame.
For instance, he tried to stay away from too many 1-drops, put Vendilion Clique in and added some lands in order to support his higher curve and be less vulnerable to opposing Missteps. He didn't need Force of Will because he was 2-for-1ing the same spells Misstep was countering 1-for-1, and he also didn't need Fathom Seers because he wasn't depleting his hand as badly as if he were playing FoW.
Now that Misstep is no more, I think that Chris' decklist isn't that good of a starting point. As I mentioned earlier, running 1-drops is safer now, so people who likes the Tutor Board, rejoice. Anyway, I tested some Spellstutter Sprites instead of the Jotun Grunts, and I do like this change - more blue to FoW, evasive body, CMC = 2...
Maybe Snapcaster Mage would be a better card in those slots, but then maybe I'll need Mental Note and some better counterspells (Flashbacking Daze or Force of Will don't look that good). Unfortunately, Mental Noting an Equipment would weaken the Mystic, so I will stick to Spellstutter for now.
@GeoSantista
I agree that the move away from Enlightened Tutor was a result of Mental Misstep and that it's totally viable to use it again.
When Snapcaster initially leaked I was really interested about getting it into a UW Tempo list alongside Mental Misstep. Having a 0cc option put him online a turn earlier and synergized well with the idea of not overextending on lands. In the current format he's 3cc (for Swords/Brainstorm) and while that's still powerful, I don't think it lends itself as well to this deck as it does to Stoneblade and more control based strategies rather than tempo based ones.
Honestly if working on an update for this deck about the last card I want to be replacing (or conflicting with) is Jotun Grunt. He's such a house right now with Snapcaster, Knight of the Reliquary, Dredge/Reanimator and a decent amount of Tribal running around. I'd probably start pretty close to Forbiddian's OP list. There's always those few flex slots that maybe something from the newer sets could occupy.
I still think Sword of Fire and Ice and Sword of Body and Mind are in contention for some SB (if not MB) space, with Delver and Snapcaster now in addition to the ever-present Folk and Jace, Pro-Blue is looking better and better and they each offer great ways to pull ahead of small or large agro respectively. I think Meddling Mage is pretty strong right now as SB combo/card advantage hate, there aren't that many Turn 1 decks right now. Mage can always come in as a 2/2 that chants against a form of your opponent's CA (Dark Confidant, JaceTMS, LftL).
I haven't sleeved this up since Mental Misstep was banned, but I don't think it's positioned poorly.
I agree with everything above with a couple of additions.
I think daze and wasteland should be a 4-of right now. They compliment each other so well, and (I feel) the deck flows better with 18 land. Fathom seer takes 2 turns to reload after you play it, so I don't mind cutting 1 to add the daze.
I put in 2 spell pierce, sometimes 3. No vexing sphinxes.