@anaki
Si, i meant Enlightened Tutor. Sorry for the typo
Doing nightshift and reply to some posts is not very healthy :).
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@anaki
Si, i meant Enlightened Tutor. Sorry for the typo
Doing nightshift and reply to some posts is not very healthy :).
What is everyone's strategy vs. Maverick? It seems very hard to stop all their threats from staying on board and they can put out a decent clock thanks to acceleration GSZ and / or Noble Hierarch provide them.
Game 1 you'll simply have to try to out-removal them... Which isn't easy, if you have Pulses maindeck it will help, same with Vindicates of course. Use tricks like Ooze and MD Bojuka Bog to win Knight-wars. If you're in SFM Batterskull surely helps. If you're in GSZ MD Qasali helps.
Basically they have your build but alot faster and stronger. Game 2 and 3 _should_ be "easy" wins (a k a slightly favorable) with the amount of sweepers and point removal you'll bring in.
I doubt Maverick will survive the temposwitch coming up in legacy, but we'll see...
Yeah Maverick is a similar plan to most creature-heavy decks that grind out the midgame with fatties: Remove Mox Diamonds for Pernicious Deeds and try and race them with card advantage and maybe a small dose of tempo to keep ahead of their threats. Outplaying them with Knight and Scavenging Ooze triggers (i.e. being a turn ahead of them) can help you come out on top. Also, my sideboard sports a single Darkblast and a single Gerrard's Verdict, which both could come in depending on the build they are running. Hitting their Green Sun's and reducing their handsize definitely helps, as does popping off their Nobles and Mothers and other x/1's. Phyrexian Metamorph is also available to some of us as a way of increasing our threat density, though the 2 life maybe rather relevant in this match.
Yesterday I took down a Stoneblade deck with Crucible of Worlds with massive land destruction. 3 Sinkhole 1 Vindicate 3 Wasteland, a KotR and a Goyf pierced through CoW and he never got to activate his SFM to lay that Batterskull he tutored. I played Rock with Mox and Dark Ritual and I have got to say that BoP is pretty underrated. My T2 are always devastating with a T1 Birds and Sinkhole really is valuable with Vindicate, Wasteland, KotR, and Hymn. Land destruction also makes discard so much more powerful.
You run Mox, Dark Ritual, Mana Birds, and Sinkhole/Vindicate all in the same deck? Very interesting indeed... may I ask what the whole decklist looks like?
I won't lie though, I've considered picking up a few Sinkholes at some point to support a truly heavy mana-denial theme, but I think at that point I'd be Mono Black Pox splashing white perhaps... not so much a true Rock deck. Still, when the surprise factor is there, Sinkhole can win games.
I don't play all three in the same deck, I have played every version at some point in time. I posted my list a couple of pages back as a meta choice against NO decks. Here is the Rock list I have been playing since the banning of MM was anounced:
Creatures (16)
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
Spells (19)
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Vindicate
Artifacts (3)
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands (22)
4 Wasteland
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
Sideboard (15)
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Duress
2 Gerrard's Verdict
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Extirpate
3 Krosan Grip
I just recently made the switch from Engineered Plague to Pernicious Deed and Sylvan Library to Sensei's Divining Top. I completely cut Qasali Pridemage in favor of Krosan Grip because the artifacts I need to remove are best answered at split second speed, Pridemage simply doesn't handle Counterbalance, Top, Batterskull, or any artifact/enchantments backed by counterspells for that matter.
This deck looks really good. How do you deal with combo?Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
9 Pieces of Discard and Extirpate. Other than that, GSZ version can run Teeg.
-Matt
You don't ever find that 9 pieces of discard to not be enough against a combo deck?Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
It's certainly better than nothing. I'm not going to run 15 pieces since that's just ludicrous. The whole plan is, disruption + clock can hopefully get me there before they can go off.
-Matt
Sounds like Eva Green to me...Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
And that's why we're in this thread, and Eva Green isn't.
-Matt
guys i have been wondering if anyone tried liliana of the veil, in the team america thread there is a lot of talk about her, and a few people have even replaced jace with her, and in other black-deck she gets a lot of attention as well, as she seems to help a lot against combo and controll with her +1 ability
i could see her fit in well in a shell with moxen and maybe 2 loams, so we can constantly break symmetry without a drawback from her +1 ability
her -2 ability is quite nice too, alltough not really good against swarming decks, but against midrange decks with a low to moderate threat-count it would be quite awesome by gaining the upper hand on the field and than having it quite easy to protect her for a few turns until the next threat of the opponent is ready to die
only thing i think will rarely see play is her ultimate, since with the other ones we should be able to win the game by then
i have no testings with her, as i do not jet posses any copies of this ridiculously beautiful card, so till now this is just a bit of brainstorming
so what do you guys think?
Qweerios, nice list. Seems pretty evilly hellbent on the LD theme, which I like, and it's also quite streamlined. Playing with 4 Manabirds instead of any Mox Diamonds seems like a reasonable way to get ahead, especially with 4x Sinkholes ready to go on turn 2 most of the time. I like Mox Diamond since they are hard to remove, but not having to lose a card in your opener does have obvious benefits. I'd probably run 4x Thoughseize and 3x Sinkhole as a minor change, considering Combo is bound to return in the coming weeks, but otherwise I like the theme. If I can get my hands on some cheapo Sinkholes I'll give it a shot.
Avatar/Avatra: what exactly are you guys getting at here? 9 Discard spells with some Extirpates in the SB seems pretty damn strong against combo. More than that and yeah, it's really just ridiculous and terrible in many other matchups. There are other ways to fight combo, and those can be addressed in the board if need be, but I'm pretty sure we have decent game against them already. Eva Green and Junk are similar decks so....... point?
AggroSteve, I definitely think Liliana is worth giving a shot in Junk, and no doubt we will see her in the near future in successful Legacy builds. I think the strongest place to put her might be into a Buried Alive theme, or possibly a Pox list splashing a color or two, but I will be interested to see if anyone can generate a Top 8 finish with her running a relatively classic Junk-style deck. I'll be searching out my playset either way as soon as is financially viable. The artwork only makes collecting the playset of her even more rewarding....
And we are back on the map again folks! Thirteenth place with 4x Stoneforge Mystic backed by Batterskull and Jitte, in a field full of Combo decks!
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=41101
I like it, but 25 lands without mox diamond?Quote:
Originally Posted by Borealis
Durdling around with Stoneforge and equipments is really mana intensive, and Mox Diamond doesn't give you more mana, it just accelerates your landdrops for the price of one card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow
I think it is indeed possible to make The Rock without moxes, it will give you less nut draws, but also increase the consistancy of the deck(fewer dead topdecks, more business spells).
Anyway, I am not really convinced that Stoneforge Mystic is the way with this kind of meta: Combo and Reanimator. Maindeck Ooze and Teeg with Zenith and 5-6 onedrop discard+4 hymn.
I agree with muscleb here... I just don't see how Batterskull is more effective than Ooze/Teeg/Pridemage main, in a meta like this (Reanimator was the most played archetype, unless you pack ANT and TES as the same - then they were played about as much as Reanimator).
I like the idea of playing 2 extra TS's in IOK or Duress - I'll have a problem cutting shit though...
I helped Fisher design this deck, and I'll give you guys a brief rundown on the manabase. Both he and I hate Mox Diamond in these decks, where you really just want all of your spells to provide maximum value, because you're not doing anything unfair in Legacy to begin with, unlike High Tide, Show and Tell, Reanimator, Ad Nauseam, etc. If you're going to play a fair deck you need to make every spell count, and Mox Diamond is the absolute worst topdeck in these style decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow
The problem with the typical reaction from a tournament won by Reanimator is that "the whole metagame is Reanimator and Ad Nauseam." It's not. Legacy is super diverse, and "durdling around with" Stoneforge helps crush all of the aggro decks that you'd otherwise have sketchy game against. Again, the thinking is get maximum value out of each card you play.Quote:
Originally Posted by muscleb
Fisher went 3-0 vs Reanimator at the SCG, 1-0 vs Chris VanMeter with Hive Mind, 1-0 vs Doomsday, 0-1 vs the TES player who made top 8 (after mulling to 5 in both games I believe), and his only other loss was to Elves combo that made Top 16 I believe. I can't remember what his other two wins were against.
There's a couple of slots that should be changed around with Reanimator in mind, but that's what evolution of the deck is for each week depending on what you think you're going to face. Just remember, when in doubt, play good cards and not Mox Diamond.